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2004-11-04.txt:22:52:59: <cpressey_> hello :)
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2004-11-05.txt:00:16:25: <cpressey> yep
2004-11-08.txt:03:57:21: <cpressey> heatsink: re type inference: the dragon book contains a good description & algorithm
2004-11-08.txt:03:58:42: <cpressey> np
2004-11-08.txt:03:58:57: <cpressey> it still took me a loooong time to figure out exactly what was going on with it :)
2004-11-08.txt:03:59:20: <cpressey> replacing the greek letters with T1, T2, T3 and walking myself through abunch of examples seemed to help
2004-11-08.txt:04:02:47: <cpressey> no
2004-11-08.txt:04:03:44: <cpressey> word-final :)
2004-11-08.txt:04:03:46: <cpressey> cute
2004-11-08.txt:04:06:31: <cpressey> silly textbook publishers.
2004-11-08.txt:04:06:34: <cpressey> anyway, i have to be off
2004-11-08.txt:04:06:37: <cpressey> catch you later.
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2004-12-18.txt:01:58:35: <cpressey> i would've though perl would be perfectly apropos for a language called "Argh!"
2004-12-18.txt:02:31:47: <cpressey> ah.  i'm not familiar with that one.
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2004-12-25.txt:00:11:46: <cpressey> nooga: the interpreting loop of befunge is iterative, like:  while(!done) { execute_at(x,y); x+=dx; y+=dy; }
2004-12-25.txt:00:14:15: <cpressey> i wasn't here earlier :)
2004-12-25.txt:00:18:39: <cpressey> yeah.  >, for example, sets dx=1 and dy=0
2004-12-25.txt:00:45:25: <cpressey> no problem
2004-12-29.txt:19:24:49: <cpressey> calamari_: hi
2004-12-29.txt:19:27:06: <cpressey> :)
2004-12-29.txt:19:27:22: <cpressey> i haven't done anything with esolangs in a looong while.
2004-12-29.txt:19:27:38: <cpressey> well, nothing of note anyway.
2004-12-29.txt:19:28:02: <cpressey> yeah, i saw... bf OS, huh?  very cool :)
2004-12-29.txt:19:32:49: <cpressey> i've been pondering ideas for how to get esolangs to talk to the outside world, which is something an eso OS would need.
2004-12-29.txt:19:33:52: <cpressey> the only thing most esolangs have in common is the standard input/output, so i was thinking, some kind of escape sequence through it would be the best way.
2004-12-29.txt:19:34:06: <cpressey> for example, output control-E, then a couple of bytes
2004-12-29.txt:19:35:42: <cpressey> yeah.  one problem is that there is really no good way for a program to 'detect' whether it's runing under this system or not.  but otherwise, i can't think of a better way.  adding instructions to the language is ugly IMHO, and it doesn't really apply cross-linguistically, so there'd be no consistency for an e.g. befunge or malbolge OS
2004-12-29.txt:19:40:10: <cpressey> right.  but if the only way to communicate back to the program is through standard input, the "installation check" in this case has to read from standard input.  and if it's not running under the eso system, well, it waits for a key :) which isn't pretty, but i suppose it works alright
2004-12-29.txt:19:41:05: <cpressey> the other problem is that output of arbitrary binary data might trigger the 'escape codes' accidentally
2004-12-29.txt:19:41:31: <cpressey> but otoh, these are esolangs, so we don't have to look at these as problems per se, they can be 'fun features'!
2004-12-29.txt:19:41:37: <cpressey> :)
2004-12-29.txt:19:44:16: <cpressey> i was meaning to, but it's a big project and i never found the time.
2004-12-29.txt:19:44:47: <cpressey> i did do some work on a program that would intercept and translate another program's I/O, but it's only partly done and only works on unix
2004-12-29.txt:19:48:34: <cpressey> heh
2004-12-29.txt:19:49:12: <cpressey> right, i didn't consider that what you meant by "bootable bf interpreter" must have been bf-in-the-bootblock :)
2004-12-29.txt:19:50:05: <cpressey> the nice thing about escape sequences is that as long as there's an unassigned code somewhere they can be extended
2004-12-29.txt:19:50:33: <cpressey> so, yeah.  this could be fun, i might turn my attention to it again if i can find the time...
2004-12-29.txt:19:51:58: <cpressey> yep, me too.  ttyl.
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2005-03-03.txt:20:57:36: <cpressey> wumpus and flip are good candidates.
2005-03-04.txt:00:28:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: jeffry was working on something like this.
2005-03-04.txt:00:28:36: <cpressey> damn, what's his nick again.... caligari, i think?
2005-03-04.txt:00:28:49: <cpressey> that's it, thanks :)
2005-03-04.txt:00:33:50: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: afaik, he's working on it as a full-fledged operating system.
2005-03-04.txt:00:34:17: <cpressey> but the layer is just a protocol, it could be implemented for other os'es...
2005-03-04.txt:00:34:31: <cpressey> the useful thing would be to have the same protocol
2005-03-04.txt:00:34:51: <cpressey> dare i say "standardized"...?  no, i daren't.  :)
2005-03-04.txt:00:47:45: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: found the BOS section of his site and it does look interesting, would have never thought of implementing low level disk access and stuff
2005-03-05.txt:20:29:25: <cpressey> such are the limits of most people's ability to code in brainfuck, i suppose :)
2005-03-05.txt:20:31:19: <cpressey> heh :) i like to think of it this way: being able to write complex brainfuck programs is not the kind of clever i am :)
2005-03-05.txt:20:31:41: <cpressey> ok, that grammar sounded a lot better in my head than it did in text, but you get the idea.
2005-03-05.txt:20:43:14: <cpressey> i think calculating pi requires more number theory type knowledge than brainfuck programming ability anyway.
2005-03-05.txt:20:44:30: <cpressey> and yeah, a _real_ tutorial would be nice.  something that demonstrates that it really is just as computationally powerful as java, or whatever is on most coder's minds these days.
2005-03-05.txt:22:07:57: <cpressey> the horrific part would be the stack management, i think :)
2005-03-05.txt:22:08:37: <cpressey> hi lament 
2005-03-05.txt:22:17:29: <cpressey> like calamari's eso-os?
2005-03-05.txt:22:21:08: <cpressey> like #!/usr/local/bin/bf ?
2005-03-05.txt:22:21:23: <cpressey> except make some wrapper that strips out the first line of text
2005-03-05.txt:22:22:39: <cpressey> mod_bf is kind of lame from what i hear
2005-03-05.txt:22:25:30: <cpressey> yo calamari :)
2005-03-05.txt:22:52:36: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: is calamari's EsoAPI like what you had in mind?
2005-03-05.txt:22:53:35: <cpressey> how so?
2005-03-05.txt:22:57:36: <cpressey> hmm.  well, it could be extended, obviously.
2005-03-05.txt:22:57:47: <cpressey> my criticism of it as it stands is that it's not quite general enough.
2005-03-05.txt:22:59:48: <cpressey> right, that's what i meant.
2005-03-05.txt:23:00:03: <cpressey> having the return code appear in a memory location isn't general enough, for example.
2005-03-05.txt:23:00:13: <cpressey> you might not have memory locations :)
2005-03-05.txt:23:00:19: <cpressey> it should appear on the input channel...
2005-03-05.txt:23:02:51: <cpressey> well, there's an issue of opacity.  it would be nice for the layer to be able to work with existing interpreters without modifying them, meaning, you couldn't play with the memory locations directly anyway.
2005-03-05.txt:23:08:39: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's still not quite general enough for my taste.
2005-03-05.txt:23:17:30: <cpressey> but, until i write something up, my taste is a moot point :)
2005-03-05.txt:23:17:35: <cpressey> i'll write something up.
2005-03-05.txt:23:24:28: <cpressey> like EsoAPI, but more general.  a layer that lives between the i/o and the os, that translates special input/output to/from the program, into system calls.
2005-03-05.txt:23:30:50: <cpressey> cool.
2005-03-05.txt:23:37:16: <cpressey> hmm, i don't think of it that way.  it's essentially a protocol; it _should_ be public.
2005-03-05.txt:23:37:54: <cpressey> if the internet didn't have peer-reviewed rfc's, the world would be a mess :)
2005-03-05.txt:23:38:07: <cpressey> of course, this is esoteric programming, so you could easily make a counter argument...
2005-03-05.txt:23:38:30: <cpressey> that things should be as obscure as possible ;)
2005-03-06.txt:01:55:39: <cpressey> ok, i wrote something up.
2005-03-06.txt:01:55:43: <cpressey> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/pesoix/doc/pesoix.html
2005-03-06.txt:02:21:33: <cpressey> ok, cool!  i've added it.
2005-03-06.txt:02:24:28: <cpressey> yeah
2005-03-06.txt:02:24:48: <cpressey> i don't know yet
2005-03-06.txt:02:27:07: <cpressey> well, EsoAPI has the first few 'non banked' commands.  Easel has (so far) banks 01, 02, and 03 (which conflict with EsoAPI).  and i threw in bank 10
2005-03-06.txt:02:27:10: <cpressey> (all in hex)
2005-03-06.txt:02:28:19: <cpressey> there could in theory be an unlimited number of api calls, if one of the banks admits sub-banks (and one of those sub-banks admits sub-sub-banks, etc)
2005-03-06.txt:02:30:45: <cpressey> well, i'd like all the 'common' api sections to be only 1 bank deep, and have anything deeper reserved for 'vendor extensions' :)
2005-03-06.txt:02:31:35: <cpressey> the low-level disk access doesn't have to be real... it could be emulated.  or more simply, those commands could just be reserved for EsoAPI
2005-03-06.txt:02:32:06: <cpressey> since the low-level stuff is mostly useful for booting anyway.
2005-03-06.txt:02:33:23: <cpressey> i worry that calamari's boot block doesn't have enough space left in it to parse a bank number :)
2005-03-06.txt:02:41:10: <cpressey> hmmm, a modal api :)  actually, that probably makes the most sense.  and it's even ugly enough to be kind of esoteric!
2005-03-06.txt:02:41:22: <cpressey> i'll think about it for a bit.
2005-03-06.txt:02:42:23: <cpressey> heh
2005-03-06.txt:03:02:49: <cpressey> ok, i like the idea of different 'dialects' (with the default dialect being the BOS aka EsoAPI dialect), and a command to switch between dialects.  but the command to switch between dialects should probably be the same in every dialect, or chaos will ensue
2005-03-06.txt:03:02:58: <cpressey> (not that that's _necessarily_ bad, mind you :)
2005-03-06.txt:03:03:28: <cpressey> and if a particular implementation doesn't support a particular dialect, well, that's ok.  but it needs to notify the program of that.
2005-03-06.txt:03:05:03: <cpressey> essentially, yeah.  the important thing is that it allows for more overlap.
2005-03-06.txt:03:08:14: <cpressey> yep.
2005-03-06.txt:03:08:28: <cpressey> btw, nice website :)
2005-03-06.txt:03:09:12: <cpressey> "*** Winner of the 2204 2k Classic Text Adventure Competition ***" - heh, are you a time traveller? :)
2005-03-06.txt:03:11:09: <cpressey> hehe
2005-03-06.txt:03:29:48: <cpressey> g'night :)
2005-03-06.txt:03:29:53: <cpressey> i'll work on it a bit more too...
2005-03-06.txt:03:30:06: <cpressey> 00 09 sounds good to me
2005-03-06.txt:07:47:31: <{^Raven^}> have completed a working PESOIX source as per the cpressey's specs
2005-03-06.txt:07:54:33: <cpressey> hi
2005-03-06.txt:07:54:41: <cpressey> i've implemented something too
2005-03-06.txt:07:54:52: <cpressey> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/esobrace/src/esobrace.c
2005-03-06.txt:07:55:34: <cpressey> all it does is recognize the SWITCH DIALECT command and acknowledge it, right now
2005-03-06.txt:07:55:39: <cpressey> but it's a nice start imo :)
2005-03-06.txt:07:56:23: <cpressey> the issues with buffered i/o are a little more painful than i even expected (and i expected quite a bit of pain)
2005-03-06.txt:07:56:33: <cpressey> but i think i can work them into the spec
2005-03-06.txt:07:56:44: <cpressey> but it's almost midnight here, so that'll wait :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:02:08: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: that's a scary bit of code
2005-03-06.txt:08:18:14: <cpressey> that's accounted for, sort of
2005-03-06.txt:08:18:32: <cpressey> you should get a confirmation if a dialect switch is successful
2005-03-06.txt:08:18:59: <cpressey> if you don't you assume the current system doesn't support that dialect
2005-03-06.txt:08:19:16: <cpressey> and so bos only supports one dialect, that;s ok
2005-03-06.txt:08:21:15: <cpressey> still a lot of details to work out :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:22:58: <cpressey> but otherwise yes
2005-03-06.txt:08:24:02: <cpressey> k
2005-03-06.txt:08:24:35: <cpressey> stuck how?
2005-03-06.txt:08:37:01: <{^Raven^}> cpressey has done an impressive job with the specs so far
2005-03-06.txt:08:37:23: <cpressey> my 2c... biggest problem right now is that EsoAPI and Easel both assume the esolang has the concept of a "current cell"... not all of them do
2005-03-06.txt:08:38:07: <calamari> cpressey: esoapi could be made to work with a stack based language as well
2005-03-06.txt:08:38:50: <cpressey> calamari: i'm pushing for working through the i/o channels only.  it's the only thing common enough.
2005-03-06.txt:08:40:20: <cpressey> calamari: although in the case of EsoAPI it's very understandable; the code required to (say) read a disk block in via "standard input" probably wouldn't fit in a boot block nicely :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:40:40: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's a bit more reasonable, yeah
2005-03-06.txt:08:41:09: <calamari> cpressey: the main problem with pure i/o was the installation check.. if I read a byte on a normal bf interp, it is going to hang until I press a key
2005-03-06.txt:08:41:16: <cpressey> although in any case the input routine turns into "do i have something to return? if so return it. if not then do real input"
2005-03-06.txt:08:41:39: <cpressey> calamari: that's sort of unavoidable though
2005-03-06.txt:08:41:48: <calamari> cpressey: not the way I did it :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:42:06: <cpressey> calamari: that's because you know the language will be brainfuck :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:43:22: <cpressey> calamari: what would you use in thue?  or strelnokoff?
2005-03-06.txt:08:43:51: <calamari> cpressey: never heard of them
2005-03-06.txt:08:44:05: <cpressey> also, i don't like the idea of rewriting every esolang interpreter to work with this
2005-03-06.txt:08:44:18: <cpressey> calamari: that only means they're even more esoteric :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:45:32: <cpressey> ok.  i find that acceptable, while i find modifying every interpreter to handle responses (each in a different way depending on the language) to not be acceptable.
2005-03-06.txt:08:45:48: <cpressey> calamari: no, actually you don't.  that's the brace program i'm working on.
2005-03-06.txt:08:47:01: <cpressey> if you want to be friendly, you could output a message first, like: if you are not running under pesoix, press "return" to exit
2005-03-06.txt:08:47:50: <cpressey> no
2005-03-06.txt:08:47:54: <cpressey> it doesn't.
2005-03-06.txt:08:48:36: <cpressey> the esobrace program runs another program (the esolang interpreter) and intercepts its I/O
2005-03-06.txt:08:50:07: <cpressey> yeah, it only works on unix right now, freebsd in particular... porting it to windows might be, ehm, interesting.  (maybe with cygwin)
2005-03-06.txt:08:52:03: <cpressey> should work on modern macs, since they're mostly bsd based.  risc os, no clue :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:52:30: <cpressey> a modified interpreter is a good approach too; the drawback is of course that it's only one language
2005-03-06.txt:08:53:04: <calamari> cpressey: thats also the advantage, though.. because the implementor can make the esoapi calls work in a way consistent with the language
2005-03-06.txt:08:54:10: <cpressey> resulting in 'n' different ways to use the api, as opposed to one :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:55:29: <calamari> (that was to cpressey, sorry my typing is slow)
2005-03-06.txt:08:58:02: <cpressey> calamari: it's not that i want to argue, it's just that there are pros and cons to each approach.  i'll consider both sides and write something up, maybe we can get a better idea about it.  in the very worst case, pesoix can support both... somehow :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:59:17: <cpressey> in the meantime, i need some shuteye :)
2005-03-06.txt:08:59:22: <cpressey> g'night folks!
2005-03-06.txt:21:30:57: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: http://jonripley.com/easel/ep_specs.txt, contains a write up of my ideas for PESOIX specification so far, please read and comment. Thanks
2005-03-07.txt:06:07:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: will do
2005-03-07.txt:14:35:19: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: minor revison to stream IDs
2005-03-07.txt:14:35:56: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: updated version online, Draft Easel API is at http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt
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2005-03-29.txt:12:01:47: * DMM guesses cpressey is Chris Pressey
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2005-04-01.txt:09:01:45: <matricks> yo cpressey, the funge-98 specification doesn't say how wrapping is done if you got a ip delta like (10, 3)
2005-04-06.txt:19:09:28: <cpressey> Keymaker: i've noticed if i reload google's result pages, i get different results.  i think it randomizes them slightly
2005-04-15.txt:01:55:19: <cpressey> fizzie: at first glance I don't see anything that says CHAR_BIT must be finite...
2005-04-15.txt:01:56:12: <cpressey> well, uh... "The value  UCHAR_MAX+1  shall  equal  2  raised  to  the   power CHAR_BIT"... ok, that either presents a small problem, or is just infinite too
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2005-05-01.txt:14:48:43: <pgimeno> cpressey: just curious, will the Cat's Eye pages content include a discussion on the several languages and paradigms, as the original did?
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2005-05-10.txt:17:34:11: <pgimeno> it's in cpressey's site
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