--- /dev/null	Thu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000
+++ b/paste/paste.19893	Fri Aug 03 22:25:52 2012 +0000
@@ -0,0 +1,255 @@
+2008-02-16.txt:23:48:08: <Sgeo> Pseudo-TCL?
+2008-02-16.txt:23:54:13: <Sgeo>  What's the difference between ptl and tcl?
+2009-10-27.txt:02:41:06: <Sgeo> Um, it had a program to easily create your own nightclub
+2009-10-27.txt:02:48:18: <Sgeo> I can't remember the platform. Adobe Atmosphere? That unknown nightclub thingy? Flatland?
+2010-05-16.txt:02:22:31: <pikhq> Sgeo_2: I'm saying I liked it better when it was called Tcl.
+2010-08-27.txt:22:25:41: <Sgeo> TCL isn't an esolang?
+2010-08-29.txt:16:10:40: <Sgeo> alise, FightClub is awesome
+2010-08-29.txt:17:10:12: <Sgeo> Obviously, I'm faking all the FightClub stuff just to get alise into Crawl
+2010-08-29.txt:19:46:43: <SgeoN2> Alise, ping me whenbyou request fightclub fights
+2010-09-10.txt:22:30:09: <Sgeo> alise, I'm gonna play with FightClub
+2010-09-17.txt:23:16:22: -!- Sgeo|FsckThatCli has joined #esoteric.
+2010-09-17.txt:23:16:33: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> How much space do the logs take?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:16:44: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> And what was the first Sgep message?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:16:54: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, 170 MB or such, >200 MB when importing it into the db
+2010-09-17.txt:23:17:04: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Meh
+2010-09-17.txt:23:17:15: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Maybe when my computer's working again, I'll play with it
+2010-09-17.txt:23:20:25: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I forgot the password for Sgeo
+2010-09-17.txt:23:20:33: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> So had use Sgep
+2010-09-17.txt:23:20:41: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Eventually remembered Sgeo's password, I think
+2010-09-17.txt:23:20:56: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, what was esoshell?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:21:22: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> 15:37:23 <calamari> ihope: http://esoshell.kidsquid.com/ 15:37:45 <calamari> ihope: it allows you to use certain esoteric languages straight from your web browser
+2010-09-17.txt:23:21:51: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Hmm, so I was on #esoteric before then
+2010-09-17.txt:23:22:10: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> erm, I mean, Freenode
+2010-09-17.txt:23:22:54: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> My first day:
+2010-09-17.txt:23:23:10: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Harbringer of things to come?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:23:11: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> 17:19:29 <Sgep> PESOIX?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:23:41: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, what was PESOIX?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:23:52: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Inspiration for PSOX
+2010-09-17.txt:23:24:13: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Story of the name PSOX:
+2010-09-17.txt:23:24:18: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Increment PESOIX to PESOX
+2010-09-17.txt:23:24:45: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Hear complains about the name being too similar, so go with phonetics: P-ESO-X = P S O X
+2010-09-17.txt:23:25:20: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Well, P-ES-O-X I guess
+2010-09-17.txt:23:26:13: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> What do you mean, I don't ask too many questions?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:30:20: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli feels like plotting 4-dimensional graphs
+2010-09-17.txt:23:31:16: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, you asked quite a few. Hm should do questions / total lines
+2010-09-17.txt:23:31:53: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> What's that LIMIT 20 for?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:33:28: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> How about fractions for nonbots?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:35:46: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Dear Puppy Linux:
+2010-09-17.txt:23:35:54: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Closing the lid should not put the computer to sleep
+2010-09-17.txt:23:37:32: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli might be suffering from question poisoning
+2010-09-17.txt:23:37:43: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: no: we're the ones suffering. trust me.
+2010-09-17.txt:23:38:27: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli stuffs alise full of iron and throws em at a start
+2010-09-17.txt:23:39:18: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> *star
+2010-09-17.txt:23:39:25: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli chooses the Sun
+2010-09-17.txt:23:40:34: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> It suddenly occurs to me that that will not result in a black hoe
+2010-09-17.txt:23:40:36: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> *hole
+2010-09-17.txt:23:42:53: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, merging sgep* into your stats too your question ratio goes down to 0.223952
+2010-09-17.txt:23:43:24: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> What's Sgep's question ratio?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:43:29: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> By itself?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:44:18: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> We should look for days where for some reason, questioning rations for people, at least one person, are particularly high
+2010-09-17.txt:23:44:39: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I think today's, for example, is a bit high?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:44:45: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Except I'm not me
+2010-09-17.txt:23:44:57: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, I'm matching on Sgeo% not Sgeo
+2010-09-17.txt:23:45:24: <Vorpal> <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> We should look for days where for some reason, questioning rations for people, at least one person, are particularly high <-- you do that, not me
+2010-09-17.txt:23:48:49: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> ihope and uorygl and Warrigal should be aggregated
+2010-09-17.txt:23:49:22: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> ...
+2010-09-17.txt:23:49:28: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia is WARRIGAL?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:49:50: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: Uhh?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:50:07: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Ok, maybe not
+2010-09-17.txt:23:50:16: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> But just beeping after me pinging Warrigal
+2010-09-17.txt:23:50:58: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> e's connected to a French Freenode server
+2010-09-17.txt:23:51:10: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: irrelevant
+2010-09-17.txt:23:51:45: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli pushes Virus Comix onto quintopia
+2010-09-17.txt:23:52:57: <alise> * Sgeo|FsckThatCli pushes Virus Comix onto quintopia ;; he linked two yesterday :P
+2010-09-17.txt:23:53:28: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Hey, I wasn't there for the first place
+2010-09-17.txt:23:53:45: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: ?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:53:47: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> ?
+2010-09-17.txt:23:53:50: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> ...
+2010-09-17.txt:23:56:37: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> US English grammar rules require punctuation in ", and I can't stand it
+2010-09-17.txt:23:59:10: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Smalltalk is a nice syntax
+2010-09-17.txt:23:59:29: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia, it is obvious that you know no Haskell, Prolog, or Erlang
+2010-09-18.txt:00:00:25: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Well, Erlang and Prolog are kind of, sort of related
+2010-09-18.txt:00:00:49: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli hits zzo38 with a backslash
+2010-09-18.txt:00:00:50: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, only in appearance, not in behaviour.
+2010-09-18.txt:00:01:27: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Haskell is a language that everyone should learn. FOr some weird reason, I really, really want to just TEACH it to someone
+2010-09-18.txt:00:01:30: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Anyone
+2010-09-18.txt:00:01:39: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: i very much doubt you'd be a good teacher
+2010-09-18.txt:00:01:58: <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli
ACTION OUCH

+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:00: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, the basics?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:14: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> zzo38 typoed his /me
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:21: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: he doesn't have a /me
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:24: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Exactly
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:29: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> He typoed manually doing a /me
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:36: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> oh
+2010-09-18.txt:00:02:44: <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: No, I meant to type it that way
+2010-09-18.txt:00:03:11: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I can vouch for this client not supporting it
+2010-09-18.txt:00:04:55: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli should make the Factor library support ut
+2010-09-18.txt:00:04:56: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> *it
+2010-09-18.txt:00:05:09: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> MORE UNSOLICITATED COMMENTS ABOUT FACTOR!
+2010-09-18.txt:00:05:46: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I've lied in bed eyes closed dead tired but fully awake
+2010-09-18.txt:00:05:49: <Vorpal> <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli[0001]ACTION OUCH[0001] ?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:06:38: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> You should use PSOX syntax!
+2010-09-18.txt:00:06:54: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> PSOX > *
+2010-09-18.txt:00:07:00: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> And PSOX2 will be turing-complete
+2010-09-18.txt:00:07:37: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Not when it makes HQ9+ +PSOX2 be turing-complete
+2010-09-18.txt:00:07:47: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> (Note: This was a real idea. It's vaguely scrapped)
+2010-09-18.txt:00:08:33: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, and the language can't do thsoe
+2010-09-18.txt:00:09:31: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli pokes alise with one of Factor's predicate classes
+2010-09-18.txt:00:09:47: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Although any similarity with dependent types is superficial
+2010-09-18.txt:00:10:55: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Well, that's interesting
+2010-09-18.txt:00:11:01: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Maybe I should learn about Coq
+2010-09-18.txt:00:11:27: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I vaguely feel like I'm switching my love back to Haskell
+2010-09-18.txt:00:12:04: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> The thing that drove me away from Haskell last time was things like zippers. It should not be a headache to implement things that are easy imperitively
+2010-09-18.txt:00:12:46: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> What's the equiv for SQLite?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:13:29: <fizzie> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: "Do it in the client app" is, I think, pretty much it.
+2010-09-18.txt:00:13:59: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I think SQLite has triggers though>?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:14:55: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Someone should work out if it's TC
+2010-09-18.txt:00:16:03: <fizzie> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: It has a bit nonstandard implementation of triggers; you could get top-N-per-month with those, assuming the triggers are allowed to write to other tables. It still won't be a single query, though.
+2010-09-18.txt:00:16:21: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Can triggers trigger triggers?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:17:04: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia, are you guessing?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:17:36: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I don't get it. is alise suggesting that Lisp isn't easy to understand?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:17:53: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I think I can read Lisp better than Factor
+2010-09-18.txt:00:18:33: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I'm not thinking about solutions to the problem
+2010-09-18.txt:00:18:47: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I'm wondering if programming in SQLite/Triggers would be interesting
+2010-09-18.txt:00:21:14: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> .
+2010-09-18.txt:00:27:52: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> .
+2010-09-18.txt:00:28:45: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, stop the reciting of the Befunge-98 spec
+2010-09-18.txt:00:29:02: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: Vorpal did that word-per-line thing earlier today.
+2010-09-18.txt:00:29:34: <Vorpal> <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: Vorpal did that word-per-line thing earlier today. <-- hm, which one. or did you mean fizzie that did the graphs for that
+2010-09-18.txt:00:29:57: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> W
+2010-09-18.txt:00:29:58: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> e
+2010-09-18.txt:00:29:59: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> l
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:00: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> l
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:00: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli>  
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:02: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:03: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli>  
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:04: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> c
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:05: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> a
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:06: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> n
+2010-09-18.txt:00:30:13: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli stops
+2010-09-18.txt:00:31:08: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli wonders how long Befunge-98 would be 1 char/line
+2010-09-18.txt:00:31:17: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I mean, timewise
+2010-09-18.txt:00:31:19: <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, run wc -c on it
+2010-09-18.txt:00:31:28: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> wc -c * what?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:32:31: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Might the unary be longer than what the universe can store?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:34:35: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Ok, so: What did alise actually print?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:35:02: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Aww, don't worry, Bender. There's no such thing as 2
+2010-09-18.txt:00:35:18: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia: but at the point he was kicked, what's the result
+2010-09-18.txt:00:36:26: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> because
+2010-09-18.txt:00:36:54: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> color stripping, I think
+2010-09-18.txt:00:37:14: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli wants to watch stripping in color >.>
+2010-09-18.txt:00:37:38: <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: is there anything you can't turn into an inane sexual reference?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:38:13: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> It's weird, there was a time that I'd never make a sexual reference
+2010-09-18.txt:00:39:04: <Vorpal> <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: is there anything you can't turn into an inane sexual reference? <-- no, but I invoke rule 34 on inane sexual references
+2010-09-18.txt:00:39:50: <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> A naked superintelligent shade of the color blue?
+2010-09-18.txt:00:41:58: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli watches Vorpal run into the userlist
+2010-09-18.txt:00:43:21: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli feeds alise a cursed fortune cookie
+2010-09-18.txt:00:46:29: * Sgeo|FsckThatCli plays flash Portal
+2010-09-18.txt:00:59:45: -!- Sgeo|FsckThatCli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
+2010-10-16.txt:18:56:49: <Sgeo> FightClub is gone! C_SPLAT is gone!
+2012-02-24.txt:01:56:11: <Sgeo> Lisp or Tcl?
+2012-04-21.txt:03:43:11: <Sgeo> elliott, FooTV and Fightclub moved to termcast.something
+2012-07-03.txt:16:40:38: <Sgeo> On the one hand, I'm curious about Tcl, on the other, I think some people consider it terrible
+2012-07-03.txt:16:43:55: <Sgeo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/99681/why-wont-tcl-die
+2012-07-03.txt:16:44:08: <Sgeo> " If you never really liked shell-script (or make, for that matter), you'll probably dislike Tcl"
+2012-07-03.txt:17:05:24: <Sgeo> Installing ActiveTcl
+2012-07-03.txt:18:12:07: <Sgeo> My impression of Tcl so far is that it's probably a very suitable language for a "malicious code that looks like innocent code" contest
+2012-07-03.txt:18:21:48: <Sgeo> Richard Stallman hates Tcl?
+2012-07-03.txt:18:34:21: <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, yes, because as far as I know Tcl isn't proprietary
+2012-07-03.txt:19:04:40: <Sgeo> "F'rinstance, Tcl's support for lambda expressions is weak to nonexistant; OTOH, command prefixes as higher-order functions work rather well."
+2012-07-03.txt:20:20:41: <Sgeo> I think that's a good description of Tcl in general.
+2012-07-04.txt:06:34:43: * Sgeo vaguely wonders what elliott thinks of Tcl
+2012-07-04.txt:08:07:17: <Sgeo> Tcl seems like it might be a good language for a codenomic
+2012-07-09.txt:21:31:33: <Sgeo> Although I've looked at Tcl, and I know that's not really well liked. Although it's not bad like COBOL
+2012-07-09.txt:23:57:46: <Sgeo> Is it reasonable to want to make a non-eggdrop bot in Tcl?
+2012-07-12.txt:02:03:16: <Sgeo> Just encountered an advantage that Lisp-style macros have over Tcl-style... thingy
+2012-07-12.txt:02:48:44: <Sgeo> Why why why would a Tcl'er joke about Lisp like _that_
+2012-07-12.txt:02:48:53: <Sgeo> I mean, in that regard, Tcl and Lisp are rather close
+2012-07-12.txt:07:45:22: <Sgeo_> There's at least two such things for Tcl
+2012-07-12.txt:19:05:30: <Sgeo_> pikhq_, are there any good reason for Tcl arrays to not be first-class?
+2012-07-12.txt:19:06:01: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Yes: Tcl "arrays" are nothing more than variables with a certain class of names.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:06:55: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: In *principle*, Tcl could be implemented without them actually existing. The array proc would just have to do more work.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:07:50: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Tcl arrays are hash tables.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:13:15: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Everything in Tcl is a string. Some commands happen to treat strings in a particular way. The Tcl implementation stores strings in a format more convenient for those commands as an implementation detail.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:14:08: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Even friggin' *numbers* aren't really first-class in Tcl. They're just strings containing digits.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:19:02: <Sgeo_> Apparently Tcl 8.6's OO is based on XOTcl
+2012-07-12.txt:19:20:29: <Sgeo_> Why would it be a pain to use straight if it's XOTcl-inspired? Missing a few XOTcl features, but is XOTcl a pain?
+2012-07-12.txt:19:32:08: <Sgeo_> pikhq_, why does the Tcl community love Metakit so much, and why aren't there Metakit bindings into languages other than Python Tcl and I forget the third?
+2012-07-12.txt:19:33:26: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: It's friggin' handy being able to stick a Tcl app into a single binary.
+2012-07-12.txt:19:34:47: <Sgeo_> I think the Tcl app in a single binary thing is one of the things drawing me to Tcl actually
+2012-07-12.txt:19:40:45: <Sgeo_> "Tcllib has an approximatley yearly release schedule. Version 1.10 has been released September 12, 2007."
+2012-07-12.txt:19:47:24: <Sgeo_> Would Snit need to exist if there was one Tcl OO system from the start?
+2012-07-12.txt:19:48:03: <Sgeo_> If there was one Tcl OO system, there wouldn't be competing systems to treat identically
+2012-07-12.txt:20:19:59: <Sgeo_> pikhq, is it fair to say that it's impossible to have an object capability system in Tcl because any unique object could be brute-forced?
+2012-07-12.txt:20:22:53: <Sgeo_> pikhq_, is there a reason tcllib has two different OO libraries?
+2012-07-12.txt:20:24:22: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: If it's a pure Tcl library, it can go in Tcllib. There's not much vetting for redundancy.
+2012-07-13.txt:01:04:38: <Sgeo_> pikhq, why are there no Tcl "data structures" that map cleanly to a bunch of Tcl commands?
+2012-07-13.txt:01:04:57: <Sgeo_> Lists are good for one Tcl command, thus making construction with [list ... ] simple
+2012-07-13.txt:01:45:42: <Sgeo_> Why am I still looking at Tcl instead of Lisp?
+2012-07-13.txt:05:11:24: <Sgeo_> "Tcl is formally just as powerful since everything is a string, but it is usually not practical to have Tcl code take Tcl scripts apart and modified, since there are few facilities available out of the box for handling Tcl scripts at a higher level than as a string of characters (there are packages for higher level handling, however)."
+2012-07-13.txt:05:18:46: <pikhq> Sgeo_: Incidentally, all valid Tcl scripts are also valid Tcl lists.
+2012-07-13.txt:05:20:30: <pikhq> Sgeo_: Tcl metaprogramming eventually gets kinda weird.
+2012-07-13.txt:05:22:58: <Sgeo_> So why am I looking at Tcl? I think the whole starpack and Tk and event loop thing is drawing me in
+2012-07-21.txt:05:38:56: <Sgeo_> Geez, I can't even write a simple Tcl script without encountering a bug which static typing would have caught
+2012-07-21.txt:05:49:15: <Sgeo_> Tcl does seem nice for simple scripting
+2012-07-21.txt:05:50:16: <Sgeo_> Is Tcl more consistent than Bash?
+2012-07-21.txt:05:50:26: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm says yes.
+2012-07-21.txt:05:52:18: <Sgeo_> I think I'm falling back in love with Tcl
+2012-07-22.txt:08:01:45: <Sgeo_> I find it remarkably easy to write one very trivial script in Tcl, and suddenly I like it?
+2012-07-22.txt:08:45:18: <Sgeo_> "Don't give your wish scripts the same name as any of the widgets provided by Tk. It will cause problems with wish trying to apply options for those widgets to your program as a whole. Try the file name example.tcl."
+2012-07-22.txt:09:58:31: <Sgeo_> Seeing Ruby's Fibers seemed cool. Then zzo38's thing for Haskell. Then Tcl.
+2012-07-22.txt:21:57:55: <Sgeo_> Suddenly I'm slightly sad that Tcl doesn't have infinite-length strings
+2012-07-22.txt:21:59:25: <Sgeo_> I still think that Tcl is interesting
+2012-07-22.txt:22:01:54: <Sgeo_> I sort of like how Tcl, if someone wants to do byref stuff, requires explicitness on both sides
+2012-07-22.txt:22:03:58: * Sgeo_ vaguely wonders if upvar has other uses in Tcl
+2012-07-22.txt:22:07:32: <Sgeo_> On the other hand, calling such a function in Tcl is less syntactically ugly than in C#
+2012-07-22.txt:22:10:03: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: upvar can seek up to an arbitrary point in the stack. With some nasty, nasty hacking you could get it so you could pretend to have dynamic scope in Tcl.
+2012-07-22.txt:22:13:20: <pikhq_> Sgeo_: proc bar {set x foo; foo};proc foo {puts $x};bar in a dynamic-scoped Tcl would work.
+2012-07-22.txt:22:21:44: <Sgeo_> The corresponding feature in Tcl is probably more frequently used
+2012-07-22.txt:22:35:01: <Sgeo_> Tcl seems to be more introspectiony, I guess?
+2012-07-23.txt:02:45:02: <Sgeo_> The Tcl solution to "I don't like global variables" seems to be namespaces
+2012-07-23.txt:02:59:00: <Sgeo_> I'm wondering if Tcl's love of global variables in namespaces should be enough to keep me away or not
+2012-07-23.txt:03:01:55: <Sgeo_> I wonder how easy/difficult it would be to do some sort of lens thing in Tcl
+2012-07-24.txt:02:07:34: <Sgeo_> Eek, I think Tcl is making me think in terms of global variables more :/
+2012-07-24.txt:03:27:11: <Sgeo_> Tcl's tracing lets you run code when a specified variable is read from or written to or unset
+2012-07-24.txt:03:29:17: <Sgeo_> Or, well, some thingy like tcllib
+2012-07-24.txt:06:39:07: <pikhq> Sgeo_: Basically, variable tracing in Tcl is on par with ptrace for Linux binaries. It'll work, but it's Nasty™.
+2012-07-24.txt:12:22:57: <Sgeo_> `run tclsh
+2012-07-29.txt:00:45:05: <Sgeo_> Annoying thing about Tcl: Libraries that use callbacks can take the callbacks in several different forms, some of which are harder to deal with than others
+2012-07-29.txt:00:45:18: <Sgeo_> The irc package in tcllib takes scripts
+2012-07-29.txt:05:03:06: <Sgeo_> The irc package in tcllib is disgustingly low-level
+2012-07-29.txt:12:44:34: <Sgeo_> At least in TCL
+2012-07-30.txt:09:26:23: * Sgeo__ vaguely wonders what metaprogramming is like in Lua compared to Tcl
+2012-07-30.txt:10:25:10: <Sgeo__> I just helped someone in #tcl
+2012-07-30.txt:14:30:10: <Sgeo__> I am beginning to hate the Tcl ecosystem
+2012-07-30.txt:15:07:24: <Sgeo__> nortti, I was forced to use an obsolete tDOm because I couldn't get TclXml working with tclkit and I couldn't find a newish tdom.kit
+2012-08-01.txt:14:14:58: * Sgeo ponders automatic resource management in Tcl
+2012-08-01.txt:14:15:25: <Sgeo> Current opinion about suckiest thing in Tcl: The lack of said resource management.
+2012-08-01.txt:21:08:32: <Sgeo> I should try writing a general using proc for Tcl
+2012-08-01.txt:21:18:34: <Sgeo> Unlike many languages I look at, I actually wrote a program to do something useful in Tcl.
+2012-08-02.txt:12:55:31: <Sgeo_> Whenever I look at Tcl, I keep thinking that I should be looking at Lisp
+2012-08-02.txt:12:57:53: <Sgeo_> http://wiki.tcl.tk/13410
+2012-08-02.txt:12:58:34: <Sgeo_> As interesting as most of that is, "OMG YOU DON'T NEED TO CALL ANY FUNCTIONS TO SERIALIZE TCL DATA STRUCTURES" is ... not at all impressive
+2012-08-02.txt:13:03:27: <Sgeo_> Bash has arrays? Are they like Tcl's arrays?
+2012-08-02.txt:13:03:46: <Sgeo_> You do need to call something to serialize Tcl's arrays since they're not first-class
+2012-08-02.txt:13:04:30: <Sgeo_> Fine, here's a good difference between Bash and Tcl: Bash has ``, Tcl has []
+2012-08-02.txt:19:26:59: <Sgeo_> shachaf, what's your opinion of Tcl?
+2012-08-03.txt:02:16:17: <Sgeo_> Smalltalk and Tcl at least
+2012-08-03.txt:02:16:28: <Sgeo_> Although the Tcl ones probably aren't well-maintained
+2012-08-03.txt:12:07:26: <Sgeo__> TclTalk seems fun
+2012-08-03.txt:12:16:20: <Sgeo__> Ugh, it uses a non-Tcl-standard way of initializing variables in namespaces
+2012-08-03.txt:12:17:48: <Sgeo__> Bluh, the single-dispatchness of Tcl OO systems in general is striking me again
+2012-08-03.txt:13:02:55: <Sgeo__> Just because I like TclTalk doesn't mean I should start looking at Smalltalk again, does it
+2012-08-03.txt:13:19:37: <Sgeo__> Taneb, you should learn Tcl
+2012-08-03.txt:13:20:26: <Sgeo__> http://www.tcl.tk/
+2012-08-03.txt:14:53:24: <Sgeo__> I think I know how to give Tcl CL-style conditions.
+2012-08-03.txt:18:11:02: <Sgeo__> Hmm, C can be compiled to LLVM, right? So Tcl?
+2012-08-03.txt:18:12:03: <pikhq_> Sgeo__: There's already some work on Tcl in NaCl, BTW.
+2012-08-03.txt:18:13:47: <Sgeo__> Tcl > Javascript?
+2012-08-03.txt:20:30:00: <Sgeo__> pikhq, what do you think of this? (In #tcl person who'd rather see 8.6 released ASAP even if coredumps occur)
+2012-08-03.txt:21:36:01: <Sgeo> So was thinking Tcl instead of Haskell
+2012-08-03.txt:21:44:01: <Sgeo> And being told not to try using a seemingly useful Tcl command because it's likely to be buggy, and I might cause a core dump and if that happens, then they'll have to fix it which will delay release
+2012-08-03.txt:22:01:25: <itidus21> `pastelogs <sgeo.*tcl
+2012-08-03.txt:22:02:07: <itidus21> `pastelogs <sgeo.*tcl
+2012-08-03.txt:22:25:41: <itidus21> `pastelogs sgeo.*tcl