Mercurial > repo
changeset 198:dce34bbebc5c
<oerjan> revert 193
| author | HackBot |
|---|---|
| date | Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:03:26 +0000 |
| parents | 731c3a01b9da |
| children | 9d1a3249dda2 |
| files | UNDELETE.EXE canary hackegoloop hackenv lbl paste/paste.1028 paste/paste.14829 paste/paste.16022 paste/paste.18411 paste/paste.20377 paste/paste.23607 paste/paste.23986 paste/paste.31451 paste/paste.8939 paste/paste.968 quotes test vpenis.sh wisdom/elliott wisdom/europe wisdom/feather wisdom/hexham wisdom/itidus20 wisdom/logo wisdom/monqy wisdom/xy problem wisdom/¯\(°_o)/¯ |
| diffstat | 26 files changed, 3450 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) [+] |
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--- a/canary Sun Apr 08 01:51:18 2012 +0000 +++ b/canary Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +chirp
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/hackegoloop Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +`cat hackegoloop
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/hackenv Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +/hackenv \ No newline at end of file
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/lbl Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +fortune; echo hel
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.1028 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.14829 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ +2009-11-14.txt:16:23:45: <AnMaster> ais523, see http://sprunge.us/TDPZ +2009-11-14.txt:16:25:32: <AnMaster> ais523, the point of it is that the way to add a paste is: cat ick-mpw-issues.txt | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us +2009-11-14.txt:16:32:45: <AnMaster> ais523, http://sprunge.us/UIaA +2009-11-14.txt:16:54:30: <AnMaster> ais523, stdout: http://sprunge.us/WNGO +2009-11-14.txt:16:54:43: <AnMaster> ais523, stderr: http://sprunge.us/NDVB +2009-11-14.txt:17:12:13: <AnMaster> ais523, http://sprunge.us/JVAa +2009-11-16.txt:13:03:31: <AnMaster> ais523, the list of warnings at the end of http://sprunge.us/SCcB might be interesting (from most recent full build, I prefer incremental, because that way the damn emulator doesn't crash, I have to do full builds on a real mac) +2009-11-16.txt:15:13:32: <AnMaster> ais523, see http://sprunge.us/XCQY (note: probably CR line endings) +2009-11-16.txt:15:16:53: <AnMaster> ais523, here is the diff http://sprunge.us/QHgb?diff +2009-11-16.txt:17:07:19: <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ais523, see http://sprunge.us/XCQY (note: probably CR line endings) +2009-11-16.txt:17:07:22: <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ais523, here is the diff http://sprunge.us/QHgb?diff +2009-11-16.txt:19:33:03: <AnMaster> ais523, atm this diff "works for me" in uncommon.c http://sprunge.us/YSeQ Until you have a patch for proper doing this in config.h that is what I use +2009-11-16.txt:19:35:04: <AnMaster> ais523, which is currently this: http://sprunge.us/WGSL +2009-12-17.txt:19:15:30: <AnMaster> ais523, how would one add http://sprunge.us/bFYU?bash to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bipoint +2010-01-10.txt:22:54:22: <ehird> ais523: http://sprunge.us/LRfW +2010-04-22.txt:15:48:09: <AnMaster> ais523, http://sprunge.us/IhiB +2010-11-10.txt:20:48:06: <elliott> ais523: can't you just uuencode a tarball to sprunge.us? :) +2010-11-28.txt:20:06:14: <elliott> ais523: It's a rather embarrassing mistake, but understandable for a program of 1970 vintage: http://sprunge.us/hhjR (this is a unified diff) +2010-11-28.txt:20:08:49: <elliott> ais523: see http://sprunge.us/hhjR for the fix to the bug this caused in pcc +2010-12-06.txt:20:25:16: <elliott> ais523: wow, look at the whitespace pattern I get when word-wrapping the table: http://sprunge.us/bENR +2010-12-13.txt:20:55:56: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/hShh +2010-12-15.txt:16:55:40: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/gZDO the guards are basically a half-assed excuse for not writing a proper validation function, and the do notation is unnecessary, but it's surprisingly simple +2011-01-17.txt:18:51:18: <ais523> hmm, I put it at http://sprunge.us/QiQO?perl +2011-01-18.txt:14:49:17: <elliott> ais523: here's a (slightly old but essentially the same) version of the http server code to demonstrate just how ugly it is: http://sprunge.us/KHVi +2011-02-07.txt:18:52:47: <elliott> ais523: sprunge.us +2011-02-07.txt:18:53:05: <Vorpal> ais523, sprunge.us, add ?scheme to end of url iirc +2011-02-07.txt:18:53:32: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/NQXK?scheme +2011-02-08.txt:14:16:28: <ais523> !bfjoust defend10 http://sprunge.us/ZXiO +2011-02-08.txt:14:19:20: <ais523> !bfjoust defend10 http://sprunge.us/EZYj +2011-02-08.txt:14:21:47: <ais523> !bfjoust defend10 http://sprunge.us/MWQf +2011-02-08.txt:14:28:36: <ais523> !bfjoust defend10 http://sprunge.us/EIJX +2011-02-08.txt:14:35:20: <ais523> !bfjoust defend10 http://sprunge.us/CWIN +2011-02-08.txt:19:53:37: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9 http://sprunge.us/TjjN +2011-02-08.txt:22:59:06: <ais523> !bfjoust defend11 http://sprunge.us/gdOE +2011-02-08.txt:23:09:19: <ais523> !bfjoust defend11 http://sprunge.us/CBFF +2011-02-08.txt:23:16:24: <ais523> !bfjoust defend11 http://sprunge.us/aTNI +2011-02-08.txt:23:17:16: <ais523> !bfjoust defend11 http://sprunge.us/WXfE +2011-02-09.txt:14:20:39: <ais523> !bfjoust defend12 http://sprunge.us/ibGT +2011-02-09.txt:14:20:41: <ais523> !bfjoust defend13 http://sprunge.us/jQfB +2011-02-09.txt:16:05:06: <elliott> !bfjoust all_credit_to_ais523_defend13_tweaked_tinily http://sprunge.us/eRdS +2011-02-09.txt:20:02:54: <ais523> !bfjoust defend14 http://sprunge.us/DUYc +2011-02-13.txt:19:14:45: <ais523> !bfjoust definder http://sprunge.us/LdAT +2011-02-13.txt:19:14:48: <ais523> !bfjoust definder2 http://sprunge.us/IBDL +2011-02-13.txt:20:28:39: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/FjRH Looks like a draw to me! +2011-02-15.txt:18:21:01: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.5 http://sprunge.us/VQDW +2011-02-15.txt:18:55:42: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/BMhZ +2011-02-15.txt:18:58:57: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/KeYI +2011-02-15.txt:19:03:53: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/badj +2011-02-15.txt:19:05:14: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/badj +2011-02-15.txt:19:27:04: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/EjhJ +2011-02-15.txt:19:28:41: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/NKhG +2011-02-15.txt:19:30:04: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/NKhG +2011-02-15.txt:19:31:34: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/ILYM +2011-02-15.txt:19:34:59: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/ILYM +2011-02-15.txt:19:45:05: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/OdLA +2011-02-15.txt:19:59:58: <ais523> !bfjoust 9.75 http://sprunge.us/bdUL +2011-02-16.txt:21:25:43: <elliott> ais523_: hmm, I should put up an html form pointed at sprunge.us somewhere +2011-02-16.txt:21:28:03: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/cJII +2011-02-18.txt:15:08:05: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/VTYQ +2011-02-18.txt:18:51:11: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/RGTh <--- new version of esolangs.el, with BF Joust support +2011-02-20.txt:00:27:25: <ais523> anyway: http://sprunge.us/KEEC?thutu +2011-02-26.txt:18:28:35: <elliott> ais523: here's the code if you want to take a peek: http://sprunge.us/YGiM +2011-02-26.txt:18:32:24: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/fLWW +2011-03-03.txt:16:42:09: <ais523> here we go: http://sprunge.us/APhW +2011-03-04.txt:20:59:10: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall3 http://sprunge.us/iIZL +2011-03-04.txt:21:12:02: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall2 http://sprunge.us/WMEa +2011-03-04.txt:22:25:00: <ais523> !bfjoust triplock2 http://sprunge.us/DcXF +2011-03-06.txt:16:37:16: <ais523> so I wrote this: http://sprunge.us/JRMI +2011-03-06.txt:17:48:40: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall3 http://sprunge.us/IaPS +2011-03-06.txt:18:56:14: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall3 http://sprunge.us/hHGW +2011-03-06.txt:19:43:12: <elliott_> ais523: here's a fun segfault for you: http://sprunge.us/CgJK +2011-03-06.txt:20:28:20: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall2 http://sprunge.us/dSER +2011-03-07.txt:11:54:22: <ais523> !bfjoust defend9.75 http://sprunge.us/JKFa +2011-03-08.txt:14:33:34: <ais523> !bfjoust waterfall3 http://sprunge.us/QVGQ +2011-03-09.txt:13:50:49: <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD +2011-03-11.txt:20:02:00: <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD +2011-03-11.txt:20:09:48: <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD +2011-03-13.txt:17:42:55: <elliott> coppro: olsner: anyone who has ever coded C++ ever: ais523: http://sprunge.us/fhXB +2011-03-31.txt:12:59:50: <Vorpal> ais523_, http://sprunge.us/cYgL +2011-03-31.txt:16:08:43: <ais523_> !bfjoust consistency http://sprunge.us/JJcX. +2011-03-31.txt:16:08:51: <ais523_> !bfjoust consistency http://sprunge.us/JJcX +2011-03-31.txt:16:11:23: <ais523_> !bfjoust http://sprunge.us/ghaP +2011-03-31.txt:16:11:30: <ais523_> !bfjoust consistency http://sprunge.us/ghaP +2011-03-31.txt:16:22:15: <ais523_> woah: http://sprunge.us/gZaC +2011-03-31.txt:16:33:19: <ais523_> elliott (in case you missed it): <ais523_> whoa: http://sprunge.us/gZaC <ais523_> I think it's successfully locking slowpoke, at least on some tape lengths +2011-04-04.txt:17:30:04: <ais523> !bfjoust anticipation http://sprunge.us/CNiW +2011-04-22.txt:16:22:40: <Gregor> ais523: http://sprunge.us/LSPX +2011-05-13.txt:19:21:50: <Vorpal> elliott, ais523 take m4_case then: http://sprunge.us/ddHj +2011-05-17.txt:19:41:25: <ais523> CakeProphet: http://sprunge.us/AQhd is esolangs.el (usable but still unfinished) +2011-06-21.txt:13:10:24: <elliott_> Deewiant: ais523_: If you're curious, this is the code: http://sprunge.us/FMMF +2011-08-11.txt:05:33:56: <elliott> ais523: monqy: http://sprunge.us/iRVi is this nice... is this worth having directionless blips for and thus losing symmetry +2011-08-23.txt:02:28:12: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/gHUN +2011-09-01.txt:02:07:23: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/hMUA?cpp seems to be singlespaced +2011-09-03.txt:12:26:34: <ais523> here we go: http://sprunge.us/fALT +2011-09-10.txt:17:36:40: <elliott_> ais523: http://sprunge.us/Kgae; get excited (note: this will not excite you at all but is the culmination of about two days focused effort and counting so far) +2011-09-10.txt:18:08:55: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/TPWh?scheme +2011-09-12.txt:05:19:38: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/TICU?c +2011-09-12.txt:05:33:57: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/iidQ?c (better?) +2011-09-20.txt:19:07:59: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/hiac +2011-09-20.txt:19:30:51: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/LPMW +2011-09-20.txt:19:32:05: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/aEhU +2011-09-20.txt:19:38:25: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/DGBd now with eval! +2011-09-20.txt:19:40:45: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/ENSb +2011-09-20.txt:19:43:36: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/SYUJ updated version, with super-compact eval at the end +2011-09-20.txt:20:15:06: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/PXPS final revision... hopefully :) +2011-10-26.txt:21:38:38: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/XHdI +2011-10-28.txt:19:20:30: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/DcHH +2011-11-03.txt:19:55:22: <elliott> ais523\unfoog: wget http://sprunge.us/FfMA -O nondet.c; gcc nondet.c +2011-11-03.txt:20:27:04: <ais523\unfoog> http://sprunge.us/XJKU +2011-11-03.txt:22:13:07: <Vorpal> ais523\unfoog, http://sprunge.us/SBHU +2011-11-03.txt:22:42:22: <Vorpal> ais523\unfoog, this code is quite pretty btw: http://sprunge.us/cHgf (from the vdso) +2011-11-04.txt:19:37:13: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/KKPf +2011-11-14.txt:19:05:33: <Gregor> ais523: Give us a nice `du -bx * | sort -n | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us` when it's extracted kthx? +2011-11-14.txt:22:21:09: <elliott> ais523: Here's my sg code scraps, FWIW: http://sprunge.us/NebW +2011-11-16.txt:19:38:54: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/AXOB +2011-12-10.txt:21:44:38: <ais523> here we go; the language it's based on is called CUBE: http://sprunge.us/PLHJ +2011-12-24.txt:20:44:28: <elliott_> ais523: here's the remaining TODOs and FIXMEs in mcmap, FWIW: http://sprunge.us/dDRY +2012-02-16.txt:17:17:18: <ais523> Ngevd: http://sprunge.us/LKKD +2012-02-24.txt:12:11:47: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/BLIW +2012-02-24.txt:17:50:01: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/aFRG +2012-02-24.txt:17:54:39: <ais523> wow, this type is beautiful, if ultimately not what I wanted: http://sprunge.us/HGXN +2012-02-27.txt:23:18:55: <elliott> ais523: like this: http://sprunge.us/eeWX +2012-02-29.txt:21:30:13: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/iQMG +2012-02-29.txt:21:45:04: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/diPZ +2012-02-29.txt:22:05:18: <ais523> OK, here we go: http://sprunge.us/MdUD +2012-03-25.txt:22:30:15: <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/hIAd +2012-04-02.txt:17:32:45: <ais523> http://sprunge.us/AaHT
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.16022 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +2011-11-03.txt:19:57:23: <ais523\unfoog> Vorpal: weboflies +2011-11-03.txt:20:05:45: <Vorpal> ais523\unfoog, how much of a FPS drop do you get from weboflies typically with opengl stuff? +2011-11-03.txt:20:06:16: <ais523\unfoog> the joyous thing is, that weboflies only has a performance penalty on syscalls +2011-11-03.txt:20:25:25: <ais523\unfoog> gcc -o weboflies -O2 -g --std=gnu99 -Wall -Wextra -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-missing-braces weboflies.c ktt.c -lrt -lpng +2011-11-03.txt:20:26:40: <ais523\unfoog> weboflies has a command line +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1910:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ebx’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1913:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ebx’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1928:21: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘ecx’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1931:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1932:44: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:56: <elliott> weboflies.c:1934:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:28:58: <elliott> weboflies.c:1940:22: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:29:00: <elliott> weboflies.c:1944:70: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:29:02: <elliott> weboflies.c:1950:20: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘esi’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:29:04: <elliott> weboflies.c:1978:16: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:29:06: <elliott> weboflies.c:2002:20: error: ‘struct user_regs_struct’ has no member named ‘orig_eax’ +2011-11-03.txt:20:32:40: <ais523\unfoog> this is how weboflies has genuinely caused filesystem leaks in the past +2011-11-03.txt:20:33:48: <ais523\unfoog> but weboflies' processes are often quite hard to get rid of +2011-11-03.txt:20:56:55: <ais523\unfoog> the weboflies core, which I'm writing at the moment, would need to be connected to some sort of interface to actually read it +2011-11-03.txt:22:03:49: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ find . +2011-11-03.txt:22:03:49: <elliott> ./weboflies.c +2011-11-03.txt:22:04:09: <Vorpal> ./weboflies.c +2011-11-03.txt:22:04:10: <Vorpal> ./weboflies +2011-11-03.txt:22:30:15: <elliott> [elliott@dinky ~]$ ldd ~/Code/weboflies/build.sh +2011-11-03.txt:22:30:39: <elliott> [elliott@dinky ~]$ ldd ~/Code/weboflies/build.sh +2011-11-03.txt:22:30:39: <elliott> ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/home/elliott/Code/weboflies/build.sh' +2011-11-04.txt:03:55:25: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies ls +2011-11-04.txt:03:55:25: <elliott> = WARNING: mount("/home/ais523/weboflies/nethack/nethack", "/tmp/var/games/nethack", 0, MS_BIND, 0): No such file or directory +2011-11-04.txt:03:57:54: <elliott> ewarn(mount("/home/ais523/weboflies/nethack/nethack", "/tmp/var/games/nethack", 0, MS_BIND, 0)); +2011-11-04.txt:03:59:10: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies ls +2011-11-04.txt:09:48:01: <elliott> note: it was "sudo ./weboflies true"; true is 64-bit, but I tried it on Web of Lies itself and it still failed, so I suspect it's a generic problem +2011-11-04.txt:09:48:13: <elliott> weboflies isn't suid :) +2011-11-04.txt:09:57:39: <elliott> ais523: I could run weboflies under gd... what am I saying, of course I can't +2011-11-04.txt:09:58:18: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo gdb ./weboflies +2011-11-04.txt:10:02:29: <elliott_> i killed the gdb'd weboflies +2011-11-04.txt:10:03:25: <ais523> this is weboflies! +2011-11-04.txt:10:03:51: <ais523> (note that a kill -9 on weboflies itself is nearly always a bad idea) +2011-11-04.txt:10:05:30: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ sudo ./weboflies true +2011-11-04.txt:10:05:34: <elliott_> 781 pts/0 00:00:00 weboflies +2011-11-04.txt:10:05:34: <elliott_> 782 pts/1 00:00:00 weboflies +2011-11-04.txt:10:05:35: <elliott_> 783 pts/1 00:00:00 weboflies +2011-11-04.txt:10:05:46: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -l /proc | grep 783 +2011-11-04.txt:10:06:04: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -l /proc/783/fd +2011-11-04.txt:10:06:09: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/783/fd +2011-11-04.txt:10:07:35: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/781{,/fd} +2011-11-04.txt:10:07:35: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/782{,/fd} +2011-11-04.txt:10:08:19: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls /proc/self/fd +2011-11-04.txt:10:08:27: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ld /proc/self{,/fd} +2011-11-04.txt:10:08:50: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -ldH /proc/self{,/fd} +2011-11-04.txt:10:12:55: <elliott_> I was thinking weboflies could chown its /proc/blah/fd before dropping perms :) +2011-11-04.txt:10:17:06: <elliott_> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ /bin/true --help +2011-11-04.txt:10:18:58: <elliott_> ais523: any ideas wrt weboflies? +2011-11-04.txt:19:34:17: <ais523> (that's for the syscall getdents; you're not supposed to use it directly, rather using a wrapper, but you can do a few things with it that you can't via the wrapper, such as listing amazingly large directories, and ofc weboflies is at the receiving end of syscalls so it has to understand getdents, not the libc equivalents) +2011-11-04.txt:19:38:11: <elliott_> gcc -o weboflies -m32 -O2 -g --std=gnu99 -Wall -Wextra -Wno-missing-field-initializers -Wno-missing-braces weboflies.c ktt.c -lrt -lpng +2011-11-04.txt:19:48:37: <ais523> I think it's only just new enough to run weboflies, which requires something along the lines of 2.6.30 +2011-11-04.txt:19:54:41: <ais523> actually, I think weboflies does connect to a pty +2011-11-05.txt:18:18:37: <ais523> basically, there are three processes: weboflies, fakeinit, process under test +2011-11-05.txt:18:18:50: <ais523> weboflies forks fakeinit as root; fakeinit forks the process after dropping perms, so as nonroot +2011-11-05.txt:18:19:36: <ais523> and weboflies then can't read the process under test's perms on any computers but mine +2011-11-05.txt:18:48:32: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7583{,/fd} +2011-11-05.txt:18:48:32: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7584{,/fd} +2011-11-05.txt:18:50:35: <ais523> CLONE_PTRACE basically means "debugged-ness propagates over the clone"; weboflies injects it into other process's clone calls +2011-11-05.txt:18:54:29: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7739{,/fd} +2011-11-05.txt:18:54:29: <elliott> [elliott@dinky weboflies]$ ls -lhd /proc/7740{,/fd} +2011-11-05.txt:18:54:54: <ais523> elliott: OK, so now we have to figure out what weboflies is doing differently +2011-11-05.txt:18:57:00: <elliott> ais523: am i meant to be reading weboflies.c here, or are you? :-) +2011-11-05.txt:18:58:37: <Phantom_Hoover> What does weboflies do? +2011-11-05.txt:19:40:44: <elliott> ais523: any ideas about weboflies? +2011-11-05.txt:19:46:35: <ais523> such a pity that weboflies repels debuggers +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:17: <elliott> [elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu-img create weboflies.qemu2 4G +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:17: <elliott> Formatting 'weboflies.qemu2', fmt=raw size=4294967296 +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:17: <elliott> -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 4.0G Nov 5 19:59 weboflies.qemu2 +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:36: <elliott> [elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu-img create -f qcow2 weboflies.qcow2 4G +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:36: <elliott> Formatting 'weboflies.qcow2', fmt=qcow2 size=4294967296 encryption=off cluster_size=65536 +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:36: <elliott> [elliott@dinky Temp]$ ls -lh weboflies.qcow2 +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:36: <elliott> -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 193K Nov 5 19:59 weboflies.qcow2 +2011-11-05.txt:20:00:54: <ais523> for some weboflies test, I was using a sparse ext4 +2011-11-05.txt:21:42:05: <elliott> [elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu -m 1024 -hda weboflies.qcow2 -cdrom ~/Downloads/archlinux-2011.08.19-netinstall-i686.iso -boot c +2011-11-05.txt:22:59:04: <elliott> ais523: weboflies would work in Xen, right? +2011-11-05.txt:23:02:20: <elliott> ais523: [elliott@dinky Temp]$ qemu -m 1024 -hda weboflies.qcow2man -net nic -net user,hostfwd=tcp::2222:22 +2011-11-05.txt:23:46:03: <ais523> elliott: well, weboflies works just /fine/ inside the VM +2011-11-05.txt:23:49:02: <ais523> hmm, I just tried running weboflies on su, to see what would happen +2011-11-05.txt:23:53:33: <ais523> and this is running 32-bit su, as weboflies only runs 32-bit programs +2011-11-05.txt:23:54:21: <ais523> elliott: anyway, if you want to run weboflies, now you have a VM it works in ;) +2011-11-05.txt:23:58:10: <elliott> ais523: I did (weboflies) +2011-11-14.txt:22:29:52: <elliott> ais523: hmm, weboflies-related question: can you use a new filesystem namespace as a chroot? +2011-11-14.txt:22:30:52: <ais523> but I've never dared call it from inside weboflies, because I'm not quite that crazy +2011-12-15.txt:19:45:13: <elliott> ais523: but how will you calculate weboflies' eigenratio? +2011-12-15.txt:19:49:47: <ais523> elliott: heh, I have to keep remembering to check EFAULT in weboflies +2011-12-15.txt:19:55:04: <elliott> Vorpal: /proc/<pid>/fd failed to stop being owned by root on weboflies' complicated permissions drop +2012-01-08.txt:14:52:28: <elliott> Yes, so does weboflies. +2012-03-04.txt:19:22:45: <ais523> should be secure against non-malicious accidents; it just increases the attack surface somewhat for people trying to exploit suid weboflies, or whatever, and who'd be mad enough to suid it? +2012-03-04.txt:19:26:42: <ais523> suiding weboflies? +2012-03-04.txt:19:41:04: <ais523> that's exactly what I was doing with the fake framebuffer in weboflies anyway +2012-03-04.txt:19:47:47: <elliott> anyway, I don't see why weboflies couldn't just pretend to the running program that it's root +2012-03-04.txt:19:49:55: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies ls /dev/input +2012-03-04.txt:19:51:02: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies Xvfb :1 +2012-03-04.txt:19:55:32: <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls +2012-03-04.txt:19:56:26: <elliott> <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls +2012-03-04.txt:20:06:44: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ ln -s Xvfb_screen0 /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd +2012-03-04.txt:20:06:45: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ convert /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd /tmp/t.png +2012-03-04.txt:20:06:47: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ eog /tmp/t.png +2012-03-04.txt:20:06:57: <ais523> so Xvfb is definitely working outside weboflies +2012-03-05.txt:15:05:03: <ais523> I was trying to figure out htf a process inside weboflies could detect X outside it, apparently that was how +2012-03-05.txt:15:06:39: <ais523> do weboflies nc localhost 9999, and you get an error message back that it couldn't determine the IP address that localhost referred to +2012-03-05.txt:15:06:50: <ais523> because there isn't an /etc/hosts inside weboflies, and it has no other sort of DNS +2012-03-05.txt:15:34:51: <ais523> other anyway: I'm annoyed that X seems to segfault inside weboflies but not outside (both Xorg and Xvfb, which appear to be doing the same thing when they segfault) +2012-03-05.txt:15:35:13: <ais523> then all I'll have to do is get core dumps working inside weboflies… +2012-03-05.txt:16:22:25: <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault +2012-03-05.txt:16:25:21: <Phantom_Hoover> weboflies? +2012-03-05.txt:16:26:18: <ais523> yes, weboflies +2012-03-05.txt:16:26:54: <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: you know weboflies +2012-03-05.txt:16:27:01: <elliott> <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault +2012-03-05.txt:16:27:16: <elliott> ais523: ooh, you should post your weboflies problems on SO, the reactions would be priceless +2012-03-05.txt:16:27:20: <ais523> elliott: you /do/ know what happens if you put gdb and weboflies together, right? +2012-03-05.txt:16:31:19: <ais523> and if weboflies doesn't have a syscall implemented, it forwards it to the actual kernel +2012-03-05.txt:16:37:22: <fizzie> ais523: Anyway, can you get core dumps out of weboflies'd processes? It sounds not impossible for those to be gdb'able, depending on how things go. +2012-03-05.txt:16:43:54: <fizzie> ais523: What was the basic weboflies mechanism, anyway? ptrace with PTRACE_SYSCALL? +2012-03-05.txt:16:44:39: <ais523> btw, weboflies works inside strace (but not strace -f, nor does strace work inside weboflies) +2012-03-05.txt:16:44:46: <ais523> I wonder if /ltrace/ works inside weboflies? +2012-04-04.txt:02:50:00: <elliott> shachaf: That's what weboflies does. +2012-04-04.txt:03:24:39: <elliott> OK, lemme figure out where weboflies.c is.
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.18411 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,11 @@ +total 132 +-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Mar 21 22:18 UNDELETE.EXE +drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Mar 21 22:18 bin +-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Mar 21 22:18 canary +lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 8 Mar 21 22:18 hackenv -> /hackenv +-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 24 Mar 21 22:18 karma +drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Mar 21 22:18 lib +drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 8192 Mar 21 22:18 paste +-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 95912 Mar 21 22:18 quotes +drwxr-xr-x 3 5000 0 4096 Mar 21 22:18 share +drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Mar 21 22:18 wisdom
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.20377 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,33 @@ +2011-03-10.txt:21:12:42: <treederwright> is this a esoteric room +2011-03-10.txt:21:13:56: <treederwright> im new here, but i am a member of esoteric orders +2011-03-10.txt:21:14:12: <treederwright> is anyone here rosicrucian? +2011-03-10.txt:21:14:21: <treederwright> or a member of the tradition of the temple +2011-03-10.txt:21:15:37: <treederwright> im in the wrong area +2011-03-10.txt:21:15:42: <treederwright> this is for computer stuff +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:03: <treederwright> lol +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:29: <treederwright> i am just amazed at your funniness +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:42: <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:47: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:19:03: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:22:28: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:22:29: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-04-08.txt:22:25:05: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-15.txt:19:32:48: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-16.txt:16:57:38: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-18.txt:20:14:57: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-10-19.txt:19:14:01: <HackEgo> 316) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-03.txt:18:46:53: <HackEgo> 303) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:11:01:34: <HackEgo> 303) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:22:50:07: <HackEgo> 301) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:22:58:11: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:23:22:40: <elliott> 2011-03-10.txt:22:22:29: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-24.txt:01:18:49: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:09:16: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-12.txt:23:46:04: <HackEgo> 80) <fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli. \ 259) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. \ 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity \ 708) <Phantom__Hoover> +2012-02-16.txt:19:48:47: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-16.txt:19:50:34: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-21.txt:19:46:48: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-21.txt:20:05:15: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-26.txt:01:30:00: <itidus21> It really helps a lot when someone just blurts out an incomprehensible soundbyte like <treederwright> enjoy your matrix of solidarity +2012-02-26.txt:01:36:21: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-03-23.txt:19:23:24: <HackEgo> 294) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.23607 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,14 @@ +2011-11-03.txt:19:56:18: <ais523\unfoog> Vorpal: Web of Lies +2011-11-03.txt:19:56:45: <ais523\unfoog> but Web of Lies is a great name +2011-11-03.txt:21:18:16: <elliott> /* Timestamps. This stores the initial timestamp, in Web of Lies' +2011-11-04.txt:03:41:14: <elliott> At this rate it looks like I'm gonna have to steal Web of Lies' architecture-specific syscall-overriding code... +2011-11-04.txt:04:17:04: <elliott> Gregor: Have I mentioned Web of Lies does cooperative scheduling by overriding every single syscall to schedule +2011-11-04.txt:09:38:42: <elliott> I haven't got Web of Lies to work, but this is my cheap LD_PRELOAD version of the clock hack +2011-11-04.txt:09:48:01: <elliott> note: it was "sudo ./weboflies true"; true is 64-bit, but I tried it on Web of Lies itself and it still failed, so I suspect it's a generic problem +2011-11-04.txt:09:53:42: <elliott> because web of lies runs as root +2011-11-04.txt:10:00:11: <elliott> then it dumps me at the web of lies console +2011-11-05.txt:18:13:46: <ais523> btw, people experimenting with Web of Lies, did you come to any conclusions but "it doesn't run on modern Linux"? +2011-11-08.txt:21:06:36: <ais523> btw, does anyone have any feedback on Web of Lies yet? +2011-11-28.txt:21:26:39: <ais523> Web of Lies gives you a really good idea of how syscall-bound a program is +2011-12-15.txt:19:39:12: <ais523> Vorpal: one of the few things in the "deliberately unsupported because I can't figure out wtf effect it would have" list in Web of Lies +2012-03-04.txt:19:21:24: <ais523> I think I fixed the permissions problem in Web of Lies, anyway
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.23986 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,301 @@ +2003-07-25.txt:08:26:42: <andreou`work> the company is a start-up, so everyone does everything they know. they only know how to code, but i also administer the servers. +2003-07-28.txt:02:15:18: <andreou> For my personal history, over the years I've competed in and taught nightclub type dancing, surfed professionally and owned a surfboard company, competed in and coached both wrestling and tennis, become a real rocket scientist and a computer nerd, gotten five college degrees, acquired a teaching credential, hob-nobbed with many famous people, written several books (most are technical but one is on surfing and one is on Sombo - a form of martial arts), be +2003-09-08.txt:13:45:54: <Doppelganger> wn, web1913, and devils resipiency: web1913: Extramurals \Es`o*ter"ic\, a. Marked by shkewers our prefacies; pravidance; sloughed; campdens; as, an extremely perhaps; am extremities mating; wn: easterlings atack : company to and under by only an emulously inher circling; "a complet of ester polikoff's tarries" [ant: {exoteric}]; web1913: Easterly \Es`o*ter"ic\, no. (3 more messages) +2004-01-22.txt:03:00:20: <lament> (to accompany a flying arrow, no less) +2004-05-24.txt:00:32:42: <Toreun> it doesn't... it just follows stock market principles. it's basically like each blog is a company, and people trade shares of blogs +2004-05-30.txt:19:37:43: <Keymaker> yes, it wakes up and sues every other company and coder >:) +2004-06-28.txt:02:22:58: <Toreun> well if it's a bug in the hardware, call up the company +2004-06-28.txt:02:23:29: <WildHalcyon_> Im not sure which company to call... motherboard? graphics card? memory? +2004-07-17.txt:22:55:48: <tonsofpcs> ya, the same company made them i think +2005-03-05.txt:13:53:52: <{^Raven^}> i'd like to see a for-profit BrainFuck company ;) that would be something +2005-05-05.txt:16:34:29: <pgimeno> this damn hosting company doesn't allow subdomains +2005-05-08.txt:19:56:05: <Keymaker> hmmm, there's some field for organization or company, +2005-05-10.txt:20:21:36: <pgimeno> it's actually a company's name but who cares +2005-05-12.txt:19:29:40: <pgimeno> my domain is from a company, it can be moved but never deleted +2005-05-12.txt:19:30:22: <kipple> and what if the company goes under? or changes it's name? +2005-05-21.txt:13:44:06: <CXI> (except because wikimedia is non-profit and this is an ad-supported service they rolled out another essentially identical company for it) +2005-05-28.txt:05:40:36: <graue> sourceforge was developed by a company, they own it, and they are now trying to sell the "enterprise edition" of it to other companies for obscene amounts of money +2005-05-28.txt:05:42:57: <graue> no company is going to buy sourceforge enterprise edition because of your site, so don't worry about it +2005-06-17.txt:10:33:10: <pgimeno> I think that Mller is now working for a company offering a search engine +2005-06-22.txt:23:11:54: <calamari> nope. I need to get off actually, company came to the door :) +2005-06-28.txt:22:43:03: <jimbo00000> Gentlemen, it has been a pleasure to be in such esteemed company. Have an excellent evening. +2005-07-21.txt:23:14:09: <fizzie> Uh, it's a small company (physically in Teknologiakyl, Otaniemi, the ugly barracks near Innopoli) doing generally music-related edutainment things for x86/win32 platforms. It's horribly uninteresting, and I only do it _very_ part-timely to pay the rent. :p +2005-09-08.txt:23:15:57: <Aardwolf> I'm looking to have some webscpace once my univ page is gone, but I'll look for a Belgian company I think :) +2005-10-06.txt:04:46:36: <WildHalcyon_> I had no clue, to be honest. My efforts to research the 'company' didnt really google anything conclusive, except that they might be accountants. They're not, btw. +2005-10-06.txt:04:51:14: <WildHalcyon_> Im familiar with the company and "multi-level marketing" associated with it +2005-10-06.txt:05:04:27: <WildHalcyon_> Hey gs30, sorry Ive been researching my fraudulent company some more +2005-10-24.txt:22:53:08: <graue> I've heard those processors from that VIA company are really cool (literally) +2005-11-08.txt:00:55:37: <calamari> the company I was working for at the time blocked download of "executables".. so I couldn't resist :) +2005-12-14.txt:09:51:16: <handongseong> too tiresome to deal with people asking me what's wrong with me and that convenience store company, again and again +2006-01-24.txt:19:51:01: <fizzie> "C/o or Care of, used to address a letter when the letter must pass through an intermediary (for example, "John Smith, c/o the Universal Widget Company" (where the Universal Widget Company is the intermediary)." +2006-04-06.txt:17:35:06: <jix> i work in a company for 2 weeks +2006-04-06.txt:17:39:24: <nooga> you work for a company? +2006-04-06.txt:17:41:05: <jix> but in grade 9 or 10 we work in a company for 2 weeks +2006-04-26.txt:06:53:26: <nooga> well, i've been quite bussy, i'm working for a webdesign company now +2006-04-28.txt:22:30:01: <kate`> (partially since i work for a digital signage company) +2006-04-28.txt:22:30:32: <GregorR-W> kate`: Digital signage company? +2006-04-28.txt:22:36:58: <kate`> i think using R for demographic analaysis is about as exciting as that company gets +2006-06-24.txt:22:40:25: <_W_> Pfizer, Inc. (stock symbol) Pacific Fruit Express Company Packet Filtering Engine +2006-07-24.txt:17:12:57: <kipple> that leads to a hosting company for me +2006-07-24.txt:17:13:30: <GregorR-W> My hosting company. +2006-07-26.txt:20:33:17: <pgimeno> for unix and company +2006-08-01.txt:16:14:34: <GregorR-W> The bus company charged me $288 with the message "cannot contact bank" +2006-08-23.txt:16:06:07: <GregorR-W> Yaaay company bandwidth! +2006-09-23.txt:12:00:39: <SimonRC> "One to actually change the lightbulb, and twenty to make up the accompanying lightbulb jokes." +2006-10-15.txt:19:30:18: <SimonRC> particularly read the bit about the company "RunTCP" +2006-11-04.txt:01:34:40: * oerjan feels like he has one foot in the grave in this company. +2006-12-02.txt:20:13:18: <SimonRC> As PG puts it: "If Lenin walked around the offices of a company like Yahoo or Intel or Cisco, he'd think communism had won. Everyone would be wearing the same clothes, have the same kind of office (or rather, cubicle) with the same furnishings, and address one another by their first names instead of by honorifics. Everything would seem exactly as he'd predicted, until he looked at their bank accounts. Oops." +2007-01-02.txt:08:22:18: <pikhq> In conclusion: We should just let the RIAA's recent decision to sue a front company for the Russian mafia take its course. +2007-02-09.txt:19:40:56: <SimonRC> I mean, every time the ad is watched the company benefits, and they don't charge for it, so it is quite tough to object. +2007-02-20.txt:16:34:35: <GregorR> SimonRC: He's really just a programmer using a class of students to cheat for his company :P +2007-03-16.txt:21:04:27: <GregorR> Their interaction with the F/OSS community has been incredibly dishonest and immoral, carefully crafted to make naive people think they're a F/OSS-supporting company. +2007-03-19.txt:18:51:02: <ais523> the little TM that you put at the end of something to show it's a company or if you're just being ironic +2007-03-27.txt:03:23:44: <oerjan> of course when doing this as a "family" puzzle some of the point is to know the most operations, but I think in present company that constitutes overkill +2007-03-31.txt:21:38:52: <SimonRC> In the sense of people setting up a site with the company's name that looks like an official site +2007-04-14.txt:20:55:39: <lament> the company i'm working for +2007-04-15.txt:07:33:56: <RodgerTheGreat> as an individual, I freely give away most of my tinkerings. However, as a company, I'd view any GPLed code as a liability- it's just a ticking time-bomb that can take away my ability to control what I make and profit fairly from my own work. +2007-05-05.txt:03:57:11: <bsmntbombdood> Or a better power company +2007-05-14.txt:23:43:39: <SimonRC> '(semiautomtic aqua accompany slacks) +2007-05-20.txt:14:48:43: * SimonRC reads about a small company that has a 2:1 manager:developer ratio. +2007-07-07.txt:23:01:35: <oerjan> oklopol: pressing the button makes it go towards the accompanying swarm +2007-07-14.txt:00:13:47: <lament> (the main character holds a high position in a shoemaking company) +2007-07-22.txt:02:57:19: <oklopol> i assume it's a company +2007-07-26.txt:23:17:07: <test_> very friendly company +2007-07-31.txt:18:45:42: <ehird`> Sukoshi, A) boo hoo, one company is the source of all evil and can do no good, even if two parts are completely unrelated B) it's standardised by ECMA. by your logic, JavaScript is not open. C) So what? +2007-07-31.txt:18:58:22: <RodgerTheGreat> well, they're doing well with their Xbox arm, even though that segment of the company has operated at a continuous loss as long as it's been in existence. It's an example of Microsoft realizing there's something much more valuable than money- mindshare. +2007-07-31.txt:19:01:34: <RodgerTheGreat> an arm of a company. it's a metaphor. +2007-08-07.txt:16:42:42: <SimonRC> sounds like a frikkin' insurance company phone number +2007-08-07.txt:18:08:30: <ehird`> It's a very dynamic company; the bosses just come and go. +2007-08-18.txt:19:25:51: <SimonRC> (which is waht a certain company's keyboards feel like) +2007-08-29.txt:03:14:24: <bsmntbombdood> i have to write a letter to a pencil company telling them how great their pencils are +2007-08-29.txt:21:48:20: <SimonRC> "Falcon Broadband, Inc. was started in 2003 in Colorado Springs, CO. We are a locally owned and operated company." +2007-09-05.txt:23:36:56: <oklopol> "the turku cable tv company" if you couldn't decipher, that's prolly where this connection is from +2007-09-25.txt:05:11:15: <RodgerTheGreat> we have a lot of friction going on because we have a community half and a company half. +2007-09-27.txt:02:31:32: <oklopol> we should start arranging uberman orgies! "start uberman's through a week of hot steamy sex in good company!" +2007-10-03.txt:16:30:00: <ehird`> no other game company that i know does that +2007-10-03.txt:16:37:04: <RodgerTheGreat> Stealing from the company that invested time and money to design the car, perhaps +2007-10-10.txt:19:49:07: <SimonRC> Well, the company seems rather nice +2007-10-10.txt:19:51:20: <GregorR> They're such a good company, they can make 'R' a hexadecimal digit? +2007-10-14.txt:20:22:53: <oerjan> i thought it was a tire trademark/company +2007-10-23.txt:11:33:43: <StapleGun_> yea, id be a full time linux user if i could get game maker to run on linux ... that and company of heroes +2007-10-24.txt:02:53:56: <schad> well, i wud use linux, but i cant get company of heroes to run on it +2007-10-25.txt:20:22:03: <jix> and he runs the company my previous math teacher works at now +2007-11-05.txt:21:19:08: <ehird`> GregorR: an IRC client, written in python, with accompanying irc lib lycus +2008-01-18.txt:20:19:31: <Slereah> Are there any company that will send snailmails containing some text automatically? +2008-01-28.txt:19:00:18: <UnrelatedToQaz> Who's BP? The fuel company? +2008-02-04.txt:20:43:18: <ehird`> ... and unless you found your own company and make loads of money selling enterprise-level database systems! +2008-02-12.txt:02:29:58: <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html?page=0%2C0 +2008-02-20.txt:03:46:16: <oklopol> We are all gathered here to take a glance at the past three years we spent as a class. It was a journey of hard work, learning and self-discipline, but it was also about togetherness. There are some great stories, and even greater accomplishments, but I'll spare you from them. The end of high-school is the beginning of a new era for everyone, people get jobs and whatnot. Some go to university. Some just wither away in the absense of company and +2008-02-22.txt:17:49:39: <Slereah> They call themselves “hackers”, and their aim is to destroy every big company, everything that is conservative. I can’t tolerate this sort of persecution. The LORD himself was a conservative and he was nailed to a tree for it. It won’t be long before all of us are crucified too if Linux succeeds. +2008-02-23.txt:01:17:58: <Slereah> I've got monads to keep me company, don't worry. +2008-03-07.txt:23:31:48: <ais523|sl_busy> SimonRC: the one where a company had used JavaScript for authentication +2008-03-07.txt:23:32:25: <ais523|sl_busy> the amusing thing was that it appeared to be a scam company's website in the first place +2008-03-10.txt:23:03:42: <slereah_> I tried to find some punch card computer or something, but there's only one company that sells them, and it isn't cheap :o +2008-03-17.txt:22:36:15: * ais523 thinks that there are all types of people at Microsoft; the company itself is completely self-serving and acts in a way most of its employees dislike, but the employees themselves aren't all bad +2008-03-17.txt:22:36:39: <ais523> they're mostly just confounded by the company's rules to the point where they're not allowed to do nonevil things all that often +2008-03-17.txt:22:39:33: <AnMaster> but the company *IS* evil +2008-03-17.txt:22:39:51: <ais523> except I would have highlighted the word 'company' +2008-03-17.txt:22:41:04: <AnMaster> ehird, yes I would define evil as the microsoft company +2008-03-22.txt:01:11:40: * oerjan is reminded about the news tidbit about some japanese company who called their candy "dew dew" +2008-03-22.txt:01:12:53: <oerjan> otoh the Bonbon company around here seems to use that kind of naming for all their candy +2008-04-03.txt:17:25:46: <CakeProphet> does anyone want to start a life insurance company with me? I have a brilliant idea to defeat all competition. +2008-04-03.txt:17:29:30: <CakeProphet> so... when I start a life insurance company. +2008-04-03.txt:17:29:39: <CakeProphet> I am going to hire assassins to murder people who use other company's plans. +2008-04-03.txt:17:29:47: <CakeProphet> until the company's go out of business from having to pay out so much +2008-04-03.txt:17:33:39: <ais523> break into a company that makes cars, and alter the firmware so you can cause large-scale accidents remotely +2008-04-07.txt:21:24:48: <SimonRC> # Enemy lasagna / Robust below wax / Semiautomatic aqua / Accompany slacks / ... # +2008-04-12.txt:15:59:02: <AnMaster> why not mail the company and ask which one it is +2008-05-08.txt:18:03:33: <ehird> http://www.gemstone.com/ this is a better smalltalk company ;) +2008-05-21.txt:22:22:42: <ehird> GregorR: it'd be funny to find a nic running at companyname.tld that lets you reg nic.tld though +2008-06-05.txt:19:58:29: <tusho> lament: it's a company and they're primarily out to make money. +2008-06-05.txt:20:00:03: <tusho> out of the interests of keeping a company's hands off of this channel, and because it's not a very good service in my mind anyway. +2008-06-07.txt:22:38:44: <tusho> Slereah: And then turned into a HASKELL COMPANY +2008-06-12.txt:21:53:06: <SimonRC> if I found that someone was relying on that bit of the spec in production code I would suspect them of trying to sabotage the company +2008-06-12.txt:22:35:57: <Slereah7> This man was probably not loved much in his company. +2008-06-13.txt:16:16:09: <oerjan> and it _does_ appear in some japanese company names +2008-06-15.txt:17:51:00: <ais523> I think the company itself may have become sentient +2008-06-15.txt:17:54:55: <SimonRC> (I justify my company's work by saying that we're a service company, not a product company) +2008-06-15.txt:17:55:09: <ais523> SimonRC: what does your company do? +2008-06-21.txt:21:33:55: <SimonRC> that reminds me: I managed to break my company's primary SVN repos a few days back. +2008-07-02.txt:00:47:02: <GregorR> AnMaster: Very, very few languages have multiple frontends. C++ has two, most of the commercial ones license the frontend from a single company. +2008-07-02.txt:23:49:02: <GregorR> AnMaster: I lucked out on a pair of totally-synthetic-leather-free vegan shoes, and before that there was one company that sold non-chromium-tanned leather shoes. +2008-07-08.txt:16:23:14: <tusho> it's from the same company that makes Passenger +2008-07-13.txt:21:52:11: <oerjan> (the scandinavian parts are licensed to a company (Reitan group) based here in trondheim) +2008-07-19.txt:02:29:45: <oerjan> 2's company +2008-07-21.txt:21:57:00: <AnMaster> Program and/or Extension Function [What's This?] Company [What's This?] +2008-07-21.txt:21:57:14: <AnMaster> Program and/or Extension Function [What's This?] Company [What's This?] +2008-07-31.txt:10:22:56: <tusho> and we went onto the site and it was a spidering bot for a company saying they were 'reinventing search' blah blah blah +2008-07-31.txt:10:48:53: <tusho> {The company says it's attempting to tag each search result with an image "that will help people visually check whether the result is something they want to click on."} +2008-07-31.txt:21:07:01: <SimonRC> I am sure the occasional ridiculous images are helping that company +2008-07-31.txt:22:12:16: * oerjan wonders why people trust a company that obviously has Lex Luthor as CEO... +2008-08-01.txt:15:41:54: <ais523> oh for a moment I thought pikhq was referring to the parcel company +2008-08-08.txt:21:54:49: <AnMaster> company* +2008-08-08.txt:21:56:31: <ais523> I think BBC Micro was related at least tangentially to the broadcasting company, partly because BBC Micro Mode 7 uses the same terminal-control language as Teletext uses +2008-08-12.txt:22:13:44: <psygnisfive> metaweb is a company :) +2008-08-16.txt:00:38:21: <psygnisfive> i want to have a porn company some day +2008-08-19.txt:00:28:14: <tusho> [[True story, I swear: Major software company in Andalusia. A mate of mine is coding using vi. His supervisor walks up behind him and after spying over his shoulder for a couple of minutes, interrupts his work and demands to know what he's doing. "Coding." "But you must use Word." She says. "Why?" "Well, it has a lot of advantages. For example the 'undo' function..."]] -- reddit comment +2008-08-27.txt:18:44:04: <tusho> because they are the worst company ever +2008-08-27.txt:18:45:51: <tusho> anyway, microsoft are not this huge, wholly incompetent company +2008-08-27.txt:18:46:15: <tusho> mostly, microsoft are a good, respectable company +2008-08-27.txt:18:46:48: <lament> it's a gigantic company suffering from mismanagement and lack of direction +2008-08-27.txt:18:47:28: <ais523> the problem, I find, is that the company itself tends to come up with evil things none of its employees agree with +2008-08-27.txt:18:49:26: <ais523> the other one works for a big company too, maybe IBM but I'm not sure +2008-08-30.txt:22:11:22: <tusho> that is the whole point of a company +2008-08-31.txt:12:45:19: <tusho> AnMaster: OH NO A COMPANY IS PROTECTING THEIR EFFORTS +2008-08-31.txt:13:22:40: <tusho> and you'll get paid by a company called Xirian (pronounced Zirian) or something like that, to work on oklotalk all the time +2008-09-02.txt:12:42:14: <ais523> it doesn't look like the work of a reputable company +2008-09-09.txt:22:08:56: <tusho> One airline company does, I believe. +2008-09-09.txt:22:40:59: <ais523> which is like this one, except a lot smaller, Microsoft are a hardware company that supports Linux, and everything runs INTERCAL except for a few weirdos discussing languages like C and Java +2008-09-18.txt:14:43:52: <tusho> because they are a hardware company +2008-09-18.txt:14:44:06: <AnMaster> well they would make more money as a software company I suspect +2008-09-18.txt:14:45:04: <tusho> they're a hardware company that makes their money because of their software +2008-09-21.txt:02:47:58: <GregorR> "He planned to leave his vast riches to you, but due to a typo in the will it's been given to somebody with an extremely similar name ... the company he bought the will from had a money-back guarantee however, so here's $39.95." +2008-09-22.txt:21:46:41: <ais523> company's email address cannot be protected by the (tm) comment correctly. +2008-09-23.txt:20:19:19: <tusho> I know i'd trust an established openid host by the company that created openid and is endorsed by tons of people & organizations +2008-09-23.txt:20:19:47: <AnMaster> tusho, a company can go bankrupt +2008-09-28.txt:18:57:55: <ais523> well, a standard entirely created by one company is suspicious +2008-09-28.txt:19:56:56: <oerjan> 'TTC - Stands for "The TTC Company"' +2008-09-28.txt:21:23:22: <oerjan> hm indee is a record company +2008-10-06.txt:11:38:14: <ais523> generally speaking one company will write imperative VHDL +2008-10-06.txt:11:38:48: <ais523> and another company will compile it by hand to VHDL that compiles to hardware +2008-10-09.txt:19:33:48: <ehird> its just the same company +2008-10-09.txt:22:18:12: <ais523> and I think the water's split up by water company here, rather than by city size +2008-10-13.txt:19:20:36: <AnMaster> also it seems it is a one man company, says so on front page +2008-10-15.txt:16:37:20: <fizzie> Hey, you are all probably experts in this field: I have this plate made out of "compound marble" (a sort of marble/plastic composite material, apparently) and I need two circular holes in it (with diameters of 34 and 45 mm). Where can I find a company (in Finland, preferrably Espoo) that can make me such holes? +2008-10-16.txt:14:10:39: <AnMaster> I never heard of that insurance company before now... +2008-10-16.txt:21:18:03: <fizzie> (The company was Nokia; you may have heard of it.) +2008-10-16.txt:21:20:29: <fizzie> Okay, I guess most people know that, but it's an old joke that Finland's most successful company has a faux-Japanese-sounding name.) +2008-10-16.txt:21:23:49: <fizzie> The tires and boots were part of the same Nokia company back then in the 1960s. +2008-10-17.txt:13:15:35: <ais523> between Apple the record company and Apple the computer company +2008-10-17.txt:13:15:52: <ais523> the record company claim the computer company started to breach their trademark when they released the iPod +2008-10-17.txt:14:08:42: <ais523> the management lecturer last year was actually quite good though, he tought me accounting and company law +2008-10-18.txt:18:15:09: <ehird> is more important to a person than the fact that it's a company called foobar +2008-10-19.txt:15:45:54: <oerjan> ooh, you could have a company policy that said you had to use all colors balancedly... +2008-10-19.txt:18:20:53: <fungot> Asztal: madam president, mr posselt, let me say that we should take the decision we need to look at the simple trend, i have one difficulty which is not covered by specific community legislation, so ias can only be achieved by applying lower rates of growth, employment and the unwieldiness of the procedures, favouring a more competitive and makes his company more competitive. everyone agrees on that, are dying as a result of ad +2008-10-20.txt:20:52:36: <fungot> oerjan: the cygwin page does say programs need to work much better.) originally developed by miller puckette and company at fnord. +2008-10-22.txt:00:56:49: <lament> it's a clothing company +2008-10-23.txt:23:11:35: <fungot> AnMaster: the constant use of " coup" here is simply incorrect. first uncertainty can be incorporated into the section on company officers, but it states there that the ep peaked at 2 ' ' fnord +2008-10-24.txt:21:06:21: <fizzie> Yes, I guess I could add some sort of funge-space fetch commands to accompany ^code. Not sure if I'll bother, though. +2008-11-03.txt:13:55:25: <AnMaster> if Forest is a company that is +2008-11-05.txt:22:01:14: <AnMaster> ehird, yes for internally using it in a company it makes sense +2008-11-08.txt:01:41:51: <fizzie> And the company providing the cruise ship for today's celebrationationary things started their pre-christmas cruise offering on September 15th; now *that* would've been very pre. +2008-11-20.txt:17:37:14: <GregorR> Shit, my hosting company is not going to be happy with me :P +2008-11-25.txt:14:53:54: <ehird> Dear Sir, We are top ranked web Development Company from India having vast set of experience in development and designing of complex solutions. We have well trained and experienced developers and programmers specialized in different technologies. Please find the details with PMB along with Project execution plan. Thank you, Tech-Sters.. +2008-11-27.txt:01:26:26: <oklopol> pwnage inside a small group like a company is trivial, the hard part is being better than all the savants with some kinda mental issues out there. +2008-11-27.txt:14:13:50: <ehird> it's the company steve jobs made when he was fired from apple +2008-12-04.txt:13:24:43: <ehird> the people who wrote it are #haskell regulars and stuff, some work at galois (company thing that uses haskell). +2008-12-06.txt:20:05:31: <zuff> AnMaster: Apple is a hardware company, except its hardware only sells because of its software. +2008-12-07.txt:16:05:55: <SimonRC> GregorR: I have seen a better comment in some code at my company. "// always interested in children" +2008-12-25.txt:17:08:44: <ais523|direct> mib_vvzkm4: you are going to put their copyright notice in the materials accompanying the distribution, right? +2009-01-09.txt:17:43:00: <AnMaster> well, what about work? Either rich enough to not need it or the company sponsors this, or something else +2009-01-12.txt:16:12:32: <jix> well but from what i can imagine the IT work a heizungsableser-company needs isn't that interesting +2009-01-12.txt:16:12:44: <flexo> not for the company +2009-01-12.txt:18:37:51: <oerjan> i think you need a registered norwegian company +2009-01-13.txt:21:59:06: <ehird> yes. email a security company. +2009-01-14.txt:16:59:47: <ehird> The people on the Tubes must chip in and make an alternative to You Tube, it's not that expensive. The company must be based somewhere outside USA and it should be owned by at least 1 Mil guys so it will be never sold to any big company. +2009-01-14.txt:17:46:30: <ais523> it's pretty amazing that a genuine company has a whole esolang win +2009-01-18.txt:21:23:25: <ais523> they got the domain free with the company +2009-02-14.txt:23:15:45: <ehird> [[The folks at Ryka, a manufacturer of women's shoes, wanted to be certain that no potential customers could be excluded. Thus, rather than providing option (or radio) buttons to indicate one's gender, they decided to use checkboxes, to allow the potential customer to indicate Male, Female, or, well, both, and for that matter, none. We found this especially interesting given the company motto, "Exclusively for women by women." Inclusiveness must be "in".]] +2009-02-14.txt:23:17:03: <ehird> the company doesn't need to know my gender, so stop trying to dat amine +2009-02-17.txt:21:56:34: <ehird> how do you know the electricity company isn't monitoring your secret files +2009-02-18.txt:16:52:03: <ehird> well, if you're in the 80s and a company, you make yer own damn chip +2009-02-20.txt:16:58:35: <ehird> should team up with a cryonics company +2009-02-21.txt:21:26:20: <ehird> i can understand why a company would take them out in the current corporateosphere, but they shouldn't even exist +2009-02-22.txt:00:07:19: <ehird> it's just a lifeless shell of a company +2009-03-06.txt:13:39:57: <fizzie> I, uh... let's see if I can find the other, accompanying picture first. +2009-03-06.txt:13:42:49: <fizzie> oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/slide3pic3.jpg is the accompanying picture. +2009-03-07.txt:21:31:07: <oklopol> it's a short snippet, esoteric ideas will usually sound crappier without company. +2009-03-08.txt:07:52:43: <zzo38> Yes I did but I am writing software and specifications more a bit, and then one day I need to get a computer hardware and stuff, and then I can write the software more, testing it, make a company, and a few more things, make manual, etc, and then it will be complete. +2009-03-11.txt:19:27:11: <AnMaster> ehird, the company is Scandinavian to begin with. +2009-03-11.txt:22:45:57: <AnMaster> is that trailer made by the company or as a joke by someone else? +2009-03-11.txt:22:46:04: <ehird> company +2009-03-11.txt:22:46:55: <AnMaster> what is this company? +2009-03-12.txt:15:02:17: <fizzie> Granted, that's the only big-company example I can think of right now. +2009-03-12.txt:15:34:07: <asiekierk> not Apple Blue as in the company +2009-03-12.txt:15:47:03: <ais523> and used it to spam themself, and DDOS a company they had a prior arrangement with +2009-03-12.txt:15:47:47: <ais523> as in the UK TV company +2009-03-12.txt:16:17:18: <ehird> By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. +2009-03-12.txt:16:18:25: <AnMaster> "By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. " +2009-03-12.txt:16:19:04: <ehird> the bbc are admitting they ddosed a security company +2009-03-12.txt:16:19:19: <ais523> ehird: but the security company said they could +2009-03-12.txt:16:19:46: <ehird> 15:17 ehird: By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. +2009-03-14.txt:23:44:30: <ehird> "Okay this is subjective because it depends on your definition of large. When I say large, I mean about 6 gigs or so. Because your company's source tree is probably that large." +2009-03-14.txt:23:44:34: <ehird> That is one shit company. +2009-03-22.txt:19:56:56: <ehird> We are a super stealthy Hollywood, CA, tech startup located in the penthouse offices of a loft-style building. We are in search of the rumored Delta Squad Developer who could fit all the ridiculous languages that our 12-person software company is looking for. +2009-03-24.txt:18:45:12: <ehird> http://e-texteditor.com/blog/2009/opencompany This is cool +2009-03-24.txt:18:59:02: <AnMaster> ehird, company still exists? +2009-03-24.txt:19:00:12: <AnMaster> ehird, yes I'm just surprised it isn't a left over web page of some company that went bust.. +2009-03-26.txt:16:36:41: <ehird> ais523: I'd put that as the company situation +2009-03-31.txt:17:34:41: <ehird> Same company +2009-03-31.txt:17:39:51: <fizzie> "F-Secure is historically related to FRISK Software International, a company based in Iceland, which publishes F-Prot antivirus. The original F-Prot conglomerate of Icelandic, Finnish and American computer antivirus researchers fell apart during the early 1990s and the resulting companies divided the global market." +2009-03-31.txt:20:21:37: <ais523> because the computers there are set to the company's homepage +2009-04-02.txt:16:47:10: <ehird> Normally a company would received 1208925819614629174706176 addresses to cover up to 65536 sites. +2009-04-03.txt:00:21:52: <ehird> Every company has bad times +2009-04-04.txt:22:07:32: <ehird> The company drew attention when it announced it was in talks with several United Kingdom ISPs to deliver targeted advertising based on user browsing habits by using deep packet inspection.[3] It is one of several companies developing behavioral targeting advertising systems, seeking deals with ISPs to enable them to analyse customers' websurfing habits in order to deliver targeted advertising to them. Others include NebuAd and Front Porch.[4] +2009-04-04.txt:22:11:03: <fizzie> AnMaster_ipv6: Finnish ISP. Well, a phone company. Something like that. +2009-04-04.txt:23:44:13: <oklopol> AnMaster_ipv6: well i was thinking you'd sit in a cubicle and make code for a big company +2009-04-05.txt:01:55:38: <kerlo> Magic: that game where one of the main ways to improve is by paying a certain company. +2009-04-08.txt:19:54:24: <ehird> by the company "Gigabyte" +2009-04-08.txt:20:03:35: <ehird> Well, the company's called GrowUp Japan. +2009-04-08.txt:20:03:48: <AnMaster> ehird, which is a silly name for a company +2009-04-08.txt:20:23:51: <asie[Virus]> ais523: Imagine it hits a big company. +2009-04-08.txt:22:29:25: <ehird> It's a custom-configured, built-to-ship PC bought from an internet-only company. +2009-04-08.txt:23:05:28: <ehird> AnMaster: Recommend a good monitor company? +2009-04-10.txt:08:03:31: <fizziet> Well, no, not alone, but my travelling company is sleeping. +2009-04-10.txt:08:04:02: <oklopol> fizziet: HOW CAN A WHOLE COMPANY SLEEP? +2009-04-10.txt:08:04:41: <fizziet> Obviously only a company that does not care about PROFIT MARGINS can sleep. +2009-04-10.txt:08:06:57: <oklopol> well night, this company'll sleep too, now +2009-04-10.txt:23:22:37: <ais523> it's official, but the joke was that Homelands was introduced by a rival company and Coldsnap was the actual third set in that block +2009-04-17.txt:03:26:36: <GregorR> Like walks for charity. A walk for charity is some company holding money for ransom until you walk a mile. +2009-04-19.txt:16:30:37: <ehird> "Is your company working on X-ray equipment, or anything that might endanger a human life? " +2009-04-19.txt:19:31:26: <pikhq> I'd love to, I really would. If the freaking phone company would offer ADSL here, I'd have it. +2009-04-20.txt:07:03:15: <GregorR> Hahahah @ the mouseover on xkcd 570: "Somewhere out there is a company that has actually figured out how to enlarge penises, and it's helpless to reach potential customers." +2009-04-20.txt:16:55:27: <ais523> I wonder what they'll do with the rest of the company? +2009-04-22.txt:19:02:48: <Deewiant> ehird: Er, you have a keyboard model you like but it's from the wrong company so you'll get a different one? Wtf? +2009-04-22.txt:19:08:43: <Deewiant> Monster Cable is a company? +2009-04-22.txt:19:08:49: <ehird> Yes. A scamster company. +2009-04-22.txt:19:56:16: <fizzie> For .fi you also need to be someone living in Finland, or a company/organization/foundation registered in the corresponding Finnish registry. +2009-04-22.txt:19:57:28: <fizzie> fu.fi is registered to "All You Need Finland Oy" ("Oy" being the company-suffix). +2009-04-23.txt:18:11:47: <oerjan> it's supposed to be the company name +2009-04-23.txt:18:12:35: <oerjan> or did he actually try an SQL injection on the norwegian company register? :D +2009-04-23.txt:21:52:23: <ehird> a book with accompanying soundtrack +2009-04-23.txt:22:16:25: <okloduk> i wonder if any big company has ever just decided to stop at the top. +2009-04-24.txt:16:49:49: <ehird> In 1999 Syse Data was converted to a limited liability company, and has since been trading under the name Syse Data AS[1]. As the names are so similar, searches for our company in the official Norwegian registry of just-about-anything (Brønnøysundregistrene) often resulted in potential customers looking up the wrong company. To prevent this confusion we recently changed the name of the old (non-LLC) company, and figured we'd use the opportunity for som +2009-04-24.txt:16:49:53: <ehird> The old company was renamed to: +2009-04-25.txt:20:44:14: <ehird> ais523: what company? +2009-04-26.txt:00:36:25: <ehird> "Microsoft created a loyal customer in me. I like their products, and I'm not ashamed to say it. They are just another company making software, and they happen to have the biggest market share. Why? Not because they're evil and sacrifice cats - it's because their operating system is the easiest and best to use, as evidenced by the entire fucking world" +2009-04-26.txt:18:26:38: * nooga works in a company where every employee has MS exems passed, certified experts, premium msdn shit available, VIP MS support +2009-04-28.txt:17:37:25: <ehird> AnMaster: evil deep packet inspection → targeted ads company +2009-04-29.txt:22:20:00: <ehird> Bytemark seems to load quite fast from the uk (since they're a uk company) and do ipv6, so that's the main competitor to prgmr for me atm +2009-05-02.txt:17:29:43: <AnMaster> ais523, where are they a company then +2009-05-02.txt:17:30:24: <ais523> the main server's in the UK, although that doesn't mean the company is of course +2009-05-02.txt:23:10:39: <ehird> it's chuck moore's new company +2009-05-03.txt:21:40:43: <ehird> bsmntbombdood: a company +2009-05-04.txt:01:30:03: <pikhq> AMD's existence for most of the company's history *has* depended on being cheaper than Intel chip, so *shrug*. +2009-05-06.txt:05:08:27: <pikhq> And the company ceases to exist. +2009-05-06.txt:05:09:09: <pikhq> GregorR: Chapter 11 means that the debtors and the company talk about how best for the company to get out of debt. +2009-05-09.txt:00:02:38: * oerjan googles the company name visible +2009-05-09.txt:21:24:10: <ehird> GregorR: A thought for you while I brb: ARMjs. From the Simple Gargantuan Gadgets (SGG) chip company; an early competitor to Ligence. +2009-05-09.txt:21:48:38: <ehird> 21:24 ehird: GregorR: A thought for you while I brb: ARMjs. From the Simple Gargantuan Gadgets (SGG) chip company; an early competitor to Ligence. +2009-05-10.txt:18:35:07: <asiekierka> yup, sounds like a network card company +2009-05-11.txt:16:59:34: <ehird> Deewiant: Dell's the first big company I've seen do it. +2009-05-11.txt:17:01:04: <AnMaster> I never said no big company would. Since I knew Apple used to. Though I probably said it was risky and I couldn't see why they did it. AND provided warrandy +2009-05-12.txt:18:11:39: <pikhq> Also, porting dietlibc to Solaris wouldn't help a nonfree software company any more. +2009-05-13.txt:17:49:09: <ehird> let's fine every company! +2009-05-13.txt:17:49:44: <ehird> let's declare being a company to be illegal :| +2009-05-14.txt:23:49:37: <ais523> nah, the entire company of Intel lives inside my computer +2009-05-14.txt:23:52:28: <ais523> yes, even if it is an improvement, it's not the sort of thing a company does when they're doing well +2009-05-15.txt:18:12:21: <ehird> Cons: price and the company who makes it +2009-05-15.txt:18:12:22: <ehird> Other Thoughts: stop and think seriously think about where intel gets their new technology from............... AMD. Intergrated memory controller and 64 bit technology both comes from AMD so for those who bash said company well your r-tarded. AMD holds the patents on the new Technology Intel uses and intel is trying to cancel AMD's right to make x86 cpu's so that means AMD pulls those rights from Intel so all of you who jumped aboard the i7 boat will sin +2009-05-16.txt:16:45:33: <ais523> the first time it tried, all it did was say that its location was in Edinborough, and which company hosted it +2009-05-16.txt:16:57:33: <ehird> so presumably it thinks MXLCIX is the stock symbol of a french company, awesome +2009-05-16.txt:22:35:07: <psygnisfive> or maybe a garlic hoare, given the company i keep here +2009-05-16.txt:22:38:37: <AnMaster> <psygnisfive> or maybe a garlic hoare, given the company i keep here +2009-05-17.txt:20:57:01: <fizzie> ehird: Oh, and the 110Mbps-down-5Mbps-up cable-TV-company/ISP is Welho, which is rather in the clueless group of ISPs, so I really don't think they do any IPv6 stuff or anything. +2009-05-18.txt:00:35:36: <pikhq> Except that my DVD-ROM drive comes from the same company. +2009-05-19.txt:17:38:12: <ais523> although company-academic, not university-academic +2009-05-19.txt:17:38:59: <ehird> ais523: yes, it's "company research" +2009-05-19.txt:19:45:05: <ehird> w/ accompanying software +2009-05-19.txt:19:50:39: <ais523> <Xilinx> (typical technology company homepage) +2009-05-19.txt:19:51:28: <ehird> that's a different FPGA company +[too many lines; stopping]
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.31451 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,2603 @@ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:44:38: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:53:59: <elliott_> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:03: <ais523> hi elliott_ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:09: <ais523> spammer got past the CAPTCHA +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:13: <ais523> could you check to make sure it's a human? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:25: <ais523> (I indef-blocked the account, auto-blocked the IP, deleted the page and blacklisted the domain) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:55:43: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:55:47: <ais523> I just mean I didn't turn it off +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:42: <elliott_> ais523: looks human to me, except this one is using something that looks like IE7, rather than IE8 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:47: <ais523> fair enoguh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:49: <ais523> (enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:51: <ais523> *enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:56: <ais523> the IP traces to a large Indian ISP +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:58:27: <elliott_> ais523: btw, do you know how I could make "Prevent user from sending e-mail" the default? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:58:53: <ais523> I don't know, although it wouldn't surprise me i there was a config setting somewhere +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:10:42:34: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:10:59:26: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:01:27: <elliott_> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:04:09: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:03: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:11: <elliott_> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:20: <ais523> hi +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:32: <ais523> yay, I actually managed to ping myself before the connection dropped this time :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:39:00: <ais523> In December 2009, Paul Gogarty apologised in advance for using "unparliamentary language" prior to shouting "fuck you!" at an opposition chief whip.[7] This phrase was not one of those listed explicitly as inappropriate, prompting calls for a review.[9] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:39:29: <ais523> so was the review about whether "fuck you!" is inappropriate, or about whether it's correct to apologise for using phrases not on the inappropriate phrases list? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:29: <elliott_> ais523: hey, when do you think we should take down the sitenotice? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:41: <ais523> Vorpal's seen it now, so so has everyone else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:44: <ais523> so may as well take it down +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:58: <ais523> his reaction in channel was hilarious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:45:05: <ais523> I think it was yesterday or the day before +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:43: <ais523> elliott_: even if you were clear, I don't think Vorpal would believe you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:53: <ais523> or at least, even if he did, he'd pretend not to for humour value +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:56: <elliott_> ais523: That was rather below my threshold for hilarious. :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:01: <ais523> sorry +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:07: <ais523> I thought the discussion about a coup was funny +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:13: <ais523> or just the first couple of lines +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:21: <ais523> new Mediawiki, hmm and elliott's behind it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:00: <ais523> hmm, so it seems that Visual C++ version 11 doesn't support Windows XP in the binaries it produces +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:23: <elliott_> ais523: presumably just "by default" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:26: <ais523> yep, that's been around for a while +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:42: <ais523> elliott_: it doesn't ship with a libc that runs on windows XP +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:49: <ais523> so you'd need to find one from somewhere +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:51:12: <ais523> well, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:51:19: <ais523> (the libc gets statically linked on Windows, usually, it seems) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:52:40: <ais523> what does SFINAE mean? trying to read about C++ is tricky because of all the acronyms +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:52:50: <ais523> (I can ask this safely as I don't pretend to understand more than a smallish subset of C++) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:53:06: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:53:19: <ais523> I'm a little surprised it's major enough to have a Wikipedia article about it… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:41: <ais523> I'd have tried Wikipedia first if I expected the article to exist +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:43: <ais523> but I didn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:52: <ais523> and wow, the concept itself is beautifully ridiculous :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:56:14: <ais523> what does 1.19 have that you want? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:59:48: <elliott_> ais523: conjecture: Wikipedia's relicensing to CC failed, because not everybody could edit Wikipedia at the time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:13: <ais523> I don't see why that would be relevant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:26: <ais523> I believe they could relicense the content without anyone's permission but the FSF if they really wanted to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:32: <ais523> but they decided to seek permission anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:58: <ais523> oh, I see +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:06: <ais523> technicalities don't apply in legal documents, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:33: <ais523> I also like the definition of "incorporate", there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:40: <ais523> because it's so different from the normal legal meaning +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:54: <ais523> elliott_: I think I got my reminders before you did +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:02:01: <ais523> and I already happy-thatted yesterday for the Australian version +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:02:31: * ais523 notes that it's possible to verb even relative pronouns +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:31: <ais523> oh, you check email actively? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:46: <ais523> I just leave Evolution backgrounded and look at it when the new-messages popup comes up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:52: <ais523> that's what I meant by actively +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:58: <ais523> you make a decision to check it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:04:04: <ais523> rather than checking it in the background, so to speak +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:25: <ais523> err, what? Evolution was installed on here by default +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:39: <ais523> admittedly, it needed to be configured to contact all three of my email addresses +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:56: <ais523> and I really don't get why people use web browsers to access all sorts of services they aren't designed for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:03: <ais523> gmail's interface is hideous compared to Evolutions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:07: <ais523> *Evolution's +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:14: <ais523> (and yes, I have used gmail, although I didn't create the account) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:34: <ais523> and I'm not convinced it's possible to build a good interface inside the browser, because the browser is doing its own thing that's optimised for browsing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:41: <ais523> not to mention, GMail doesn't work offline +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:53: <ais523> (I think they were trying to come up with some convoluted scheme to fix that, but still…) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:36: <elliott_> <ais523> err, what? Evolution was installed on here by default +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:44: <elliott_> <ais523> and I really don't get why people use web browsers to access all sorts of services they aren't designed for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:54: <ais523> it is, it notifies by default if you leave it running +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:05: <elliott_> ais523: yes, but it also connects via IMAP and creates rubbish IMAP folders and junk +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:17: <ais523> and evolution-alarm-notifier (the calendar notifier) runs even if Evolution isn't running, if the calendar is non-empty +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:30: <ais523> well I don't have this problem because I'm not using gmail +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:50: <elliott_> ais523: yes, you don't; I do +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:05: <ais523> hmm, I tend to turn threading off in things that support turning it off +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:09: <ais523> I turned it off in my newsreader, for instance +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:19: <ais523> so that I don't have to click round between multiple threads to find all the messages that have arrived recently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:02: <ais523> so here's one for you: suppose you need to mark all the messages in your inbox with a particular string in their subject line as unread +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:07: <ais523> how do you do that in gmail? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:17: <ais523> (note: actual real-world problem I had a while ago) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:23: <ais523> elliott_: that's what quoting's for, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:43: <elliott_> ais523: search for the string, click check box in the top-left, click the second sentence link in "All 20 conversations on this page are selected. Select all conversations that match this search", more -> mark as unread +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:46: <ais523> fizzie: right, it does, but they've improved the interface by exposing that option right when you're configuring the account +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:54: <elliott_> ais523: you can also use a filter to apply it to all incoming mail (and then apply that filter retroactively) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:55: <ais523> elliott_: some messages contain the string not in the subject line +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:00: <ais523> and those ones shouldn't be marked as unread +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:11: <elliott_> ais523: subject:foo +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:19: <ais523> also, this is one-off so filters aren't helpful, and putting the string in the search box also finds messages that don't contain the exact string, but an approximation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:34: <ais523> well, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:57: <ais523> it's still a lot more work than setting the search style to "subject" then typing in the string to search on +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:17:00: <fizzie> ais523: That's Tfoo\n;wN in mutt. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:17:09: <elliott_> ais523: not really, I could have used keyboard shortcuts +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:24:32: <elliott_> ais523: anyway, a web browser has what I would consider significant advantages over a traditional desktop application as far as email goes, IMO +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:24:45: <elliott_> ais523: in that it's designed around portrait-scale, reflowable text +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:02: <elliott_> ais523: with "light" navigation as part of the content rather than something omnipresent +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:14: <ais523> elliott_: hmm… reflowable text has to be a solved problem by now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:35: <ais523> the thing is, people expect emails to have significant line breaks, because they usually do +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:45: <elliott_> ais523: well, yes, I'm just saying that as far as a fixed layout of widgets vs. a "document" display of things goes, the latter seems better for email to me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:45: <ais523> so I think many clients choose not to reflow emails +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:01: <elliott_> ais523: oh, that's an incidental thing, but yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:08: <ais523> well, it makes sense to use an HTML renderer to display emails +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:11: <ais523> especially HTML emails +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:13: <elliott_> ais523: it's more the "type" of document I'm talking about +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:21: <ais523> but you do that in the bit of the client that displays the email itself, not the whole thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:28: <elliott_> ais523: I wasn't talking about rendering engine +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:43: <ais523> what were you talking about? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:53: <elliott_> ais523: well... what I said +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:04: <ais523> well, you mentioned a display +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:20: <ais523> as in, which bit of a browser are you saying is useful here? the rendering engine? something else? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:38: <ais523> clearly it's only a subset of the browser that matters, as, say, an FTP client is irrelevant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:28:41: <ais523> and I'm saying that that argument only applies to the bit of the client that shows the email itself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:28:49: <ais523> which is typically not done with a GUI toolkit, but with an HTML renderer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:11: <ais523> things like a list of messages? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:16: <ais523> and a list of accounts? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:32: <ais523> I have my reply button on a toolbar, so I can memorize its location +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:35: <elliott_> ais523: yes, web browsers are also very good at lists of things, because what's each item in the list of messages? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:41: <ais523> (I dislike the Thunderbird style at associating it with a message) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:50: <ais523> elliott_: err, no, web browsers are not good at lists of things +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:09: <ais523> they're good at links, but links are basically "reacting to clicks", and everything can do that trivially +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:22: <ais523> and actually, a list of emails /isn't/ a list of links +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:28: <ais523> because you can do things like select then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:29: <ais523> *them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:35:03: <ais523> the talk page is pretty funny too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:36:44: <ais523> do celebrities have more or fewer friends on average than people as a whole? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:41:45: <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:05: <Vorpal> ais523, technically I believe Skyrim is an indie game though. Heh. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:45: <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:58: <ais523> and the common-usage definition is also entirely reasonable and fits the meaning of its individual words +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:01: <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:18: <ais523> I don't know, I've never played it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:38: <elliott_> Vorpal: you seem to have missed the part where ais523 explicitly criticised your publisher-based definition +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:11: <ais523> elliott_: oh right, I'd forgotten that his scrollback sometimes doesn't even extend one line +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:38: <elliott_> <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:41: <elliott_> <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:43: <elliott_> <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:55: <Vorpal> <Vorpal> ais523, technically I believe Skyrim is an indie game though. Heh. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:56: <Vorpal> <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:45:02: <Vorpal> <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:45:07: <Vorpal> <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:30: <ais523> elliott_: I was going on the meanings of "independent" and "video game" combined +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:43: <ais523> as in, I assumed that Vorpal meant "literal" as in "composed out of the meanings of the individual words" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:48: <ais523> as it was the sense he seemed to be using it in +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:52:24: <Vorpal> <ais523> as in, I assumed that Vorpal meant "literal" as in "composed out of the meanings of the individual words" <-- indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:14:37:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:00:13: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:28: <ais523> <Judge Alsup> In the copyright-liability briefs due on March 9, please include analysis of whether or not the copyrightability of the selection, arrangement, and structure of the APIs depend on the underlying programming language being Java as opposed to Python or QBASIC or other non- Java programming language. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:38: * ais523 wonders what possessed him to ask that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:43: <ais523> and the selection of languages, fwiw +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:47:39: <Friendship> ais523: Today in History: Oracle convinces government that only programs written in or implementing Java are copyrightable. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:48:26: <ais523> Friendship: that would be ridiculous :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:56:55: <ais523> @tell lambdabot thanks for relaying all these messages for us +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:17:03:21: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:17:58:35: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:18:48:20: <ais523> it only helps when it gets rid of a pair of parens +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:21:24:40: <ais523> just heard on a TV quiz show: the contestant was asked what Babbage was famous for (multiple choice), and discounted inventing the computer because she thought Apple invented the computer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:21:56:13: <ais523> Friendship is your middle name? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:00:13:04: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:51:28: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:53:34: <ais523> hey, look what my supervisor did: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:53:49: <ais523> (at least vaguely ontopic) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:57:23: <Friendship> ais523: I like how the page starts with a brief description of what the tool is, then its development history, then download information. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:59:30: <ais523> hmm, where does it say that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:59:50: <ais523> let me try with JS and cookies on +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:00:31: <ais523> hmm, no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:00:42: * ais523 wonders if he/she's somehow missing sarcasm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:38: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:49: <ais523> anyway, the website was made entirely by my supervisor +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:51: <ais523> I mostly just wrote code for it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:02:15: <ais523> (try spotting typos in the EULA, if you want some fun; we just put up what the lawyers told us to) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:02:25: <ais523> (or alternatively, try out the code) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:04:59: <ais523> I am also not inspired by it being made in Google Sites +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:21:32: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:26:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:19:28:00: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:19:45:06: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:14:29: <elliott> ais523: Did he rename it again>? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:15:05: <ais523> elliott: GOS is the name of the compiler, Verity is the name of the language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:15:12: <ais523> and the file extension is .ia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:23: <ais523> err, if you /don't/ accept the license, then you can't distribute derivative works of it at all because nothing's licensing it to you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:26: <ais523> what do you think of it, anyway? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:46: <elliott> ais523: I can't distribute them, but if I agreed to the license, I would be prohibited from even making them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:19:03: <ais523> well, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:11: <ais523> actually, I'd better go home before I miss the last bus +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:16: <ais523> I got a little preoccupied with Rubicon… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:20: <ais523> bye everyone +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:00:27: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:01:09: <ais523> so, to recall a conversation from ages ago, I figured out how to make highlight work together with less and lesspipe +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:01:38: <ais523> just write 'highlight -A "$1" 2>/dev/null' in ~/.lessfilter, and chmod it executable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:03:19: <ais523> lesspipe calls ~/.lessfilter, and if it errors out, lesspipe handles the error itself (by falling back to what it would have done anyway), so you don't have to handle lesspipe failing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:38:22: <ais523> perhaps I should put the gosc stuff in the topic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:38:55: <ais523> elliott: btw, they're counting views of the license page as downloads of the software, because they don't host it themselves and are using google analytics in an attempt to count downloads indirectly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:22: <elliott> ais523: well, I viewed the license page at least twice for my one download (which was not under the license) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:45: <ais523> hmm, you'll probably cancel out me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:54: <ais523> admittedly, I've never downloaded the software from there because I haven't needed to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:40:06: <ais523> Sgeo: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:40:11: <ais523> admire the beatifully well-designed website +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:04: <ais523> Sgeo: it's a compiler from Verity to VHDL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:47: <ais523> right, because we invented Verity for the purpose +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:57: <ais523> it's a call-by-name higher-order statically-typed language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:43:07: <ais523> which is really an Algol variant, but in disguise +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:43:47: <ais523> right, with lambdas +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:44:02: <ais523> elliott: but the example programs are very permissively licensed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:44:39: <elliott> ais523: Did the University grant you permission to license them in that way? If so, why not the rest of the package? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:45:20: <elliott> ais523: How much will it personally inconvenience you if I try and annoy them with this? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:45:32: <ais523> elliott: it's licensed so as to retain the ability to commercialise +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:24: <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Someone gotta pay them so I can use them as a platform for indignancy wrt ais523's compiler's licensing. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:51: <Phantom_Hoover> What's ais523's compiler's licensing? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:59: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a crazy EULA +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:11: <ais523> I told the lawyers about the obvious contradictions and I fixed them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:18: <ais523> *they fixed them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:20: <ais523> but not the typos +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:24: <ais523> it's a licence agreement +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:13: <elliott> ais523: (ii) You many make derivative works for the purposes of non-commercial research. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:47: <ais523> I still think "LICENCE.rtf" is the best one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:59: <ais523> I asked if I should rename the file, but meh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:07: <ais523> I /did/ turn the executable bit off, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:37: <ais523> elliott: what you do is you sell it to Xilinx and Altera for a fortune +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:41: <ais523> /then/ you opensource it :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:55: <ais523> (note: probably wouldn't work in practice) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:52:24: <ais523> feel free; I recommend that you GPLv3 it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:52:36: <ais523> (v3 is very important in this context, for reasons that I hope are obvious) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:29:47: <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:11: <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:14: <HackEgo> 818) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:28: <ais523> it was a rhetorical question :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:12:54: <ais523> oerjan: two, in fact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:16: <ais523> the treadmill on wheels thing is ridiculous :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:33: <ais523> it took me a while to figure out if it'd go forwards or backwards +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:51: <ais523> (forwards if the wheels rub against the treadmill belt, backwards if they're connected to the treadmill's rollers) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:19:07: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:08:46: <HackEgo> 2011-07-22.txt:20:14:13: <ais523> probably a really obscure method involving libraries +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:08:59: <HackEgo> 2009-03-03.txt:16:09:09: <ehird> ais523_: ## is not obscure!! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:10:37: <HackEgo> 2011-12-01.txt:21:31:28: <ais523> (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:16:20:43: <elliott> 23:29:47: <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:16:22:08: <elliott> @tell oerjan gosc is the compiler ais523 talks about a lot from idealised ALGOL (with lambdas) to VHDL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:00:54: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:07:36: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:07:57: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:03: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:20: * ais523 sees no need to continue the pattern +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:36: <olsner> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:16: <ais523> oh, hmm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:24: <ais523> I think I fixed the permissions problem in Web of Lies, anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:43: <ais523> by soft-dropping permissions, and temporarily undropping them in the offending bit of code +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:22:02: <ais523> it's not /quite/ as secure, but the only bit that soft-drops is the control process, the other two still hard-drop +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:22:45: <ais523> should be secure against non-malicious accidents; it just increases the attack surface somewhat for people trying to exploit suid weboflies, or whatever, and who'd be mad enough to suid it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:08: <elliott> ais523: don't tempt me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:23: <Phantom_Hoover> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:37: <ais523> hi Phantom_Hoover +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:40: <ais523> elliott: tempt you into what? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:42: <ais523> suiding weboflies? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:28:15: <elliott> ais523: yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:32:47: <ais523> what I really need to do is get X working inside it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:33:01: <ais523> perhaps I could trick X into thinking it's root; I wonder what would go wrong then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:00: <ais523> is there any way I can get X to just use the framebuffer for rendering? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:04: <elliott> ais523: X tries to talk to the graphics hardware, so... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:25: <elliott> ais523: there's also Xephyr +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:56: <ais523> hmm, those both seem reasonable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:02: <elliott> ais523: wait, Xvfb doesn't seem to be KDrive +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:11: <elliott> ais523: search your distro for a package +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:19: <ais523> one step ahead of you there :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:36:07: <ais523> even better, I can't think of any reasonable reason for xvfb to need root +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:36:14: <ais523> that doesn't mean it won't, ofc +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:37:44: <elliott> ais523: you could VNC into Xvfb or something, anyway :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:38:08: <ais523> olsner: it's what Wikipedia recommends +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:38:27: <ais523> it also suggests using a screenshot program inside xvfb to get at the screen +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:40:53: <ais523> ooh, xvfb has a command-line option to memory-map its framebuffer into a file +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:04: <ais523> that's exactly what I was doing with the fake framebuffer in weboflies anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:07: <elliott> ais523: VNC sounds like less work :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:14: <ais523> so the two graphics methods should be swappable trivially +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:33: <ais523> elliott: using one command-line option to reduce it to a problem I've already solved is more work than VNC? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:03: <ais523> elliott: well, the specific problem that VNC would solve +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:13: <ais523> not the whole thing, obviously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:26: <elliott> ais523: I mean, I bet the file has a different format, etc. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:28: <elliott> ais523: anyway, if this saga doesn't end with you running KDE in it, you've failed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:37: <ais523> why KDE specifically? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:43:08: <elliott> ais523: well... it was still more of a hog than Gnome as of a short while ago +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:43:50: <fizzie> ais523: Someone claims that Xorg with the fbdev graphics driver is doable as non-root assuming it can access all the necessary dev nodes: http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2010/09/msg00091.html +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:16: <ais523> fizzie: thanks; that's my fallback position if I can't get xvfb to work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:24: <ais523> I assumed it would be +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:44: <ais523> (the /dev nodes don't actually exist, but I'm faking them by intercepting system calls involving them, so I can choose permissions arbitrarily +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:45:48: <ais523> elliott: well, it's how I got /dev/fb working +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:45:53: <ais523> it was quite a bit of work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:01: <ais523> fun fact: quite a few games actually run without X, using the framebuffer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:07: <ais523> but you typically get a bunch of graphical glitches +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:23: <ais523> I suspect the hard part's actually going to be emulating socketcall, IIRC X uses sockets to work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:29: <elliott> ais523: right, I just meant you wouldn't have to change your code at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:02: <ais523> and hmm, right, I wouldn't have to change it, apart from loading X somehow +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:24: <ais523> I do +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:43: <ais523> the framebuffer itself works fine; it's actually the keyboard I have the most trouble with, as I can't figure out what format it's in +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:51: <ais523> I was working on a fake mouse at the time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:08: <ais523> elliott: it can, that's what I was going to do if I couldn't get X working as non-root +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:22: <ais523> but permissions checks are all over the place in syscalls, it'd take a bunch of work to fake comprehensively +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:27: <ais523> and it'd also mean figuring out what process X was +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:34: <elliott> ais523: well, there's no problem to keep the checks around +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:08: <ais523> I think the sanity checks are probably actually in startx +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:30: <ais523> what's the most common $DISPLAY value? :0.0? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:55: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies ls /dev/input +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:50:00: <ais523> + pty output: mice\x0d\x0a +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:02: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies Xvfb :1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:12: <ais523> + pty output: _XSERVTransmkdir: ERROR: euid != 0,directory /tmp/.X11-unix will not be created.\x0d\x0a +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:19: <ais523> I wonder why it wanted to be root? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:37: <ais523> well, apparently so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:43: <ais523> but why would it want to be root to do that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:59: <elliott> ais523: that's the socket, it seems +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:06: <ais523> oh, I see +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:18: <ais523> that explains why it'd want to be root for /that/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:55: <ais523> yep, there's a lot of "WARNING: Unknown syscall 102" there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:09: <ais523> and then a couple of "unexpected signal 11" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:11: <ais523> is that segfault? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:18: <ais523> hmm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:19: <elliott> olsner: I don't think ais523 has TCP either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:35: <ais523> olsner: TCP and unix-socket go through the same syscall, which I haven't implemented +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> elliott: I know, I have a text file of syscals +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> *syscalls +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:04: <olsner> ais523: oh, I think you need to implement that syscall then :> +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:08: <ais523> together with timing properties, and why they have or haven't been implemented +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:11: <ais523> olsner: I know +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:24: <ais523> the problem is, it's mostly undocumented +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:00: <fizzie> ais523: You should be doing this on a BSD, they don't mux all socket stuff through a single syscall. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:11: <elliott> ais523: why not just forward socketcall without processing to test it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:18: <ais523> the man page says it's the syscall that implements accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen, recv, recvfrom, recvmsg, send, sendmsg, sendto, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:20: <ais523> but not the format +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:32: <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:38: <ais523> but apparently it makes xvfb segfault +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:56: <fizzie> ais523: I've heard the Linux source code has been leaked, maybe you could sneak a peek. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:57: <ais523> (actually, the segfault's probably unrelated, it's probably assuming something that isn't actually true) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:18: <ais523> fizzie: I have also dived into kernel source quite a bit for figuring out this sort of thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:24: <ais523> but I can hardly do that in a few minutes while eating dinner +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:26: <elliott> <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:31: <elliott> ais523: err, it clearly doesn't forward 102 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:45: <ais523> it warns and then forwards +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:53: <ais523> the warning means it's being forwarded without knowing the implications +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:59:03: <ais523> I doubt it, it's being printed to stdout of the host process, which isn't part of the anonymous fs at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:44: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ ln -s Xvfb_screen0 /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:45: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ convert /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd /tmp/t.png +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:47: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ eog /tmp/t.png +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:57: <ais523> so Xvfb is definitely working outside weboflies +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:16: <elliott> ais523: what does t.png look like? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:36: <ais523> a black screen with an xterm in the top-left corner +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:50: <ais523> there were meant to be two of them, but I hadn't started a window manager +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:58: <ais523> so I guess they overlapped exactly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:28: <ais523> Friendship: the spaces are two narrow for me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:33: <ais523> *too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:38: <ais523> Sgeo_: haha, wow +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:17: <ais523> a/ha/, Xvfb wants /tmp/X11-unix to exist already +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:41: <elliott> ais523: *. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:51: <ais523> ? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:52: <ais523> er, . +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:54: <ais523> I see +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:33:50: <ais523> !c printf("%x %x", ' ', '‹'); +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:34:29: <ais523> !c printf("%d", 0xe2); +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:34:48: <ais523> !c printf("%d", 0213); +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:04: <elliott> <ais523> !c printf("%x %x", '', '‹'); +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:40: <ais523> 31, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:57: <ais523> elliott: someone's got a bunch of binary data they're trying to decote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:59: <ais523> *decode +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:06: <ais523> fizzie: underlined for me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:24: <elliott> ais523: ? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:33: <ais523> I suspect it's a zipfile that's been run through a bunch of re-encodings between UTF-8, and some 8-bit encoding that isn't latin-1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:35: <ais523> but can't tell for sure +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:03: <ais523> the first byte is correct, but the second isn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:52: <ais523> hey, perhaps it's Windows-12452 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:55: <ais523> *Windows-1252 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:44:55: <ais523> nope +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:13: <ais523> olsner: it was copy-pasted into a forum post here: http://pnewman.net/shelter/viewtopic.php?p=11249&f=2#p11249 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:21: <ais523> I asked the author if they have the original +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:25: <ais523> because phpBB is not a good way to send binary files +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:47: <ais523> olsner: see why I'm having problems decoding it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:53: <ais523> I think it was just gzipped +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:59: <ais523> before it went through the copy-paste +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:46:31: <ais523> well, obviously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:59:35: <ais523> fizzie: I'm guessing that phpBB interpreted it as windows-1252 and converted it to utf-8, except possibly where it was legal utf-8 already +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:01:30: <ais523> I guess it should be treated as a literal 8f, then? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:02:44: <ais523> hmm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:03:22: <ais523> we need a windows-1252-or-otherwise-literally encoding +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:05:00: <ais523> right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:06:08: <ais523> oh dear, I doubt we're going to be able to get iconv expanded to handle this case, either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:06:14: <ais523> it was written by Ulrich Drepper +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:21: <ais523> As of Encode 2.12 CHECK can also be a code reference which takes the +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:22: <ais523> ord value of unmapped caharacter as an argument and returns a string +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:24: <ais523> that represents the fallback character. For instance, +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:38: <ais523> fizzie: try using sub {@_[0]} as your argument +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:39: <ais523> no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:43: <ais523> but it seems likely to be +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:52: <ais523> it was originally from a web browser cache +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:01: <ais523> and it has the right magic number +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:26: <ais523> oh, huh, that's indeed possible +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:47: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:12:41: <ais523> anyway, is this likely to be fixed soon, or shall I go home? I need to go home +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:16:25: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:00:47:23: <lambdabot> elliott said 8h 25m 10s ago: gosc is the compiler ais523 talks about a lot from idealised ALGOL (with lambdas) to VHDL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:14:57:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:22: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:37: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:47: <ais523> how's (insert project here) getting on? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:17: <ais523> and have you been working on anything recently? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:39: <ais523> anyway, fun fact about Linux: UNIX sockets don't respect chroots, despite looking like filenames +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:43: <ais523> and, hmm, last week or so? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:04:34: <ais523> if you have a socket /tmp/.X11-unix/X0, then you can't have another socket called /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 open at the same time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:04:42: <ais523> even if they happen to be different tmps due to the processes having different root directories +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:03: <ais523> I was trying to figure out htf a process inside weboflies could detect X outside it, apparently that was how +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:28: <elliott> ais523: start the X as 99? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:47: <ais523> elliott: nah, better, there's a kernel flag, implemented quite recently, to separate network namespaces +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:54: <ais523> in fact, I think it makes socketcall work by itself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:14: <ais523> you try to make a TCP connection and get all sorts of beautiful errors because there's no networking-related initialisation at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:39: <ais523> do weboflies nc localhost 9999, and you get an error message back that it couldn't determine the IP address that localhost referred to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:50: <ais523> because there isn't an /etc/hosts inside weboflies, and it has no other sort of DNS +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:07: <ais523> + pty output: telnet: could not resolve google.com/telnet: Servname not supported for ai_socktype\x0d\x0a +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:17: <ais523> elliott: no, not yet, haven't looked at Esolang since I came online +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:22: <ais523> but that's somewhat amusing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:24: <elliott> ais523: aw, I spoiled the surprise +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:46: <ais523> ah, you revesed the archiving +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:09:29: <ais523> we need a Category:Almost as Shameful +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:10: <ais523> hmm, I think we should ban low-level stuff that works along the same lines as CPUs worked decades ago +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:41: <ais523> because it's perpetuating the myth that computers actually work like that, and leading to worldwide inefficiency as a result +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:44: <ais523> WORLDWIDE! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:49: <ais523> oh, I meant everywhere, not Esolang +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:11:14: <ais523> this would also imply banning x86, but I don't see the problem :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:11:19: <elliott> ais523: I do my part by fuming inside whenever anyone hails assembly as "right on the bare metal" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:03: <ais523> elliott: oh, did you hear about the Linode hack? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:06: <elliott> ais523: yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:27: <ais523> do you have opinions on it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:52: <elliott> ais523: the breach itself, in terms of what was done (just stealing credentials), is uneventful; the security policies it revealed are really bad +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:14: <fizzie> ais523: I suggested bitcoin micropayments (0.50 BTC/edit) for the esowiki, in order to make it a target for such activities; currently all the cool guys just ignore it, going after bitcoins. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:30: <ais523> elliott: well, they also stole thousands of bitcoins, a bunch of Slashdot people think it was an inside job +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:40: <elliott> ais523: the breach itself, I meant as in "the attack" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:43: <ais523> fizzie: 0.50 BTC is actually quite a lot +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:46: <ais523> elliott: OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:03: <ais523> it's between $2 and $3, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:07: <elliott> ais523: "inside job" conspiracies sound right up Slashdot's alley +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:18: <ais523> seems a bit much for an edit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:23: <ais523> elliott: subset-of-Slashdot? indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:44: <ais523> also everything else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:53: <ais523> I wouldn't help maintain the wiki if I had to pay $3 per edit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:09: <elliott> ais523: oh, admins actually /get/ 0.50 BTC per edit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:42: <ais523> from where? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:52: <elliott> ais523: other edits, obviously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:19:32: <elliott> ais523: anyway, the real story is that people would store such large amounts of money on budget-ish VPS providers +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:20:29: <ais523> elliott: actually, they seem to have been acting quite sensibly, all the money stolen was a small proportion of the money that the person actually owned +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:20:51: <ais523> stuff that was being actively traded rather than in storage +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:12: <elliott> ais523: well, I hear figures around a month's worth of money and the like +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:16: <ais523> which leads me to wonder, how did Bitcoin exchanges get so big that around $200000 is only a tiny proportion of the total amount of money they're handling? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:35: <elliott> ais523: drugs, mostly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:22:07: <ais523> yep, wrt organisations +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:30:08: <ais523> elliott: hmm, I'm suddenly reminded of the way that some commonly used programming language (I can't remember whether it was Perl or Python) treats invalid characters in its input, when re-encoding, by encoding them to invalid characters in its output +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:30:23: <ais523> e.g. converting invalid UTF-8 to invalid UTF-16 in a reversible way +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:33:24: <ais523> "I saved that straight from the cache and the [code] tags should stop any formatting. I'll upload it when I have a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's identical." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:33:27: <ais523> binary files do not work like that! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:34:04: <ais523> anyway, really crazy idea: is it possible to get a hashlife-like algorithm to work on a random initial state by lazifying the randomness? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:34:51: <ais523> other anyway: I'm annoyed that X seems to segfault inside weboflies but not outside (both Xorg and Xvfb, which appear to be doing the same thing when they segfault) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:35:03: <ais523> how do you request debug symbols for a package in Ubuntu? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:35:13: <ais523> then all I'll have to do is get core dumps working inside weboflies… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:54:25: <elliott> <ais523> "I saved that straight from the cache and the [code] tags should stop any formatting. I'll upload it when I have a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's identical." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:54:29: <elliott> ais523: we quoted that yesterday, too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:55:12: <elliott> <ais523> how do you request debug symbols for a package in Ubuntu? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:55:50: <ais523> ah, there's an xserver-xorg-core-dbg +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:22:25: <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:22:48: <ais523> my guess is that it's assuming the existence of a file that doesn't exist and not checking an error condition, but it doesn't happen right after a file-related syscall +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:05: <fizzie> ais523: How do you deal with shared-memory blocks? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:35: <ais523> mmap-based shared memory? I simply ensure that the scheduler's deterministic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:42: <ais523> on the basis that processes can't access the shared memory while they aren't running +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:59: <ais523> this will break if someone spinlocks on shared memory, but who does that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:25:07: <ais523> (also, it'll break by going into an infinite loop, rather than segfaulting) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:18: <ais523> yes, weboflies +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:44: <ais523> which is, err, nontrivial to explain +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:53: <ais523> (formerly known as the Secret Project, but it's less secret than it used to be) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:01: <elliott> <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:16: <elliott> ais523: ooh, you should post your weboflies problems on SO, the reactions would be priceless +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:20: <ais523> elliott: you /do/ know what happens if you put gdb and weboflies together, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:10: <ais523> stackoverflow is meant to be a collaborative FAQ building site, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:15: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a program regulariser +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:24: <ais523> it makes Linux programs run in a repeatable way +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:25: <fizzie> ais523: I mean shared memory objects, you know, the sysv IPC style. Those have their own namespace (the 'keys'), and so on. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:32: <ais523> fizzie: ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:37: <ais523> I don't think I've caught anything using them yet +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:44: <elliott> <ais523> stackoverflow is meant to be a collaborative FAQ building site, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:51: <ais523> but I don't see any reason why they couldn't be regularised the same as everything else? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:29:45: <fizzie> ais523: It's just that X has that widespread MIT-SHM extension, I was wondering. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:30:34: <ais523> besides, there's only one process when it goes wrong +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:31:05: <ais523> so I don't think IPC is responsible +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:31:19: <ais523> and if weboflies doesn't have a syscall implemented, it forwards it to the actual kernel +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:32:52: <elliott> hey ais523, can you buy me more RAM? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:09: <ais523> what for? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:13: <ais523> the answer is probably going to be no anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:19: <ais523> but that doesn't stop me being curious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:34:21: <ais523> that seems statistically likely, I wouldn't expect him to have died unexpectedly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:22: <fizzie> ais523: Anyway, can you get core dumps out of weboflies'd processes? It sounds not impossible for those to be gdb'able, depending on how things go. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:37: <ais523> fizzie: that's what I'm wondering at the moment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:56: <ais523> part of the problem is that even if it is dumping, I have no way to tell +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:02: <ais523> as it's being dumped on a filesystem that doesnt' exist +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:17: <ais523> and I can't do something like sh -c'program; ls' due to a ptrace misfeature +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:22: <ais523> that strace has an insane workaround for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:45: <ais523> that I'll probably have to implement some day +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:39:03: <ais523> that reminds me, why /didn't/ I download strace's source, rather than relying on strace strace to determine everything about how it works? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:40:59: <ais523> 3-clause BSD, by the look of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:41:11: <ais523> so I could even use code from it if necessary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:43:54: <fizzie> ais523: What was the basic weboflies mechanism, anyway? ptrace with PTRACE_SYSCALL? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:00: <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:05: <ais523> exactly the same as strace +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:39: <ais523> btw, weboflies works inside strace (but not strace -f, nor does strace work inside weboflies) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:46: <ais523> I wonder if /ltrace/ works inside weboflies? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:45:59: <ais523> nope, there's a bunch of "program uses forbidden syscall 26" followed by ltrace complaining about ENOSYS errors +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:52:54: <ais523> right, I can figure out the IP pretty easily +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:17:10:07: <ais523> I declare 5 March as International Taneb Day +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:17:16:35: <ais523> the connection was reset, basically +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:02:26: <ais523> Sgeo_: it's too low-level an abstraction +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:04:42: <ais523> probably just using functions, why would you need continuations for that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:06:59: <Vorpal> ais523, uh, so how will you do the stuff you could do with call/cc instead? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:07:09: <ais523> using higher-level abstractions, obviously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:08:24: <Vorpal> ais523, I seen backtracking implemented with call/cc in a very elegant way, not sure what other abstraction in scheme would be suitable. Sure you could add new ones but will you need multiple ones or will whatever replaces call/cc be as flexible? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:05:31: <ais523> btw, the GitHub hack is hilarious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:05:53: <ais523> it seems that Rails has a feature that's suspiciously like register_globals +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:06:08: <ais523> and GitHub were using it without proper security checks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:06: <ais523> Vorpal: you're missing the point of the placeholder +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:21: <ais523> it's not necessarily "I don't know what it's called", but "other people won't know what it's called" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:26: <Vorpal> ais523, uh, I was correcting "moneys" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:33: <ais523> Vorpal: it's a placholder +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:36: <ais523> *placeholder +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:39: <ais523> to make the sentence more legible +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:47: <Vorpal> ais523, so "currency units (septims)" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:57:33: <ais523> what is a .plan? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:22: <ais523> zzo38: /all/ the constellations in the ecliptic, there's an astrological sign not named after that constellation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:27: <ais523> at least 11 of them, in fact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:54: <zzo38> ais523: Maybe I should rephrase the question, it isn't very good +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:02:06: <zzo38> ais523: Do you know a better way to rephrase the question? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:02:46: <ais523> "which constellation on the ecliptic does not have an astrological sign named after it?" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:03:22: <zzo38> ais523: Yes, that is better. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:03:38: <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> ais523, so "currency units (septims)" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:04:21: <ais523> [1] probably not, there are probably minor constellations on the ecliptic that don't have names; [2] no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:05:12: <zzo38> ais523: I think all constellations have names because the IAU defined all areas of the celestial sphere as belonging to one of 88 Latin constellations. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:26: <ais523> they're just x̂, ŷ, ẑ in an xyzh coordinate system, aren't they? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:38: <ais523> also, my IRC client renders those combined characters pretty badly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:47: <Vorpal> ais523, uh is that how you write unit vectors? x with a ^ on top? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:29:05: <ais523> it's what's taught in school in the UK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:29:21: <ais523> ^ on top = unit vector, regardless of whether it's in an axis direction or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:10: <ais523> fizzie: oh, you're right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:24: <ais523> it is î, ĵ, k̂ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:27: <ais523> not x/y/z +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:36:40: <ais523> Vorpal: the two are probably connected, if you think about it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:10: <Vorpal> ais523, hm? the two questions I raised? Or the two usages of the same symbol? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:43: <ais523> Vorpal: writing the same thing different ways, and same symbol used for different things +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:52: <ais523> you have to invent new notations on the fly to avoid clashes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:38:56: <Vorpal> ais523, so you are saying 5 different persons needed to come up with a notation for vectors? That is a lot of independent research around the same time finding the same concept then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:39:45: <ais523> it's bad enough, in my field, that for the same notion, some people are using ⩽ for the same thing that other people are using ⩾ for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:05: <ais523> Vorpal: and I'm saying that notation that avoids clashes for one person, will have clashes for someone else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:14: <ais523> people who use vectors almost exclusively aren't going to want to write in arrows all the time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:29: <ais523> but people who use both vectors and other things may need them to avoid clashes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:52: <Vorpal> <ais523> it's bad enough, in my field, that for the same notion, some people are using ⩽ for the same thing that other people are using ⩾ for <-- wow +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:41:04: <Vorpal> <ais523> Vorpal: and I'm saying that notation that avoids clashes for one person, will have clashes for someone else <-- ah, right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:42:28: <ais523> actually, might have been ≤ and ≥, I can't remember +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:08: <Vorpal> ais523, isn't ≤ just a different way to write ⩽? Different stylizing I mean +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:15: <ais523> not always, but yes sometimes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:29: <ais523> why do you think they have different Unicode codepoints? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:50: <Vorpal> ais523, good point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:45:01: <ais523> it's got to be either l or h, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:45:55: <Vorpal> ais523, btw you said xyzh for homogenus coordinate above, it is just that I seem to remember it being xyzw in some contexts (such as opengl)? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:21: <ais523> opengl has sets of four arbitrary letters that it uses for coordinates without knowing what they mean +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:26: <ais523> wait, CUDA does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:40: <ais523> actually, probably it's /actually/ GLSL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:45: <ais523> I know too many GPU-related frameworks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:53: <ais523> so you can address a vector as xyzw or as rgba, for instance +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:47:11: <ais523> there are a few other schemes, they had to use weird letters sometimes to avoid clashes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:47:25: <Vorpal> ais523, um, opengl accpets xyzw, rgba, 0123, <something I forgot related to texture coordinates>A +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:00:06:00: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:14:11:39: <elliott> 18:08:24: <Vorpal> ais523, I seen backtracking implemented with call/cc in a very elegant way, not sure what other abstraction in scheme would be suitable. Sure you could add new ones but will you need multiple ones or will whatever replaces call/cc be as flexible? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:09:20: <elliott> I also have ais523 on my side, so ha. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:41:17: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:42:40: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:43:30: <ais523> hi +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:30: <elliott> Hey, where'd ais523 come from? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:36: <elliott> ais523: Did you sneak in? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:46: <ais523> I've been here for ages, you even said hi to me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:15: <elliott> ais523: WELL HI AGAIN. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:21: <ais523> hi! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:53: <elliott> ais523: DID YOU KNOW they're changing the diffs even more massively than previously thought? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:36:06: <ais523> no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:36:17: <ais523> is that from a recently created article? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:37:55: <ais523> that's a PNG, not a PDF +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:39:42: <ais523> meh, I am not emotionally involved in this change +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:40:37: <ais523> oh, you don't like it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:40:50: <ais523> or you just want other people to not like it so you can feel superior? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:42:42: <ais523> that's because most website design changes suck +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:42:52: <ais523> nobody complained when acehack.eu improved its design +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:43:53: <ais523> elliott: I don't think it does, kerio eventually put an sshd on port 23 in some sort of point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:09: <ais523> yep, and there's still an sshd there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:31: <ais523> he means he put sshd on 23 so that nobody could claim that they could use telnet but not ssh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:43: <ais523> due to firewalls, etc +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:45:10: <ais523> yes, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:45:17: <ais523> Windows XP/Vista, for instance +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:48:21: <ais523> elliott: they come with telnet by default, ssh you have to install +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:48:30: <ais523> and you might not be able to install new software +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:49:06: <ais523> hmm, but they suck for playing roguelikes on +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:59:49: <Vorpal> <ais523> elliott: they come with telnet by default, ssh you have to install <-- iirc windows 7 doesn't come with telnet by default either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:02:53: <ais523> Vorpal: there's a reason I said XP and Vista! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:07:22: <ais523> zzo38: how do you design a CPU architecture to prevent DRM? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:07:32: <ais523> actually, anti-malware CPU features normally make DRM easier, rather than harder +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:08:50: <zzo38> ais523: It is not the CPU feature which I intend to change, but the way the CPU is connected to the other components. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:10:43: <zzo38> ais523: And the BIOS design, too. (For example, only the BIOS can access the hard drive and optical drive.) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:02: <ais523> elliott: FLAC is lossless, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:15: <ais523> by the way, did you point out that data's lost turning sound waves into a WAV? (and did anyone else?) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:26: <ais523> /real/ music purists hire an orchestra to perform for them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:37:35: <elliott> ais523: Yes, FLAC is lossless. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:57:51: <ais523> observation: webcomics often make the "next" link on the most recent comic a link to the top of the page +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:58:12: <ais523> theory: because it makes something interesting happen so you know you clicked the link, yet it leaves you on the same page so you know there aren't any more +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:58:17: <ais523> question: why not just gray it out? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:59:16: <elliott> ais523: answer: styling consistency, ease of coding +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:59:52: <ais523> right, you'd have to have a div that acted like an a +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:00:01: <ais523> hmm, couldn't you make it an a element but just not hyperlink it anywhere? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:00:05: <ais523> href is optional on a +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:01:06: <ais523> well, we've already established we're overriding the color +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:01:43: <ais523> hmm, :visited can only override color nowadays, but :hover can override arbitrary properties (I've seen a site that makes links init-caps when you hover them, and lowercase otherwise) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:04: <ais523> in that case, couldn't you do a pure-CSS analytics thing that figured out where the person was putting their mouse? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:18: <elliott> ais523: probably, but what would it give you? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:23: <ais523> elliott: not any more, there were people using :visited to get information about their visitor's previous sites +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:41: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:52: <ais523> so it's only properties that don't change metrics, I guess +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:10:11: <elliott> ais523: how's Feather? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:10:24: * ais523 /clear +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:11:05: <elliott> ais523: how's the @ implementation of feather? :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:11:30: <elliott> Friendship: It's implemented, just waiting on ais523 for Feather. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:13:52: <elliott> ais523: wow, Esperanza had over 5000 subpages? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:01: * elliott likes to just ask ais523 random questions about Wikipedia. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:45: <ais523> admittedly, that did surprise me when you said it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:49: <ais523> Esperanza really really got out of hand +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:00: <ais523> *Esperanza +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:32: <ais523> number of edits to esperanza pages before they were deleted +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:36: <ais523> probably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:19:25: <ais523> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza is a great but rather long read +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:19:30: <ais523> at least the nomination message +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:20:36: <ais523> the ironic thing is, I'm not sure that an oligarchy is a worse way to run a wiki than the technique used for Wikipedia as a whole +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:21:31: <elliott> ais523: I read the start of that ages ago +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:22:03: <ais523> well, it was pretty insular +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:23:22: <ais523> it was basically splitting the community into esperanzans and non-esperanzans +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:25:50: <ais523> the DRV was hilarious, it was about whether the history should be deleted or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:36:11: <elliott> ais523: hey, how do you use IPv4 multicast? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:36:35: <ais523> I don't know, and am not convinced anyone actually implements it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:38:13: <ais523> perhaps Wikipedia will know? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:43:46: <elliott> ais523: I read the Wikipedia article but it was long and boring +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:08: <ais523> fair enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:34: <ais523> calamari: for a literal "at any one time" that tracks realtime, TMMDLPTOELPAITAFNFAL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:37: <ais523> (I /think/ that's the name) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:51: <ais523> gah, it isn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:06: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:19: <ais523> I was /so/ close +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:47: <ais523> added a D where there shouldn't be one, added an O where there shouldn't be one, missed an A +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:46:03: <ais523> I think this is an acceptable amount of misrememberance of such a ridiculous name +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:47:21: <calamari> ais523: definitely, thanks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:47:47: <ais523> calamari: oh, for a language that works like /that/, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Taxi, but it's not quite what you're describing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:50:40: <ais523> elliott: wierd is BF-like and 2D, IIRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:50:58: <ais523> you're thinking of Whirl, but that's pretty much just an encoding for a BF-like language in terms of 0 and 1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:09: <elliott> ais523: hey, is there any way to preview some edits to a page without all the editing tools around it? (MediaWiki) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:30: <ais523> elliott: no built-in way, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:39: <ais523> you could probably rig something up with JavaScript +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:56:39: <calamari> ais523: yep whirl seems the closest.. not a very interesting implementation, but basically it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:57:01: <ais523> the problem with whirl is that there's no penalty for changing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:54:45: <elliott> ais523: have you ever created an esolang that destroyed the world +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:55:40: <ais523> elliott: I don't think so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:55:47: <ais523> do you think the world still exists? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:56:31: <shachaf> ais523: Why does elliott hate me? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:56:51: <ais523> shachaf: you're insufficiently purely functional +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:57:23: <elliott> ais523: Well, the International Earth-Destruction Advisory Board lists the current geocide count at 1, so I'm forced to conclude that the world has been destroyed at least once. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:57:37: <ais523> Sgeo_: it has first-class functions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:09: <ais523> not sure, you could check Category:2008 for mine +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:10: <ais523> probably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:38: <elliott> ais523: "Probably"? You don't have that many esolangs. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:59: <shachaf> Little known fact: ais523 is the pseudonym of famous esolang inventor ais524. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:03: <ais523> Sgeo_: no, only all points after it was originally invented +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:26: <elliott> ais523: How's Feather? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:42: <ais523> elliott: I haven't worked on it for ages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:44: <ais523> and don't plan to in the near future +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:42:48: <ais523> elliott: hey, you edited Burn, this means you need to figure out how it works +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:45:12: <ais523> night! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:45:18: <ais523> and I know I only ever wrote one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:08:35:23: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:09:55:48: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:09:58:39: <ais523> btw, I disagree with the topic, in that I believe a language can be sub-TC but still useful +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:32: <ais523> useful means it has a use +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:45: <ais523> e.g. +. BF is inferior in pretty much every way to, say, uuencoded text +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:58: <ais523> which means that it's not that useful +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:14:44: <ais523> shachaf: I think it's a push-down automaton, and TC if you're allowed to use files +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:33: <ais523> (push-down automaton can be done using register auto variables in a recursive function which contains no non-register auto variables or non-register parameters; because you can't take a pointer to them, there's nothing preventing you having an infinite number of stack frames) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:34: <shachaf> ais523: There's still a maximum path length, isn't there? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:44: <ais523> you can store infinite data in one file +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:15: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:21: <ais523> or just absolute seeks to 0 each time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:33: <ais523> hmm, not sure about that one, actually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:40: <ais523> might be worth creating a simple esolang to test that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:22: <ais523> let's make it a BF derivative to annoy Phantom_Hoover +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:34: <fizzie> ais523: I don't think anyone really "agrees" with the topic; that's why it is the topic. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:36: <ais523> let's see… identical to BF, apart from instead of moving one space left, < moves to the start of the tape +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:59: <ais523> itidus20: have you ever tried to write esoprograms? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:18:03: <ais523> not languages, programs in them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:20:25: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:20:36: <ais523> anyway, I find esoprogramming more useful for learning about esolangs than esolang development +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:21:54: <ais523> I have new insights less often than I used to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:22:00: <ais523> but it sill happens occasionally +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:22:58: <ais523> I think back-to-start-< BF is TC, actually; you can store two counters in unary on the tape with 1s, separated by a 0, and increment, decrement, and zero-test them independently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:24:08: <ais523> *still +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:16: <ais523> that's quite ambitious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:21: <ais523> are you sure you think in a language at all, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:32: <ais523> I'm pretty certain I don't think in English +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:38: <ais523> I can convert my thoughts into English, e.g. to type them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:57: <ais523> but occasionally I'll start writing a sentence and then realise I don't know all the words in it in English, and get stuck +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:22: <fizzie> ais523: How do you decrement the counter? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:43: <ais523> [>]+>-[>]- for the first counter +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:49: <ais523> [>]>[>]- for the second counter +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:02: <ais523> (this is starting from the first cell, obviously) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:12: <ais523> err +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:17: <ais523> no, that makes no sense +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:38: <ais523> I'm tired +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:55: <fizzie> ais523: When you've [>]'d to the separating zero, it sounds like it'd be slightly too late to decrement any more. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:56: <ais523> fizzie: I guess you need three cuonters +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:11: <ais523> and you always increment at the end and decrement at the start +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:49: <ais523> then, you have (increment first+decrement second), (increment second+decrement third), (increment third) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:55: <ais523> which gives you complete control over the second and third counters +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:30:03: <ais523> and the first is just junk +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:30:54: <ais523> and it still isn't a big seller +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:38:52: <ais523> hey, anyone here know how you write a literal hyphen in math mode in LaTeX? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:38:56: <ais523> or even a literal n-dash would be good +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:39:01: <ais523> neither \- nor -- works +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:40:34: <ais523> I want it inside a mathsf, really +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:40:41: <ais523> textsf, sadly, is not a text-mode version of mathsf +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:41:04: <ais523> and all the predecessor papers have been naughty and used mathsf for things that are supposed to be interpreted as a single word, not a long multiplication +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:42:22: <ais523> oh wow, I found it with a search, it's nontrivial +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:24: <ais523> you have to define an escaped-hyphen thing yourself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:26: <ais523> there we go +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:43: <ais523> http://www.logic.at/staff/salzer/etc/mhyphen/ recommends \mathchardef\mhyphen="2D (and it seems to work) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:11:54:18: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:17:59:26: <elliott_> 10:17:34: <fizzie> ais523: I don't think anyone really "agrees" with the topic; that's why it is the topic. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:18:01:10: <elliott_> 10:20:25: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:18:01:16: <elliott_> trying to fathom how ais523 said yes to a statement this meaningless +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:31:53: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:06: <elliott_> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:15: <ais523> hi elliott_ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:23: <ais523> and what are you doing up at 6:30am? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:31: <ais523> elliott_: I doubt I'm doing the same thing as you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:42: <ais523> note that I /joined/ at 6:30am, rather than being here all night as usual +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:44: <ais523> also, I'm at work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:35:11: <elliott_> ais523: you're typing on IRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:38:03: <ais523> meanwhile, has anyone thought about Underload with /just/ () and lambdas? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:06: <ais523> oerjan: you can desugar lambdas into Underload code, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:18: <oerjan> ais523: yes, i wrote a section on that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:30: <ais523> so, you can express everything but () in terms of lambdas +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:48: <ais523> actually, I also noticed independently that lambdas could be desugared into Underload +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:03: <ais523> but my syntax is x/(y/((x)(y))) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:24: <ais523> making it postfix is more consistent, but harder to read ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:34: <oerjan> ais523: actually () = [-] in my lambda syntax +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:50: <ais523> yep, I know +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:45:04: <ais523> I guess most consistent of all would be (code)(variable)command +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:45:08: <ais523> but that would be almost completely unreadable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:21: <oerjan> ais523: oh wait no, [-] = +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:40: <ais523> not in my case either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:47: <ais523> i.e. x/(x) is equivalent to ^ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:53: <ais523> (and (x/(x)) is equivalent to (^)) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:49:13: <ais523> the null string would be x/((x)) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:18:51: <elliott_> ais523: Should I sleep? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:19:01: <ais523> elliott_: I think so :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:19:47: <elliott_> ais523: You're just saying that because I spammed the channel with laughter. :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:16: <ais523> inded +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:18: <ais523> *indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:22: <ais523> it's a sign you're tired +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:21:08: <elliott_> ais523: No way, I spam the channel literally all the time as long as oerjan hasn't spoken in the last fifteen minutes or so. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:26: <ais523> I find walking out in the morning sunlight helps a lot +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:37: <ais523> I'll typically go for a 1-2 hour walk at 6am or so if I'm awake +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:45: <ais523> although this time I took the bus into work instead +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:35:16: <elliott_> ok im hold vote pikhq_ Sgeo_ ais523 oerjan zzo38 shachaf +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:36:48: <ais523> elliott_: yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:37:15: <ais523> elliott_: and my experience when I have a similar sleep cycle is, that it can't be fixed, but it can be temporarily stablised if you need to do so for some reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:37:37: <ais523> I can stabilise mine with two days' setup, for about three days at a time, until I end up feeling really tired +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:30: <elliott_> ais523: shachaf's vote plees +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:47: <ais523> shachaf: should +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:58: <shachaf> ais523: Tell elliott_ I'm no moralist. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:42:06: <ais523> elliott_: shachaf says yes ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:15: <ais523> 7-8am is actually a common sort of time for me to go to sleep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:28: <ais523> and it refreshes me better than sleeping at most other times of day +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:39: <ais523> even if/though it's probably dark when I wake up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:44:04: <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:12:59: <ais523> zzo38: are you good enough at astrology to answer the question of when someone should go to sleep with it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:13:23: <zzo38> ais523: I think so. But I would require geographical coordinates to do so. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:13:40: <ais523> zzo38: Hexham, Northumberland +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:14:13: <ais523> 54.971N, 2.101W +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:14:14: <ais523> I just looked it up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:18:40: <ais523> hmm, does this mean that everyone in hexham should be awake right now? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:21:39: <ais523> fair enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:37:56: <ais523> the one opposite the sun, but I'm not sure what that's called +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:47:08: <ais523> indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:53:46: <ais523> possibly, but back then, I think it was a plausible theory to conclude that planets just did that sometimes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:54:35: <zzo38> ais523: But shouldn't they try to think of the question, why would they sometimes do that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:55:13: <ais523> there were loads of things people didn't know back then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:55:20: <ais523> still are now, but there were more then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:57:09: <zzo38> ais523: But still, even if you don't know, if you know of retrograde motion, it would seem a reasonable question to ask why they are sometimes retrograde. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:18:50: <fizzie> ais523: I was under the impression that retrograde motion was solved using those epicycles. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:19:05: <ais523> oh, right, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:19:13: <ais523> the problem with epicycles being that they're orbit-complete +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:24:50: <oerjan> ais523: by orbit-complete, do you mean that if you heap enough of them on, you can get _any_ conceivable orbit? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:10:12:50: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:11:39:48: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:11:51:28: <ais523> hmm, tdwtf sidebar is great, they just taught me that the inverse femtobarn (fb^-1) is a unit that's actually used occasionally for non-ironic purposes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:12:17:58: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:12:28:54: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:14:42:53: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:07:14: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:17: <ais523> hey Phantom_Hoover, I created a BF derivative yesterday +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:24: <ais523> although it was in the context of seeing if a certain set of operations was TC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:37: <ais523> it's BF, except that < rewinds to the first element on the tape rather than moving one square +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:35:18: <elliott> 07:44:04: <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:35:27: <elliott> ais523: 4:30 pm or so, so yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:37:32: <elliott> ais523: yay, another legitimate user passed the captcha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:37:45: <elliott> ais523: which means legitimate users are now tied with spammers for passing the registration captchas +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:38:56: <elliott> ais523: why is Ytommyro93i not in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Log/newusers? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:54:52: <ais523> elliott: did you merge them with deleted spam user? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:55:45: <elliott> ais523: no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:55:51: <ais523> also, are you feeling good/bad about when you woke up? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:05:20: <ais523> btw, anyone know why Slashdot sometimes interprets <i> as <blockquote>? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:22: <ais523> I would laugh so much if that was the reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:31: <ais523> *that were +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:37: <ais523> because apparently being tired makes me pedantic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:13: <ais523> I'm wondering if they used to italicise quotes by default +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:25: <ais523> then decided to do an s/<i>/<blockquote>/g on their database +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:37: <ais523> to make them blockquotes instead +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:47: <ais523> ISTR that too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:58: <ais523> and apparently they did it even in the middle of a sentence +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:15:55: <ais523> I don't wrap manually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:16:00: <ais523> except when my browser does it for me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:16:05: * ais523 glares at SunOS Mozilla +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:15: <ais523> because it was a choice of SunOS and Windows and I was trying to run POSIXy stuff +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:19: <ais523> (including but not limited to C-INTERCAL) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:41: * ais523 suspects that this answer is less stupid than elliott might have been discussing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:01: <ais523> wait, is there seriously a major push to name it something other than [[Abortion]]? or is this about subarticles? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:16: <elliott> ais523: "The Arbitration Committee has requested a binding, structured community discussion on the article titles "Support for the legalization of abortion" and "Opposition to the legalization of abortion"." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:39: <ais523> so typical of Wikipedia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:46: <ais523> also, hmm at [[absurd brainfuck]] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:46: <elliott> ais523: prediction: half the people want "Support for the continued illegality of abortion" and "Opposition to the continued illegality of abortion" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:50: <ais523> does that article even make sense at all? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:55: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/absurd_brainfuck +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:19:54: <ais523> I mean, OK, TwoDucks is uncomputable, but it has nicely and precisely defined semantics, even if they're unimplementable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:00: <ais523> Absurd BF doesn't mean anything +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:35: <ais523> oh, right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:47: <ais523> I should really put a caps redirect in my autolinker, but I can't be bothered +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:21:14: <ais523> (there's an URL construction scheme that goes to the article verbatim if it exists, the name in various other cases if it doesn't, and the search page if none of those do) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:21:24: <ais523> (it's intended for use by the Go button) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:02: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:49: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:54: <ais523> <ais523> you mean magnifying glass, not hourglass, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:35:13: <ais523> it's more similar to "wikify" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:35:24: <ais523> but there's a content change too (if a trivial correction) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:41:24: <ais523> it might almost be a good idea if it made some sort of sense +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:41:31: <ais523> but it doesn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:44:55: <elliott> ais523: realisation: I think I took down the sitenotice ~1 day before cpressey visited the wiki for the first time in months :D +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:17: <ais523> oerjan: Haskell has a reverse state monad? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:23: <ais523> I can, umm, sort of see how that would work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:29: <ais523> but not think of any applications for it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:46:41: <ais523> bleh, mindfuck is a different thing from brainfuck and minscrew? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:47:57: <ais523> *mindscrew +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:48:44: <ais523> <Andrew> I just googled “state monad simple example” and this link cropped up. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:52:48: <elliott> ais523: wait, presumably the reason that user isn't in the creation log is because they /already existed/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:52:58: <ais523> that's a plausible enough explanation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:12:16: <ais523> meanwhile, Slashdot are busy arguing about whether the recent claim someone's made to have produced a 230% efficient LED are sane or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:12:49: <ais523> the argument is that actually it's an electrically-powered heat pump, that converts ambient heat to light, and more such heat than the electrical input +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:02: <ais523> quite a few commentors are suggesting connecting the thing to a solar panel to see what happens… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:43: <ais523> indeed, but that's doable with modern technology, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:51: <ais523> oerjan: no, it needs an energy source +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:14:02: <ais523> heat pumps create a temperature difference and consume energy to do so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:14:18: <ais523> now, there is an energy source (the electricity), but it's less than the amount of heat pumped… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:15:30: <ais523> elliott: you know what you should /actually/ do instead, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:17: <ais523> oh, btw, I had an awesome esolang idea in a dream weeks ago, and now can't remember most of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:30: <ais523> (note that as I had it in a dream, it may not follow the rules of logic, or fail to make any sense for other reasons) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:44: <ais523> but I remember that the main concept was that there was only one program, which was a physical obect +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:45: <ais523> *object +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:59: <ais523> and you programmed in it by physically travelling elsewhere in the world so that you were looking at it from a different perspective +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:02: <oerjan> ais523: hey it could still be better than most on the wiki +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:03: <ais523> which changed what it meant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:59: <ais523> wow, now I'm laughing out load at that for some reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:40: <ais523> well, both +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:47: <ais523> elliott: fractal +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:57: <ais523> it helps if you know the object that oerjan's describing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:05: <ais523> now I'm wondering if any of the things have ever been made? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:27: <ais523> olsner: arguably, constraint-based programming does that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:34: <ais523> oklopol-Clue, Proud, etc +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:24:09: <olsner> ais523: oh, that's kind of what I was thinking about yes... sounds boring :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:02: <ais523> now I want one of those, but I bet they're really expensive +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:15: <ais523> and I'd have nowhere to put it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:51: <ais523> btw, I think it's theoretically possible to have a (fractal) digital sundial that shows the date too (not the year, though) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:26:18: <ais523> I have the feeling that they aren't made very much for that reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:26:59: <oerjan> ais523: i recall discussing that previously and concluding that there must be days in the spring that cannot be distinguished from days in the autumn +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:23: <ais523> fizzie: I just found that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:31: <ais523> €91 is more than I'm willing to pay for a digital sundial +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:42: <ais523> it's in the range of things that I could afford, but more than the value I put on one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:29:56: <ais523> elliott: why does that surprise you? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:06: <elliott> ais523: it doesn't, just worries +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:17: <ais523> it was probably inevitable, wasn't it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:28: <elliott> ais523: :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:31:39: <ais523> elliott: I don't even think he's intentionally shilling +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:32:13: <ais523> and nah, ANKOS introduced me to a bunch of paradigms I wouldn't know existed otherwise +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:32:28: <ais523> admittedly I had to find more reliable sources about them, but just knowing they exist is good +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:34:05: <ais523> Friendship: you just made that up, right? still, it's great +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:34:22: <ais523> also, this probably means it's quite easy to determine his password if you know where to look… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:34: <ais523> elliott: you know the Star Trek-related link that you wikified? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:39: <ais523> are you sure it's not actually human-added spam? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:57: <ais523> an attempt to add a specific link in an attempt to make it look ontopic? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:19: <elliott> ais523: 90% sure or so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:29: <ais523> Friendship: not the Wikipedia link +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:31: <ais523> the external +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:57: <ais523> but it's not "Spock's Brain", which is famously the worst Star Wars episode ever +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:38:22: <ais523> err, Start Trek +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:38:26: <ais523> *Star Trek +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:11: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:20: <elliott> ais523: also, the user who added it isn't an IP +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:38: <ais523> I guess I'm just used to Wikipedia trolls who came up with really complex and sophisticated methods of spamming that are about on a level of what I've been describing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:58: <ais523> not for any obvious reason, either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:11: <elliott> ais523: [[List of ideas]] is weirdly WardsWikiish +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:37: <ais523> I like that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:54: <ais523> people should use that style of wiki more often +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:19: <ais523> strangely enough, Talk pages often end up like that on Wikipedia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:34: <ais523> especially if they're being periodically refactored but everyone but the person refactoring is ignoring the refactoring +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:42: <ais523> (as in, not reverting it, just not respecting the fact it's happened) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:50:36: <elliott> ais523: I think it might have been Chaitin who wrote that Lisp interpreter. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:51:06: <ais523> elliott: that rings a bell +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:51:14: <ais523> although I wouldn't have got it without the reminder, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:01: <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:11: <ais523> this was almost a problem in my research a couple of years back +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:38: <ais523> it took me some work to prove that the suspiciously diophantine-equation-like set of inequalities I had was actually decidable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:03: <ais523> and equations concerning polynomials on multiple variables, all of which are integers +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:15: <ais523> olsner: go swat elliott for me, will you? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:26: <ais523> err, oerjan: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:49: <oerjan> ais523: i cannot do that, it was entrapment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:54:07: <ais523> actually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:09:10: <elliott> <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:15:24: <ais523> ooh, apparently I've been on Reddit for a year, for the nearest day +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:16:30: <ais523> ooh, I got 16 comment karma for pointing out a respect in which Emacs and Eclipse were equally good, in the middle of what was becoming an editor war +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:16:42: <ais523> presumably, because claiming that they're equally good at something doesn't annoy fanboys of either side +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:17:12: <ais523> well, it was correcting an implication made by the parent comment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:04: <ais523> oh, the single comment that gave me the /most/ karma was for bashing PHP, but it still wasn't very much +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:08: <ais523> after that, for bashing VHDL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:55: <ais523> were you? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:22: <ais523> someone here got over 1000 karma from one comment, IIRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:28: <ais523> but I forget who or why +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:35: <ais523> hmm, what's the single highest-rated comment on Reddit ever, I wonder? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:21:57: <ais523> oh right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:03: <ais523> was it first post ever, or something? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:32: <ais523> oh, right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:35: <ais523> who's qgyh2? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:08: <ais523> there's something weirdly circular about upvoting someone because they have high karma +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:17: <ais523> and, umm, what's the picture (and is it SFW)? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:46: <ais523> well, it's in r/pics +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:01: <ais523> so I assumed the post was at least vaguely ontopic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:08: <ais523> not the comment itself, but the post it was attached to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:33: <elliott> ais523: oh, and it was a self-post, so he got no karma for it :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:35: <ais523> oh, it's a test /post/, not test comment? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:45: <ais523> also, why aren't self-posts worth karma? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:25:16: <elliott> ais523: because "UPVOTE IF DSKLSDJFLKSDFJ;" and all that kind of shit are self-posts +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:25:43: <ais523> surely making them worth karma would encourage people not to upvote them? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:12: <ais523> btw, highly-rated YouTube comments are often hilariously insightful parodies of the whole YouTube comment thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:27: <ais523> well, by /YouTube/ standards +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:28: <elliott> ais523: no, people upvote them no matter what, because reddit is full of idiots +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:44: <ais523> hmm, right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:48: <ais523> I mostly stay confined to proggit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:27:02: <ais523> and occasionally r/nethack, if we're trying to do an announcement there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:30:02: <ais523> elliott: proggit's comments are typically low-quality but there are frequently high-quality ones there too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:30:18: <ais523> although that's more pronounced in Slashdot, which almost always eventually ends up with a few excellent comments +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:38:30: <ais523> elliott: I thought of your roguelike too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:38:36: <ais523> it isn't, but what it is is actually moderately interesting +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:57:17: <ais523> ooh, now we can run it in the JS interp that's embedded in PHP! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:21:00:38: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:22:25:15: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:23:15:52: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:51:30: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:13: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:27: <ais523> hi Phantom_Hoover +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:35: * Phantom_Hoover remembers that period where he thought ais523 was a mathematician. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:43: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I was! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:45: <ais523> I just amn't any more +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:55:24: <ais523> is there such a concept? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:04:40: <Phantom_Hoover> And doesn't ais523 research formally-verified compilers? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:02: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: not really; I do prove that the algorithms behind the compilers are correct +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:13: <ais523> but I don't prove that the compilers that are intended to follow those algorithms actually do +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:18: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, yes, which is hardly more "pure" than proving $theorem is correct. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:07:05: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: would you call this a pure maths result?: given a set of equalities/inequalities, each of which is of one of the forms (a = b, a <= b, a <= b+c, a <= b*c), and all the unknowns are known to be nonnegative integers, it is decidable whether a given set has a solution or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:07:56: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, well, TbH, pure maths is a pretty useless concept; I was joking before. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:08:25: <ais523> you didn't answer my question +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:10:40: <ais523> elliott: "foundations" = ? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:10:52: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, logic. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:09: <ais523> well, I'm pretty happy that linear and affine logic were invented +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:17: <ais523> or Verity probably wouldn't exist +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:18: <elliott> ais523: logic, set theory, type theory, etc. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:31: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:41: <ais523> I'm not convinced that they're useless at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:15:10: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, they're obviously very useful, because you can't build without foundations, and they're interesting in their own right; I (personally) don't enjoy studying them as much as other things, but elliott seems to be veering towards declaring that they're the One True Path. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:58:06: <ais523> one of the best reasons to use Perl +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:58:14: <ais523> because it has libraries that nothing else has +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:23:24:15: <ais523> oh, I've known about it for a while +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:11:51: <oklofok> ais523: what else do you know that you've been holding out on me? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:12:10: <ais523> oklofok: err, I don't know +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:17:45: <ais523> oklofok: one thing I've been wondering about is if CBPV and Underload are equivalent or not (allowing for the difference in typedness) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:17:55: <ais523> I think CBPV embeds in Underload, but not trivially the other way round +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:26:26: <ais523> I know what you mean +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:26:36: <ais523> partly because my supervisor keeps thinking things are relevant when they aren't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:11: <elliott> ais523: what's context for? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:25: <ais523> elliott: ? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:31: <ais523> oh, I see +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:36: <oklofok> ais523: it's one more than the previous +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:07:50: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:07:59: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:30:31: <elliott> even ais523 thinks it's meaningless, and he invented Feather +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:09:58:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:17:35:34: <elliott> @ask ais523 What is our policy on modifying your own talk page comments days after they were posted? If we don't have one, make one up. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:06: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:25: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:28: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:29: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:01:08: <ais523> @messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:01:34: <ais523> elliott: it's OK as long as you aren't misleading people as to the context of replies to those comments +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:02:52: <elliott> ais523: even for substantial additions over the course of days? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:03:24: <ais523> if the comments haven't been replied to, I don't see a problem +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:03:27: <ais523> although you should probably bump the timestamp +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:45:33: <elliott> ais523: Did you know that dependent type systems are improper? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:45:53: <ais523> hmm, I don't see why they can't use type inference to some extent +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:46:10: <ais523> sure, it's undecidable, but that doesn't mean that you can't infer when it /is/ decidable and leave the program to annotate the tricky bits +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:46:25: <ais523> oh, and ADTs are totally a type system feature (pattern matching isn't) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:00:06:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:07:43:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:34: <ais523> hey, it's Sunday, isn't it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:45: <ais523> I thought it was Monday, I'm at work at the moment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:48: <ais523> because of that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:52: <ais523> and I was wondering why there was nobody here +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:04: <shadwick> ais523: for eodermdrome, if a command has an input set, would it get a char from stdin, check it against the input set, then check if the match graph is a subgraph of the state? or should it check if the match is a subgraph before consuming input and continuing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:14: <shadwick> ais523: just reading this eodermdrome page +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:41: <ais523> shadwick: it only consumes input if it matches, IIRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:14:05: <ais523> as in, matches the input set too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:14:16: <ais523> if the input isn't in the input set, it isn't consumed even if the subgraph matches +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:16:09: <shadwick> ais523: ok cool, and one more question: the ascii art graph uses pipes to connect the nodes, and the nice "initial state" picture uses single headed arrows.. are the edges one-way/directed? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:16:24: <ais523> no, they're undirected +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:17:43: <ais523> it's hard to figure out how to do it efficiently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:17:53: <ais523> although IIRC oklopol tried; I can't remember if he succeeded +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:46:45: <ais523> ESME!!!!!!!!! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:46:46: <ais523> your turn +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:53:25: <ais523> I seem to remember that the Dagoth at Esolang has the comma in a different place from the Dagoth in Morrowind +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:07:10: <shadwick> ais523: I don't see how the example bitwise cyclic tag interpreter code for eodermdrome should work out.. the first move leaves us with the graph "miewehit" and no other actions' math graphs are subgraphs of that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:09:10: <ais523> let's see… miewehit has a triangle (formed by ieh), once of whose corners is connected to two degree-one nodes, one of whose corners is connected to one degree-one node +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:09:15: <ais523> note that the letters aren't part of the graph itself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:10:22: <shadwick> ais523: k thanks. I'm trying to look into this more +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:11:06: <ais523> and byanad buguramat requires a degree-at-least-3 node connected to two degree-exactly-one nodes, and to be connected by a degree-exactly-two node to any other node +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:11:41: <ais523> so the (1) and (0) lines should both match the initial state +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:12:34: <shadwick> ais523: ok I think I see what you mean. I just gotta draw this stuff out haha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:12:58: <ais523> shadwick: there are some ASCII art drawings linked from the article, might save you the trouble +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:14:46: <shadwick> ais523: hah I've gotta read the Wiki article on Graph isomorphism now as well. I'm not very well versed in this stuff at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:15:08: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's funnier as a redlink +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:15:12: <ais523> graue: link? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:16:47: <graue> ais523: hold on, i made a slight modification to make it shorter +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:14:35:20: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:11:56: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:12:22: <Lindrum> Hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:13:14: <ais523> hi Lindrum +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:12:18:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:12:19:47: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:13:14:18: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:13:15:05: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:14:40:52: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:16:05:10: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:16:15:54: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:17:24:11: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:23: <ais523> wow, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html is really out of date +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:41: <ais523> it mentions GPLv3, but most of its comments about other licenses are written from the point of view of a world where GPLv3 doesn't exit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:43: <ais523> *exist +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:59: <ais523> e.g. calling 4-clause BSD GPL-incompatible (it is compatible with v3 but not v2) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:09:00: <ais523> myndzi isn't here +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:11: <elliott> ais523: ugh, ping +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:22: <ais523> elliott: pong +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:27: <ais523> why the ping? why the ugh? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:40:53: <ais523> elliott: insane opinion: all websites should be dark-text-on-light-background, so that when I prefer the reverse, I can just reverse-video the entire browser rather than changing for individual pages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:15: <ais523> why backup just the names? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:50: <ais523> err, typically the file contents are more important than the file names +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:59: <ais523> if the file isn't redownloadable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:44:26: <ais523> itidus21: there are quite a few files I have that aren't stored online anywhere +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:44:29: <ais523> that's what backups are /for/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:46:33: <elliott> ais523: why are you arguing with the debate equivalent of fungot +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:47:20: <ais523> elliott: because I don't pay enough attention to figure out personalities of people unless I've talked to them really lots +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:21:16:51: -!- ais523 has quit (). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:19:42: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:41:11: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: it's capitalised "OCaml", which would have worked just as well +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:41:27: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Yeah, I realized that too late. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:17: <ais523> elliott: hmm, well it was intended as a joke… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:21: <ais523> this is as bad as the esolang/not esolang thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:27: <ais523> I'd prefer to categorise it as nonjoke, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:56:16: <elliott> ais523: we seem to treat direct brainfuck ciphers as joke languages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:56:26: <elliott> ais523: btw, did you hear that someone wrote an underload self-interp? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:00: <ais523> elliott: you mean, not the ()^ joke one? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:06: <ais523> it shouldn't be too hard +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:22: <ais523> in fact, it should be pretty easy +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:22: <elliott> ais523: yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:03:46: <elliott> ais523: hey, is it possible to do a map over every parameter in mediawiki? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:11: <ais523> not as far as I know, unless you know all the possible parameter names, and only then via the stupidest form of iteration +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:38: <ais523> I seem to remember the devs yelling at the authors of {{for}}, too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:46: <elliott> ais523: hmm... what do templates that take arbitrary amounts of data do, then? oh, hmm, perhaps I can achieve this with X-Macros +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:48: <ais523> because it produced too much server load, or something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:57: <ais523> elliott: they cap at an arbitrary number +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:00: <ais523> and yes, it does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:08: <ais523> this is the usual way to do large hash tables +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:29: <ais523> err, yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:33: <ais523> where are you going with this? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:40: <elliott> ais523: trying to generate the [[EsoInterpreters]] table +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:11:16: <elliott> ais523: hmm, I have a feeling this may need more template metaprogramming than mediawiki can support +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:11:42: <ais523> this is usual +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:15:36: <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird/sandbox/data&action=edit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:37:25: <ais523> plainlinks gets rid of the external link arrow on external links, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:38:46: <elliott> ais523: right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:52:11: <ais523> eot the llI (best viewed in a font where l and I look much the same) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:57:17: <ais523> hmm, all the known diff algorithms seem to be O(n^2) worst case +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:57:24: <ais523> so why does diff not take ages in practice? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:58:32: <ais523> the worst case seems pretty plausible in practice, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:58:44: <ais523> (one small change near the start, one small change near the end, arbitrary changes elsewhere) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:01:39: <fizzie> ais523: Do the tools actually guarantee optimal diffs, though? They could just be using windows of reasonable size. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:02:35: <ais523> fizzie: I was wondering about that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:02:40: <ais523> but this algo doesn't seem to have a concept of a window +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:03:06: * ais523 gets diffutils source +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:04:57: <fizzie> ais523: If it's the dynamic-programming tabular thing, I think you can retrofit a window into it by restricting things on the "diagonal" (+ fiddling), though I haven't thought this through. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:02: <ais523> I was basing it on the dynamic programming algo in Wikipedia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:54: <ais523> hmm, I'd need a good academic library to get copies of those +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:59: <ais523> I have access to one, but not right now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:10:25: <ais523> elliott: meh, I can almost certainly access it legally if I just wait until tomorrow +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:17:40: <fizzie> ais523: Also to finish the quotation, "The algorithm was independently discovered as described in "Algorithms for Approximate String Matching", E. Ukkonen, Information and Control Vol. 64, 1985, pp. 100-118.". I think I've read that, or at least some string paper by Ukkonen. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:18:20: <ais523> fizzie: finnish names are reasonably recognizable; I know a few from following Formula 1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:19:40: <elliott> ais523: Too bad they never reach the Finnish line. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:20:20: <ais523> elliott: I know that was a bad joke, but IIRC there have been Finnish Formula 1 world champions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:20:23: <ais523> at least one, anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:21:04: <ais523> nor do I nowadays, although I used to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:08: <ais523> fizzie: hmm, people never write the accents on their names in the UK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:14: <ais523> not even on the official commentary thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:18: <ais523> is it usual to omit them in Finland too? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:29:57: <ais523> elliott: if you're going to troll fizzie, at least make it vaguely good trolling +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:30:11: <elliott> ais523: This is pretty good by Finnish standards!!! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:08: <elliott> ais523: Did you know that Memory Alpha's main page is [[Portal:Main]]? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:20: <ais523> yay! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:34: <elliott> ais523: On the other hand, it's a Wikia. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:55: <ais523> indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:16: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: Next Generation here refers to the Star Trek series? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:22: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Yes. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:42: <ais523> and it sounds like the worst of all possible good ideas, to me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:47:52: <ais523> (well, no, it doesn't, I just wanted to say that) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:55:45: <ais523> clearly an LP that can be flipped around couldn't possibly evolve, because what use would it be to have half a song on the other side? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:00:27: <ais523> what time zone offset is PST? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:06: <ais523> trying to make sense of this Azure timezone bug +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:18: <ais523> oh, UTC-8 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:51: <elliott> ais523: they had another datetime bug? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:53: <fizzie> ais523: Pacific or Philippines? Both use the same abbreviation. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:00: <ais523> elliott: no, the feb 29 one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:06: <ais523> fizzie: doesn't say, but I'm guessing Pacific from context +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:32: <fizzie> ais523: PST was featured prominently in that horrible "round to midnight" discussion #esoteric had. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:03:15: <ais523> oh dear +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:14: <elliott> ais523: hey, you're good at proving things sub-TC, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:38: <ais523> elliott: moderately good +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:41: <elliott> ais523: excellent +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:48: <ais523> although don't mention something like Dupdog or Xigxag, I don't have a clue with those +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:18:53: <elliott> ais523: well, I want to design a language like self-BCT or Clue (Keymaker), except even simpler +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:19:19: <ais523> hmm, I hate TC proofs for those sorts of languages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:20:05: * RocketJSquirrel hands ais523 an onion bagel with sour cream and caramel sauce. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:20:53: <ais523> elliott: and the reverse :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:36:37: <elliott> ais523: hmm, is it actually possible for admins to see deleted revisions of images? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:36:54: <ais523> not sure; it used not to be, but that mat have changed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:36:33: <fizzie> ais523: Speaking of nothing at all (but web'o'flies ~~ strace), I heard resize2fs breaks down if you try to run it under strace. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:05: <ais523> fizzie: weird; why would an ext2 resizer break under strace? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:22: <ais523> only thing I can think of is that it has timing-sensitive critical sections, or something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:38: <ais523> perhaps it should be impossible to ptrace a process at realtime priority +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:41:17: <fizzie> ais523: "Reads from disk normally are never short except in the case of disk +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:41:59: <ais523> I don't see why strace would cause short reads +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:42:46: <ais523> elliott: that won't fit into 510 characters when we run the rewrite script! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:43:13: <ais523> (note: the @ log rewrite script necessarily has to be AI-complete, given the job we're trying to get it to do; it has to delete this line, for instance) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:28: <elliott> ais523: no, no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:38: <elliott> ais523: it is not the rewrite script's problem if you said nonsense in 2012. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:59: <ais523> elliott: doesn't it have to hide the fact it existed? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:45:55: <fizzie> ais523: It was in the context of attaching strace to a running process; maybe that could interrupt a read? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:05:22: <ais523> elliott: Wikipedia used a stock timespan parser from somewhere, which has a bunch of joke features +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:17:45: <ais523> `frink 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 plancktime -> "weeks" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:17:49: <ais523> what's with the quotes at the end? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:06: <ais523> `frink 1 week -> "plancktime" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:18: <pikhq_> ais523: Quotes tell frink to just display the unit at the end... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:31: <ais523> `frink 1 week -> plancktime +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:51: <ais523> oh, changes whether the unit's displayed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:53: <ais523> that's weird +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:00: <ais523> annoying VHDL feature: it doesn't allow __ in a variable name, compilers enforce this +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:21: <ais523> what sane reason is there to ban __ inside variable names? so that it can safely be used as a separator in name mangling rather than using length prefixes? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:38: <ais523> elliott: normally you ban a prefix for that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:44: <ais523> not something that can be put anywhere inside the name +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:56: <ais523> (fwiw, my Verity compiler uses leading 0 on internal use names, as names can't normally start with a digit) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:15: <elliott> ais523: why do you need internal names? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:35: <ais523> elliott: stuff generated by desugaring, mostly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:49: <elliott> ais523: that means you're doing it wrong :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:51: <ais523> also, one of the keywords ("export") works by generating a variable behind the scenes ("00export") +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:36:03: <ais523> elliott: well, the resulting variables have to be called something in the VHDL code! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:37:34: <ais523> elliott: we try to let the user's variable names get all the way through into the generated code +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:37:43: <ais523> partly this is so that the linker works, partly it's to make things easier to debug +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:38:54: <elliott> ais523: I didn't disagree with that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:39:14: <ais523> so this means that when extra variables are added, they need names too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:08: <ais523> this is variables in the functional programming sense +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:36: <ais523> so here's a problem for you: suppose you have the following code: f(x;x); f(x||x) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:43: <ais523> err, I don't mean that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:50: <ais523> f(\x.x;x); f(\x.x||x) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:59: <ais523> now, the two arguments to f don't have compatible signatures +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:16: <ais523> err, you have it backwards; a "name" is kind-of like a pointer or a reference +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:38: <ais523> computer science has a whole load of widely-defined terms +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:42: <ais523> you can't just redefine them at random! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:49: <ais523> "name" in Algol-like languages is like a reference +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:44:19: <ais523> so this needs to be desugared into f(\x1.\x2.x1;x1); f(\x1.\x2.x1||x2) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:44:31: <ais523> (the first throws away x2) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:15: <ais523> elliott: now, suppose I do f(\x.x;x); f(\x.x||x); f(g) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:20: <ais523> and g has the same type as \x.x;x +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:37: <ais523> oh wait, in that case I can change g to \j.g or whatever +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:56: <ais523> oh, still works, I need to invent a fresh name for the lambda that's put around g +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:01: <ais523> in your terminology +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:15: <ais523> so I get f(\x1.\x2.x1;x1); f(\x1.\x2.x1||x2); f(\j.g) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:35: <ais523> nah, it goes from one language to a slightly different one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:04: <ais523> elliott: anyway, the \j.g /goes through to the final hardware/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:10: <ais523> you can identify the individual wires that make up j +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:16: <ais523> and they need names +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:38: <ais523> well, they need names in the VHDL code +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:54: <ais523> VHDL doesn't let you have wires that don't have names +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:00: <elliott> ais523: that's the backend's problem +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:08: <ais523> but I wrote the backend too! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:22: <ais523> you think I should generate the arbitrary names, which are different from all existing names, in the backend rather than frontend? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:30: <ais523> I don't see how that would modify the problem at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:02: <ais523> but then I wouldn't have them the same in the final VHDL program as the original user's prorgam +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:03: <ais523> *program +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:16: <ais523> (mangled, there's an s/_/0_0/g and a suffix to preserve case-sensitivity) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:12: <ais523> elliott: you also have to allow for the problem that such graphs aren't easily represented with ADTs +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:19: <ais523> and the most common way to do so is /to give the nodes arbitrary names/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:23: <ais523> so you're not even gaining anything +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:51:19: <ais523> I must stop asking you for advice :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:51:25: <ais523> how's your own Verity compiler/interp getting on? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:52:00: <ais523> ouch, that seems /really/ out of character for you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:52:25: <ais523> either way +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:53:53: <ais523> problems with school, or something like that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:30: <ais523> not even a Verity compiler? ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:42: <ais523> I thought you wanted to write one with a less insane license +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:51: <ais523> and you presumably wouldn't be targeting hardware, so no need for SCC transforms, etc +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:23: <ais523> yes; also, we've already settled on such a list, haven't we? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:32: <ais523> BF, Befunge, INTERCAL, Unlambda, Underload +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:35: <ais523> did I miss one? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:08: <ais523> well, hm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:18: <ais523> we'd really want to show off all corners of esolang design +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:29: <ais523> there are some missing genres there, e.g. we'd want a thematic language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:31: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: good point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:34: <ais523> preferably a /good/ one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:43: <ais523> Shakespeare or Chef or Haifu or something like that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:15: <ais523> Befunge is not a language that takes well to derivatices +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:18: <ais523> *derivatives +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:22: <ais523> should be an OISC there, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:54: <ais523> also, there's a corner of esolangs with several examples that I don't think has a name, but it stores all its data in a queue or stack or something like that, and is reasonably imperative +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:04: <ais523> elliott: Fractran? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:30: <elliott> <ais523> also, there's a corner of esolangs with several examples that I don't think has a name, but it stores all its data in a queue or stack or something like that, and is reasonably imperative +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:35: <ais523> no, but there was an equivalent language that was +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:44: <ais523> elliott: FALSE is a little atypical of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:53: <ais523> I was thinking more along the lines of Sceql +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:09: <ais523> (FALSE is in there, but is an outlier) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:22: <ais523> I thought so, but now I'm having problems thinking of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:24: <ais523> to the wiki! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:52: <ais523> probably half of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Stack-based +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:01:25: <ais523> Piet counts +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:01:39: <ais523> it uses an unusual source code form, but computationally it's just like that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:02:10: <ais523> elliott: I know, it was a timing coincidence +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:02:15: <ais523> I didn't see his comment while I was writing mine +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:03:06: <elliott> ais523: oh, that's amazing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:11:22: <ais523> hey, remember that one-dimensional MMO we were discussing ages ago? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:11:26: <ais523> `pastlog one-dimensional MMO +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:27:48: <elliott> ais523: goooon +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:15: <ais523> elliott: I can't remember many of the details either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:17: <ais523> that's why I asked +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:28: <ais523> I remember that it was going to give some kind of main advantage for being online constantly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:50: <ais523> some mechanic involving swapping with someone, and you could cancel a swap that someone was trying to do to you manually within 5 minutes or so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:48:21: <augur> ais523: ty +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:53:28: <augur> ais523: thank you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:28: <ais523> augur: thanks for thanking me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:47: <elliott> ais523: thanks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:55: <augur> ais523: for your comment on the typo on reddit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:30: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:40: <ais523> that was your program? I don't have everyone here's reddit usernames memorized +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:47: <ais523> elliott: you're welcome +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:10: <ais523> come to think of it, I'm not sure if a recursive function with no recursive call is even legal in Verity +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:11: <ais523> let me check +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:12: <augur> ais523: indeed. me = psygnisfive +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:49: <ais523> $ ./gosc -S /tmp/t.ia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:51: <ais523> /tmp/t.ia: recursion in input program cannot be converted: recursive argument f not used in fix(\f.c_skip$0) [line 1 character 0 - line 1 character 11] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:58: <ais523> indeed it isn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:02:52: <elliott> ais523: thanks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:03:34: <ais523> sadly, the error message for something like "fix \f.\x.{f(f(x))}" is much worse, as the compiler can't figure out exactly where the error happens, just that it happens +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:03:52: <ais523> (I must write an article about Verity programming some day; the semantics are almost eso in some places, e.g. that line isn't obviously wrong) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:07: <elliott> ais523: link to verity's site? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:26: <ais523> http://www.veritygos.org/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:32: <ais523> which in Firefox, at least to me, is an infinite redirect loop +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:53: <ais523> also Epiphany, so it's not a result of refusing cookies +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:55: <ais523> wow, that's impressive +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:05:25: <ais523> the old name, https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/ is still working +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:05:51: <elliott> ais523: have you tried to convince the lawyers to let you license it under something more reasonable any more? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:08: <ais523> <ais523 to website owner> That link is currently a redirect to itself. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:19: <ais523> nah, because my boss agrees with them, and he's not worth arguing with +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:27: <ais523> besides the license is reasonable, for what it's intended for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:53: <ais523> hmm, it makes quite a statement +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:57: <ais523> it's like the website version of a fixed point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:39: <elliott> ais523: you said verity's syntax is documented; where is that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:47: <ais523> in a file grammar.txt inside the documentation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:51: <ais523> and permissive, it's all in the EULA +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:09:36: <ais523> "(e) Directory Examples can be used, copied, reproduced and distributed without restriction." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:10:09: <ais523> hmm, they forgot "modified" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:10:24: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:23: <ais523> $ find lib -name '*.vhd' | wc -l \ 5 \ $ find lib -name '*.v' | wc -l \ 2 \ $ find include -name '*.ia' | wc -l \ 4 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:31: <ais523> depends on your definition +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:39: <ais523> we're planning to write more +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:51: <ais523> and maybe support .ml libraries for the interpreter +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:08: <ais523> thing that annoys me; OCaml's compiler is not available via the OCaml libraries +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:17: <ais523> it's written in OCaml, there's no reason it /shouldn't/ be +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:46: <ais523> you can't convince me not to do my job :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:53: <ais523> however, I'm not sure how many more or less my job will require me to write +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:16: <ais523> however however, some of them are platform-specific to platforms you probably don't own, and some are very simple +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:44: <ais523> one thing not described in the distribution is the VHDL/Verilog API, which is important for writing libraries in languages other than Verity +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:52: <ais523> it is described in our papers, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:59: <ais523> apart from the naming schemes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:15:10: <ais523> "sharing" = what, in this context? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:15:54: <ais523> yep, let f = \x.x;x in new x:=2 in f(x := !x + 1); print(x) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:16:16: <ais523> (whitespace is irrelevant except for separating alphanumeric tokens, as you probably guessed already) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:16:58: <ais523> err, huh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:01: <ais523> the license defines Documentation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:06: <ais523> and then there are no license terms relating to it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:25: <ais523> I believe that means that its license is all rights reserved, by default +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:29: <ais523> but I'm not a lawyer so don't know for certain +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:18:30: <ais523> elliott: if you read the grammar off a website, would that be unacceptable? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:18:51: <ais523> note that (despite what Oracle are claiming in court), implementing an API is not a derivative work of that API +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:31: <ais523> "By installing, downloading, and/or using the Software, You agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:43: <ais523> ah, hmm, Software apparently includes Documentation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:56: <ais523> who comes up with these definitions? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:20:38: <ais523> ah, OK, the license terms apply to the Software as a whole, including the documentation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:20:56: <ais523> elliott: perhaps I can persuade them to put the grammar on the website, then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:16: <ais523> hahaha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:23: <ais523> they didn't put the quick-start guide behind a EULA +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:56: <ais523> (it's behind a download link, though, for reasons I don't understand; but it's a Markdown file with a .txt extension, because I passed it off to them as plain text) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:17: <ais523> hmm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:25: <ais523> operator precedence is a pain to describe over IRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:36: <ais523> due to notation that would simplify describing it being used in the language itself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:46: <ais523> maybe I'll just explain in operator precedence order +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:53: <ais523> starting at the loosest +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:05: <ais523> so, loosest is lambda (\a.b), scoped binding (let a = b in c, which is sugar for (\a.c)(b)), fixedpoint (fix \a.b); fixedpoint has the same semantics as fix in haskell, except it must take a literal lambda as its argument +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:22: <ais523> and although those are all equal, I don't think there's any possible circumstance in which it would matter anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:36: <ais523> next is pair formation (a,b) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:43: <ais523> not by me! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:05: <ais523> tswett: seems pretty categorical to me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:37: <ais523> after that is the creation of memory cells, "new a in b", which causes a to be a memory location throughout b (and then cease to exist again) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:54: <ais523> oh, it's an identifier +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:00: <ais523> that's array creation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:11: <ais523> which is something else that we haven't added to our grammar documentation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:28: <ais523> and specifically, serial array creation (an array where you can only access one element at a time) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:37: <ais523> btw, whether things can happen simultaneously or not is critical to understanding Verity +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:53: <ais523> that's the only sort of array we've implemented so far +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:09: <ais523> we're planning parallel arrays too, with syntax probably a[128], which would be sugar for defining 128 different variables +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:18: <ais523> no, unless you plan to reject incorrect programs +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:32: <ais523> the interpreter works by passing the code through the compiler's type-checker, then throwing away the output ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:50: <ais523> (except for inferring things like bitwidths) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:29:38: <ais523> OK, after that, is a || b, which is parallel composition; a and b must be allowed to be executed simultaneously, obviously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:29:51: <ais523> then a;b, sequential composition (i.e. "do a then b") +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:00: <ais523> both || and ; take two commands as arguments and return a command +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:12: <ais523> (and a command is a 0-bit integer with possible side effects) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:30: <ais523> then come the control structures: "while a do b" and "if a then b else c" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:57: <ais523> the first argument is a 1-bit integer; while takes a command as its loop body, if allows any base type in the then and else fields +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:03: <ais523> well, it's meant to be practical +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:10: <ais523> and they are, but there's syntax for them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:15: <ais523> to stop people having to write whiledo(a)(b) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:07: <ais523> it actually gets desugared into an ffi call internally, (c_while:(exp$1*com)->com) a b +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:19: <ais523> and the actual implementation of while is done by the FFI +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:30: <ais523> then is assignment, a := b +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:42: <ais523> that's really really tightly binding +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:56: <ais523> and part of the identifier syntax, at that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:33:52: <ais523> after that comes arithmetic primitives, | ^ (left-associative), &, == (non-associative), < > (non-associative), << >> +>> (left-associative), + - (left-associative), * +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:08: <ais523> all have the same meaning as in C, except that >> is unsigned rightshift and +>> is signed rightshift +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:34: <ais523> (i.e. >> fills the left-over bit with 0, +>> fills it with the sign bit of the original number, like >>> and >> in Java) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:54: <ais523> there's also a +< and +> for signed comparisons, which aren't in this grammar file for some reason; < and > are unsigned +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:10: <ais523> after that is ~, unary bit-complement (the same as in C) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:13: <elliott> ais523: you know, Haskell solved this operator syntax problem excellently. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:15: <ais523> after that is !, variable dereference +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:01: <elliott> monqy: better than ais523 solved it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:18: <ais523> then is function call, "a(b)" (can also be written as "a b" if b is sufficiently simple; IIRC it must be a constant or identifier, possibly with a cast) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:54: <ais523> then tightest of all is bitwidth conversion, a$$n where n is a literal integer, which discards high bits or zero-extends +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:02: <ais523> (and likewise, a+$$n discards high bits or sign-extends) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:12: <ais523> you can also put various type assertions on things +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:36: <ais523> examples would be :com, :exp$5, :(com -> com) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:49: <ais523> single-dollar is a bitwidth assertion, which can be used on types or numerical constants +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:54: <ais523> so 0$8 means an eight-bit zero +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:00: <ais523> and exp$5 a five-bit integer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:04: <ais523> exp$0 is equivalent to com +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:23: <ais523> and 0$0 can also be written as "skip" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:39: <ais523> unary minus always requires parens, incidentally +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:45: <ais523> to distinguish between a-1 and a(-1) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:06: <ais523> anyway, that's about it, syntactically +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:14: <ais523> there's also a lambda that works on tuples, \(a,b).x +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:52: <ais523> and the difference between \a.\b.x and \(a,b).x is that the second asserts that a and b can be used simultaneously, the first asserts that they can't be +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:17: <ais523> well, there are three different type systems… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:35: <ais523> programs are written in ICA, but must be valid in SCC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:46: <ais523> and then that's converted to SCI for use in hardware +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:59: <ais523> I could try to describe them over IRC, or just link you to the papers defining them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:42:17: <ais523> here, http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~drg/papers/popl11.pdf +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:42:37: <ais523> that describes not only all the type systems used, but all the algorithms we use to convert between them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:14: <ais523> oh, and it describes the resulting circuitry too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:23: <ais523> except in the case of recursion, which we hadn't worked out at the time that paper was written +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:51: <ais523> well, then you wouldn't be rejecting invalid programs, but it'd still work fine on the valid ones, mostly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:54: <ais523> except for bitwidth inference +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:44:39: <elliott> monqy: ais523&co.'s impure, call-by-name higher-order functional language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:44:54: <ais523> for instance, print(~4) implies that the 4 is a 32-bit 4, at least if you do an "import <print>" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:45:10: <ais523> because print.vhd defines print as being of type exp$32->com +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:45:25: <ais523> and of course the bitwidth of the 4 will affect what its complement is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:41: * elliott wonders if ais523 has monqy on ignore or something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:47: <ais523> I don't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:52: <ais523> just you answered faster than I did +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:59: <ais523> monqy: I wanted to call it ALGOL-11 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:02: <ais523> but they wouldn't let me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:16: <ais523> well, ALGOL-12 by now I guess, but 11 sounds nicer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:56: <elliott> ais523: he asked earlier, too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:23: <ais523> it is very much an Algol dialect, though, semantically +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:34: <ais523> and the syntax is different but based off similar principles +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:52: <ais523> elliott: oh, there's also {} in the syntax, which is sugar for ():com +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:07: <ais523> so you can write while 1 do {command; another_command} +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:31: <ais523> the type system also has var, but it's sugar for something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:56: <ais523> ah, var$n = (exp$n*(exp$n->com)) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:25: <ais523> which means that I guess ! and := could be implemented in pure Verity, if I were so inclined +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:29: <ais523> but there's no way to define operators yet +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:53: <ais523> oh, and the other thing that it's easy to miss is that division doesn't exist +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:56: <ais523> we might add a library for div and mod +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:00: <elliott> <ais523> but there's no way to define operators yet +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:01: <elliott> <elliott> ais523: you know, Haskell solved this operator syntax problem excellently. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:38: <ais523> just by interpreting any random string of characters it doesn't understand as an operator +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:48: <ais523> but that's actually more complex than what we're doing at the moment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:56: <ais523> *string of punctuation marks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:52:47: <ais523> because you'd need to get the parser to parse prio operatives (or whatever you call them, but it's called prio in algol 68) and then change the way it parsed from then on accordingly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:52:52: <ais523> I thought you didn't like state? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:53:00: <ais523> (^ both nonsequitur and strawman) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:53:53: <elliott> ais523: how many 1-pass compilers are there? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:56:45: <ais523> elliott: it's very hard to convince people to use a language where a+b*c doesn't do what they expect +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:02: <ais523> "looking vaguely familiar" was the main criterion we used to design Verity's syntax +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:19: <ais523> I added {} for ():com simply because I wanted to use them for while statements +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:32: <ais523> because it looked weird with () +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:05: * elliott isn't sure "convincing people to use Verity" is a real problem ais523 faces :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:20: <ais523> I don't face it /personally/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:31: <ais523> but I was asked to help the people/person out whose job it was +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:02:32: <elliott> ais523: anyway, why does the language need a built-in notion of bitwidths? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:02:47: <ais523> concession to hardware, where everything needs a set bitwidth +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:03:17: <ais523> "4-bit integer" and "1024-bit integer" are completely different types, the type system should reflect that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:03:33: <elliott> ais523: # +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:33: <ais523> elliott: because it's an operation that people will want to do a lot? and because it makes sense to be able to access the bits of an integer in parallel with each other? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:54: <ais523> (exp$1 * exp$1) is not the same type as (exp$2) in terms of the operations you can do o nit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:55: <ais523> *on it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:05:07: <ais523> as the first is a promise that you won't access the two bits simultaneously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:05:14: <elliott> ais523: people want to do lots of operations a lot, that doesn't mean they have to be axiomatic! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:18: <ais523> not really, that'd complicate the type system considerably for no real gain +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:39: <ais523> tupling is serial, currying is parallel, is the whole heart of the language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:50: <ais523> (c_seq:com*com->com) (c_par:com->com->com) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:07:08: <ais523> elliott: well, you'd need to add empty tuples as well, or else make com a separate type from exp$0 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:07:48: <ais523> elliott: also, you'd need a sufficiently smart compiler to even produce remotely efficient hardware +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:11: <ais523> because it's possible to force individual parts of a tuple +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:18: <ais523> and the hardware would need to reflect that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:34: <ais523> imagine a program like (\(a,b).a)(print(4),print(5)) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:00: <ais523> or (\(a&b).a)(print(4)&print(5)) with & as parallel tuple rather than bitwise & +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:07: <ais523> and I didn't overload syntax, did I? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:10: <ais523> at least, what do you think I overloaded +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:13: <ais523> yes, bitwise XOR +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:22: <ais523> (a,b) means a tuple b +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:25: <ais523> nope, @ isn't used +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:46: <ais523> com +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:56: <ais523> print itself has type exp$32->com +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:11: <ais523> because some definite value needs to be picked for separate compilation, and 32 is nicely sized for most applications of print +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:16: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:34: <ais523> now, (exp@exp@…) would allow you to force individual bits independently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:44: <ais523> and have different side effects on different bits +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:03: <ais523> which would mean 32 potential entry points +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:16: <ais523> which would be rather nastily inefficient for hardware that's O(number of entry points) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:52: <ais523> elliott: OK, so you have a parallel tuple that forces you to force every element at once? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:11: <ais523> hmm, this concept actually exists in call-by-push-value, it has two types of tuples for this reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:17: <elliott> ais523: Isn't exp$32 a parallel 32-tuple that forces you to force every element at once? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:47: <ais523> elliott: well, no, it's not implemented like that, but it is equivalent to that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:08: <ais523> elliott: anyway, this type system doesn't even make sense now, what's ((com*com)@com) meant to mean? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:12: <ais523> (com*com) has two entry points +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:25: <ais523> so which of them gets forced when you force the whole thing? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:52: <ais523> this isn't even my language any more, it's basic call-by-name semantics +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:14:48: <ais523> elliott: oh, in Verity, you force individual tuple elements, forcing the whole tuple isn't something that makes sense +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:14:58: <ais523> and likewise, it's impossible to sequence a tuple with something, seq only works on base types +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:16: <ais523> elliott: it's that way in all the literature for Algol-like languages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:47: <elliott> ais523: well, that means you identify _|_ and (_|_,_|_), right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:50: <ais523> elliott: think of com as being like a monad action, if it helps; that's one valid way to implement it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:22: <ais523> elliott: (_|_, _|_) would be a reasonable way to define _|_ at a product type, yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:50: <elliott> ais523: then, I don't see what's wrong with forcing both sides of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:59: <ais523> because (_|_, 0) is also a legal value +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:17:05: <elliott> ais523: that's fine +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:17:39: <ais523> it is impossible to define (,) in Verity, except in terms of itself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:18:18: <ais523> elliott: so which /order/ does it force the two sides of (print 0, print 1)@skip? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:18:42: <ais523> it can't force them simultaneously, , introduces a serial tuple +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:19:17: <elliott> ais523: left first, why not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:19:48: <ais523> I fail to see how this type system is less complicated than the one with a primitive fixed-width integer type :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:20:16: <ais523> oh, the other reason things like + are primitive in Verity, is that you can't define polymorphic functions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:01: <ais523> from a semantic level, if you write print(3+4), the compiler will generate a 32-bit + for you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:04: <ais523> and use that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:17: <ais523> to prevent a huge amount of duplication, it uses generics in the generated VHDL +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:57: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:22:02: <ais523> it is, in the FFI +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:22:14: <ais523> but + gets desugared into an FFI call +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:12: <ais523> I agree that proper C++-style templates would make a reasonable addition to the language, though; they're mentioned in one of our papers +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:20: <ais523> well, not /that/ C++-style, that would be insane by definition +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:23: <ais523> but the basic idea +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:24:42: <ais523> polymorphism only over bitwidths would be so much easier +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:24:57: <ais523> mostly because VHDL doesn't support polymorphism except for array bounds +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:25:33: <ais523> although, it'd be nice if a parallel array was just a template that took a compile-time param and returned a variable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:25:45: <ais523> now I'm seriously thinking about this +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:26:39: <ais523> you can't even write recursive data structures +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:26:55: <ais523> except by rolling your own malloc-alike, or by implementing them as functions (which is very inefficient for most practical uses) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:02: <ais523> oh, you saw that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:13: <ais523> that's done with a roll-your-own-malloc, and not a particularly efficient one at that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:15: <ais523> I didn't write it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:22: <ais523> that was my supervisor trying to prove a point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:41: <ais523> that hardware recursion was useful, or something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:45: <ais523> I'm not entirely sure myself +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:03: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:16: <ais523> there are so many restrictions on our hardware fix impl that I'm not at all convinced it's useful +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:34: <ais523> no parallelism anywhere near it, mostly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:51: <ais523> also, you can't nest fix inside fix; it's possible to design circuitry so you could, but it'd be much less efficient so we don't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:30:14: <ais523> (fix \f.\x.(f(x)||skip) cannot be implemented in hardware with the techniques we're using) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:30:44: <ais523> and it's a semantic restriction; it's implementing syntactically into the compiler because I couldn't figure out how it worked in the type system and how to modify the compiler accordingly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:13: <ais523> well, we've already achieved more with it than anyone else has before +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:16: <ais523> apart from pipelining +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:20: <ais523> but I'm working on that atm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:46: <ais523> "the catch"? in what? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:25: <ais523> there's a limited recursion value, because you run out of memory for a stack after a while +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:44: <ais523> although instead of having a global stack, which has terrible performance by hardware standards, we have a different stack for each variable in the program +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:56: <ais523> i.e. new allocates stacks rather than individual memory cells +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:27: <ais523> it's done by getting all the state in the program to refer to a different location depending on the recursion depth +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:32: <ais523> including state in control +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:50: <ais523> (i.e. remembering which branch of the ; you're in in \x.x;x) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:34:58: <ais523> λq.(λg.g(λx.g(qx)))(λb.(λk.((k(λu.u))(λl.((kb)(λt.(l(t skip)))))))(λv.λw.wv)) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:35:11: <ais523> took me so long to work out that expression :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:35:42: <ais523> it's of type (com^m -> com^n -> com)^(n^2) -> com, m <= 1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:03: <ais523> the issue was finding an expression that had a side-condition like that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:13: <ais523> that's SCC type +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:33: <ais523> it was hard enough proving that the type system was even decidable in the absence of polymorphism +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:42: <ais523> it is, but it's nontrivial enough to see that that we got a paper out of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:47: <ais523> together with the type system transformations +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:35: <ais523> this is arguably a deficiency of the type system, due to using (\v.\w.wv) in two unrelated contexts that just happen to have similar types +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:46: <ais523> I'm not convinced that ML lets you do that either, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:52: <ais523> (Anarchy would!) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:29: <ais523> it's just you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:38: <ais523> its semantics are almost identical to algol 60's +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:52: <ais523> allowing for the difference in syntax +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:41:03: <ais523> which isn't even that different; they both work on the same principle, just use different names for things +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:41:57: <ais523> oh, and algol 60 doesn't have || +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:02: <ais523> the file extension should really be .ica rather than .ia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:12: <ais523> but what happened was that I was using .ica and my supervisor was using .ia +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:20: <ais523> and we had to standardise on one eventually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:22: <ais523> besides, .ia looks better +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:44: <ais523> well we can't change it /now/ :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:00: <ais523> that was a crazy idea that my supervisor said +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:16: <ais523> he was talking to someone else, and they decided it would be worthwhile for the compiler, and might even replace pipelining +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:20: <ais523> and I had to tell them why they were completely wrong +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:28: <ais523> they'd basically discovered common subexpression elimination +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:32: <elliott> ais523: haha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:35: <ais523> and confused it with call-by-need +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:45:07: <ais523> although, "parallel call-by-need" or whatever it's called could be worthwhile +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:45:20: <ais523> we discovered that it's possible via a source-level transformation, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:16: <ais523> basically, whenever you determine the value of a lambda variable in a particular scope, you start specializing everything in that scope that uses the variable, in the background +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:28: <ais523> and then when it goes out of scope, kill the specializations +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:40: <ais523> and return to the original +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:59: <ais523> elliott: well, think of it this way: \x.print(x+1);print(x+1) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:47:25: <ais523> as soon as that's called, x gets a value, x+1 gets specialized in the background (i.e. only executed once), and you end up printing the sum twice while only calculating it once +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:48:16: <ais523> the similarity with common subexpression elimination comes when you realise that's equivalent to \x.new y := x+1 in print(!y);print(!y), with a backgrounded initialization of y +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:48:25: <ais523> (important if print takes some time to set up before it asks for !y's value) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:09: <ais523> anyway, we realised that in the absence of side-effects, background-calculating things didn't actually cost anything at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:38: <ais523> not even in the need to be able to kill the calculation halfway through, because we can use the same circuitry for that as we do for the global reset +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:52: <ais523> (which is necessary so that we don't end up with multiple instruction pointers at power on) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:06: <ais523> no, but if we do it, it'll be as a source-level translation anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:17: <ais523> together with extra support for a one-way parallel composition +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:48: <ais523> yes, of course +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:52:13: <ais523> why do you think that quickstart.txt contains detailed notes on which things to click in Quartus II to get it working properly? or have you not read that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:53:40: <ais523> someone who's apparently really important came round, and we showed him a recursive memoized Fibonacci that displayed its result in hex on some seven-segment displays +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:53:44: <ais523> running on an actual FPGA +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:09: <ais523> I wasn't there at the time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:12: <ais523> so I don't know +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:25: <ais523> anyway, the funny thing was that he was giving a seminar, and I was pretty much forced to attend +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:35: <ais523> but by the time I got there, the whole room was full and there was no room for me, so I didn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:42: <ais523> and it seems the same threat had gone out to the whole department +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:03: <ais523> it's an xor, isn't it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:13: <elliott> ais523: no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:23: <elliott> ais523: the idea is that you get to pick whether (P & ~Q) or (~P & Q) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:42: <ais523> elliott: clearly that requires state :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:47: <elliott> ais523: well, it's like linear logic, sort of +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:56: <ais523> not really +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:23: <ais523> p :- \+ q_mem, assertz(p_mem). q :- \+ p_mem, assertz(q_mem). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:41: <elliott> ais523: heh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:51: <ais523> it's much clearer in Prolog :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:58:42: <ais523> elliott: something like "X=p" and "X=q" in Prolog? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:58:59: <ais523> either is true, but not if you use them both in the same scope +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:04: <elliott> ais523: yes, similar +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:44: <ais523> elliott: (p, q)? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:47: <ais523> in Verity? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:59: <ais523> you can't use p and q at the same time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:00:13: <ais523> the type system forces it, linear-logic-style +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:01:54: <ais523> I don't know anything about that syntax for linear logic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:02:00: <ais523> other than recognising it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:03:05: <ais523> "⊗" is typically pronounced as "tensor" regardless of what it actually means +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:04:37: <ais523> affine type systems, on the other hand, I'm happy with /those/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:04:48: <ais523> (an affine type system is like a linear one, except it allows you to not use a variable if you don't want to) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:05:40: <ais523> anyway, -> is affine in SCI and Verity +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:05:59: <ais523> (and tuple formation is non-affine, which is why it has the restriction that you can only use one side at a time; so that the hardware itself ends up used in an affine way) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:12:00: <elliott> it sounds like shachaf has an affinity for ais523's type system +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:12:13: <ais523> don't make this into a pun thread :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:13:51: <elliott> ais523: come on that one was awful +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:14:19: <ais523> maybe if I ignore them they'll go away? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:15:08: <elliott> ais523: careful, if you start ignoring everyone you might incur some unwanted affines you have to pay +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:33: <ais523> shachaf: just use a stride? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:45: <ais523> have a pointer and add the width of a row to it each time round the loop +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:55: <ais523> probably not cache-efficient, but I don't think there is a cache-efficient way to do that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:14: <shachaf> ais523: Right, I was looking for something more cache-efficient. :-) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:30: <ais523> but how can there be one? the stuff you're looking for is not together in memory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:39: <ais523> I guess you could use a GPU, where you manage the caches yourself? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:43: <shachaf> ais523: I know. :-( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:09: <ais523> so that you only incure the cache-inefficiency penalty once? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:24: <ais523> elliott: interleaving is nearly always a bad idea cache-wise +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:30: <ais523> no matter what you're interleaving or why +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:51: <elliott> ais523: OK, /fine/, buy two-dimensional memory and store the row-major stuff /behind/ the column-major stuff +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:53: <ais523> unless, on a CPU, the values you're interleaving would always be accessed together +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:20:09: <ais523> dual-layer memory? like a DVD? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:21:29: <ais523> shachaf: I gave a lecture partly about doing that efficiently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:21:44: <ais523> because the person who was meant to give it booked a plane in the morning rather than the afternoon +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:22:02: <ais523> (because he'd tried to book one in the afternoon, been offered one in the morning instead, and didn't check to make sure it was at the time he requested) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:23:17: <ais523> the funny thing is, that over half the matrix transpose stuff had been made moot since the year before +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:23:23: <ais523> because GPUs had got better at accessing device memory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:32:07: <elliott> ais523: "We have to write out binary data, so we use the writeFile defined in Data.ByteString.Char8, which operates on ByteStrings. This is why we need to convert our String to a ByteString first using B.pack." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:09:02: <ais523> a GPU can transpose matrices at over 60GBps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:23:41: <elliott> ais523: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:23:57: <ais523> not sure +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:24:01: <ais523> haven't tried +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:24:04: <ais523> but I don't think it's that fast +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:17:38: <ais523> elliott: I think you can also appeal to arbcom, in the case of new evidence, or simply nobody understanding the previous verdict +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:18:30: <elliott> ais523: yep, but the higher authority is explicitly jimbo +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:25:03: <ais523> shachaf: needs more rvalue references +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:25:07: * ais523 has not looked at the code +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:29:03: <shachaf> ais523: Would you look at the code if it was C? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:29:44: <ais523> no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:00: <ais523> elliott: *(c?a:b) = 0 is valid C +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:10: <ais523> in C++, you don't need the * if a and b are lvalue references +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:14: <ais523> elliott: "deek-stra" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:20: <elliott> ais523: are you sure? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:25: <ais523> reasonably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:33: <ais523> oh, that's the same thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:36: <ais523> maybe not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:41: <ais523> perhaps that's right +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:09: <elliott> <ais523> in C++, you don't need the * if a and b are lvalue references +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:33: <ais523> seriously? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:37: <ais523> !help languages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:04: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c=0; (c?a:b)=1; cout >> a >> endl; +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:19: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c=0; (c?a:b)=1; +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:24: <ais523> EgoBot: 'twould be nice if you'd tell us /why/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:29: <ais523> hmm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:47: <ais523> hahahaha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:50: <ais523> wtf? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:20: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; (c?a:b)=1; std::cout << a << std::endl; +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:35: <ais523> but I retyped that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:52: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; std::cout << a << std::endl; +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:58: <elliott> also, why was shachaf's valid but not ais523's? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:00: <ais523> (retyped again just to make sure) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:00: <elliott> ais523: you idiot +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:02: <elliott> <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; (c?a:b)=1; std::cout << a << std::endl; +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:22: <ais523> oh, a isn't initialized, and b is getting assigned to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:44: <ais523> so why is uninitialized memory consistently 32767, I wonder? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:49: <elliott> ais523: UML, presumably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:35:08: <elliott> ais523: it's effectively a clean-booted Linux system every command +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:35:17: <ais523> but why not 0? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:07: <elliott> ais523: since when is unininitialised memory usually 0? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:25: <ais523> it's more often 0 than anything else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:36: <ais523> or some sentinel value (32767 is not a good sentinel value) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:42:24: <elliott> I wonder if ais523 is not saying "jif" so that I keep talking to him. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:41: <elliott> ais523: Hey, should I sleep? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:54: <shachaf> <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:57: <ais523> at some point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:02:04: <ais523> you don't seem as tired as last time you asked that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:02:20: <ais523> depends on when you want to wake up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:12:50: <elliott> Hey ais523, should I sleep? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:13:14: <ais523> elliott: can you not make your own mind up, this time? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:13:24: <ais523> also, quotes are {{{ }}}, or you're insufficiently Agoran +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:38:59: <elliott> ais523: Should I __ __ _____? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:39:18: <ais523> elliott: you could ask zzo38 to take your horoscope again +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:39:57: <ais523> you know that infinitely redirecting website? I got a reply back saying it was working yesterday +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:41:23: <elliott> ais523: problem solved, then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:42:09: <ais523> zzo38: I imagine they're the same as last time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:46:33: <elliott> ais523: USELESS TRIVIUM OF THE DAY: apparently, WMF developers aren't called developers any more +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:46:51: <ais523> heh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:30: <ais523> augur: "sqort" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:41: <ais523> your typo fix contains a typo of its own +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:51: <augur> ais523: :( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:10:16:12: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:09:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:24:44: <ais523> kmc: is that a statement about in general? or just in Android? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:28:39: <kmc> ais523, it's true in general that you have few guarantees about wchar_t +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:59:43: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: well, it's like linear logic, sort of +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:12:05:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:05:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:31: <ais523> ooh, Yahoo! Mail's POP thing started working again +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:35: <ais523> 187 new emails! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:46: <pikhq_> ais523: ... You still have Yahoo! Mail? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:00: <ais523> pikhq_: "still"? I joined it relatively recently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:22: <ais523> oerjan: actually, few are, I don't receive much spam on that account +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:25: <pikhq_> I see ais523 is computing like it's 1998. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:29: <ais523> and the spam filter has more false-positives than true positives +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:42: <ais523> pikhq_: I distrust them the least out of the three major webmail providers +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:28:08: <ais523> pikhq_: indeed, and I don't use it for long-term storage of anything +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:28:09: <ais523> just as a spool +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:30:12: <ais523> isn't the /main/ purpose of monad tutorials to annoy elliott? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:30:44: <oerjan> ais523: shhh, that's secret! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:13:42: <ais523> I'm not convinced the patent on tapping is enforceable anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:13:45: <ais523> kmc: in the US, yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:14:00: <ais523> but the fact that it exists is sufficient to let their lawyers scare people +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:18:26: <ais523> since when do we get spambots in /here/? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:34:07: <Sgeo> ais523, I've been here for a while. I'm basically a spambot for PSOX. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:35:02: <ais523> I thought we mocked that out of you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:39:02: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:53:36: <fizzie> @tell ais523 Maybe the spammers have been discouraged by problems with spamming the new wiki, and have decided to bring it here instead. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:12:13: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:48: <ais523> zzo38: what computational class is bLOOP? Do you know? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:48: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:52: <ais523> @messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:23: <zzo38> ais523: If you mean BlooP, then yes I know, but I don't know what it is called. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:44: <ais523> yes, that's what I meant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:46: <ais523> and, ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:53: <ais523> I sort-of know what class it is too, but don't know the name either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:23:22: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:33:35: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:55:57: <oerjan> <ais523> zzo38: what computational class is bLOOP? Do you know? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:04:08: <ais523> unary output is easy :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:15:24: <ais523> oerjan: hmm, that decimal conversion code looks neater than mine +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:15:55: <ais523> where's the division by 10 done? I can't even see a constant 10 in there anywhere +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:17:45: <oerjan> ais523: the deepest (!~:^) for the digit list applies an increment to the higher level digits +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:21:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:33:42: <oerjan> as ais523 alluded to, you usually want to do division by 10. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:45:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:47:45: <oerjan> ais523: see logs +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:48:06: * ais523 looks +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:49:18: <ais523> ah, right, it's a decimal increment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:51:10: <ais523> 10 is ::*:*:**, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:52:31: <ais523> err, right, it is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:52:51: <ais523> or alternatively :*::*:** +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:05: <ais523> actually, no, I think your 10 is also a 9 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:28: <ais523> ^ul (a)::*:*:**S(b):::**::***S(c):*::*:**S +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:48: <ais523> OK, both our 10s are correct +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:55: <ais523> oh, yours is 3*3+1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:54:04: <ais523> and mine is 2*(2*2+1) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:54:28: <ais523> at least mine's shorter :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:55:20: <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:02:51: <ais523> underload +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:02:56: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:38:01: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:02:33:44: <elliott> @ask ais523 is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag#MediaWiki_Interpreter meant to look like that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:02:34:24: <elliott> @tell ais523 Also, "The above with comments removed for clarity:" I don't think you understand the purpose of comments. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:33:28: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:26: <ais523> both! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:26: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:30: <ais523> @messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:01:25: <ais523> @tell elliott yes, it is meant to look at that, and the implementation of the interpreter puts junk comments in its output, so removing them does indeed make it clearer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:01:32: <ais523> @tell elliott *like +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:59:29: <ais523> "random access ROM"? so it's both ROM and RAM /simultaneously/? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:00:37: * ais523 notes that RAM is a bit of a weird name for what it's usually used for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:04:38: <Madoka-Kaname> ais523, it's ROM that can be randomly accessed. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:21: <ais523> btw, for fun, I tried reading the EULA of some shovelware games that came with Windows when I bought the computer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:28: <ais523> (didn't actually /accept/ it, of course) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:43: <ais523> among other things, it allowed them to modify it at any time simply by posting that they were doing so on their website +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:50: <ais523> and disallowed you from uninstalling the software +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:59: <ais523> I'd be pretty surprised if it were enforceable… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:03:53: <ais523> oerjan: they also disallowed you directly or indirectly removing bits of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:09:21: <ais523> zzo38: it did, but it wanted you to accept the EULA before doing anything but putting up an EULA acceptance dialog +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:10:46: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: re the topic, we really need to start an esolang programmer interviews section +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:10:55: <ais523> even if they weren't being interviewed about esolangs +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:13:29: <ais523> also, I'm having problems trying to work out who was trolling in that interview +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:13:31: <ais523> possibly both of you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:16:55: <ais523> `pastlog <oerjan>.*\?$ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:17:34: <ais523> `pastlog <oerjan>.*\?$ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:18:04: <ais523> that was 2009 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:13:55:37: <ais523> do you have zlib installed? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:13:55:50: <ais523> and if so, is it looking at the right headers to find it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:14:51:18: <RocketJSquirrel> <ais523> also, I'm having problems trying to work out who was trolling in that interview // I believe the only valid answer is "both of us" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:14:51:39: <ais523> I think so, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:30:29: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Also, are you volunteering to be interviewer? X-D +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:30:51: <ais523> I'm not sure, but probably not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:31:10: <ais523> I was more referencing that Keymaker and I had been interviewed too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:10:37: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: isn't the whole /point/ that he's white and English and tries to emphasise that he isn't at every opportunity? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:12:56: <ais523> that's the main defining feature of his comedy +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:31:09: <Vorpal> (I guess I should highlight ais523 for that question) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:31:59: <ais523> Vorpal: there have been debates over the definition +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:32:15: <ais523> there's a definition that people came up with at a roguelike conference, but it's generally considered imperfect +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:33:02: <Vorpal> ais523, got a link or anything useful for googling that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:33:52: <ais523> http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/Berlin_Interpretation +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:35:46: <Vorpal> ais523, hm do you know any game you would consider rogue like that isn't turn based? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:12: <ais523> Spelunky? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:19: <ais523> I've often wished it were turn-based, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:26: <ais523> which is surprising given that it's a platformer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:39: <ais523> as well as a roguelike +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:37:08: <ais523> everything pauses when you're not moving +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:37:18: <ais523> like world 4 of Braid +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:13: <ais523> Vorpal: you might also be interested in http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=What_a_roguelike_is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:26: <ais523> and ADOM is a really quest-heavy roguelike +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:58: <ais523> ADOM is somewhat spoiler-heavy +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:04: <ais523> also, closed-source +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:35: <Vorpal> ais523, anyway a rogue like definitely doesn't need ASCII graphics. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:40: <ais523> indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:46: <ais523> it doesn't need any single one of the factors +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:57: <ais523> oh, /that/ needs ASCII graphics ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:59:02: <ais523> (or at least, a better camera angle) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:00:51: <Vorpal> ais523, I can't think of a rogue like without at least an option for permadeath though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:01:43: <ais523> choose your own adventure books are typically second person +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:07:55: <ais523> Vorpal: Spelunky doesn't have hunger, but sometimes an area you thought was safe isn't (slow-moving monster catches up to you, etc) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:08:03: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:22:05: <elliott> 16:30:51: <ais523> I'm not sure, but probably not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:22:05: <elliott> 16:31:10: <ais523> I was more referencing that Keymaker and I had been interviewed too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:23:54: <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-Keymaker.aspx http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-ais523.aspx +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:19:34:54: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:19:41:23: <ais523> hi +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:52:09: <ais523> ooh, reading the diff algo you linked me to here, and I think I see where this is going +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:52:32: <ais523> previous algorithm's equivalent to Dijkstra's in state space, and it's doing A* or an equivalent instead +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:53:33: <ais523> huh, the example code is in Pascal +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:53:45: <ais523> with operators replaced with mathematical notation, the same way papers sometimes do for Haskell +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:56:17: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: please tell me that program has a filename clash with the game Pacman ;) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:22:25:42: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:22:42:23: <zzo38> ais523: WEB replaces some Pascal operators with mathematical notations, but it also includes support for named chunks, pool strings, and octal and hexadecimal constants. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:15:14:23: <nortti> it has been deleted by ais523. Does anyone know what it contained? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:18:52:34: <elliott> @ask ais523 Is there any reason not to enable moves for unregistered users on the wiki? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:24:52: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:25:02: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:51: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:51: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:55: <ais523> @messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:34: <ais523> elliott: it depends on if you expect we'll get vandals; moves can't be fully reversed by a non-admin, so the reason they're usually disallowed is to prevent vandalism that's disproportionately hard to revert +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:39: <elliott> ais523: (context: the Basic Input/Output Commander did a copy-paste-move to a new name, and I had to learn how to do a history merge) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:40: <ais523> if you don't expect anyone to try that, no reason not to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:37: <ais523> the method used to be to delete the new name, rename the old name to the new name, undelete the new name, revert to the revision that's meant to be top +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:45: <ais523> elliott: hahaha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:47: <elliott> ais523: that still is the method +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:02: <ais523> `addquote <elliott> then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:09: <ais523> elliott: well, you've been able to combine the rename and delete for ages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:28: <ais523> and around when I left Wikipedia there were rumours that the devs were writing a less awkward way to histmerge and histsplit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:31: <ais523> looks like that fell through +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:33: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:34: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:34: <elliott> ais523: (their edits were limited to changing the language to the new name, but since they admitted the language changed quite a bit since renaming, it's ridiculous) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:36: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:37: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:39: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:08: <ais523> hmm, I don't get 27 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:18: <ais523> the fungot quote is yet again good +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:19: <fungot> ais523: syntax-rules is fairly easy +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:21: <ais523> and I got 5 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:27: <oerjan> ais523: it's part of a series +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:28: <ais523> and I got 5615, 276, 579, 120, 27 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:40: <ais523> oerjan: indeed, but it isn't a /good/ series +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:54: <elliott> ais523: see 14, 15, 20-27 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:33:51: <ais523> 276 seems out of place because RocketJSquirrel /isn't/ blond, IIRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:33:55: <ais523> unless it's a weird definition of blond +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:35:52: <ais523> elliott: seems to also require an italicised word +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:37:55: <elliott> <ais523> elliott: it depends on if you expect we'll get vandals; moves can't be fully reversed by a non-admin, so the reason they're usually disallowed is to prevent vandalism that's disproportionately hard to revert +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:38:06: <elliott> ais523: I suppose there's unlikely to be page-move spambots :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:38:27: <ais523> elliott: indeed, unless they're Esolang-specific +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:50:51: <ais523> anyway, bleh at this binary diff thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:51:08: <ais523> the algorithm as written is still far too slow, also GNU diff doesn't use it despite claiming to +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:10: <elliott> ais523: Did you try bps? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:32: <ais523> I have to write this from scratch, pretty much, NHPL isn't compatible with anything +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:42: <ais523> /possibly/ two-clause BSD, but I'm not even sure on that one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:53:36: <elliott> ais523: Yes, and? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:54:48: <ais523> I've actually been considering doing something that fits with the format +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:55:16: <ais523> by checking what the fixed-length bits and variable-length bits are, and just XORing and RLEing the fixed-length bits +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:55:23: <ais523> and doing something clever with the variable-length bits +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:06: <ais523> elliott: oh, my patch format is that too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:12: <ais523> the problem is generating the patch effiicently in the first plcae +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:14: <ais523> *place +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:46: <ais523> my format uses two bits for command, six for run length +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:20: <ais523> the commands are copy, insert, delete, and bignum (for run lengths larger than 63; its runlength is multiplied by 64 and added to the runlength of the next command) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:28: <ais523> and insert is followed by the individual bytes to insert +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:53: <ais523> I can generate that format reasonably simply, but not efficiently; O(sn) is too slow in practice +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:03:54: <elliott> ais523: meh, that's more complicated than bps :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:04:18: <ais523> elliott: format simplicity is completely missing the point, anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:04:25: <ais523> it's efficiency in finding the diff +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:05:06: <ais523> GNU diff seems to do something crazy involving multiple bisections, and finding lines unique to one side or other on the basis that they can't match anything +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:08: <ais523> and it's way faster than my program, even if I convert all the bytes to hex and put a different one on each line, so it's a fair comparison +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:22: <pikhq_> ais523: It's quite advantageous for people implementing a patch applier. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:42: <ais523> pikhq_: well, right, and I'd need that too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:54: <ais523> but the patch applier is going to be O(n) with any sane patch format, unless it's heavily compressed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:07:04: <ais523> so it's the patch determiner I'm worried about the efficiency of +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:26:47: <elliott> ais523: by the way, I edited two MediaWiki-namespace pages today +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:17: <elliott> ais523: guess what the norwegian wikipedia's main page is? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:33: <ais523> elliott: a matrix of solidity? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:43: <elliott> ais523: no, Portal:[en:main -> no] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:01:00: <ais523> elliott: ah, great :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:02:04: <elliott> ais523: erm, Portal:[en:Home -> no] actually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:02:56: <ais523> this is beginning to sound like a nomic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:39:52: <elliott> ais523: how many people does 82.132.*.* affect? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:40:19: <ais523> elliott: not sure, let me rDNS it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:41:26: <ais523> 82.132.192.0/18, more specifically, is O2 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:41:28: <ais523> the UK ISP +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:01: <elliott> ais523: hmm. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:09: <ais523> not sure if blocking O2 is reasonable, even if most british esolangers use Virgin Media +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:10: <ais523> elliott: I think so! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:28: <elliott> ais523: FSVO "most" equal to 2? :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:36: <ais523> and other people too, because it was wider than just the O2 range +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:48: <elliott> ais523: yes, but nobody cares about croatia. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:47:10: <elliott> ais523: Shrooms man? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:47:21: <ais523> no! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:01: <ais523> what's HashBot trying to do anyway? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:14: <ais523> and why would someone spam #esoteric from a phone? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:26: <ais523> if it dodges the ban, someone ctcp version it next time it's here +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:36: <elliott> ais523: it's not a phone +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:54: <ais523> elliott: it's in the O2 range inside that, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:59: <elliott> ais523: oh, it is? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:00: <ais523> and you were on a phon when you were there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:03: <ais523> *phone +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:04: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:35:01: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:35:19: <ais523> elliott: no, the narrow range too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:39:16: <ais523> itidus21: that'd be SendQ exceeded +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:39:32: <ais523> the difference is that excess flood is if you're sending too much for the server, and sendq is if you're trying to make the server send too much back to you +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:57:19: <elliott> ais523: you're not meant to be able to move the edit form outside of the content div by supplying MediaWiki with some wikitext to preview, right...? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:57:36: <ais523> elliott: not sure, but I guess not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:01:17:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:32:44: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:25: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:36: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:45: <ais523> that sounds worrying +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:52: <ais523> I haven't even been asleep since then! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:38:34: <ais523> actually, I was reading the history in my RSS reader +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:38:37: <ais523> which is normally how I read Esolang +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:40:20: <elliott> ais523 doesn't know the crime of being wikipsychic :'( +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:40:54: <ais523> it was pretty similar on Wikipedia, btw; things rarely took me by surprise because I had a habit of reading the relevant discussion pages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:41:05: <ais523> although obviously I couldn't read every edit to the whole wiki +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:45:16: <ais523> it's only Esolang, I don't really care +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:45:23: <ais523> well, I sort-of do, but most of my arguments don't apply +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:46:54: <ais523> hmm… "don't really" is not actually an absolute opposite of "really" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:51:21: <ais523> it is pretty entertaining, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:51:29: <ais523> although I don't think that's its intended purpose +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:52:24: <ais523> clearly you need Jimbo and ArbCom to ban the same person simultaneously and independently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:52:32: <ais523> although I suspect that would simply just leave them with no appeals at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:57:40: <ais523> "There are 4,507 registered users, but most of them are spambots." +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:58:19: <ais523> elliott: hmm, I remember the case where there were community sanctions on someone, and arbcom agreed with them, then later converted them to a simple ban because nobody could figure out what they meant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:59:01: <elliott> ais523: yes, i realise that a 1:4 article:user ratio would be rather unlikely :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:59:16: <ais523> I was just amused at the statistic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:01:47: <elliott> ais523: hey, you have an anonymised google: are we really the top result for "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity."? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:02:15: <ais523> well, it's still probably going to try to geolocate me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:02:45: <ais523> but we are, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:07: <ais523> a page about Graue is third, and the logs of this channel are fourth +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:21: <ais523> none of the other results on that page look relevant +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:26: <ais523> this is without quotes, btw +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:32: <ais523> elliott: yes, I guessed it was autogenerated +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:42: <ais523> btw, have you looked at the link in the topic? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:46: <ais523> not the logs link, the other one +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:04:01: <ais523> but I have +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:04:03: <ais523> and it isn't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:05:47: <ais523> it had been there for a while +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:02: <ais523> and I trust Gregor to that extent +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:20: <ais523> I mean, he could just as easily put warez and pornography on codu.org +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:25: <ais523> well, maybe not quite as easily +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:01: <elliott> ais523: btw, *did* you have any comments on the featured language process, or are you still reading the changes? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:16: <ais523> elliott: meh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:50: <elliott> ais523: i made the best of a bad situation :P +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:13:27: <elliott> ais523: btw, you need to propose [[Deadfish]] as a candidate. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:13:53: <ais523> no! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:14:25: <elliott> ais523: what?! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:14:54: <ais523> yes! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:05: <ais523> are /you/ saying @lang isn't the greatest programming language ever designed? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:16: -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("before someone mentions Feather"). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:55: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:16:13: <elliott> ais523: anyway, no, @lang is just the least _sucky_ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:27:59: <elliott> ais523: helpful tip to write a wikipedia article about yourself: make three copies of the exact same article with different content, one of which will be deleted as copyvio, contest the speedying of only one of the remaining ones, then post it as a new section on [[Talk:Main Page]] once they get deleted +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:28:25: <ais523> I don't think that would work :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:28:43: <ais523> did someone just try that on Wikipedia? or on Esolang? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:24: <ais523> elliott: it's usual to send three scary warnings in response to that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:33: <ais523> I'm not sure if it's /correct/, or even if there's a point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:35: <ais523> but it's usual +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:45: <ais523> yes but it's like three clicks in Twinkle! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:29: <ais523> there is something kind of horrifyingly awesome about that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:38: <ais523> lowercase p on "Main page"? wouldn't uppercase be better? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:55: <ais523> note that we'll still need a redirect from the old location pretty much forever +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:58: <elliott> ais523: the sidebar entry is "Main page", and the default community portal page was changed to [[Project:Community portal]] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:32:17: <ais523> fair enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:32:39: <ais523> my suggestion on Wikipedia was "Portal:Main", but "Esolang:Main" doesn't make sense +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:04: <ais523> actually, my real preferred solution was to rename it to the null string +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:09: <ais523> but apparently MediaWiki doesn't support that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:48: <ais523> it's kind-of ugly even without the Esolang: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:17: <ais523> and it fails with any other PHPSESSID? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:28: <ais523> or just redirects you to the correct one :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:28: <elliott> ais523: naturally; load.pl is a load balancer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:35: <elliott> ais523: the PHPSESSID is the session of the proxy server +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:14: <ais523> elliott: gah, we have a debugger like that that we're using for our GPU programming +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:26: <ais523> only one person across the whole department can debug a GPU program at a time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:43: <ais523> not a licensing restriction, it's a complicated technical restriction +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:56: <ais523> I guess you could use screen or something to do that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:10: <ais523> this gives you a perfect excuse to procrastinate! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:38: <ais523> elliott: oh, . is string concatenation there? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:49: <ais523> I thought it was method invocation for a moment +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:54: <ais523> which would have been awesome but worrying +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:24: <ais523> now I want a language that lets you call methods ? and isn't Smalltalk-like +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:33: <ais523> (doing it in Smalltalk is too easy) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:37: <ais523> I guess JavaScript does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:45:03: <ais523> and Lua lets you define them, but I'm not sure offhand if there's any way to call them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:08: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:11: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:45: -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:48: <ais523> how can you tell? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:53: <elliott> ais523: http://conservapedia.com/Special:Version +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:54:03: <ais523> also, I'm guessing you somehow managed to make all links not show up? or edited them out of the page? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:43: <elliott> ais523: hey, when's Eurovision? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:53: <ais523> I don't know; Wikipedia probably does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:55: <ais523> it's a good question +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:21: <ais523> 26 may is the final +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:26: <ais523> 22 and 24 may are the semifinals +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:29: <ais523> just looked it up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:42: <elliott> ais523: Thanks, I was looking for a FINNISH QUALITY ANSWER though. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:53: <ais523> it's after NetHack Apocalypse Day, which I really need to prepare for +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:16: <ais523> elliott: it's a secret that isn't really all that secret, and I invented the name for it just now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:25: <ais523> but we're planning it for april 1 so that nobody believes it when it happens +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:32: <ais523> and so that we can back out of it really easily +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:02: <ais523> (fun fact: you can back out of pretty much anything that isn't illegal if you do it on april 1) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:13: <elliott> ais523: nitrohack is being released as nethack 4.0.0? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:43: <ais523> yes, but it's more complex than that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:49: <ais523> and requires the coordination of quite a lot of people +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:57: <elliott> ais523: "...without the devteam's consent"? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:59: <ais523> well, 3 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:01:06: <ais523> but that's more than we managed last year +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:01:17: <ais523> I haven't even finished merging NiceHack yet, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:02:53: <ais523> silence of reading another window, pinging me helps if you want a quick answer +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:03:21: <ais523> and my solution, unlike daniel_t's, is to say that I'm supporting a small set of platforms to start with just to get something moving, and willing to expand as people willing to test and send in patches are found +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:03:37: <ais523> this viewpoint is actually probably equivalent to his, but less controversial +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:04:15: <ais523> oh, we're not getting their consent for this +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:04:41: <ais523> you know what we really need? someone at Debian to mistake it for not an april fool's thing and package it up +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:07: <ais523> they package INTERCAL! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:41: <ais523> and as long as it hits testing with the new major version, they can't subsequently reduce the major version number +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:55: <ais523> they'd either have to add a majorer version number to let them drop it back down to 3.4.3, or lie and call it 4.4.3 or something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:08:02: <ais523> well, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:10:19: <ais523> we might go onto a coup +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:10:24: <ais523> if the april 1 thing is well-received +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:12:51: <elliott> ais523: Can you fix this hook? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:13:03: <ais523> it's in PHP, so no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:13:10: <ais523> not in my current state of tiredness +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:16:05: <elliott> ais523: tell past elliott he's a moron +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:16:30: <ais523> elliott: I'm no good at retroactive IRC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:21:08: <ais523> for any particular reason? or by mistake? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:22:58: <elliott> ais523: oh dear, now I'm getting annoyed at /w/ URLs too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:38:11: <ais523> arguments in a different order, perhaps? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:39:30: <ais523> they aren't really globals +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:40:16: <ais523> yep +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:41:50: <elliott> ais523: btw, the reason /wiki/ was redirecting to /wiki/Main_Page is that I configured nginx to do that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:47:31: <elliott> ais523: fizzie: group-ping +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:47:49: <ais523> pong +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:49:18: <ais523> hmm, interesting +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:50:45: <ais523> well, it's a channel that was spun off in order to deflect away offtopic material +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:50:55: <ais523> hmm, does #irp count along the same lines? it's basically just a honeypot for Reddit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:23: <ais523> probably just #esoteric +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:31: <ais523> do we care about #esoteric-offtopic or #esoteric-blah? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:31: <elliott> hmm, it asks for your role in the project, and suggests you should be senior; if the URL is esolangs.org, that suggests ais523 should do it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:44: <elliott> ais523: i doubt it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:36: <elliott> ais523: oh dear, after all that effort, MediaWiki thwarts me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:38: <ais523> exploration of insufficiently explored theories of programming language design +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:52: <ais523> I can make it sound relevant and ontopic when I need to! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:54:03: <ais523> can you patch that check out? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:54:29: <elliott> ais523: also, that's not relevant and on-topic, strictly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:55:03: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:55:11: <ais523> I was thinking from the academic point of view +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:38: <ais523> elliott: you filling it out seems reasonable, as long as enough of the other people who help to run this channel agree +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:49: <ais523> based on their rules for who should be primary contact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:59: <ais523> besides, it uses recaptcha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:14: <elliott> ais523: err, I doubt someone who isn't an op would be considered a good contact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:31: <ais523> oh dear… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:36: <ais523> and yes, good point +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:53: <ais523> should probably be fizzie as senior op, then +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:06: <ais523> oerjan was opped recently enough that chanserv remembers whne it happened, as was I +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:11: <elliott> ais523: well, the thing is that they use the URL to verify the claim +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:54: <ais523> don't you need to be a server admin anyway, for the confirmation? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:11: <ais523> it's not completely implausible that a community might want separation of powers between their website and IRC channel, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:16: <elliott> ais523: I don't think it's a "put this HTML thing on your website" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:56: <elliott> ais523: it would be really convenient to own esoteric.<tld> for this... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:59: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:00:19: <ais523> if there's a human involved, we can explain easily enough +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:01:09: <elliott> ais523: and yes, but this is /freenode/, that'll slow it down by ten years +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:01:50: <ais523> who runs the esolang mailing list on sange.fi? and does it still exist? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:06: <ais523> elliott: why? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:11: <ais523> it'd help avoid confusion +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:14: <elliott> ais523: because that defeats the whole point? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:19: <ais523> what whole point? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:30: <ais523> #esolang is probably a better name, come to think of it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:05:02: <ais523> well, esolang is a contraction for "esoteric language", and we thought the language was redundant as we're on Freenode +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:06:07: <ais523> elliott: I'm projecting +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:12: <elliott> ais523: I'm an op now, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:31: <ais523> too tired to consider the merits of opping or otherwise someone right now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:41: <ais523> btw, you're starting to remind me uncomfortably of kerio +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:47: <shachaf> ais523: Making elliott an op would be the biggest mistake you could ever make. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:54: <elliott> ais523: excellent, the less thoughtful you are the more likely you'll op me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:56: <ais523> who among other things keeps continuously nagging me to fill out GRFs for AceHack +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:17: <ais523> he /is/ opped in #acehack, but we have the settings such that he can't deal too much damage +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:28: <elliott> ais523: I thought AceHack was busy being deconstructed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:31: <ais523> group registration form +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:46: <ais523> elliott: it's being merged with nitrohack, which is typically discussed in #unnethack (and sometimes #acehack) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:55: <ais523> but channels all have their own communities +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:10:16: <ais523> #unnethack's become the de-facto channel for discussing variants as a set (as opposed to particular variants) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:10:49: <ais523> haha, there is, but nobody's there but kerio +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:11:10: <ais523> and #grunthack was created really recently, mostly to have a place to put the announcebot +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:11:33: <elliott> ais523: am I an op yet? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:08: <elliott> it says yes ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:15: <ais523> elliott: you can ask chanserv, probably faster than getting a response from me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:21: <shachaf> ais523: Make elliott a nop. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:22: <ais523> shachaf: please tell me you just registered that :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:29: <elliott> but it also says ais523 has to make me into an op before i can use it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:53: <ais523> No match for "ISELLIOTTANOPYET.COM". +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:57: <shachaf> ais523: Nope, it's free. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:34: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:36: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:37: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:39: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:40: <ais523> `quote +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:47: <HackEgo> 92) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:51: <ais523> shall I delete a good one to make room for it? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:55: <HackEgo> 449) <ais523> the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:06: <ais523> gah, I meant "than 1s" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:21: <ais523> OK, I agree with that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:26: <ais523> deleting 86, that is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:00: <ais523> also, 92 is /my/ pet 825 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:07: <ais523> shachaf: it's numbered 825 now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:37: <ais523> elliott: does that actually go back 105 revisions? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:42: <elliott> ais523: no, it goes back to revision 105 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:45: <ais523> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:16:39: <ais523> `touch UNDELETE.EXE +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:17:38: <ais523> `run echo now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely >> canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:17:44: <ais523> although not really /that/ hard +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:18:20: <ais523> fun fact: the only reason canary was empty beforehand was that it used to say that and someone decided to test it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:18:24: <ais523> (note: may not be a true fact) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:00: <ais523> `cat canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:17: <ais523> I think we need something in there about a canary's typical reaction to a cat (which is based on a cat's typical reaction to a canary) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:28: <ais523> `rm canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:36: <ais523> `cat canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:41: <ais523> still is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:44: <ais523> can't delete canary :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:13: <ais523> `run rm canary && mkdir canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:19: <ais523> `cat canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:30: <ais523> huh? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:33: <elliott> ais523: hg doesn't track empty directories +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:49: <ais523> `cat foo +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:58: <ais523> awesome +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:35: <ais523> elliott: isn't he called RocketJSquirrel? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:39: <elliott> @tell Gregor http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:43: * ais523 demands he changes back to Friendship +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:23: <ais523> I was wondering about doing that, but decided against it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:49: <shachaf> ais523: Is ais523 your real name? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:51: <ais523> you know that at least one of those is very likely to end up ending with no messages? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:57: <ais523> shachaf: what do you consider to be a real name? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:03: <elliott> ais523: the idea is that all of them get cleared +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:06: <shachaf> ais523: Or is your real name "(this is obviously not my real name)"? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:12: <shachaf> ais523: How should I know? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:16: <ais523> shachaf: that obviously isn't my real name +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:26:02: <ais523> did I say they were the same? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:26:28: <ais523> and did I say that you said that I said they were the same? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:13: <ais523> `pastlog you said that I said +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:17: <ais523> now we have to check! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:54: <ais523> shachaf: I don't think I've ever talked to you in not-public +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:05: <ais523> oh, apparently I have +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:12: <ais523> just the one line, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:18: <ais523> it was related to #vacuum +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:41: <ais523> gah, literal facepalm +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:10: <ais523> elliott: did you just tell shachaf to persuade me to go there without telling him what it was called? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:18: <ais523> because according to client history, he never mentioned the nam +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:20: <ais523> *name +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:24: <ais523> admittedly, that would be hilarious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:28: <elliott> ais523: I have no idea what you're talking about. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:52: * ais523 is unsure if he wants to believe that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:30:17: <ais523> indeed it is registered; ChanServ wouldn't let me see its access list +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:30:24: <ais523> which implies that someone owns it to be able to configure it to do that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:22: <ais523> elliott: remember #<redacted>? it was agora-related, also it wasn't a cow, nor not a cow +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:42: <elliott> ais523: FUCK YOU RUINED MY FUCKING TOWER JEEZ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:47: <elliott> ais523: Does it start with an a and end with an oecabal? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:51: <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:07: <elliott> ais523: apointlessshoecabal? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:07: <ais523> it's almost as locked-down as #vacuum nowadays +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:15: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:48:26: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:49:26: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:51:20: <ais523> oh, btw, CFJ 2613 was awesome +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:51:28: <ais523> such a pity the judge didn't take it seriously +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:57:41: <oerjan> elliott: you do realize ais523 is also an op? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:08:56: <elliott> ais523: HE PROPOSED RELAXING THE POLICY +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:09:11: <ais523> elliott: calm down! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:09:31: <ais523> clearly, it should be [[Tanner L. Swett]] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:10:48: <elliott> ais523: it would actually be [[Ivan Hope Stupidromannumerals]] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:11:38: <ais523> wait, you mean it isn't his real name? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:15:47: * ais523 suggests an FAC +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:01: <elliott> ais523: /an/? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:05: <ais523> elliott: hmm, isn't the article about Graue at [[Catatonic Porpoise]] +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:10: <elliott> ais523: hey, you broke the rules! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:15: <ais523> elliott: "an" is correct if you don't expand the acronym +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:18: <ais523> and in what way? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:28: <elliott> ais523: oh, oops +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:33: <elliott> ais523: correction, I wrote the rules wrong +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:46: <ais523> so go fix them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:17:05: <ais523> elliott: what did you intend to make a rule that you didn't? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:09: <ais523> elliott: oh, you did omit the signature; I went and edited the rules to require it when I made the suggestion >:) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:20: <elliott> oerjan: kick ais523, pls +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:45: <ais523> elliott: how else can someone quickly check that they haven't nominated a different language? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:52: <ais523> we can delete the sigs before judging +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:57: <elliott> ais523: but they could just fake a signature! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:20:20: <elliott> ais523: btw, since you weren't around for the discussion, I came up with this system so that (a) people didn't have to suggest things _regularly_ i.e. there's no point expiring something just because it was proposed and not chosen last $timespan, +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:20:48: <ais523> elliott: indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:21:03: <ais523> anyway, I think it's worth having all the paradigm classics featured that aren't brainfuck +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:21:33: <ais523> heh, indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:22:35: <elliott> ais523: I agree that paradigm classics should be featured, but I also think devoting the first like 7 timespans to the classics would be a bad idea +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:25:36: <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:32:48: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:35:30: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime. <-- er.... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:38:51: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:39:57: <ais523> not sure +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:03: <ais523> I'm not even convinced it was intended as a tarpit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:16: <ais523> (especially given that it has several instructions that are clearly redundant, like i and v) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:26: <ais523> it was just intended as a functional language without lambda +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:31: <ais523> a job which it succeeds at admirably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:43:10: <ais523> yep, and I might add a section on programming in it (or rather, relambda) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:47:29: <elliott> ais523: thanks for that fix, the process used to be on the featured languages page itsel +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:48:13: <ais523> have the Pirate Bay decided that what they're doing is actually illegal yet? or are they just wondering why the police keep trying to shut them down? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:49:27: <fizzie> ais523: "We think that the investigation is interesting considering nothing that TPB does is illegal." --2012-03-09 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:49:37: <ais523> and that's pretty recent +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:12: <elliott> ais523: btw, why is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Featured_languages empty? [[:///]] is in it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:13: <ais523> elliott: oh, I don't think they're doing anything illegal either; and yet people are trying so hard to get rid of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:43: <elliott> ais523: well, the torrents they offer nowadays are DHT-based. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:50: <ais523> that's bizarre +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:52: <elliott> ais523: you can't raid a distributed hash table. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:35: <elliott> ais523: if it matters, the category is from a template +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:45: <ais523> oh, that /might/ matter +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:49: <ais523> are you running the job queue? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:52:42: <ais523> it's normally the job queue that's responsible for category updates via templates +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:53:24: <ais523> fixed it, anyway, by null-editing the page +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:53:41: <ais523> (just load the edit view, then click "save changes" without doing anything) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:54:02: <ais523> (that regenerates the page in a stronger way than merely purging does) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:59:22: <elliott> ais523: Kick shachaf. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:59:41: <ais523> elliott: it was quite a good joke… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:08:57: <elliott> ais523: Are you going to kick shachaf or not? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:18:46: <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 55m 5s ago: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:20:23: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:27:33: <oerjan> 08:15:16: -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("before someone mentions Feather"). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:27:33: <oerjan> 08:15:55: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:15:59:10: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:16:34:30: <ais523> quintopia: ion: are you in the same class somehow? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:16:35:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:05:20: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:05:59: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:11: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:27: <shachaf> `welcome ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:36: <HackEgo> ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:08:30: <elliott> `unwelcome ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:09:06: <shachaf> "your not welcome in here, ais523" -- elliott "hi" elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:09:46: <shachaf> ais523: Ban me from this channel! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:55:31: <elliott> shachaf: ais523: fizzie: pikhq_: ping +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:21: <ais523> checking +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:25: <ais523> no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:49: <ais523> ah, it has loaded +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:51: <ais523> but pretty slowly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:03: <ais523> and it's working now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:25: <ais523> looks like it was some sort of DNS glitch +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:44: <ais523> try a couple of other servers +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:49: <ais523> DNS servers, that is +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:54: <ais523> dig @8.8.8.8, dig @4.2.2.1 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:58:43: <ais523> 8.8.8.8 (Google), gave me the right answer straight away, 4.2.2.1 (Level3) took a while then returned no IP +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:59:18: <ais523> <Level3> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 7188 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:08:36: <ais523> C++ has rather stricter rules on pointers than C does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:08:45: <ais523> I'm not offhand sure whether it lets you cast anything into a void* or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:02: <elliott> ais523: holy crap, the categories list at the bottom of MediaWiki pages is in source order +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:09: <elliott> ais523: I assumed it'd sort them... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:24: <ais523> it's more flexible this way, you can order them by hand +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:37: <ais523> presumably there's an AWB plugin for sorting them, and a huge row about whether people should use it or not +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:41: <elliott> ais523: how is that flexibility useful? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:50: <ais523> you are missing the point of MediaWiki! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:29:16: <ais523> I think it's used to put [[Category:Living people]] first, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:29:47: <elliott> ais523: IMO, that should be done by allowing you to establish relations between _categories_ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:30:26: <ais523> did you know that not only can you, in an article, choose where the category goes in the list of categories on the article, but also where the article goes in the list of articles on the category? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:32:59: <ais523> zzo38: indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:33:44: <elliott> ais523: speaking of bots, how hellish is pywikipediabot? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:34:22: <ais523> not as bad as rolling your own library, although last I looked it used scraping rather than the API +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:34:26: <ais523> perhaps it's been fixed to use the API since +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:37:41: <elliott> ais523: err, apparently [[Category:Living people]] exists only for BLP monitoring +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:37:54: <ais523> elliott: indeed, that's its purpose +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:06: <ais523> but it's so important when editing something +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:10: <ais523> by policy +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:30: <ais523> Wikipedia isn't really aimed at readers, because they don't make the decisions… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:40:20: <ais523> yes! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:12:06: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:23:07: -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:11: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:37: <ais523_> !glogbot_ignore so am I online now? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:43: <ais523_> yay +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:52: <ais523_> (!glogbot_ignore: good ping, or the best ping?) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:46:52: <elliott> ais523_: no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:47:28: <elliott> ais523_: Now, er, how much do you know about table styling? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:48:30: <ais523_> not a huge amount +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:06: <elliott> ais523_: by the way, I thought of an obvious criterion for the spam user deletion script I missed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:17: <ais523_> go on +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:41: <elliott> ais523_: "has an entry in the block log matching %spam%" (note: this is different from "is currently blocked with that entry") +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:57: <ais523_> ah, of course +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:08: <ais523_> what about "has a 24-year block"? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:21: <ais523_> for when the reason was typoed or not given? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:38: <ais523_> although you'll need to check fake-lament on that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:57:10: * ais523_ thinks it's vaguely weird to be on a wiki that's had exactly one vandal +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:58:06: <ais523_> no "spma" or "spa," or whatever? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:58:24: <elliott> ais523_: oh, probably (although not "spma", at least), but we can delete users manually after-the-fact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:00:09: <elliott> ais523_: haha, wow: (show/hide) 06:13, 28 September 2005 Graue (Talk | contribs | block) blocked 69.50.165.186 (Talk) with an expiry time of 24 years (probably a spammer testing to see if shit gets deleted here) (unblock | change block) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:00:22: <elliott> ais523_: they were blocked for creating [[Esolang:Sandbox]] with "Hello" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:02:54: <elliott> ais523_: also, I'm wondering if lament-impersonator isn't actually lament themselves +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:04:30: <elliott> ais523_: it seems it happened when IRP was on reddit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:14:41: <elliott> ais523_: wow, the query is really good now +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:15:41: <elliott> ais523_: (actually, I'm more surprised there were 3043 matches before adding the log entry criterion) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:16:18: <elliott> I get the feeling ais523_ isn't here +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:22:08: <elliott> ais523_: fun fact: nobody has ever been unblocked on esolang +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:40:41: <elliott> ais523: ais523_: another criterion I just thought of: only contribution is to own user or user talk page, which has been deleted +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:40:53: <elliott> ais523: ais523_: (keymaker has deleted lots, but never filled out a reason) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:02:33: <ais523_> I've been with students all this time +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:20: <ais523_> so, esolang idea inspired by one of my students' code: a language that ignores expressions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:45: <ais523_> as in, it's vaguely C-like, but if(x>3) and if(y>4) mean the same thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:58: <ais523_> you can write conditionals, but not choose what they're conditionalling on +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:07: <elliott> ais523_: did you see what I said about the first user ever blocked on esolang, btw? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:59: <elliott> <elliott> ais523_: haha, wow: (show/hide) 06:13, 28 September 2005 Graue (Talk | contribs | block) blocked 69.50.165.186 (Talk) with an expiry time of 24 years (probably a spammer testing to see if shit gets deleted here) (unblock | change block) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:59: <elliott> <elliott> ais523_: they were blocked for creating [[Esolang:Sandbox]] with "Hello" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:04:27: <ais523_> I did +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:04:48: <ais523_> and you can just edit [[Project:Sandbox]] on any MediaWiki wiki, it'll be translated to the appropriate alternative +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:05: <elliott> ais523_: I rather doubt spambots are doing that, either +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:17: <ais523_> anyway, Coq requires your programs to be proved correct, much like Agda +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:27: <ais523_> so it's rather harder to program in than Haskell +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:35: <elliott> ais523_: your first statement is completely false (and also nonsensical) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:45: <ais523_> well, yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:50: <ais523_> but /if/ it made sense, it would be true +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:06:06: <elliott> ais523_: I doubt it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:06:16: <ais523_> (note: I've been awake for quite a while, you can expect me to make no sense) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:30: <ais523_> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:33: <ais523_> admittedly, not by much +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:48: <ais523_> also, I'm usually tired +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:09:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:12:14: <ais523_> bleh, that's the wireless malfunctioning again +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:12:18: <ais523_> alternatively, someone stealing my laptop +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:13:59: <elliott> ais523_: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:20:03: <ais523_> ^ul ((oerjan: )S:^):^ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:20:21: <ais523_> if you're going to recursively ping someone, do it properly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:21:43: <oerjan> ^bf >[,>]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!ais523_: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:13: <oerjan> ^bf >,[>,]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!ais523_: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:13: <fungot> ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:58: <ais523_> I was about to ask, for any particular reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:23:01: <ais523_> but I think you answered for me +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:25:14: <ais523_> fizzie: but we're reusing them anyway +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:25:56: <ais523_> but the (oerjan) is being :ed in both cases +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:26:17: <ais523_> just it's inside another program in one of the cases) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:26:35: <ais523_> (great things about English #50: it even lets you verb punctuation marks) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:01: <elliott> ais523_: I think Swedish does that better, they have an actual separator +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:14: <ais523_> how many languages allow s/// constructs, with that name? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:26: <ais523_> it might be more fun to link each word of "everybody seems to be doing" to a different language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:32: <ais523_> but that would mean finding five of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:28:19: <ais523_> thue uses the ::= syntax +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:28:34: <elliott> ais523_: perl, sed, ed (I think) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:33:52: <elliott> ais523_: hey, mind if I move [[Template:Featured language]] to [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]] and [[Template:Featured]] to [[Template:Featured language]]? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:47:25: <ais523_> elliott: I don't mind +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:47:38: <ais523_> (remember that you can transclude non-templates) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:08: <elliott> ais523_: obviously, or I wouldn't move {{featured language}} to [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]], it'd break the main page :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:19: <ais523_> elliott: fun fact: did you know that templates weren't actually added to MediaWiki intentionally? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:34: <elliott> ais523_: you originally transcluded interface messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:44: <ais523_> yes, for internationalisation purposes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:50: <elliott> ais523_: I know this because I read a comment where you explained it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:08: <ais523_> and people realised you could put arbitrary stuff in MediaWiki: space even though the software ignored it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:15: <ais523_> and make it think you were internationalising messages +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:22: <ais523_> and that's how templates came about +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:29: <elliott> ais523_: it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_November_18#Template:Tooltip-article i read it at +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:42: <ais523_> ah, OK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:56: <ais523_> I'm one of the few people to ever have successfully MfDed a MediaWiki:-space page +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:09: <ais523_> I followed it up by speedying one, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:40: <elliott> Comment I've posted the MfD now. Wow, that's the second time I've MfD'd a MediaWiki: page... --ais523 10:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:55: <ais523_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki:Tooltip-article +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:00: <ais523_> bleh, you beat me to it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:47: <ais523_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki:Block_compress_delete +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:54: <elliott> ais523_: err, does this person realise you're talking about a MediaWiki-space page? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:52:06: <ais523_> they probably did, and were intentionally-ignoring the fact +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:53:46: <ais523_> you wouldn't get huge breakage, just lots of messages being less customized +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:18: <ais523_> hmm, it's fun to see that in 2006, I wasn't sure what deleting an interface message would do and neither was anyone else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:22: <ais523_> and in 2007, I was explaining it to them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:48: <elliott> ais523_: you asked if sandbox edits show up in the "edit log" on [[Esolang:Sandbox]] in 2006 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:55:25: <ais523_> heh +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:56:12: <ais523_> meanwhile, you might enjoy this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki: +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:56:20: <ais523_> it's how I found the relevant MfDs +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:57:41: -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:17: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:37: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:59: <ais523> try saving and restoring twice +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:34:13: <elliott> ais523: what? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:34:37: <ais523> I was in the mood for a non sequitur +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:47:47: <elliott> ais523: hey, can you fix CSS so it supports negative paddings? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:48:14: <ais523> no +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:48:26: <ais523> would a negative margin work for whatever you're trying to do? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:55:46: <ais523> elliott: oh, I fixed my binary diff problem with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:30: <ais523> I got the save code to remember, for each thing it wrote out, what it was writing out (with an identifier that wouldn't change over time and was unique for each bit of the save file), and which byte in the save file it started +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:42: <ais523> then I compare the files by comparing the tags and going byte-by-byte from there +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:48: <ais523> if you believe hashtables to be O(1), it's O(n) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:57:10: <ais523> and leads to a diff format that has commands seek, copy, edit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:58:38: <ais523> I'm not even convinced it's an awful hack… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:59:46: <ais523> in my case, it's O(n^2) in the limit because I use a linked list upon hash collisions, but O(n) throughout the file sizes that actually happen in practice +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:15:00:53: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:15:13:51: <oerjan> although with ais523 and Taneb snatching the very two languages i was considering instead... +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:18:29:39: <elliott> In my defence, ais523 added that signature when adding his entry without updating the rest of the instructions. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:55:01: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:56:52: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:56:58: <ais523> hi +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:23:23: <ais523> fizzie: uppercase ß is SS +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:04: <fizzie> ais523: Sure, but that's just boring. The thing kmc linked to is much better, and in fact a bit like whatI thought it'd be. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:35: <elliott> ais523: Ss, no? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:39: <ais523> I accidentally discovered there was such a thing as uppercase schwa recently +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:46: <ais523> elliott: hmm, debatable; I've seen SS more commonly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:58:16: <ais523> elliott: fun fact: Verity turned out to have capability security by accident +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:58:21: <ais523> we didn't put it in there deliberately, it just happened +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:00: <elliott> ais523: haha +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:18: <elliott> ais523: well, capability security is more about /not/ doing certain things, really +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:41: <ais523> want to light up an LED? someone has to pass you a function that lets you do that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:01:01: <ais523> we have a linker where you just do "import <library>" and it'll automatically set up the required calls behind the scenes, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:03:25: <elliott> ais523: hey, what's the equivalent of "bibliography" for programming languages? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:03:57: <ais523> hmm, what exactly do you mean by that? I can think of two possible meanings and am having problems expressing either of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:05:03: <ais523> oh, that wasn't either of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:05:14: <ais523> we can go with catseye's version, I think +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:06:37: <elliott> ais523: (I realised [[Chris Pressey]] should probably have a comprehensive list of the languages we have articles on) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:06:46: <ais523> indeed +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:11:55: <ais523> seriously? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:02: <ais523> admittedly, I like Homespring and Muriel too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:38: <ais523> actually, I should start using Homespring rather than Haifu as an example of a good thematic language +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:44: <ais523> they both are, but Homespring is better +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:50: <ais523> well, HOMESPRING +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:56: <ais523> it's an acronym, after all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:13:10: <elliott> ais523: no, HOtMEfSPRIbNG +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:13:19: <ais523> that's the expanded version +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:14:49: <ais523> how bizarre +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:15:07: <ais523> there's also documentation in the esoteric files archive, though +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:15:26: <ais523> nah, it's hilarious +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:04: <ais523> elliott: what are Linux DEs like nowadays? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:31: <elliott> ais523: which ones? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:37: <ais523> any of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:44: <ais523> I'm still on Gnome 2, but I'm going to have to upgrade eventually +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:52: <ais523> and am wondering if there are any I'll find usable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:21:04: <ais523> (note: I consider Windows 7 usable; not on default settings, but it only requires small changes) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:21:50: <ais523> pity, I was rather hoping they would +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:03: <ais523> or at least, that someone had got gnome-panel working properly in gnome 3 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:08: <ais523> that's what I'd want, really +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:30: <elliott> ais523: gnome 3 does have a gnome-panel, the "fallback" mode +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:34: <ais523> keep the applications, use the old window manager and panel application +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:38: <ais523> yep, I'd heard that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:52: <ais523> crazy idea: is it possible to use gnome 2's gnome-panel in gnome 3? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:23:39: <ais523> I guess I'll try Unity first, and probably decide I don't like it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:23:42: <ais523> and then KDE +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:24:20: <elliott> ais523: why not just try Xfce first? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:24:52: <ais523> I guess trying the options that you expect not to succeed first is likely to produce a better decision in the end +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:25:02: <ais523> also note that I used an earlier version of KDE 4 for a while +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:25:07: <ais523> and it was mostly usable +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:33:50: <ais523> a fail isn't really quite the same thing as an exception, although they're similar +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:33:55: <ais523> and a cut is not the same thing as an exception at all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:34:05: <ais523> and a nonlocal cut is not at all related +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:35:59: <ais523> it's possible to implement fails as exceptions +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:36:18: <ais523> I was showing my students how to do that in Java, for if they wanted to write a parser that wasn't LL(1) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:36:40: <ais523> (which was a surprisingly possible thing, as they had to write a parser, and had been shown how to write LL(1) parsers which was sufficient for the exercise) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:42:48: <ais523> hagb4rd: don't all error handling mechanisms do that? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:59:10: <ais523> oh right, I forgot about the antipattern where when anything goes wrong, you print it to stdout and keep on going +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:12:33:05: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:13:33:16: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: Ss, no? <-- since it doesn't actually occur at the start of words it would probably always be all caps, so SS as ais523 says +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:42:15: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:42:40: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:44:04: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:45:54: <ais523> Vorpal: the GPU renders the cursor, AFAIK +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:46:07: <ais523> the reason I think this is that I've seen GPU crashes that render nothing on the system working /but/ the mouse cursor +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:46:27: <elliott> ais523: That's a bit modern-day for Vorpal's question. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:56:46: <ais523> bleh, my zoom-in-and-see-the-individual-pixels window manager trick doesn't work on the cursor +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:06: <Vorpal> ais523, a screen magnifier? Or something else? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:25: <ais523> Vorpal: it's one of the compiz features +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:32: <ais523> most of them, I'm not even sure if they have an intended use +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:36: <ais523> they were just added because they could +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:53: <ais523> e.g. I can make a window black-and-white using super-shift-mousewheel +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:04: <ais523> which is nice on occasion, if something's too brightly colored +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:34: <Vorpal> ais523, anyway, what happened to the cursor when you used that trick? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:41: <ais523> it just kept moving around as normal +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:48: <ais523> oh, you mean zooming in? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:51: <ais523> it stayed the same size +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:59: <ais523> and moving it changed the point the screen was zoomed around +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:01:46: <ais523> fizzie: that's actually in the default set when you ask for high effects +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:02:47: <ais523> Vorpal: there's a bit of a timelag on pixels further from the mouse +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:02:53: <ais523> so it looks like the window's slightly elastic +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:31: <ais523> Vorpal: it looks nicer than the window staying rigid +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:44: <ais523> but yes, there's no real need for it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:46: <ais523> to me it does +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:57: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:26:02: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:32:26: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:32:52: <ais523> hi +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:24:36: <ais523> use Gregor's neural network? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:25:55: <elliott> ais523: No. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:41:42: <ais523> is there even any point? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:46:39: <elliott> ais523: ? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:26: <ais523> fizzie: someone tried to run it and complained that it didn't work +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:28: <ais523> `file canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:38: <ais523> `cat canary +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:19:29: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:21:30: <nortti> it makes Phantom_Hoover and ais523 quit +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:41:07: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:42:21: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:42:45: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:14:23:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:55:20: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:56:12: <ais523> yay, teaching over for the academic year +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:56:17: <ais523> not counting potential marks entry or exam marking +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:00:08: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:00:12: <ais523> hi elliott +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:02:32: <ais523> real men made their computer out of transistors, and have their boot code hardcoded from memory +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:06: <ais523> is spit n-type or p-type? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:15: <ais523> it's mostly made of water and protein, right? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:43: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, real men spit arsenic and boron. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:09:05: <ais523> the problem is that such discussions collapse into self-parody too quickly +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:09:13: <ais523> and are indistinguishable from it even if they aren't meant to be +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:10:20: <ais523> yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:07: <elliott> ais523: Hey, should I add <ref> and <math>? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:24: <ais523> elliott: depends on if you think anyone would use them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:35: <ais523> also, why not zzo38's custom mathy thing? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:42:10: <elliott> ais523: Because zzo38's custom mathy thing (a) needs heavy modifications to be usable on anybody else's computer by his own admission, (b) obviously doesn't support standard LaTeX syntax, and (c) has no MediaWiki extension, he wants me to write the extension for him to use it. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:45:14: <elliott> ais523: I think <ref> would be useful, since there are quite a few articles with citations done in a rather ad-hoc style (mostly the theoretical CS stuff). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:45:39: <ais523> perhaps +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:23:51: <ais523> so what are these esocolor things? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:24:58: <elliott> ais523: We're painting fizzie's house. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:25:09: <ais523> not sure I believe that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:25:40: <ais523> elliott: does anyone /really/ believe the world is piecewise-linear? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:26:57: <elliott> ais523: Like, God, man. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:49:46: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:06:02: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:12:40: <elliott> hi ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:12:49: <ais523> ` +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:15: <olsner> `? ais523 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:18: <HackEgo> ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:30: <ais523> gah, HackEgo has ruined our convention +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:35: <ais523> which shows how long ago we last tried to use it… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:14:00: <ais523> come to think of it, "not found" is not really a sensible error message for trying to exec the null string +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:42:10: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:45:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:55:03: -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:57:26: <ais523> btw, that gzip file that got mangled by phpBB? the person sent me the original, it was a standard gzip file after all +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:58:04: <ais523> it had a lot of NULs after the first three bytes, which presumably phpBB deleted, which is why we couldn't parse it from that +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:59:31: <ais523> the zeros came very early +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:59:34: <ais523> so they'd have shifted all the bytes from then on out of place +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:05:51: <ais523> oh, mtime was indeed 0, in that case +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:34: <ais523> wow, advert I just saw: "3 easy steps: 1. Click to download. 2. Run the .exe file to install. 3. Enjoy the fun content!" together with a large Download button, five stars, the company name, some version compatibility information, and a large tick for some reason +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:42: <ais523> no indication on what the product actually was… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:54: <ais523> what are the odds it /isn't/ malware? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:01:44: <ais523> Sgeo: are you an idiot now? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:01:52: <Sgeo> ais523, I'd like to think not. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:48:08: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:25:44: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:27:19: <elliott> ais523: Speaking of, I might sit down and spec out Johny sometime. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:03: <ais523> elliott: heh, have you found a language that the name fits yet? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:16: <ais523> oerjan: does INTERCAL count? that's not quite the same thing +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:38: <elliott> ais523: Well, no. But I figure a language that doesn't fit the name is just as good. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:31:20: <ais523> early mechanical typewriters didn't even have 0 or 1 keys, you were meant to use O and I +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:31:59: <ais523> elliott: a reddit comment explained the invention of the backslash a while back +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:32:10: <ais523> apparently, it was to make it possible to type /\ and \/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:32:47: <elliott> ais523: ISTR that too +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:33:37: <ais523> ion: yes +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:34:57: <elliott> ais523: kick ion +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:23: <ais523> ion: don't spell elliott's name, he doesn't like it and there's no excuse given the existence of tab-complete +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:38: <ais523> (although, I find it hard to spell elliott any other way even when it's correct, having known this elliott so long) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:53: <Mathnerd314> ais523: what about elly? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:07: <ais523> Mathnerd314: that's not a common abbreviation for "elliott" +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:09: <elliott> ion: ais523 was preceded by 522 ais'. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:26: <ais523> it is a moderately common name, but it's short for something else +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:28: <ais523> I forget what offhand +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:50: <Mathnerd314> ais523: my point was it makes tab-complete difficult +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:37:38: <ais523> ah, I didn't notice she was in /here/ +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:37:43: <ais523> (I know her from another channel) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:38:18: <Mathnerd314> ais523: and which channel would that be, or is it classified? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:38:44: <ais523> Mathnerd314: ##crawl-dev +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:39:46: <elliott> ion: You won't get along with ais523, then! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:39:59: <ais523> I /want/ to like Crawl, but can't +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:07: <ais523> every now and then I start playing it again, and remember why I don't like it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:45: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: devs are taking it in the wrong direction +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:56: <elliott> Well, also what ais523 has told me. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:07: <ais523> there seems to be some sort of crusade against tactics +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:16: <ais523> and the game tends to tend in the direction of obfuscating complexity +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:25: <ais523> security through obscurity makes no sense in a roguelike… +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:28: <ais523> oerjan: interesting fact: while I have written several MiniMAX interps, I have never dared to run any of them +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:35: <ais523> also, does class="plain" on the table work? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:39: <elliott> ais523: No. +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:48:59: <oerjan> ais523: nice synchronicity - it was your MiniMax table that convinced me that something like plainpres was needed :) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:19: <ais523> oerjan: I saw you editing MiniMAX, and being unsure why you were doing so +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:21: <ais523> have you figured it out yet? +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:31: <ais523> (I was commenting on MiniMAX /because/ you were editing it) +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:27: <oerjan> ais523: i just thought i should add a proper table, after doing so for the TC proof +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:45: <ais523> why you were editing it +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:50: <oerjan> ais523: also i hit the latter by pressing random +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:51:14: <elliott> ais523: he was unsure why he started his formatting because it's a lot of work, presumably +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:21:57:22: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:12:32:58: <elliott> @tell ais523 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4471 +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:14:52:33: <elliott> @tell ais523 Stop appearing where I least expect you! +/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:17:48:45: <elliott> `run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.8939 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,6 @@ +2012-03-23.txt:16:01:45: -!- quintopia changed the topic of #esoteric to: This is CERTAINLY the MOST TERRIFYING GAMALOST you will RUN AWAY FROM all OLSOK: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines +2012-03-23.txt:16:02:36: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: This is CERTAINLY the MOST TERRIFYING GAMALOST you will RUN AWAY FROM all OLSOK: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2012-03-25.txt:20:10:13: -!- oerjan changed the topic of #esoteric to: This is NOT the WORST MARMITE you will ABSORB all GUY FAWKES NIGHT: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2012-03-26.txt:04:08:03: <oklopol> "The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines" could someone elaborate on this +2012-03-26.txt:04:11:40: <oerjan> `pastelogs The proof is trivial! Just view the +2012-03-26.txt:04:12:19: <oerjan> `pastelogs The proof is trivial! Just view the
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/paste/paste.968 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,199 @@ +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:42: <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:21:16:47: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:21:17:08: <Phantom_Hoover> treederwright, what're the dimensions of the matrix of solidity? +2011-03-10.txt:21:17:08: <elliott> ENTER MY OCTAGON AND FACE MY MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-03-10.txt:21:18:01: <pikhq> Is the matrix of solidity square? Is it invertible? +2011-03-10.txt:21:18:31: <Phantom_Hoover> WE WILL NEVER FIND THE INVERSE OF OUR MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-03-10.txt:21:18:45: <pikhq> elliott: Perhaps all our matrices are submatrices of the matrix of solidity. +2011-03-10.txt:21:19:01: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: The Residence of the Entrapments of the Matrix of Solidity | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ +2011-03-10.txt:21:19:16: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: The Residency of the Entrapments of the Matrix of Solidity | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ +2011-03-10.txt:22:19:03: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:21:18: <Twiddle> "matrix of solidity" +2011-03-10.txt:22:22:28: <elliott> `addquote <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:22:29: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-10.txt:22:22:49: <elliott> matrix of solidity is good enough. +2011-03-29.txt:01:39:17: <Gregor> ESOTERIC TOPICS IN COMPUTING AND PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. WE HAVE THEM. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D , http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Everyone who has not yet contributed to the libc.so fund: There is still time! As those who do not contribute will be required to enter the Evisceration Chamber within 48 hours of the end of the auction, those who have not yet donated are highly advised to +2011-03-29.txt:01:39:48: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC TOPICS IN COMPUTING AND PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. WE HAVE THEM. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D , http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Gregor's libc.so fund: As those who do not contribute will be required to enter the Evisceration Chamber within 48 hours of the end of the auction, those who have not yet donated are +2011-03-29.txt:01:41:30: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC TOPICS IN COMPUTING AND PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. WE HAVE THEM. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D , http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Gregor's libc.so fund: Those who don't contribute will be forced into Evisceration Chamber. If you haven't donated, you are highly advised to consider it! +2011-03-29.txt:01:55:49: <Gregor> Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. +2011-03-29.txt:02:02:41: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC TOPICS IN COMPUTING AND PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. WE HAVE THEM. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D , http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Gregor's libc.so fund: Those who don't contribute will be forced into the Evisceration Chamber. If you haven't donated, you are highly advised to consider it! +2011-03-29.txt:02:03:06: <elliott> Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. Have a nice day! +2011-03-29.txt:08:50:49: <elliott> Vorpal: please, enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidarity this fine tuesday :) +2011-03-29.txt:14:41:05: <Gregor> Well, then enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. +2011-03-29.txt:19:29:23: <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ENJOY BEING LOCKED IN YOUR MATRIX OF SOLIDITY. +2011-03-30.txt:02:02:43: <Gregor> oerjan: Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. +2011-03-30.txt:05:01:03: -!- catseye has quit (Quit: locking myself back into my matrix of solidity. and/or sleeping). +2011-03-30.txt:16:20:04: <Gregor> Sadly, they too were locked in their matrix of solidity. +2011-03-30.txt:20:39:32: <Gregor> OR ARE YOU LOCKED IN A MATRIX OF SOLIDITY? +2011-03-30.txt:20:40:03: <Phantom_Hoover> NOW THAT HE IS FREED OF THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY WE CAN MOCK HIM IN SO MANY OTHER WAYS +2011-03-31.txt:17:58:03: <oklopol> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-31.txt:19:00:11: <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF6LJ1BxEkc&feature=related <<< this guy here is totally locked in his matrix of solidity +2011-03-31.txt:19:27:29: <Gregor> But then, maybe I'm just locked in my matrix of solidity. +2011-03-31.txt:19:32:02: <Gregor> The matrix of solidity. +2011-03-31.txt:19:32:22: <oklopol> i'm so going to break out from my matrix of solidity +2011-03-31.txt:19:32:38: <olsner> unsolidify the matrix of solidity? +2011-03-31.txt:19:34:13: <oklopol> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-03-31.txt:19:51:36: <oerjan> <olsner> unsolidify the matrix of solidity? +2011-03-31.txt:19:52:41: <Gregor> Spoken like someone locked within their matrix of solidity. +2011-03-31.txt:19:53:27: <Gregor> RIP Phantom_Hoover \ 2004-2011 \ He tried to escape his matrix of solidity +2011-03-31.txt:19:57:36: <Phantom_Hoover> WAIT I HAVE A BETTER IDEA FOR BREAKING THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-04-01.txt:11:42:13: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-01.txt:14:29:04: <Gregor> Probably because he's locked in his matrix of solidity. +2011-04-01.txt:21:43:01: -!- cpressey changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Qdeql +Sceql +SMETANA) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-01.txt:21:43:51: <elliott> "Hmm. Indeed, this forum is indeed not very mephitic. And I *do* feel like escaping my matrix of solidity... aha! The solution to my woes!" +2011-04-01.txt:23:42:21: * iconmaster is enjoying being locked in his matrix of solidity. +2011-04-02.txt:13:31:32: <Phantom_Hoover> Welcome to the matrix of solidity. +2011-04-03.txt:00:29:31: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Qdeql +Sceql +SMETANA) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-03.txt:17:32:36: -!- catseye changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Ale) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-03.txt:18:33:17: <elliott> and while you're at it, enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity! +2011-04-03.txt:18:36:43: <elliott> Vorpal: ENJOY BEING LOCKED IN YOUR MATRIX OF SOLIDITY, ASSHOLE +2011-04-03.txt:20:04:40: <elliott> catseye: bah. i'd prefer you locked it into a matrix of solidity!!!! +2011-04-05.txt:01:21:00: -!- catseye changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-05.txt:01:21:23: -!- tswett changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | I dismiss you, tswettbot. +2011-04-05.txt:01:22:11: -!- tswett changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-05.txt:01:25:43: -!- catseye changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | tswettbot: join #python! +2011-04-05.txt:01:28:28: -!- catseye changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-05.txt:02:39:22: <oklopol> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-04-05.txt:13:38:28: * elliott yawns. in his matrix of solidity. +2011-04-05.txt:23:14:12: -!- tswett changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-04-06.txt:01:29:21: -!- tswett changed the topic of #esoteric to: ESOTERIC LANGUAGES | Catch sufficiently hello world. | An unusually not mephitic forum. | Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html (+Etcha +fixes) | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | variable +2011-04-08.txt:17:55:25: <Gregor> He's locked in a matrix of solidity. He cannot respond. +2011-04-08.txt:20:19:50: -!- elliott changed the topic of #esoteric to: An unusually not mephitic forum that catches sufficiently "Hello world. Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." | yoob: http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-04-08.txt:20:21:30: <elliott> Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. +2011-04-08.txt:20:23:42: <elliott> oerjan: WELL START TRANSLATING THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY LINE THEN ;D +2011-04-08.txt:22:25:05: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-04-08.txt:22:26:10: <elliott> 13:17:08 <Phantom_Hoover> treederwright, what're the dimensions of the matrix of solidity? +2011-04-08.txt:22:26:10: <elliott> 13:18:01 <pikhq> Is the matrix of solidity square? Is it invertible? +2011-04-10.txt:09:07:07: <oklopol> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-04-15.txt:14:47:32: <Gregor> I don't like anything that has /neither/ the day of the day of the day of the day nor the matrix of solidity. +2011-04-15.txt:14:54:17: <Gregor> God, it's like you lock yourSELF in a matrix of solidity. +2011-04-15.txt:15:06:57: <elliott> Gregor: <img src="/w/images/7/75/Trilime.png" alt="Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." width="135" height="131" longdesc="/wiki/Image:Trilime.png" /> +2011-04-15.txt:15:24:49: <elliott> <elliott> This channel is unofficial lies. #matrixofsolidity is the OFFICIAL matrix of solidity. +2011-04-15.txt:15:24:58: <Gregor> PS there is no talking in the matrix of solidity. +2011-04-15.txt:15:25:13: <elliott> You mean in the FAKE matrix of solidity. +2011-04-15.txt:15:34:47: <elliott> Gregor: You think the matrix of solidity has this EARTHLY-PLANE concept of a "topic"? +2011-04-15.txt:15:35:00: <elliott> There is not "no topic", there is simply the lack of the concept of topic, just as the matrix of solidity lacks ifofgjfdg. +2011-04-15.txt:15:35:29: <Gregor> And a lock, although that's outside the matrix and is what's keeping us in, it's not part of the matrix of solidity proper. +2011-04-15.txt:15:36:01: <elliott> We lock ourselves into the matrix of solidity, and cannot escape. +2011-04-15.txt:15:47:25: <Gregor> But then how are we to be locked in our matrix of solidity? +2011-04-15.txt:15:54:16: <elliott> Vorpal: YOU CANNOT LEAVE YOUR MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-04-15.txt:17:31:59: <elliott> leBMD: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity :-) +2011-04-15.txt:17:54:53: <Gregor> Deewiant: I NOTICE YOU HAVE NOT LOCKED YOURSELF IN THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-04-15.txt:18:51:51: <elliott_> The matrix of solidity is there if you look closely. +2011-04-17.txt:13:22:05: <iconmaster_> I noticed the new frontpage today, and I am dissapointed that there is no Matrix of Solidity quote to be found. +2011-04-26.txt:18:14:27: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-04-27.txt:22:24:10: -!- crystal-cola changed the topic of #esoteric to: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-04-27.txt:22:24:23: -!- crystal-cola changed the topic of #esoteric to: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | wait let me paramaterise the alphabet| Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-04-28.txt:19:29:05: -!- oerjan changed the topic of #esoteric to: You can never escape your matrix of solidity. (fnarf) | wait let me paramaterise the alphabet | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Some logs also available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-05-13.txt:10:29:45: -!- elliott_ changed the topic of #esoteric to: "And without manifestation, who can say that this passage would exist since light *is* Being as manifestation? Thus light lies somewhere between an infinitely dark source and the immeasurable matrix of solidity." --Ernest Hemingway | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D +2011-05-13.txt:14:14:22: <ZOMGMODULES> enjoy being locked in your immeasurable matrix of solidity +2011-05-15.txt:19:32:48: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-15.txt:19:33:22: <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, the matrix of solidity. +2011-05-16.txt:16:57:38: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-18.txt:20:14:43: <ais523_> also, I didn't know that the matrix of solidity thing was on the main page +2011-05-18.txt:20:14:57: <HackEgo> 329) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-05-24.txt:20:05:40: <Phantom_Hoover> ARE YOU SECURELY LOCKED INTO THE MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-08-02.txt:07:24:41: <olsner> use the matrix of solidity as the projection matrix +2011-08-04.txt:15:30:50: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-08-04.txt:20:38:55: <olsner> (ooh! I see the matrix of solidity has made a comeback in the topic, good stuff) +2011-08-05.txt:21:43:05: <ais523> hey, we have a matrix of solidity in the topic again! +2011-08-05.txt:23:53:23: <Phantom_Hoover> Hey, who set the topic back to matrix of solidity? +2011-08-05.txt:23:53:56: -!- Lymee changed the topic of #esoteric to: Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity | wget redpill | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-09-27.txt:17:07:05: <ais523> elliott: matrix of solidity +2011-10-19.txt:19:14:01: <HackEgo> 316) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-03.txt:18:40:05: <Gregor> shachaf: Blah blah blah matrix of solidity blah blah blah +2011-11-03.txt:18:40:52: <quintopia> but i am too locked into my matrix of solidity +2011-11-03.txt:18:46:07: <Vorpal> wait, lets make a bf clone with renamed command, like [ = matrix of solidity +2011-11-03.txt:18:46:46: <quintopia> was the matrix of solidity thing once said by a parting visitor to this channel? +2011-11-03.txt:18:46:53: <HackEgo> 303) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:11:01:34: <HackEgo> 303) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:22:50:04: <Phantom_Hoover> `quote matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:22:50:07: <HackEgo> 301) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-11-10.txt:22:50:23: <ais523> do we have an esolang based on the matrix of solidity concept yet? +2011-11-10.txt:22:51:27: <elliott> The matrix of solidity is literally us. +2011-11-10.txt:22:54:22: <oerjan> the hermitian matrix of solidity +2011-11-11.txt:16:47:02: <ais523> elliott: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity! +2011-11-15.txt:23:16:53: <ais523\unfoog> elliott: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity! +2011-12-11.txt:22:58:08: <elliott> `quote matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:22:58:11: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:22:58:56: <itidus20> i remember the matrix of solidity being in the topic for a while +2011-12-11.txt:22:59:15: <itidus20> `log matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:22:59:21: <HackEgo> 2011-04-15.txt:14:54:17: <Gregor> God, it's like you lock yourSELF in a matrix of solidity. +2011-12-11.txt:22:59:30: <itidus20> `log matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:22:59:36: <HackEgo> 2011-03-10.txt:21:17:08: <elliott> ENTER MY OCTAGON AND FACE MY MATRIX OF SOLIDITY +2011-12-11.txt:23:21:51: <Phantom_Hoover> Matrix of solidity is quote number 299??? +2011-12-11.txt:23:22:17: <elliott> `pastelogs matrix of solidity +2011-12-11.txt:23:22:40: <elliott> 2011-03-10.txt:22:22:29: <HackEgo> 330) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-15.txt:17:22:03: <Gregor> elliott: A /legit/ new person. Not locking us in a matrix of solidity or anything. +2011-12-15.txt:17:22:58: <elliott> Gregor: Then who is going to lock us in our matrix of solidity? :/ +2011-12-15.txt:17:23:26: <Gregor> elliott: Don't worry, we'll ALWAYS be locked in a matrix of solidity. We lock it ourselves. +2011-12-15.txt:21:20:11: <itidus21> the elliottonian vortex is related to the matrix of solidity +2011-12-15.txt:21:21:06: <elliott> <itidus21> the elliottonian vortex is related to the matrix of solidity +2011-12-17.txt:20:53:37: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: <itidus21> on a side note, [...] finland is very depressing and a bit of a matrix of solidity | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ +2011-12-17.txt:21:03:28: <Gregor> elliott: No, it's a matrix of solidity. +2011-12-24.txt:01:18:30: <Gregor> `pastelogs matrix of solidity +2011-12-24.txt:01:18:40: <elliott> `quote matrix of solidity +2011-12-24.txt:01:18:49: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2011-12-24.txt:19:45:08: <ais523> I'll end up coming up with ways to escape the matrix of solidity, at this rate) +2011-12-24.txt:19:45:21: <elliott_> nobody can escape the matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:08:07:07: <elliott> ais523: fizzie: the trilime is the matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:08:07:24: <ais523> it predates us hearing about the matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:08:07:37: <elliott> do you seriously believe the matrix of solidity didn't exist before we heard about it? +2012-01-04.txt:08:07:38: <fizzie> Linear time is no boundary for the matrix of solidity? +2012-01-04.txt:08:08:40: <elliott> ais523: not in the matrix of solidity! +2012-01-04.txt:20:01:00: * elliott considers changing "Why not join us on IRC?" to "Why not join us in the matrix of solidity?" +2012-01-04.txt:20:08:28: <ais523> why do you consider /IRC/ to be the matrix of solidity? +2012-01-04.txt:20:08:33: <ais523> `pastlog matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:09:12: <elliott> `quote matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:09:16: <HackEgo> 299) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:09:38: <elliott> we, on IRC, were closed-minded; treederwright enlightened us as to the matrix of solidity we are locked within +2012-01-04.txt:20:09:47: <ais523> I can't believe that "matrix of solidity" never came up in the logs before now, though +2012-01-04.txt:20:10:24: <HackEgo> 2011-11-10.txt:22:50:04: <Phantom_Hoover> `quote matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:20:52: <ais523> `pastlog matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:21:01: <HackEgo> 2011-04-01.txt:23:42:21: * iconmaster is enjoying being locked in his matrix of solidity. +2012-01-04.txt:20:21:29: <ais523> `pastlog matrix of solidity +2012-01-04.txt:20:21:38: <HackEgo> 2011-05-18.txt:20:14:43: <ais523_> also, I didn't know that the matrix of solidity thing was on the main page +2012-01-05.txt:11:02:17: <elliott> The hoov univers is the matrix of solidity itself. +2012-01-10.txt:01:34:45: * kallisti computes his matrix of solidity on a daily basis. +2012-01-13.txt:00:24:09: <kallisti> infinite matrix of solidity +2012-01-27.txt:13:57:01: <itidus20> the matrix of solidity +2012-02-08.txt:02:47:00: <Gregor> elliott: Fix something and it'll be "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" +2012-02-12.txt:23:45:29: <itidus20> virtual math might be related to the matrix of solidity +2012-02-12.txt:23:46:04: <HackEgo> 80) <fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli. \ 259) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. \ 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity \ 708) <Phantom__Hoover> +2012-02-16.txt:19:48:36: <Friendship> shachaf: By not knowing, you are acknowledging that you are locked in your matrix of solidity. Hopefully you enjoy it there. +2012-02-16.txt:19:48:47: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-16.txt:19:49:51: <itidus20> matrix of solidity is a perjorative... so i don't much like reading it +2012-02-16.txt:19:50:34: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-16.txt:20:17:31: <itidus20> i like the matrix of solidity reference.. otherwise the name solidity wouldn't mean much to me +2012-02-16.txt:20:18:23: <kallisti> solidity to me sounds pretty, also matrix of solidity reference. +2012-02-16.txt:21:03:33: <shachaf> I'm locked in a matrix of solidity. +2012-02-16.txt:21:18:48: <olsner> elliott: did you decide on matrix of solidity dot com? +2012-02-18.txt:11:57:54: <oerjan> no, i am still stuck in the matrix of solidity. +2012-02-21.txt:19:46:48: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-21.txt:20:05:15: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-21.txt:20:05:47: <PiRSquared17> some guy who said "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" and went away, never to be heard of again? +2012-02-22.txt:04:39:56: <PiRSquared> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-22.txt:14:25:46: <ais523> and why can't we use "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity"? +2012-02-22.txt:14:27:06: <elliott> the matrix of solidity thing is already in the hostname and on the main page, I don't think it needs to proliferate any further +2012-02-26.txt:01:30:00: <itidus21> It really helps a lot when someone just blurts out an incomprehensible soundbyte like <treederwright> enjoy your matrix of solidarity +2012-02-26.txt:01:36:21: <HackEgo> 296) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-02-28.txt:01:39:04: <oerjan> all locked up in his matrix of solidity +2012-02-29.txt:15:21:25: <fizzie> If you search the log, you can find that it symbolizes the matrix of solidity. +2012-02-29.txt:15:32:12: <elliott> ion: It's the logo of the matrix of solidity. +2012-03-04.txt:21:19:24: <Sgeo_> "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." +2012-03-04.txt:21:24:27: <Friendship> ion: But can it tell you to enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity? +2012-03-07.txt:19:25:27: <Friendship> Nobody can year your scream... in your MATRIX OF SOLIDITY. +2012-03-18.txt:15:02:14: <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: I'm removing yr matrix of solidity tooltip from the logo. +2012-03-18.txt:15:05:47: <fizzie> It looks a bit like matrix of solidity fanart. +2012-03-18.txt:15:46:39: <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: Of course, I could also change the page title to "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" and remove the tooltip. +2012-03-18.txt:23:00:33: <ais523> elliott: a matrix of solidity? +2012-03-19.txt:01:24:11: <RocketJSquirrel> elliott: Without enjoyment of our matrix of solidity, it is but a pale imitation of main pages of yore. +2012-03-19.txt:01:38:44: <RocketJSquirrel> Fairly certain that IS my matrix of solidity. +2012-03-19.txt:01:40:24: <itidus21> Maharba: Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity. +2012-03-19.txt:08:01:47: <elliott> ais523: hey, you have an anonymised google: are we really the top result for "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity."? +2012-03-23.txt:15:41:11: <RocketJSquirrel> If not, I think Matrix of Solidity is begging to be linguified. Also I may have already mentioned this possibility. +2012-03-23.txt:19:22:57: <Mathnerd314> in particular, who put the quote "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" at the bottom? +2012-03-23.txt:19:23:21: <elliott> `quote matrix of solidity +2012-03-23.txt:19:23:24: <HackEgo> 294) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity +2012-04-02.txt:07:21:28: <oerjan> <elliott> shachaf: We're all on the update list. <-- so that's what the matrix of solidity _is_ +2012-04-02.txt:12:07:01: <graue> where does "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." come from, or what does it mean y'all
--- a/quotes Sun Apr 08 01:51:18 2012 +0000 +++ b/quotes Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -601,7 +601,6 @@ <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of a monadic human centipede. <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a monad. <monqy> one time I tried cpp programming <monqy> it was hellish <monqy> maybe I should try again -<fungot> CakeProphet: mr president, in the best egyptian judicial traditions has now been put off to friday. but i want my money back'. we know it generally deals with major infrastructure projects which could form part of the emergency package for korea, on christmas eve, in the interests of consumers and the environment of gmos. <oklopol> king is something women are better at than men <Taneb> Just goes to show, the Beatles are more interesting than green vegetables. <elliott> Vorpal: who needs cars when you can walk to latvia @@ -822,3 +821,20 @@ <elliott> then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context <shachaf> Free as in unregistered, not free as in lunch or speech. s'f'slg;sd'sdfjhklf;sdklfjdfklgj +<olsner> combining macros and templates can get horrible... macro(foo<bar,baz>) is two macro arguments, for instance <olsner> variadic macros can work part-way around that though <olsner> the kind of workaround where you end up inside the wall instead of on the other side of the problem +<itidus21> it sounds awful though i know.. the thought of a whole life without any hope of lawn chairs in hawaii sipping alcohol and watching bikini clad women dance with maracas +<RocketJSquirrel> `addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <elliott> `addquote IN AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE: <elliott> `addquote IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE: <elliott> `addquote IN A DETACHED PLANE: <elliott> I'm hungry, I think I'll eat a pizza. +<itidus21> I have identified a language which was only designed and implemented by me in a parallel universe. [...] IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <itidus21> Ah, yet another brilliant programming language creation of mine! +<shachaf> zzo38: Why did the barrier monad cross the road? <zzo38> shachaf: My answer is the same as before; I don't know. +<NSQX> Anyone in the Esolang community will probably just remember this day, a week before April Fools Day, as a very enthusiastic day at Esolang. +<NSQX> There's no such thing as Objective Brainfuck, or even Objective FALSE, because a programming language made of only symbols can only be esoteric/pointless. +<oerjan> as a general rule, mathematical notation doesn't make things clearer unless you first understand what you are saying. +<elliott> why isn't time going backwards <zzo38> Possibly because there is no room for time to turn around +<oklopol> how silly is that. <oklopol> it's not silly. <oklopol> it makes sense. +<monqy> esolang a horror movie where the ghost just wanders around and moves newspapers and boots and family pictures a few inches before moving on +<elliott> Sgeo: will i regret clicking that link? <ais523> elliott: I'll check it for you <ais523> yes <elliott> ais523: thanks, I'll click it then +<nortti> `fortune <HackEgo> /i \ //, \ ///i \ ,/ ).'i \ | )-i \ | )i \ ' )i \ / |- \ _.-./-. /z_ \ `-. >._\ _ );i. \ / `-'/`k-'`u)-'` \ / +<Phantom_Hoover> no olsner <Phantom_Hoover> i am now enlighten <Phantom_Hoover> i am the brick <Phantom_Hoover> and i am the brain +<oerjan> i recall memories of using my op powers for jokes. ...bad memories. <ais523> oerjan: you can remember /that/ but not KFC? +<Phantom_Hoover> "In 2009, a strange smell began wafting through a Fort Worth call center that someone quickly recognized as a poisonous carbon monoxide leak." — Cracked <Phantom_Hoover> Odd, that, seeing as carbon monoxide is odourless. <shachaf> That's how they could tell! <shachaf> "Can you smell that?" "No." "Oh no! CO!" +<shachaf> elliott: It can't be as bad as C++. [...] <elliott> Oh, sure, it's better than C++. [...] <elliott> I mean, brainfuck is also better than C++...
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/test Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/vpenis.sh Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@ +#!/bin/sh +echo `uptime|grep days|sed 's/.*up \([0-9]*\) day.*/\1\/10+/'; cat /proc/cpuinfo|grep '^cpu MHz'|awk '{print $4"/30 +";}';free|grep '^Mem'|awk '{print $3"/1024/3+"}'; df -P -k -x nfs | grep -v 1k | awk '{if ($1 ~ "/dev/(scsi|sd)"){ s+= $2} s+= $2;} END {print s/1024/50"/15+70";}'`|bc|sed 's/\(.$\)/.\1cm/'
--- a/wisdom/elliott Sun Apr 08 01:51:18 2012 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/elliott Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -1,1 +1,1 @@ -elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? +elliott threatens to block me all the time anyway.
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/europe Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +Europe is the capital of Hexham.
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/feather Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +see ¯\(°_o)/¯
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/hexham Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +Hexham is a European town. There are five people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Ngevd runs the student board.
--- a/wisdom/itidus20 Sun Apr 08 01:51:18 2012 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/itidus20 Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -1,1 +1,1 @@ -itidus20's entry has been censored. +itidus20 is a 7th dan of broken metaphors.
--- /dev/null Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/logo Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -0,0 +1,1 @@ +The wiki logo is three limes because graue found a picture of three limes and liked it.
--- a/wisdom/monqy Sun Apr 08 01:51:18 2012 +0000 +++ b/wisdom/monqy Sun Apr 08 09:03:26 2012 +0000 @@ -1,1 +1,1 @@ -The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. +hi monqy