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1 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:15: <elliott> <crystal-cola> the poeple in #python nput me off of python
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2 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:19: <elliott> <crystal-cola> annoyed
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3 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:22: <elliott> <crystal-cola> this channel sucks
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4 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:30: <elliott> <crystal-cola> people are naturally horrible to each other
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5 2011-04-20.txt:17:12:26: <crystal-cola> baez interview yudkowski
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6 2011-04-20.txt:17:13:21: <crystal-cola> elliott
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7 2011-04-20.txt:17:13:30: <crystal-cola> did you read it
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8 2011-04-20.txt:17:14:02: <crystal-cola> baez asks some interesting questions and yudkowski says "I'm writing a book"
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9 2011-04-20.txt:17:14:21: <crystal-cola> http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/this-weeks-finds-week-311/
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10 2011-04-20.txt:17:15:23: <crystal-cola> two parts so far but more to come
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11 2011-04-20.txt:17:15:55: <crystal-cola> why is there no transhumanism IRC
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12 2011-04-20.txt:17:21:23: <crystal-cola> whats up
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13 2011-04-20.txt:17:22:00: <crystal-cola> say something interesting
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14 2011-04-20.txt:17:23:25: <crystal-cola> HRUPHRG
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15 2011-04-20.txt:17:24:00: <crystal-cola> this isn't internet relay programming
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16 2011-04-20.txt:17:30:49: <crystal-cola> ;/
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17 2011-04-20.txt:17:32:03: <crystal-cola> elliott: what's the right thing to do ?
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18 2011-04-20.txt:17:32:25: <crystal-cola> some people think everyone should have fun
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19 2011-04-20.txt:17:39:05: <crystal-cola> so what is the conclusion
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20 2011-04-20.txt:17:39:19: <crystal-cola> I want answers
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21 2011-04-20.txt:17:41:40: <crystal-cola> science is based on the unjustifiable assumption that the world conforms to logic
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22 2011-04-20.txt:17:42:25: <crystal-cola> what wave
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23 2011-04-20.txt:17:42:39: <crystal-cola> I dont know what you mean
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24 2011-04-20.txt:17:43:27: <crystal-cola> bisexual is sexist
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25 2011-04-20.txt:17:44:51: <crystal-cola> bisexuality = mysogeny
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26 2011-04-20.txt:17:46:21: <Gregor> <crystal-cola> bisexuality = mysogeny // lol, I'd love to hear the logic behind this X-D
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27 2011-04-20.txt:17:47:52: <crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity
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28 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:05: <crystal-cola> it is akin to spousal abuse
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29 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:12: <crystal-cola> at a psychosexual level
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30 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:30: <crystal-cola> see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html
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31 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:33: <crystal-cola> bisexuality and feminism
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32 2011-04-20.txt:17:49:02: <crystal-cola> of course I didn't use logic
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33 2011-04-20.txt:17:49:40: <crystal-cola> I don't try to force the false ideals of logic onto everythingg
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34 2011-04-20.txt:17:50:01: <crystal-cola> Gregor: yes but if you read it you'd see that she's completely wrong
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35 2011-04-20.txt:17:50:57: <crystal-cola> There is no reason to use logical or rational thought, the only justification for doing so is because you enjoy it
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36 2011-04-20.txt:17:51:54: <crystal-cola> elliott: Assuming logic is true, then since you used logic your argument is false
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37 2011-04-20.txt:17:52:38: <crystal-cola> I have presented a definitive ``illogical'' refutation of your argument
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38 2011-04-20.txt:17:53:17: <crystal-cola> you're assuming that true = false, that's not provable
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39 2011-04-20.txt:17:53:34: <crystal-cola> So you agree with me
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40 2011-04-20.txt:17:55:12: <crystal-cola> As Ayn Rand said,
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41 2011-04-20.txt:17:56:20: <crystal-cola> bbl
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42 2011-04-20.txt:18:06:59: <crystal-cola> elliott: she said that the universe defines order, so there is no such thing as an unordered universe
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43 2011-04-20.txt:18:08:22: <crystal-cola> why is it meaningless?
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44 2011-04-20.txt:18:09:55: <crystal-cola> "The fake philosophical terminology of mathematical logic has misled philosophers into believing that mathematical logic deals with the truth in the philosophical sense. But this is a mistake. Mathematical logic deals not with the truth, but with the game of truth." - Rota
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45 2011-04-20.txt:18:13:48: <crystal-cola> I don't think it's meaningless. The point is that if you exist in some universe then "order" is whatever you perceive
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46 2011-04-20.txt:18:18:38: <crystal-cola> :/
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47 2011-04-20.txt:18:21:27: <crystal-cola> hello
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48 2011-04-20.txt:18:24:54: <crystal-cola> Underwater creatures
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49 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:15: <crystal-cola> elliott: why aren't you more interesting
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50 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:24: <crystal-cola> all you say is what im bored
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51 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:45: <crystal-cola> you star
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52 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:46: <crystal-cola> t
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53 2011-04-20.txt:18:26:01: <crystal-cola> forth is boring
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54 2011-04-20.txt:18:42:05: <crystal-cola> hello
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55 2011-04-20.txt:20:17:25: <crystal-cola> These individuals are just as emotionally driven and biased as the rest of us, but they're able to generate more and better reasons to explain why they're right—and so their minds become harder to change.
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56 2011-04-20.txt:20:18:10: <crystal-cola> what do you want
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57 2011-04-20.txt:20:20:34: <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism
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58 2011-04-20.txt:20:21:40: <Phantom_Hoover> 20:20:34: <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism
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59 2011-04-20.txt:21:28:59: <crystal-cola> uh
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60 2011-04-20.txt:21:29:00: <crystal-cola> how is that J
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61 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:29: <crystal-cola> you can but.... Y would you?
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62 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:50: <crystal-cola> haskell doesn't need Y combinators, U is enough due to lazyness
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63 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:59: <crystal-cola> fixed point combinators other than Y
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64 2011-04-20.txt:21:35:17: <crystal-cola> not the one I learned in SICP
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65 2011-04-20.txt:21:35:28: <crystal-cola> Y NOT?
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66 2011-04-20.txt:21:37:04: <crystal-cola> lol
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67 2011-04-20.txt:21:38:05: <crystal-cola> The sad thing is most programmers are already ultrafinitists
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68 2011-04-20.txt:21:38:25: <crystal-cola> using languages that dont admit infinite lists and such
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69 2011-04-20.txt:21:40:54: <crystal-cola> rapido: it's the same as all the other diagonalization arguments
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70 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:01: <crystal-cola> If e : N -> (N -> N) is an evaluator and for every function f : N -> N suppose there was a code c : N such that e c = f then let f n = e n n + 1 and x be the code for f then f x = e x x + 1 = f x + 1
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71 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:05: <crystal-cola> therefore 0 = 1
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72 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:40: <crystal-cola> this is standard diagonalization argument like Turin
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73 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:42: <crystal-cola> g
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74 2011-04-20.txt:21:50:26: <crystal-cola> I guess mathematical proof is not enough to convince you
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75 2011-04-20.txt:21:51:26: <crystal-cola> exponentiation isn't total
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76 2011-04-20.txt:21:52:12: <crystal-cola> it grows too fast
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77 2011-04-20.txt:21:52:25: <crystal-cola> there is no evidece that numbers bigger than 1000000000000 can be exponentiated
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78 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:04: <crystal-cola> logic is relevant to this actually
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79 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:17: <crystal-cola> using logic one finds evidence that exponentiation is different
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80 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:52: <crystal-cola> There is no reason anything should be justified
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81 2011-04-20.txt:21:56:07: <crystal-cola> yeah
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82 2011-04-21.txt:11:33:15: <crystal-cola> multiparadigm programming has failed.
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83 2011-04-21.txt:11:33:22: <crystal-cola> Internet chatrooms are virtual meeting places where attitudes are shared, strengthened and validated. In some channels, hackers of hate can sow misinformation about the plight of programmers elsewhere. In our communities, groups and organisations led by young, dynamic innovators promote separatism by encouraging programmers to define themselves solely in terms of their language.
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84 2011-04-21.txt:11:35:36: <crystal-cola> So, let me end with this. This terrorism is completely indiscriminate and has been thrust upon us. It cannot be ignored or contained; we have to confront it with confidence – confront the ideology that drives it by defeating the ideas that warp so many young minds at their root, and confront the issues of identity that sustain it by standing for a much broader and generous vision of programmers in our servers.
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85 2011-04-21.txt:11:36:26: <crystal-cola> Now, none of this will be easy. We will need stamina, patience and SICP, and it won’t happen at all if we act alone. This ideology crosses not just our continent but all continents, and we are all in this together. At stake are not just algorithms, it is our way of expressing algorithms. That is why this is a challenge we cannot avoid; it is one we must rise to and overcome. Thank you.
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86 2011-04-21.txt:11:44:33: <crystal-cola> elliott: Une société qui s’écroule, une économie qui régresse, des appels à toujours plus de contrôles politiques pour juguler ce déclin, la situation actuelle a un goût de déjà-vu. Bien sûr on pense à la crise 1929. Mais c’est en fait à un livre - et désormais un film - qu’il est fait référence ici. Il s’agit d’Atlas Shrugged (la révolte d'Atlas) de la philosophe russo-américaine Ayn Rand, publié en 1957. Ce
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87 2011-04-21.txt:11:52:58: <crystal-cola> Gauss shaves both himself and Bertrand Russell.
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88 2011-04-21.txt:11:53:58: <crystal-cola> For Gauss, correlation implies causation.
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89 2011-04-21.txt:11:54:34: <crystal-cola> Gauss can trisect an angle with a straightedge and compass.
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90 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:38: <crystal-cola> A Malament–Hogarth (M-H) spacetime, named after David B. Malament and Mark Hogarth, is a relativistic spacetime that possesses the following property: there exists a worldline λ and an event p such that all events along λ are a finite interval in the past of p, but the proper time along λ is infinite
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91 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:51: <crystal-cola> The significance of M-H spacetimes is that they allow for the implementation of certain non-Turing computable tasks (hypercomputation). The idea is for an observer at some event in p's past to set a computer (Turing machine) to work on some task and then have the Turing machine travel on λ, computing for all eternity. Since λ lies in p's past, the Turing machine can signal (a solution) to p at any stage of this never-ending task. Meanwhi
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92 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:58: <crystal-cola> The set-up can be used to decide the halting problem
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93 2011-04-21.txt:11:59:39: <crystal-cola> ?
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94 2011-04-21.txt:12:01:57: <crystal-cola> I wonder if you guys are being boring on purpose to make me go away
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95 2011-04-21.txt:12:03:28: <crystal-cola> idk I was trying to raise some topic for discussion
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96 2011-04-21.txt:12:06:11: <crystal-cola> lol
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97 2011-04-21.txt:12:06:21: <crystal-cola> I thought you were really into Ayn Rand
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98 2011-04-21.txt:14:37:03: <crystal-cola> okay I am putting hoover on igonre
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99 2011-04-21.txt:14:37:54: <crystal-cola> the reason people say ayn rand is so rubbish is because they are scared of her ideas taking hold
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100 2011-04-21.txt:14:39:26: <crystal-cola> no
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101 2011-04-21.txt:14:42:58: <crystal-cola> misogeny
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102 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:18: <crystal-cola> that's a sexist spelling
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103 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:37: <crystal-cola> mysogeny
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104 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:46: <crystal-cola> wymen
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105 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:47: <crystal-cola> etc.
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106 2011-04-21.txt:14:45:04: <crystal-cola> See Miller, Casey, Swift - The Handbook of Non-Sexist Language
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107 2011-04-21.txt:14:46:14: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity"
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108 2011-04-21.txt:14:47:07: <Sgeo__> 10:30:43 <crystal-cola> see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html
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109 2011-04-21.txt:14:48:02: <crystal-cola> lol
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110 2011-04-21.txt:14:48:14: <crystal-cola> elliott: good point
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111 2011-04-21.txt:14:50:39: <crystal-cola> it's subjective
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112 2011-04-21.txt:14:51:01: <crystal-cola> gynder
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113 2011-04-21.txt:14:53:52: <crystal-cola> hitler is a fictional person
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114 2011-04-21.txt:14:53:54: <crystal-cola> he never existed
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115 2011-04-21.txt:14:59:54: <crystal-cola> im wondering if hoover is gonna stop being a dick?
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116 2011-04-21.txt:15:00:28: <crystal-cola> elliott: he was being to me
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117 2011-04-21.txt:15:00:47: <crystal-cola> oh now you are being a dick too
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118 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:16: <crystal-cola> shouldn't have brought it up, ill just put him back on ignore and leave it
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119 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:39: <crystal-cola> you said that being a dick to me is not being a dick
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120 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:48: <crystal-cola> that's how I interpreted it
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121 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:26: <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling''
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122 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:44: <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims
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123 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:03: <crystal-cola> answer what?
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124 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:27: <elliott> `addquote <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims
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125 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:28: <HackEgo> 374) <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims
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126 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:30: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity" <<< can you translate this to a language?
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127 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:53: <crystal-cola> oklopol: it's (blatantly) bullshit
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128 2011-04-21.txt:15:04:52: <crystal-cola> what is what?
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129 2011-04-21.txt:15:05:07: <crystal-cola> the quote oklopol pasted
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130 2011-04-21.txt:15:05:32: <crystal-cola> it's just a bunch of garbage some idiot came up with to try to justify a false viewpoint they were entertaining
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131 2011-04-21.txt:15:06:35: <crystal-cola> what do you mean by "a language?"?
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132 2011-04-21.txt:15:07:09: <crystal-cola> I don't think there's any meaning there
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133 2011-04-21.txt:15:08:00: <crystal-cola> you can obviously try to invent some yourself - that's the main reason people say stuff that doesn't mean anything
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134 2011-04-21.txt:15:11:08: <crystal-cola> A starting point might be to speak in abstract syntax rather than text
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135 2011-04-21.txt:15:15:35: <crystal-cola> so any good projects on the go?
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136 2011-04-21.txt:15:15:54: <crystal-cola> like what
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137 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:02: <crystal-cola> I learned a bit about algebraic topology
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138 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:21: <crystal-cola> what does the number of bytes mean?
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139 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:49: <crystal-cola> oh that's cool
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140 2011-04-21.txt:15:17:27: <crystal-cola> I don't know the terminology about automatons
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141 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:18: <crystal-cola> it seems like a good idea but the proofs are horrible
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142 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:26: <crystal-cola> I think it's because the book I looked at sucks
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143 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:59: <crystal-cola> I don't know what you mean? I typed out a bunch of shit then deleted it
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144 2011-04-21.txt:15:20:28: <crystal-cola> it's useless
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145 2011-04-21.txt:15:20:39: <crystal-cola> I learned about cones and direct limits though
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146 2011-04-21.txt:15:21:16: <crystal-cola> you should put lots of old code you've written up on the web
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147 2011-04-21.txt:15:23:03: <crystal-cola> oklopol: so there is a characterization for linear ones already?
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148 2011-04-21.txt:15:23:34: <crystal-cola> wwhat sort of description is it?
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149 2011-04-21.txt:15:24:51: <crystal-cola> did you write a paper on it?
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150 2011-04-21.txt:15:26:01: <crystal-cola> okay
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151 2011-04-21.txt:15:27:20: <crystal-cola> wow
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152 2011-04-21.txt:15:28:28: <crystal-cola> Wow a complexity class that isn't mentioned on complexity zoo
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153 2011-04-21.txt:15:29:05: <crystal-cola> What is FNFA?
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154 2011-04-21.txt:15:30:59: <crystal-cola> why are they equivalent?
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155 2011-04-21.txt:15:31:29: <crystal-cola> ok
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156 2011-04-21.txt:15:34:21: <crystal-cola> it must feel good proving a theorem nobody proved before
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157 2011-04-21.txt:15:36:08: <crystal-cola> that reminds me ... I wonder if Knuths new book is good
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158 2011-04-21.txt:15:36:19: <crystal-cola> it sounded kind of interesting
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159 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:19: <crystal-cola> ###wwww###
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160 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:24: <crystal-cola> # wwww #
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161 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:25: <crystal-cola> # wwww #
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162 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:27: <crystal-cola> ###wwww###
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163 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:33: <crystal-cola> # is dirt and w is water
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164 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:41: <crystal-cola> oh the last line should have been ##########
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165 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:49: <crystal-cola> you can build a house like that
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166 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:06: <crystal-cola> GUYS
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167 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:08: <crystal-cola> GUYS
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168 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:36: <crystal-cola> you can build an under-lake house
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169 2011-04-21.txt:15:50:41: <crystal-cola> arrows are dangeous
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170 2011-04-21.txt:15:51:14: <crystal-cola> oklopol: listen if you get hit by arrows you can die
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171 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:13: <crystal-cola> raining in minecraft??
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172 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:39: <crystal-cola> I was upset when they stopped wood from burning infinitely
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173 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:49: <crystal-cola> because that was a great party zone for free bacon
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174 2011-04-21.txt:15:53:33: <crystal-cola> u'u
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175 2011-04-21.txt:15:53:34: <crystal-cola> lol
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176 2011-04-21.txt:15:54:36: <crystal-cola> URGH
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177 2011-04-21.txt:15:54:41: <crystal-cola> how do I turn off "Acheivement get!"
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178 2011-04-21.txt:15:55:19: <crystal-cola> I hate it
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179 2011-04-21.txt:15:55:31: <crystal-cola> not me :/
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180 2011-04-21.txt:16:25:29: <crystal-cola> it's true and disappointing
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181 2011-04-21.txt:16:25:57: <crystal-cola> internet had potential to be so good
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182 2011-04-21.txt:16:26:17: <crystal-cola> now it's all just "download transformes II and mean girls" holywood movies
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183 2011-04-21.txt:16:27:54: <crystal-cola> why isn't there a website (or whatever) for people that want to learn stuff?
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184 2011-04-21.txt:16:28:16: <crystal-cola> if I want to learn quantum mechanics (for example) why can't I find a group of people that also want to? Using the internet
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185 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:02: <crystal-cola> ugh why are people so stupid
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186 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:06: <crystal-cola> everything is extremely simple
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187 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:34: <crystal-cola> this guy is asking how to prove a theorem that he doesn't even know how to state
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188 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:42: <crystal-cola> maybe that's why you can prove it ..?
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189 2011-04-21.txt:18:08:50: <crystal-cola> ##categorytheory - most boring channel ever
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190 2011-04-21.txt:18:14:30: <crystal-cola> im watching this guys videos about how angles and stuff are wrong
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191 2011-04-21.txt:18:14:51: <crystal-cola> http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~norman/views2.htm
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192 2011-04-21.txt:18:15:55: <crystal-cola> heh
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193 2011-04-21.txt:18:16:18: <crystal-cola> yeah anti-axiomatics is kind of a cool view
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194 2011-04-21.txt:18:17:28: <crystal-cola> every does math based on axioms, or at least they think they are doing so
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195 2011-04-21.txt:18:18:18: <crystal-cola> hehe
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196 2011-04-21.txt:18:19:59: <crystal-cola> he has some good points abuot angles
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197 2011-04-21.txt:18:20:09: <crystal-cola> you can basically do trigonometry without calculus
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198 2011-04-21.txt:18:20:14: <crystal-cola> so why not do that?
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199 2011-04-21.txt:18:21:28: <crystal-cola> I mean normal things like angles and trigonometry can only be rigorously done in terms of calculus
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200 2011-04-21.txt:18:21:41: <crystal-cola> but you usally learn these things before learning enough calculus to justify them
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201 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:00: <crystal-cola> so if you are going to do trigonometry at all why do it in that way? Since there is an easier way
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202 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:12: <crystal-cola> one that isn't founded on more advanced mathematics
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203 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:38: <crystal-cola> both can be made completely rigorous
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204 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:49: <crystal-cola> the only difference is how much work it takes
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205 2011-04-21.txt:18:23:42: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> you can basically do trigonometry without calculus" <<< because it's no fun
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206 2011-04-21.txt:18:25:17: <crystal-cola> oklopol: ??
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207 2011-04-21.txt:18:26:40: <crystal-cola> what do you mean oklopol
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208 2011-04-21.txt:18:26:56: <crystal-cola> 19:24 < oklopol> crystal-cola: another difference is you're not doing math, eventually you might disagree with someone.
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209 2011-04-21.txt:18:27:05: <crystal-cola> are you talking about axiom-free mathematics?
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210 2011-04-21.txt:18:27:30: <crystal-cola> people can disagree... if at least one of them is wrong
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211 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:01: <crystal-cola> elliott: why do you always talk about finitism?
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212 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:18: <crystal-cola> you always talk about it
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213 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:26: <crystal-cola> yes you do
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214 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:46: <crystal-cola> check the logs if you don't remember
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215 2011-04-21.txt:18:30:30: <crystal-cola> elliott: You talk about finitism all the time, I wonder why because you're obviously not actually a finitist
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216 2011-04-21.txt:18:30:39: <crystal-cola> elliott: Basically you're trolling. Why do you keep doing it?
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217 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:23: <crystal-cola> 14:19:52 <elliott> I'm starting the Order of Ultrafinitist Programmers, we code exclusively in lookup tables
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218 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:26: <crystal-cola> yesterday
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219 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:34: <crystal-cola> You brought up finitism
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220 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:46: <crystal-cola> elliott: because I proved you wrong? Okay
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221 2011-04-21.txt:18:32:34: <crystal-cola> elliott: People are having a serious discussion about metamathematics. Stop telling me off for not doing anything wrong and trolling about finitism and just generally being an ass.
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222 2011-04-21.txt:18:35:13: <crystal-cola> elliott: wrong
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223 2011-04-21.txt:18:36:58: <crystal-cola> what
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224 2011-04-21.txt:18:37:15: <crystal-cola> okay I'll /ignore you too
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225 2011-04-21.txt:18:37:24: <crystal-cola> stops us arguing as a bonus
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226 2011-04-21.txt:18:53:57: <crystal-cola> I never got introduced to anything rigorous in my math courses
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227 2011-04-21.txt:18:54:19: <crystal-cola> which is fine, I am able to supply my own rigor
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228 2011-04-21.txt:18:54:32: <crystal-cola> but I do think "normal" students cannot
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229 2011-04-21.txt:18:56:00: <crystal-cola> oklopol: Nobody ever taught me what a function was
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230 2011-04-21.txt:18:56:22: <crystal-cola> oklopol: I think you are very lucky to have been taught things properly - I am a sample of 1 but I don't think it's normal
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231 2011-04-21.txt:19:01:56: <crystal-cola> that was weird
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232 2011-04-21.txt:19:02:03: <crystal-cola> someone disagreed with me in #haskell and I didn't get banned
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233 2011-04-21.txt:19:03:16: <crystal-cola> oklopol: yeah seriously I think you just go to an exceptionally good university
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234 2011-04-21.txt:19:03:26: <crystal-cola> normally none of this stuff gets talked about
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235 2011-04-21.txt:19:06:32: <crystal-cola> it doesn't really matter how math is taught
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236 2011-04-21.txt:19:06:43: <crystal-cola> if you're smart you'll probably prove good theorems no matter what
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237 2011-04-21.txt:19:13:34: <crystal-cola> category of finite sets
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238 2011-04-21.txt:19:14:10: <crystal-cola> that definition of infinite set works without choice
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239 2011-04-21.txt:19:15:56: <crystal-cola> anyway axiom-free mathematics is to just brush aside since axiomatization is "solved". Look at Eulers papers
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240 2011-04-21.txt:19:20:01: <crystal-cola> "subsets of N" is a difficult notionn
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241 2011-04-21.txt:19:20:27: <crystal-cola> consider permutations of N, is a subset of N just the first n elements of a permutation?
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242 2011-04-21.txt:19:21:35: <crystal-cola> well even in the finite case it's awkward becuase of "wild" permutations
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243 2011-04-21.txt:19:23:16: <crystal-cola> http://qchu.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/i-dont-trust-uncountable-sets/
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244 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:17: <crystal-cola> I guess one of the difficulties is, let S be a subset of N then consider the obvious bijection 1 -> first element of S, 2 -> second element, ...
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245 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:32: <crystal-cola> almost all infinite sets S lead to functions that grow so fast...
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246 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:44: <crystal-cola> much faster than busy beaver
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247 2011-04-21.txt:19:28:16: <crystal-cola> fast growing functions are a bitch, ever studied logic?
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248 2011-04-21.txt:19:28:52: <crystal-cola> they're just really difficult
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249 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:09: <crystal-cola> the rate of growth of a function is the sort of thing you need stronger and stronger axioms to deal tih
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250 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:12: <crystal-cola> with
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251 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:43: <crystal-cola> like you can't prove ackermann terminates in weak logics.. you need something extra
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252 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:52: <crystal-cola> and the same phenomenon happens all the time throughout
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253 2011-04-21.txt:19:30:34: <crystal-cola> yeah that's true
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254 2011-04-21.txt:19:30:50: <crystal-cola> I'm not saying I can prove false with this, I know it all works out fine in ZFC
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255 2011-04-21.txt:19:33:05: <crystal-cola> hehe
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256 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:11: <crystal-cola> it's non-trivial that they are independent
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257 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:13: <crystal-cola> for a star
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258 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:14: <crystal-cola> t
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259 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:23: <crystal-cola> and their proof theoretic strength is also quite high
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260 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:38: <crystal-cola> there is a lot up with them
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261 2011-04-21.txt:19:35:55: <crystal-cola> well personally I ahve no trouble using them
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262 2011-04-21.txt:19:36:16: <crystal-cola> I don't know about others, I wouldn't claim everyone else finds them hard but I wouldn't be surprised
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263 2011-04-21.txt:19:36:23: <crystal-cola> people have trouble learning the axioms of group theory...
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264 2011-04-21.txt:19:38:11: <crystal-cola> why is that confusing?
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265 2011-04-21.txt:19:40:03: <crystal-cola> impomatic: int main(int argc, char** argv)
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266 2011-04-21.txt:19:40:10: <crystal-cola> impomatic: and return EXIT_SUCCESS;
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267 2011-04-21.txt:19:42:20: <crystal-cola> impomatic: I think you need to check if scanf worked
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268 2011-04-21.txt:19:52:50: <crystal-cola> oklopol: that bit is weird, it's trivial to show that stuff corrrect... you just need a single non-constructive step (checking if a real number is zero or not)
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269 2011-04-21.txt:19:53:02: <crystal-cola> for division
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270 2011-04-21.txt:19:53:21: <crystal-cola> oklopol: so not sure what is meant by that paragraph..
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271 2011-04-21.txt:19:57:58: <crystal-cola> that's a subtle one
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272 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:18: <crystal-cola> The computable reals are countable if you consider them as computter programs
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273 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:26: <crystal-cola> but cantors diagonalization still works
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274 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:37: <crystal-cola> so it all depends if you're "inside" or "outside" the theory
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275 2011-04-21.txt:19:59:34: <crystal-cola> heh
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276 2011-04-22.txt:12:48:48: <crystal-cola> marsh mallows are sugar and egg white
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277 2011-04-22.txt:12:48:52: <crystal-cola> well
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278 2011-04-22.txt:12:49:02: <crystal-cola> the stuff you buy in shops is probably synthesized from cow brains
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279 2011-04-22.txt:12:49:10: <crystal-cola> but you can make them from sugar and egg white
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280 2011-04-22.txt:13:50:45: <crystal-cola> show that x^15 + y^3 = 34^34 has no integer solutions
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281 2011-04-22.txt:14:00:29: <crystal-cola> :D
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282 2011-04-22.txt:14:01:01: <crystal-cola> wnat do you think of diophantine ?
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283 2011-04-22.txt:14:12:20: <crystal-cola> Find all m,n such that 3^m - 2^n = +/- 1
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284 2011-04-22.txt:14:16:31: <crystal-cola> diophantine equations with unsigned chars
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285 2011-04-22.txt:14:16:36: <crystal-cola> you can check every case
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286 2011-04-22.txt:14:17:45: <crystal-cola> Sgeo: ...
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287 2011-04-22.txt:14:19:02: <crystal-cola> Sgeo: I don't think that can be solved by elementry methods
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288 2011-04-22.txt:14:20:31: <crystal-cola> x^n + y^n = z^n => xyz = 0
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289 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:06: <crystal-cola> haha that's clever
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290 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:11: <crystal-cola> is is true for the negative n?
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291 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:14: <crystal-cola> I don't konw about that
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292 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:54: <crystal-cola> (yz)^n + (xz)^n = (xy)^n
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293 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:17: <crystal-cola> okay what about n = -2
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294 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:20: <crystal-cola> and -1
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295 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:28: <crystal-cola> 1/x + 1/y = 1/z
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296 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:33: <crystal-cola> 1/x^2 + 1/y^2 = 1/z^2
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297 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:47: <crystal-cola> I will ask the egyptians
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298 2011-04-22.txt:14:27:54: <crystal-cola> How do you find all solutions?
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299 2011-04-22.txt:14:49:34: <crystal-cola> hey check this out
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300 2011-04-22.txt:14:49:52: <crystal-cola> a(1)=1;a(n+1)=2n+1-a(a(n-1))
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301 [too many lines; stopping]
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