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16 2004-11-04.txt:22:52:59: <cpressey_> hello :)
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17 2004-11-04.txt:22:53:31: -!- cpressey_ is now known as cpressey.
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18 2004-11-05.txt:00:16:25: <cpressey> yep
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19 2004-11-08.txt:03:57:21: <cpressey> heatsink: re type inference: the dragon book contains a good description & algorithm
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20 2004-11-08.txt:03:58:42: <cpressey> np
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21 2004-11-08.txt:03:58:57: <cpressey> it still took me a loooong time to figure out exactly what was going on with it :)
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22 2004-11-08.txt:03:59:20: <cpressey> replacing the greek letters with T1, T2, T3 and walking myself through abunch of examples seemed to help
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23 2004-11-08.txt:04:02:47: <cpressey> no
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24 2004-11-08.txt:04:03:44: <cpressey> word-final :)
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25 2004-11-08.txt:04:03:46: <cpressey> cute
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26 2004-11-08.txt:04:06:31: <cpressey> silly textbook publishers.
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27 2004-11-08.txt:04:06:34: <cpressey> anyway, i have to be off
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28 2004-11-08.txt:04:06:37: <cpressey> catch you later.
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72 2004-12-18.txt:01:58:35: <cpressey> i would've though perl would be perfectly apropos for a language called "Argh!"
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73 2004-12-18.txt:02:31:47: <cpressey> ah. i'm not familiar with that one.
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76 2004-12-25.txt:00:11:46: <cpressey> nooga: the interpreting loop of befunge is iterative, like: while(!done) { execute_at(x,y); x+=dx; y+=dy; }
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77 2004-12-25.txt:00:14:15: <cpressey> i wasn't here earlier :)
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78 2004-12-25.txt:00:18:39: <cpressey> yeah. >, for example, sets dx=1 and dy=0
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79 2004-12-25.txt:00:45:25: <cpressey> no problem
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80 2004-12-29.txt:19:24:49: <cpressey> calamari_: hi
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81 2004-12-29.txt:19:27:06: <cpressey> :)
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82 2004-12-29.txt:19:27:22: <cpressey> i haven't done anything with esolangs in a looong while.
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83 2004-12-29.txt:19:27:38: <cpressey> well, nothing of note anyway.
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84 2004-12-29.txt:19:28:02: <cpressey> yeah, i saw... bf OS, huh? very cool :)
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85 2004-12-29.txt:19:32:49: <cpressey> i've been pondering ideas for how to get esolangs to talk to the outside world, which is something an eso OS would need.
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86 2004-12-29.txt:19:33:52: <cpressey> the only thing most esolangs have in common is the standard input/output, so i was thinking, some kind of escape sequence through it would be the best way.
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87 2004-12-29.txt:19:34:06: <cpressey> for example, output control-E, then a couple of bytes
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88 2004-12-29.txt:19:35:42: <cpressey> yeah. one problem is that there is really no good way for a program to 'detect' whether it's runing under this system or not. but otherwise, i can't think of a better way. adding instructions to the language is ugly IMHO, and it doesn't really apply cross-linguistically, so there'd be no consistency for an e.g. befunge or malbolge OS
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89 2004-12-29.txt:19:40:10: <cpressey> right. but if the only way to communicate back to the program is through standard input, the "installation check" in this case has to read from standard input. and if it's not running under the eso system, well, it waits for a key :) which isn't pretty, but i suppose it works alright
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90 2004-12-29.txt:19:41:05: <cpressey> the other problem is that output of arbitrary binary data might trigger the 'escape codes' accidentally
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91 2004-12-29.txt:19:41:31: <cpressey> but otoh, these are esolangs, so we don't have to look at these as problems per se, they can be 'fun features'!
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92 2004-12-29.txt:19:41:37: <cpressey> :)
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93 2004-12-29.txt:19:44:16: <cpressey> i was meaning to, but it's a big project and i never found the time.
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94 2004-12-29.txt:19:44:47: <cpressey> i did do some work on a program that would intercept and translate another program's I/O, but it's only partly done and only works on unix
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95 2004-12-29.txt:19:48:34: <cpressey> heh
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96 2004-12-29.txt:19:49:12: <cpressey> right, i didn't consider that what you meant by "bootable bf interpreter" must have been bf-in-the-bootblock :)
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97 2004-12-29.txt:19:50:05: <cpressey> the nice thing about escape sequences is that as long as there's an unassigned code somewhere they can be extended
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98 2004-12-29.txt:19:50:33: <cpressey> so, yeah. this could be fun, i might turn my attention to it again if i can find the time...
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99 2004-12-29.txt:19:51:58: <cpressey> yep, me too. ttyl.
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143 2005-03-03.txt:20:57:36: <cpressey> wumpus and flip are good candidates.
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144 2005-03-04.txt:00:28:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: jeffry was working on something like this.
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145 2005-03-04.txt:00:28:36: <cpressey> damn, what's his nick again.... caligari, i think?
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146 2005-03-04.txt:00:28:49: <cpressey> that's it, thanks :)
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147 2005-03-04.txt:00:33:50: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: afaik, he's working on it as a full-fledged operating system.
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148 2005-03-04.txt:00:34:17: <cpressey> but the layer is just a protocol, it could be implemented for other os'es...
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149 2005-03-04.txt:00:34:31: <cpressey> the useful thing would be to have the same protocol
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150 2005-03-04.txt:00:34:51: <cpressey> dare i say "standardized"...? no, i daren't. :)
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151 2005-03-04.txt:00:47:45: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: found the BOS section of his site and it does look interesting, would have never thought of implementing low level disk access and stuff
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152 2005-03-05.txt:20:29:25: <cpressey> such are the limits of most people's ability to code in brainfuck, i suppose :)
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153 2005-03-05.txt:20:31:19: <cpressey> heh :) i like to think of it this way: being able to write complex brainfuck programs is not the kind of clever i am :)
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154 2005-03-05.txt:20:31:41: <cpressey> ok, that grammar sounded a lot better in my head than it did in text, but you get the idea.
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155 2005-03-05.txt:20:43:14: <cpressey> i think calculating pi requires more number theory type knowledge than brainfuck programming ability anyway.
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156 2005-03-05.txt:20:44:30: <cpressey> and yeah, a _real_ tutorial would be nice. something that demonstrates that it really is just as computationally powerful as java, or whatever is on most coder's minds these days.
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157 2005-03-05.txt:22:07:57: <cpressey> the horrific part would be the stack management, i think :)
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158 2005-03-05.txt:22:08:37: <cpressey> hi lament
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159 2005-03-05.txt:22:17:29: <cpressey> like calamari's eso-os?
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160 2005-03-05.txt:22:21:08: <cpressey> like #!/usr/local/bin/bf ?
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161 2005-03-05.txt:22:21:23: <cpressey> except make some wrapper that strips out the first line of text
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162 2005-03-05.txt:22:22:39: <cpressey> mod_bf is kind of lame from what i hear
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163 2005-03-05.txt:22:25:30: <cpressey> yo calamari :)
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164 2005-03-05.txt:22:52:36: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: is calamari's EsoAPI like what you had in mind?
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165 2005-03-05.txt:22:53:35: <cpressey> how so?
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166 2005-03-05.txt:22:57:36: <cpressey> hmm. well, it could be extended, obviously.
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167 2005-03-05.txt:22:57:47: <cpressey> my criticism of it as it stands is that it's not quite general enough.
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168 2005-03-05.txt:22:59:48: <cpressey> right, that's what i meant.
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169 2005-03-05.txt:23:00:03: <cpressey> having the return code appear in a memory location isn't general enough, for example.
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170 2005-03-05.txt:23:00:13: <cpressey> you might not have memory locations :)
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171 2005-03-05.txt:23:00:19: <cpressey> it should appear on the input channel...
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172 2005-03-05.txt:23:02:51: <cpressey> well, there's an issue of opacity. it would be nice for the layer to be able to work with existing interpreters without modifying them, meaning, you couldn't play with the memory locations directly anyway.
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173 2005-03-05.txt:23:08:39: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's still not quite general enough for my taste.
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174 2005-03-05.txt:23:17:30: <cpressey> but, until i write something up, my taste is a moot point :)
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175 2005-03-05.txt:23:17:35: <cpressey> i'll write something up.
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176 2005-03-05.txt:23:24:28: <cpressey> like EsoAPI, but more general. a layer that lives between the i/o and the os, that translates special input/output to/from the program, into system calls.
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177 2005-03-05.txt:23:30:50: <cpressey> cool.
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178 2005-03-05.txt:23:37:16: <cpressey> hmm, i don't think of it that way. it's essentially a protocol; it _should_ be public.
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179 2005-03-05.txt:23:37:54: <cpressey> if the internet didn't have peer-reviewed rfc's, the world would be a mess :)
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180 2005-03-05.txt:23:38:07: <cpressey> of course, this is esoteric programming, so you could easily make a counter argument...
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181 2005-03-05.txt:23:38:30: <cpressey> that things should be as obscure as possible ;)
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182 2005-03-06.txt:01:55:39: <cpressey> ok, i wrote something up.
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183 2005-03-06.txt:01:55:43: <cpressey> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/pesoix/doc/pesoix.html
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184 2005-03-06.txt:02:21:33: <cpressey> ok, cool! i've added it.
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185 2005-03-06.txt:02:24:28: <cpressey> yeah
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186 2005-03-06.txt:02:24:48: <cpressey> i don't know yet
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187 2005-03-06.txt:02:27:07: <cpressey> well, EsoAPI has the first few 'non banked' commands. Easel has (so far) banks 01, 02, and 03 (which conflict with EsoAPI). and i threw in bank 10
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188 2005-03-06.txt:02:27:10: <cpressey> (all in hex)
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189 2005-03-06.txt:02:28:19: <cpressey> there could in theory be an unlimited number of api calls, if one of the banks admits sub-banks (and one of those sub-banks admits sub-sub-banks, etc)
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190 2005-03-06.txt:02:30:45: <cpressey> well, i'd like all the 'common' api sections to be only 1 bank deep, and have anything deeper reserved for 'vendor extensions' :)
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191 2005-03-06.txt:02:31:35: <cpressey> the low-level disk access doesn't have to be real... it could be emulated. or more simply, those commands could just be reserved for EsoAPI
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192 2005-03-06.txt:02:32:06: <cpressey> since the low-level stuff is mostly useful for booting anyway.
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193 2005-03-06.txt:02:33:23: <cpressey> i worry that calamari's boot block doesn't have enough space left in it to parse a bank number :)
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194 2005-03-06.txt:02:41:10: <cpressey> hmmm, a modal api :) actually, that probably makes the most sense. and it's even ugly enough to be kind of esoteric!
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195 2005-03-06.txt:02:41:22: <cpressey> i'll think about it for a bit.
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196 2005-03-06.txt:02:42:23: <cpressey> heh
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197 2005-03-06.txt:03:02:49: <cpressey> ok, i like the idea of different 'dialects' (with the default dialect being the BOS aka EsoAPI dialect), and a command to switch between dialects. but the command to switch between dialects should probably be the same in every dialect, or chaos will ensue
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198 2005-03-06.txt:03:02:58: <cpressey> (not that that's _necessarily_ bad, mind you :)
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199 2005-03-06.txt:03:03:28: <cpressey> and if a particular implementation doesn't support a particular dialect, well, that's ok. but it needs to notify the program of that.
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200 2005-03-06.txt:03:05:03: <cpressey> essentially, yeah. the important thing is that it allows for more overlap.
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201 2005-03-06.txt:03:08:14: <cpressey> yep.
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202 2005-03-06.txt:03:08:28: <cpressey> btw, nice website :)
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203 2005-03-06.txt:03:09:12: <cpressey> "*** Winner of the 2204 2k Classic Text Adventure Competition ***" - heh, are you a time traveller? :)
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204 2005-03-06.txt:03:11:09: <cpressey> hehe
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205 2005-03-06.txt:03:29:48: <cpressey> g'night :)
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206 2005-03-06.txt:03:29:53: <cpressey> i'll work on it a bit more too...
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207 2005-03-06.txt:03:30:06: <cpressey> 00 09 sounds good to me
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208 2005-03-06.txt:07:47:31: <{^Raven^}> have completed a working PESOIX source as per the cpressey's specs
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209 2005-03-06.txt:07:54:33: <cpressey> hi
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210 2005-03-06.txt:07:54:41: <cpressey> i've implemented something too
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211 2005-03-06.txt:07:54:52: <cpressey> http://catseye.webhop.net/projects/esobrace/src/esobrace.c
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212 2005-03-06.txt:07:55:34: <cpressey> all it does is recognize the SWITCH DIALECT command and acknowledge it, right now
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213 2005-03-06.txt:07:55:39: <cpressey> but it's a nice start imo :)
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214 2005-03-06.txt:07:56:23: <cpressey> the issues with buffered i/o are a little more painful than i even expected (and i expected quite a bit of pain)
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215 2005-03-06.txt:07:56:33: <cpressey> but i think i can work them into the spec
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216 2005-03-06.txt:07:56:44: <cpressey> but it's almost midnight here, so that'll wait :)
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217 2005-03-06.txt:08:02:08: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: that's a scary bit of code
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218 2005-03-06.txt:08:18:14: <cpressey> that's accounted for, sort of
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219 2005-03-06.txt:08:18:32: <cpressey> you should get a confirmation if a dialect switch is successful
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220 2005-03-06.txt:08:18:59: <cpressey> if you don't you assume the current system doesn't support that dialect
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221 2005-03-06.txt:08:19:16: <cpressey> and so bos only supports one dialect, that;s ok
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222 2005-03-06.txt:08:21:15: <cpressey> still a lot of details to work out :)
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223 2005-03-06.txt:08:22:58: <cpressey> but otherwise yes
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224 2005-03-06.txt:08:24:02: <cpressey> k
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225 2005-03-06.txt:08:24:35: <cpressey> stuck how?
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226 2005-03-06.txt:08:37:01: <{^Raven^}> cpressey has done an impressive job with the specs so far
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227 2005-03-06.txt:08:37:23: <cpressey> my 2c... biggest problem right now is that EsoAPI and Easel both assume the esolang has the concept of a "current cell"... not all of them do
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228 2005-03-06.txt:08:38:07: <calamari> cpressey: esoapi could be made to work with a stack based language as well
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229 2005-03-06.txt:08:38:50: <cpressey> calamari: i'm pushing for working through the i/o channels only. it's the only thing common enough.
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230 2005-03-06.txt:08:40:20: <cpressey> calamari: although in the case of EsoAPI it's very understandable; the code required to (say) read a disk block in via "standard input" probably wouldn't fit in a boot block nicely :)
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231 2005-03-06.txt:08:40:40: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's a bit more reasonable, yeah
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232 2005-03-06.txt:08:41:09: <calamari> cpressey: the main problem with pure i/o was the installation check.. if I read a byte on a normal bf interp, it is going to hang until I press a key
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233 2005-03-06.txt:08:41:16: <cpressey> although in any case the input routine turns into "do i have something to return? if so return it. if not then do real input"
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234 2005-03-06.txt:08:41:39: <cpressey> calamari: that's sort of unavoidable though
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235 2005-03-06.txt:08:41:48: <calamari> cpressey: not the way I did it :)
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236 2005-03-06.txt:08:42:06: <cpressey> calamari: that's because you know the language will be brainfuck :)
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237 2005-03-06.txt:08:43:22: <cpressey> calamari: what would you use in thue? or strelnokoff?
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238 2005-03-06.txt:08:43:51: <calamari> cpressey: never heard of them
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239 2005-03-06.txt:08:44:05: <cpressey> also, i don't like the idea of rewriting every esolang interpreter to work with this
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240 2005-03-06.txt:08:44:18: <cpressey> calamari: that only means they're even more esoteric :)
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241 2005-03-06.txt:08:45:32: <cpressey> ok. i find that acceptable, while i find modifying every interpreter to handle responses (each in a different way depending on the language) to not be acceptable.
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242 2005-03-06.txt:08:45:48: <cpressey> calamari: no, actually you don't. that's the brace program i'm working on.
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243 2005-03-06.txt:08:47:01: <cpressey> if you want to be friendly, you could output a message first, like: if you are not running under pesoix, press "return" to exit
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244 2005-03-06.txt:08:47:50: <cpressey> no
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245 2005-03-06.txt:08:47:54: <cpressey> it doesn't.
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246 2005-03-06.txt:08:48:36: <cpressey> the esobrace program runs another program (the esolang interpreter) and intercepts its I/O
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247 2005-03-06.txt:08:50:07: <cpressey> yeah, it only works on unix right now, freebsd in particular... porting it to windows might be, ehm, interesting. (maybe with cygwin)
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248 2005-03-06.txt:08:52:03: <cpressey> should work on modern macs, since they're mostly bsd based. risc os, no clue :)
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249 2005-03-06.txt:08:52:30: <cpressey> a modified interpreter is a good approach too; the drawback is of course that it's only one language
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250 2005-03-06.txt:08:53:04: <calamari> cpressey: thats also the advantage, though.. because the implementor can make the esoapi calls work in a way consistent with the language
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251 2005-03-06.txt:08:54:10: <cpressey> resulting in 'n' different ways to use the api, as opposed to one :)
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252 2005-03-06.txt:08:55:29: <calamari> (that was to cpressey, sorry my typing is slow)
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253 2005-03-06.txt:08:58:02: <cpressey> calamari: it's not that i want to argue, it's just that there are pros and cons to each approach. i'll consider both sides and write something up, maybe we can get a better idea about it. in the very worst case, pesoix can support both... somehow :)
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254 2005-03-06.txt:08:59:17: <cpressey> in the meantime, i need some shuteye :)
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255 2005-03-06.txt:08:59:22: <cpressey> g'night folks!
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256 2005-03-06.txt:21:30:57: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: http://jonripley.com/easel/ep_specs.txt, contains a write up of my ideas for PESOIX specification so far, please read and comment. Thanks
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257 2005-03-07.txt:06:07:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: will do
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258 2005-03-07.txt:14:35:19: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: minor revison to stream IDs
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259 2005-03-07.txt:14:35:56: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: updated version online, Draft Easel API is at http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt
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260 2005-03-09.txt:01:53:04: -!- cpressey has quit ("leaving").
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261 2005-03-09.txt:02:00:10: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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262 2005-03-17.txt:20:32:28: -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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263 2005-03-17.txt:20:33:01: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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264 2005-03-21.txt:03:17:58: -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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265 2005-03-21.txt:03:22:22: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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266 2005-03-21.txt:22:29:13: -!- cpressey has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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267 2005-03-21.txt:22:31:44: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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268 2005-03-22.txt:08:56:44: -!- cpressey has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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270 2005-03-23.txt:13:17:07: -!- cpressey has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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271 2005-03-23.txt:13:17:13: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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272 2005-03-24.txt:03:33:59: -!- cpressey has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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273 2005-03-24.txt:03:34:25: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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274 2005-03-29.txt:12:01:47: * DMM guesses cpressey is Chris Pressey
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275 2005-03-30.txt:07:02:03: -!- cpressey has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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276 2005-03-30.txt:07:02:52: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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277 2005-04-01.txt:09:01:45: <matricks> yo cpressey, the funge-98 specification doesn't say how wrapping is done if you got a ip delta like (10, 3)
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278 2005-04-06.txt:19:09:28: <cpressey> Keymaker: i've noticed if i reload google's result pages, i get different results. i think it randomizes them slightly
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279 2005-04-15.txt:01:55:19: <cpressey> fizzie: at first glance I don't see anything that says CHAR_BIT must be finite...
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280 2005-04-15.txt:01:56:12: <cpressey> well, uh... "The value UCHAR_MAX+1 shall equal 2 raised to the power CHAR_BIT"... ok, that either presents a small problem, or is just infinite too
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281 2005-04-18.txt:00:12:29: -!- cpressey has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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295 2005-05-01.txt:14:48:43: <pgimeno> cpressey: just curious, will the Cat's Eye pages content include a discussion on the several languages and paradigms, as the original did?
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296 2005-05-03.txt:13:38:09: -!- cpressey has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
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299 2005-05-04.txt:05:21:33: -!- cpressey has joined #esoteric.
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300 2005-05-10.txt:17:34:11: <pgimeno> it's in cpressey's site
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301 [too many lines; stopping]
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