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<elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
author HackBot
date Sat, 24 Mar 2012 17:48:51 +0000
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134
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:44:38: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:53:59: <elliott_> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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3 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:03: <ais523> hi elliott_
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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4 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:09: <ais523> spammer got past the CAPTCHA
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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5 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:13: <ais523> could you check to make sure it's a human?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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6 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:54:25: <ais523> (I indef-blocked the account, auto-blocked the IP, deleted the page and blacklisted the domain)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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7 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:55:43: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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8 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:55:47: <ais523> I just mean I didn't turn it off
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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9 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:42: <elliott_> ais523: looks human to me, except this one is using something that looks like IE7, rather than IE8
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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10 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:47: <ais523> fair enoguh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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11 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:49: <ais523> (enough
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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12 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:51: <ais523> *enough
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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13 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:56:56: <ais523> the IP traces to a large Indian ISP
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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14 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:58:27: <elliott_> ais523: btw, do you know how I could make "Prevent user from sending e-mail" the default?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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15 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:09:58:53: <ais523> I don't know, although it wouldn't surprise me i there was a config setting somewhere
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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16 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:10:42:34: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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17 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:10:59:26: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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18 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:01:27: <elliott_> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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19 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:04:09: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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20 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:03: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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21 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:11: <elliott_> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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22 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:20: <ais523> hi
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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23 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:11:05:32: <ais523> yay, I actually managed to ping myself before the connection dropped this time :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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24 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:39:00: <ais523> In December 2009, Paul Gogarty apologised in advance for using "unparliamentary language" prior to shouting "fuck you!" at an opposition chief whip.[7] This phrase was not one of those listed explicitly as inappropriate, prompting calls for a review.[9]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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25 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:39:29: <ais523> so was the review about whether "fuck you!" is inappropriate, or about whether it's correct to apologise for using phrases not on the inappropriate phrases list?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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26 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:29: <elliott_> ais523: hey, when do you think we should take down the sitenotice?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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27 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:41: <ais523> Vorpal's seen it now, so so has everyone else
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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28 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:44: <ais523> so may as well take it down
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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29 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:44:58: <ais523> his reaction in channel was hilarious
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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30 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:45:05: <ais523> I think it was yesterday or the day before
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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31 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:43: <ais523> elliott_: even if you were clear, I don't think Vorpal would believe you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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32 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:53: <ais523> or at least, even if he did, he'd pretend not to for humour value
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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33 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:46:56: <elliott_> ais523: That was rather below my threshold for hilarious. :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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34 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:01: <ais523> sorry
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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35 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:07: <ais523> I thought the discussion about a coup was funny
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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36 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:13: <ais523> or just the first couple of lines
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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37 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:47:21: <ais523> new Mediawiki, hmm and elliott's behind it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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38 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:00: <ais523> hmm, so it seems that Visual C++ version 11 doesn't support Windows XP in the binaries it produces
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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39 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:23: <elliott_> ais523: presumably just "by default"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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40 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:26: <ais523> yep, that's been around for a while
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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41 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:42: <ais523> elliott_: it doesn't ship with a libc that runs on windows XP
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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42 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:50:49: <ais523> so you'd need to find one from somewhere
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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43 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:51:12: <ais523> well, indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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44 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:51:19: <ais523> (the libc gets statically linked on Windows, usually, it seems)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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45 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:52:40: <ais523> what does SFINAE mean? trying to read about C++ is tricky because of all the acronyms
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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46 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:52:50: <ais523> (I can ask this safely as I don't pretend to understand more than a smallish subset of C++)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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47 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:53:06: <ais523> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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48 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:53:19: <ais523> I'm a little surprised it's major enough to have a Wikipedia article about it…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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49 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:41: <ais523> I'd have tried Wikipedia first if I expected the article to exist
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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50 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:43: <ais523> but I didn't
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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51 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:54:52: <ais523> and wow, the concept itself is beautifully ridiculous :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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52 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:56:14: <ais523> what does 1.19 have that you want?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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53 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:12:59:48: <elliott_> ais523: conjecture: Wikipedia's relicensing to CC failed, because not everybody could edit Wikipedia at the time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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54 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:13: <ais523> I don't see why that would be relevant
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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55 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:26: <ais523> I believe they could relicense the content without anyone's permission but the FSF if they really wanted to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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56 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:32: <ais523> but they decided to seek permission anyway
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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57 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:00:58: <ais523> oh, I see
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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58 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:06: <ais523> technicalities don't apply in legal documents, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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59 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:33: <ais523> I also like the definition of "incorporate", there
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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60 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:40: <ais523> because it's so different from the normal legal meaning
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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61 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:01:54: <ais523> elliott_: I think I got my reminders before you did
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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62 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:02:01: <ais523> and I already happy-thatted yesterday for the Australian version
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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63 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:02:31: * ais523 notes that it's possible to verb even relative pronouns
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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64 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:31: <ais523> oh, you check email actively?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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65 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:46: <ais523> I just leave Evolution backgrounded and look at it when the new-messages popup comes up
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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66 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:52: <ais523> that's what I meant by actively
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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67 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:03:58: <ais523> you make a decision to check it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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68 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:04:04: <ais523> rather than checking it in the background, so to speak
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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69 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:25: <ais523> err, what? Evolution was installed on here by default
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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70 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:39: <ais523> admittedly, it needed to be configured to contact all three of my email addresses
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71 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:05:56: <ais523> and I really don't get why people use web browsers to access all sorts of services they aren't designed for
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72 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:03: <ais523> gmail's interface is hideous compared to Evolutions
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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73 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:07: <ais523> *Evolution's
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74 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:06:14: <ais523> (and yes, I have used gmail, although I didn't create the account)
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75 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:34: <ais523> and I'm not convinced it's possible to build a good interface inside the browser, because the browser is doing its own thing that's optimised for browsing
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76 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:41: <ais523> not to mention, GMail doesn't work offline
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77 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:09:53: <ais523> (I think they were trying to come up with some convoluted scheme to fix that, but still…)
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78 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:36: <elliott_> <ais523> err, what? Evolution was installed on here by default
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79 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:44: <elliott_> <ais523> and I really don't get why people use web browsers to access all sorts of services they aren't designed for
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80 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:12:54: <ais523> it is, it notifies by default if you leave it running
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81 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:05: <elliott_> ais523: yes, but it also connects via IMAP and creates rubbish IMAP folders and junk
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82 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:17: <ais523> and evolution-alarm-notifier (the calendar notifier) runs even if Evolution isn't running, if the calendar is non-empty
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83 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:30: <ais523> well I don't have this problem because I'm not using gmail
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84 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:13:50: <elliott_> ais523: yes, you don't; I do
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85 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:05: <ais523> hmm, I tend to turn threading off in things that support turning it off
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86 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:09: <ais523> I turned it off in my newsreader, for instance
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87 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:14:19: <ais523> so that I don't have to click round between multiple threads to find all the messages that have arrived recently
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88 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:02: <ais523> so here's one for you: suppose you need to mark all the messages in your inbox with a particular string in their subject line as unread
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89 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:07: <ais523> how do you do that in gmail?
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90 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:17: <ais523> (note: actual real-world problem I had a while ago)
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91 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:23: <ais523> elliott_: that's what quoting's for, right?
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92 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:43: <elliott_> ais523: search for the string, click check box in the top-left, click the second sentence link in "All 20 conversations on this page are selected. Select all conversations that match this search", more -> mark as unread
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93 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:46: <ais523> fizzie: right, it does, but they've improved the interface by exposing that option right when you're configuring the account
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94 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:54: <elliott_> ais523: you can also use a filter to apply it to all incoming mail (and then apply that filter retroactively)
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95 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:15:55: <ais523> elliott_: some messages contain the string not in the subject line
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96 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:00: <ais523> and those ones shouldn't be marked as unread
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97 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:11: <elliott_> ais523: subject:foo
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98 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:19: <ais523> also, this is one-off so filters aren't helpful, and putting the string in the search box also finds messages that don't contain the exact string, but an approximation
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99 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:34: <ais523> well, OK
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100 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:16:57: <ais523> it's still a lot more work than setting the search style to "subject" then typing in the string to search on
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101 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:17:00: <fizzie> ais523: That's Tfoo\n;wN in mutt.
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102 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:17:09: <elliott_> ais523: not really, I could have used keyboard shortcuts
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103 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:24:32: <elliott_> ais523: anyway, a web browser has what I would consider significant advantages over a traditional desktop application as far as email goes, IMO
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104 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:24:45: <elliott_> ais523: in that it's designed around portrait-scale, reflowable text
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105 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:02: <elliott_> ais523: with "light" navigation as part of the content rather than something omnipresent
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106 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:14: <ais523> elliott_: hmm… reflowable text has to be a solved problem by now
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107 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:35: <ais523> the thing is, people expect emails to have significant line breaks, because they usually do
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108 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:45: <elliott_> ais523: well, yes, I'm just saying that as far as a fixed layout of widgets vs. a "document" display of things goes, the latter seems better for email to me
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109 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:25:45: <ais523> so I think many clients choose not to reflow emails
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110 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:01: <elliott_> ais523: oh, that's an incidental thing, but yes
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111 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:08: <ais523> well, it makes sense to use an HTML renderer to display emails
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112 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:11: <ais523> especially HTML emails
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113 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:13: <elliott_> ais523: it's more the "type" of document I'm talking about
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114 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:21: <ais523> but you do that in the bit of the client that displays the email itself, not the whole thing
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115 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:28: <elliott_> ais523: I wasn't talking about rendering engine
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116 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:43: <ais523> what were you talking about?
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117 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:26:53: <elliott_> ais523: well... what I said
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118 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:04: <ais523> well, you mentioned a display
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119 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:20: <ais523> as in, which bit of a browser are you saying is useful here? the rendering engine? something else?
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120 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:27:38: <ais523> clearly it's only a subset of the browser that matters, as, say, an FTP client is irrelevant
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121 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:28:41: <ais523> and I'm saying that that argument only applies to the bit of the client that shows the email itself
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122 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:28:49: <ais523> which is typically not done with a GUI toolkit, but with an HTML renderer
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123 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:11: <ais523> things like a list of messages?
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124 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:16: <ais523> and a list of accounts?
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125 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:32: <ais523> I have my reply button on a toolbar, so I can memorize its location
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126 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:35: <elliott_> ais523: yes, web browsers are also very good at lists of things, because what's each item in the list of messages?
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127 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:41: <ais523> (I dislike the Thunderbird style at associating it with a message)
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128 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:29:50: <ais523> elliott_: err, no, web browsers are not good at lists of things
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129 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:09: <ais523> they're good at links, but links are basically "reacting to clicks", and everything can do that trivially
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130 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:22: <ais523> and actually, a list of emails /isn't/ a list of links
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131 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:28: <ais523> because you can do things like select then
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132 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:30:29: <ais523> *them
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133 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:35:03: <ais523> the talk page is pretty funny too
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134 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:36:44: <ais523> do celebrities have more or fewer friends on average than people as a whole?
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135 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:41:45: <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase
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136 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:05: <Vorpal> ais523, technically I believe Skyrim is an indie game though. Heh.
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137 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:45: <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage
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138 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:42:58: <ais523> and the common-usage definition is also entirely reasonable and fits the meaning of its individual words
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139 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:01: <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game?
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140 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:18: <ais523> I don't know, I've never played it
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141 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:43:38: <elliott_> Vorpal: you seem to have missed the part where ais523 explicitly criticised your publisher-based definition
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142 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:11: <ais523> elliott_: oh right, I'd forgotten that his scrollback sometimes doesn't even extend one line
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143 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:38: <elliott_> <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase
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144 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:41: <elliott_> <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage
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145 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:43: <elliott_> <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game?
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146 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:55: <Vorpal> <Vorpal> ais523, technically I believe Skyrim is an indie game though. Heh.
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147 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:44:56: <Vorpal> <ais523> Vorpal: it's being used as "game not created by a major development company", which is not the same, but is a different literal meaning of the same phrase
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148 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:45:02: <Vorpal> <Vorpal> ais523, true, that is what it is used for, but then is Trine 2 an indie game?
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149 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:45:07: <Vorpal> <ais523> no, your definition is stupid because it doesn't match common usage
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150 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:30: <ais523> elliott_: I was going on the meanings of "independent" and "video game" combined
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151 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:43: <ais523> as in, I assumed that Vorpal meant "literal" as in "composed out of the meanings of the individual words"
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152 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:51:48: <ais523> as it was the sense he seemed to be using it in
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153 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:13:52:24: <Vorpal> <ais523> as in, I assumed that Vorpal meant "literal" as in "composed out of the meanings of the individual words" <-- indeed
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154 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:14:37:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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155 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:00:13: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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156 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:28: <ais523> <Judge Alsup> In the copyright-liability briefs due on March 9, please include analysis of whether or not the copyrightability of the selection, arrangement, and structure of the APIs depend on the underlying programming language being Java as opposed to Python or QBASIC or other non- Java programming language.
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157 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:38: * ais523 wonders what possessed him to ask that
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158 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:23:43: <ais523> and the selection of languages, fwiw
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159 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:47:39: <Friendship> ais523: Today in History: Oracle convinces government that only programs written in or implementing Java are copyrightable.
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160 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:48:26: <ais523> Friendship: that would be ridiculous :)
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161 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:16:56:55: <ais523> @tell lambdabot thanks for relaying all these messages for us
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162 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:17:03:21: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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163 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:17:58:35: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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164 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:18:48:20: <ais523> it only helps when it gets rid of a pair of parens
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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165 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:21:24:40: <ais523> just heard on a TV quiz show: the contestant was asked what Babbage was famous for (multiple choice), and discounted inventing the computer because she thought Apple invented the computer
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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166 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-01.txt:21:56:13: <ais523> Friendship is your middle name?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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167 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:00:13:04: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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168 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:51:28: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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169 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:53:34: <ais523> hey, look what my supervisor did: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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170 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:53:49: <ais523> (at least vaguely ontopic)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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171 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:57:23: <Friendship> ais523: I like how the page starts with a brief description of what the tool is, then its development history, then download information.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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172 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:59:30: <ais523> hmm, where does it say that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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173 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:17:59:50: <ais523> let me try with JS and cookies on
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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174 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:00:31: <ais523> hmm, no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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175 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:00:42: * ais523 wonders if he/she's somehow missing sarcasm
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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176 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:38: <ais523> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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177 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:49: <ais523> anyway, the website was made entirely by my supervisor
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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178 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:01:51: <ais523> I mostly just wrote code for it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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179 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:02:15: <ais523> (try spotting typos in the EULA, if you want some fun; we just put up what the lawyers told us to)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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180 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:02:25: <ais523> (or alternatively, try out the code)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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181 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:04:59: <ais523> I am also not inspired by it being made in Google Sites
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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182 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:21:32: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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183 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:18:26:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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184 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:19:28:00: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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185 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:19:45:06: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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186 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:14:29: <elliott> ais523: Did he rename it again>?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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187 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:15:05: <ais523> elliott: GOS is the name of the compiler, Verity is the name of the language
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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188 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:15:12: <ais523> and the file extension is .ia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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189 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:23: <ais523> err, if you /don't/ accept the license, then you can't distribute derivative works of it at all because nothing's licensing it to you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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190 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:26: <ais523> what do you think of it, anyway?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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191 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:18:46: <elliott> ais523: I can't distribute them, but if I agreed to the license, I would be prohibited from even making them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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192 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:19:03: <ais523> well, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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193 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:11: <ais523> actually, I'd better go home before I miss the last bus
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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194 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:16: <ais523> I got a little preoccupied with Rubicon…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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195 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:20: <ais523> bye everyone
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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196 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-02.txt:23:22:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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197 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:00:27: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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198 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:01:09: <ais523> so, to recall a conversation from ages ago, I figured out how to make highlight work together with less and lesspipe
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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199 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:01:38: <ais523> just write 'highlight -A "$1" 2>/dev/null' in ~/.lessfilter, and chmod it executable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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200 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:16:03:19: <ais523> lesspipe calls ~/.lessfilter, and if it errors out, lesspipe handles the error itself (by falling back to what it would have done anyway), so you don't have to handle lesspipe failing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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201 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:38:22: <ais523> perhaps I should put the gosc stuff in the topic
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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202 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:38:55: <ais523> elliott: btw, they're counting views of the license page as downloads of the software, because they don't host it themselves and are using google analytics in an attempt to count downloads indirectly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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203 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:22: <elliott> ais523: well, I viewed the license page at least twice for my one download (which was not under the license)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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204 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:45: <ais523> hmm, you'll probably cancel out me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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205 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:39:54: <ais523> admittedly, I've never downloaded the software from there because I haven't needed to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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206 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:40:06: <ais523> Sgeo: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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207 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:40:11: <ais523> admire the beatifully well-designed website
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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208 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:04: <ais523> Sgeo: it's a compiler from Verity to VHDL
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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209 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:47: <ais523> right, because we invented Verity for the purpose
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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210 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:42:57: <ais523> it's a call-by-name higher-order statically-typed language
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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211 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:43:07: <ais523> which is really an Algol variant, but in disguise
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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212 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:43:47: <ais523> right, with lambdas
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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213 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:44:02: <ais523> elliott: but the example programs are very permissively licensed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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214 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:44:39: <elliott> ais523: Did the University grant you permission to license them in that way? If so, why not the rest of the package?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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215 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:45:20: <elliott> ais523: How much will it personally inconvenience you if I try and annoy them with this?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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216 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:45:32: <ais523> elliott: it's licensed so as to retain the ability to commercialise
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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217 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:24: <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Someone gotta pay them so I can use them as a platform for indignancy wrt ais523's compiler's licensing.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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218 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:51: <Phantom_Hoover> What's ais523's compiler's licensing?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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219 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:48:59: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a crazy EULA
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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220 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:11: <ais523> I told the lawyers about the obvious contradictions and I fixed them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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221 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:18: <ais523> *they fixed them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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222 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:20: <ais523> but not the typos
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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223 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:49:24: <ais523> it's a licence agreement
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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224 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:13: <elliott> ais523: (ii) You many make derivative works for the purposes of non-commercial research.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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225 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:47: <ais523> I still think "LICENCE.rtf" is the best one
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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226 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:50:59: <ais523> I asked if I should rename the file, but meh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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227 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:07: <ais523> I /did/ turn the executable bit off, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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228 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:37: <ais523> elliott: what you do is you sell it to Xilinx and Altera for a fortune
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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229 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:41: <ais523> /then/ you opensource it :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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230 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:51:55: <ais523> (note: probably wouldn't work in practice)
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231 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:52:24: <ais523> feel free; I recommend that you GPLv3 it
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232 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:21:52:36: <ais523> (v3 is very important in this context, for reasons that I hope are obvious)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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233 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:29:47: <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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234 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:11: <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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235 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:14: <HackEgo> 818) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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236 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-03.txt:23:30:28: <ais523> it was a rhetorical question :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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237 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:12:54: <ais523> oerjan: two, in fact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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238 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:16: <ais523> the treadmill on wheels thing is ridiculous :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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239 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:33: <ais523> it took me a while to figure out if it'd go forwards or backwards
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240 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:13:51: <ais523> (forwards if the wheels rub against the treadmill belt, backwards if they're connected to the treadmill's rollers)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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241 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:00:19:07: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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242 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:08:46: <HackEgo> 2011-07-22.txt:20:14:13: <ais523> probably a really obscure method involving libraries
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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243 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:08:59: <HackEgo> 2009-03-03.txt:16:09:09: <ehird> ais523_: ## is not obscure!!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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244 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:05:10:37: <HackEgo> 2011-12-01.txt:21:31:28: <ais523> (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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245 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:16:20:43: <elliott> 23:29:47: <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
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246 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:16:22:08: <elliott> @tell oerjan gosc is the compiler ais523 talks about a lot from idealised ALGOL (with lambdas) to VHDL
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247 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:00:54: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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248 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:07:36: <elliott> hi ais523
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249 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:07:57: <ais523> hi elliott
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250 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:03: <elliott> hi ais523
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251 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:20: * ais523 sees no need to continue the pattern
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252 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:09:36: <olsner> hi ais523
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253 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:16: <ais523> oh, hmm
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254 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:24: <ais523> I think I fixed the permissions problem in Web of Lies, anyway
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255 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:21:43: <ais523> by soft-dropping permissions, and temporarily undropping them in the offending bit of code
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256 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:22:02: <ais523> it's not /quite/ as secure, but the only bit that soft-drops is the control process, the other two still hard-drop
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257 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:22:45: <ais523> should be secure against non-malicious accidents; it just increases the attack surface somewhat for people trying to exploit suid weboflies, or whatever, and who'd be mad enough to suid it?
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258 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:08: <elliott> ais523: don't tempt me
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259 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:23: <Phantom_Hoover> hi ais523
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260 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:37: <ais523> hi Phantom_Hoover
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261 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:40: <ais523> elliott: tempt you into what?
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262 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:26:42: <ais523> suiding weboflies?
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263 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:28:15: <elliott> ais523: yes
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264 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:32:47: <ais523> what I really need to do is get X working inside it
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265 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:33:01: <ais523> perhaps I could trick X into thinking it's root; I wonder what would go wrong then
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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266 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:00: <ais523> is there any way I can get X to just use the framebuffer for rendering?
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267 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:04: <elliott> ais523: X tries to talk to the graphics hardware, so...
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268 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:25: <elliott> ais523: there's also Xephyr
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269 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:34:56: <ais523> hmm, those both seem reasonable
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270 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:02: <elliott> ais523: wait, Xvfb doesn't seem to be KDrive
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271 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:11: <elliott> ais523: search your distro for a package
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272 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:35:19: <ais523> one step ahead of you there :)
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273 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:36:07: <ais523> even better, I can't think of any reasonable reason for xvfb to need root
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274 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:36:14: <ais523> that doesn't mean it won't, ofc
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275 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:37:44: <elliott> ais523: you could VNC into Xvfb or something, anyway :P
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276 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:38:08: <ais523> olsner: it's what Wikipedia recommends
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277 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:38:27: <ais523> it also suggests using a screenshot program inside xvfb to get at the screen
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278 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:40:53: <ais523> ooh, xvfb has a command-line option to memory-map its framebuffer into a file
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279 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:04: <ais523> that's exactly what I was doing with the fake framebuffer in weboflies anyway
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280 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:07: <elliott> ais523: VNC sounds like less work :P
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281 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:14: <ais523> so the two graphics methods should be swappable trivially
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282 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:41:33: <ais523> elliott: using one command-line option to reduce it to a problem I've already solved is more work than VNC?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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283 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:03: <ais523> elliott: well, the specific problem that VNC would solve
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284 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:13: <ais523> not the whole thing, obviously
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285 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:26: <elliott> ais523: I mean, I bet the file has a different format, etc.
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286 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:28: <elliott> ais523: anyway, if this saga doesn't end with you running KDE in it, you've failed
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287 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:42:37: <ais523> why KDE specifically?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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288 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:43:08: <elliott> ais523: well... it was still more of a hog than Gnome as of a short while ago
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289 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:43:50: <fizzie> ais523: Someone claims that Xorg with the fbdev graphics driver is doable as non-root assuming it can access all the necessary dev nodes: http://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2010/09/msg00091.html
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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290 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:16: <ais523> fizzie: thanks; that's my fallback position if I can't get xvfb to work
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291 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:24: <ais523> I assumed it would be
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292 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:44:44: <ais523> (the /dev nodes don't actually exist, but I'm faking them by intercepting system calls involving them, so I can choose permissions arbitrarily
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293 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:45:48: <ais523> elliott: well, it's how I got /dev/fb working
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294 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:45:53: <ais523> it was quite a bit of work
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295 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:01: <ais523> fun fact: quite a few games actually run without X, using the framebuffer
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296 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:07: <ais523> but you typically get a bunch of graphical glitches
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297 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:23: <ais523> I suspect the hard part's actually going to be emulating socketcall, IIRC X uses sockets to work
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298 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:46:29: <elliott> ais523: right, I just meant you wouldn't have to change your code at all
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299 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:02: <ais523> and hmm, right, I wouldn't have to change it, apart from loading X somehow
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300 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:24: <ais523> I do
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301 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:43: <ais523> the framebuffer itself works fine; it's actually the keyboard I have the most trouble with, as I can't figure out what format it's in
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302 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:47:51: <ais523> I was working on a fake mouse at the time
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303 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:08: <ais523> elliott: it can, that's what I was going to do if I couldn't get X working as non-root
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304 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:22: <ais523> but permissions checks are all over the place in syscalls, it'd take a bunch of work to fake comprehensively
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305 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:27: <ais523> and it'd also mean figuring out what process X was
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306 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:48:34: <elliott> ais523: well, there's no problem to keep the checks around
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307 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:08: <ais523> I think the sanity checks are probably actually in startx
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308 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:30: <ais523> what's the most common $DISPLAY value? :0.0?
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309 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:49:55: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies ls /dev/input
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310 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:50:00: <ais523> + pty output: mice\x0d\x0a
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311 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:02: <ais523> $ sudo ./weboflies Xvfb :1
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312 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:12: <ais523> + pty output: _XSERVTransmkdir: ERROR: euid != 0,directory /tmp/.X11-unix will not be created.\x0d\x0a
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313 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:19: <ais523> I wonder why it wanted to be root?
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314 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:37: <ais523> well, apparently so
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315 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:43: <ais523> but why would it want to be root to do that?
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316 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:51:59: <elliott> ais523: that's the socket, it seems
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317 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:06: <ais523> oh, I see
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318 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:18: <ais523> that explains why it'd want to be root for /that/
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319 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:52:55: <ais523> yep, there's a lot of "WARNING: Unknown syscall 102" there
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320 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:09: <ais523> and then a couple of "unexpected signal 11"
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321 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:11: <ais523> is that segfault?
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322 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:18: <ais523> hmm
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323 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:19: <elliott> olsner: I don't think ais523 has TCP either
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324 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:35: <ais523> olsner: TCP and unix-socket go through the same syscall, which I haven't implemented
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325 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> elliott: I know, I have a text file of syscals
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326 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> *syscalls
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327 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:04: <olsner> ais523: oh, I think you need to implement that syscall then :>
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328 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:08: <ais523> together with timing properties, and why they have or haven't been implemented
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329 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:11: <ais523> olsner: I know
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330 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:54:24: <ais523> the problem is, it's mostly undocumented
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331 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:00: <fizzie> ais523: You should be doing this on a BSD, they don't mux all socket stuff through a single syscall.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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332 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:11: <elliott> ais523: why not just forward socketcall without processing to test it?
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333 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:18: <ais523> the man page says it's the syscall that implements accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen, recv, recvfrom, recvmsg, send, sendmsg, sendto, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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334 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:20: <ais523> but not the format
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335 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:32: <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls
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336 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:38: <ais523> but apparently it makes xvfb segfault
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337 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:56: <fizzie> ais523: I've heard the Linux source code has been leaked, maybe you could sneak a peek.
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338 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:55:57: <ais523> (actually, the segfault's probably unrelated, it's probably assuming something that isn't actually true)
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339 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:18: <ais523> fizzie: I have also dived into kernel source quite a bit for figuring out this sort of thing
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340 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:24: <ais523> but I can hardly do that in a few minutes while eating dinner
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341 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:26: <elliott> <ais523> elliott: that's what weboflies does do on unknown syscalls
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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342 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:31: <elliott> ais523: err, it clearly doesn't forward 102
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343 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:45: <ais523> it warns and then forwards
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344 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:56:53: <ais523> the warning means it's being forwarded without knowing the implications
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345 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:19:59:03: <ais523> I doubt it, it's being printed to stdout of the host process, which isn't part of the anonymous fs at all
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346 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:44: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ ln -s Xvfb_screen0 /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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347 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:45: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ convert /tmp/Xvfb_screen0.xwd /tmp/t.png
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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348 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:47: <ais523> ais523@desert:~/weboflies$ eog /tmp/t.png
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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349 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:06:57: <ais523> so Xvfb is definitely working outside weboflies
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350 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:16: <elliott> ais523: what does t.png look like?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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351 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:36: <ais523> a black screen with an xterm in the top-left corner
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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352 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:50: <ais523> there were meant to be two of them, but I hadn't started a window manager
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353 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:20:08:58: <ais523> so I guess they overlapped exactly
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354 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:28: <ais523> Friendship: the spaces are two narrow for me
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355 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:33: <ais523> *too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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356 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:19:38: <ais523> Sgeo_: haha, wow
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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357 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:17: <ais523> a/ha/, Xvfb wants /tmp/X11-unix to exist already
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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358 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:41: <elliott> ais523: *.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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359 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:51: <ais523> ?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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360 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:52: <ais523> er, .
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361 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:22:54: <ais523> I see
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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362 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:33:50: <ais523> !c printf("%x %x", '', '‹');
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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363 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:34:29: <ais523> !c printf("%d", 0xe2);
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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364 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:34:48: <ais523> !c printf("%d", 0213);
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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365 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:04: <elliott> <ais523> !c printf("%x %x", '', '‹');
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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366 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:40: <ais523> 31, I think
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367 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:57: <ais523> elliott: someone's got a bunch of binary data they're trying to decote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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368 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:41:59: <ais523> *decode
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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369 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:06: <ais523> fizzie: underlined for me
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370 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:24: <elliott> ais523: ?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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371 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:33: <ais523> I suspect it's a zipfile that's been run through a bunch of re-encodings between UTF-8, and some 8-bit encoding that isn't latin-1
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372 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:42:35: <ais523> but can't tell for sure
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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373 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:03: <ais523> the first byte is correct, but the second isn't
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374 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:52: <ais523> hey, perhaps it's Windows-12452
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375 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:43:55: <ais523> *Windows-1252
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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376 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:44:55: <ais523> nope
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377 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:13: <ais523> olsner: it was copy-pasted into a forum post here: http://pnewman.net/shelter/viewtopic.php?p=11249&f=2#p11249
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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378 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:21: <ais523> I asked the author if they have the original
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379 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:25: <ais523> because phpBB is not a good way to send binary files
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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380 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:47: <ais523> olsner: see why I'm having problems decoding it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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381 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:53: <ais523> I think it was just gzipped
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382 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:45:59: <ais523> before it went through the copy-paste
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383 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:46:31: <ais523> well, obviously
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384 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:21:59:35: <ais523> fizzie: I'm guessing that phpBB interpreted it as windows-1252 and converted it to utf-8, except possibly where it was legal utf-8 already
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385 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:01:30: <ais523> I guess it should be treated as a literal 8f, then?
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386 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:02:44: <ais523> hmm
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387 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:03:22: <ais523> we need a windows-1252-or-otherwise-literally encoding
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388 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:05:00: <ais523> right
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389 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:06:08: <ais523> oh dear, I doubt we're going to be able to get iconv expanded to handle this case, either
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390 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:06:14: <ais523> it was written by Ulrich Drepper
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391 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:21: <ais523> As of Encode 2.12 CHECK can also be a code reference which takes the
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392 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:22: <ais523> ord value of unmapped caharacter as an argument and returns a string
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393 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:24: <ais523> that represents the fallback character. For instance,
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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394 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:08:38: <ais523> fizzie: try using sub {@_[0]} as your argument
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395 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:39: <ais523> no
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396 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:43: <ais523> but it seems likely to be
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397 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:10:52: <ais523> it was originally from a web browser cache
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398 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:01: <ais523> and it has the right magic number
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399 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:26: <ais523> oh, huh, that's indeed possible
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400 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:11:47: <ais523> yep
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401 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:12:41: <ais523> anyway, is this likely to be fixed soon, or shall I go home? I need to go home
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402 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-04.txt:22:16:25: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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403 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:00:47:23: <lambdabot> elliott said 8h 25m 10s ago: gosc is the compiler ais523 talks about a lot from idealised ALGOL (with lambdas) to VHDL
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404 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:14:57:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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405 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:22: <elliott> hi ais523
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406 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:37: <ais523> hi elliott
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407 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:02:47: <ais523> how's (insert project here) getting on?
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408 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:17: <ais523> and have you been working on anything recently?
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409 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:39: <ais523> anyway, fun fact about Linux: UNIX sockets don't respect chroots, despite looking like filenames
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410 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:03:43: <ais523> and, hmm, last week or so?
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411 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:04:34: <ais523> if you have a socket /tmp/.X11-unix/X0, then you can't have another socket called /tmp/.X11-unix/X0 open at the same time
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412 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:04:42: <ais523> even if they happen to be different tmps due to the processes having different root directories
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413 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:03: <ais523> I was trying to figure out htf a process inside weboflies could detect X outside it, apparently that was how
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414 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:28: <elliott> ais523: start the X as 99?
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415 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:47: <ais523> elliott: nah, better, there's a kernel flag, implemented quite recently, to separate network namespaces
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416 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:05:54: <ais523> in fact, I think it makes socketcall work by itself
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417 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:14: <ais523> you try to make a TCP connection and get all sorts of beautiful errors because there's no networking-related initialisation at all
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418 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:39: <ais523> do weboflies nc localhost 9999, and you get an error message back that it couldn't determine the IP address that localhost referred to
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419 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:06:50: <ais523> because there isn't an /etc/hosts inside weboflies, and it has no other sort of DNS
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420 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:07: <ais523> + pty output: telnet: could not resolve google.com/telnet: Servname not supported for ai_socktype\x0d\x0a
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421 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:17: <ais523> elliott: no, not yet, haven't looked at Esolang since I came online
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422 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:22: <ais523> but that's somewhat amusing
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423 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:24: <elliott> ais523: aw, I spoiled the surprise
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424 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:08:46: <ais523> ah, you revesed the archiving
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425 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:09:29: <ais523> we need a Category:Almost as Shameful
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426 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:10: <ais523> hmm, I think we should ban low-level stuff that works along the same lines as CPUs worked decades ago
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427 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:41: <ais523> because it's perpetuating the myth that computers actually work like that, and leading to worldwide inefficiency as a result
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428 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:44: <ais523> WORLDWIDE!
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429 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:10:49: <ais523> oh, I meant everywhere, not Esolang
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430 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:11:14: <ais523> this would also imply banning x86, but I don't see the problem :)
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431 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:11:19: <elliott> ais523: I do my part by fuming inside whenever anyone hails assembly as "right on the bare metal"
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432 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:03: <ais523> elliott: oh, did you hear about the Linode hack?
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433 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:06: <elliott> ais523: yep
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434 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:27: <ais523> do you have opinions on it?
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435 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:13:52: <elliott> ais523: the breach itself, in terms of what was done (just stealing credentials), is uneventful; the security policies it revealed are really bad
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436 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:14: <fizzie> ais523: I suggested bitcoin micropayments (0.50 BTC/edit) for the esowiki, in order to make it a target for such activities; currently all the cool guys just ignore it, going after bitcoins.
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437 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:30: <ais523> elliott: well, they also stole thousands of bitcoins, a bunch of Slashdot people think it was an inside job
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438 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:40: <elliott> ais523: the breach itself, I meant as in "the attack"
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439 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:43: <ais523> fizzie: 0.50 BTC is actually quite a lot
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440 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:14:46: <ais523> elliott: OK
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441 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:03: <ais523> it's between $2 and $3, right?
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442 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:07: <elliott> ais523: "inside job" conspiracies sound right up Slashdot's alley
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443 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:18: <ais523> seems a bit much for an edit
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444 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:23: <ais523> elliott: subset-of-Slashdot? indeed
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445 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:44: <ais523> also everything else
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446 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:15:53: <ais523> I wouldn't help maintain the wiki if I had to pay $3 per edit
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447 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:09: <elliott> ais523: oh, admins actually /get/ 0.50 BTC per edit
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448 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:42: <ais523> from where?
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449 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:16:52: <elliott> ais523: other edits, obviously
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450 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:19:32: <elliott> ais523: anyway, the real story is that people would store such large amounts of money on budget-ish VPS providers
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451 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:20:29: <ais523> elliott: actually, they seem to have been acting quite sensibly, all the money stolen was a small proportion of the money that the person actually owned
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452 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:20:51: <ais523> stuff that was being actively traded rather than in storage
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453 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:12: <elliott> ais523: well, I hear figures around a month's worth of money and the like
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454 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:16: <ais523> which leads me to wonder, how did Bitcoin exchanges get so big that around $200000 is only a tiny proportion of the total amount of money they're handling?
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455 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:21:35: <elliott> ais523: drugs, mostly
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456 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:22:07: <ais523> yep, wrt organisations
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457 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:30:08: <ais523> elliott: hmm, I'm suddenly reminded of the way that some commonly used programming language (I can't remember whether it was Perl or Python) treats invalid characters in its input, when re-encoding, by encoding them to invalid characters in its output
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458 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:30:23: <ais523> e.g. converting invalid UTF-8 to invalid UTF-16 in a reversible way
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459 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:33:24: <ais523> "I saved that straight from the cache and the [code] tags should stop any formatting. I'll upload it when I have a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's identical."
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460 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:33:27: <ais523> binary files do not work like that!
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461 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:34:04: <ais523> anyway, really crazy idea: is it possible to get a hashlife-like algorithm to work on a random initial state by lazifying the randomness?
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462 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:34:51: <ais523> other anyway: I'm annoyed that X seems to segfault inside weboflies but not outside (both Xorg and Xvfb, which appear to be doing the same thing when they segfault)
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463 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:35:03: <ais523> how do you request debug symbols for a package in Ubuntu?
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464 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:35:13: <ais523> then all I'll have to do is get core dumps working inside weboflies…
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465 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:54:25: <elliott> <ais523> "I saved that straight from the cache and the [code] tags should stop any formatting. I'll upload it when I have a chance, but I'm pretty sure it's identical."
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466 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:54:29: <elliott> ais523: we quoted that yesterday, too
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467 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:55:12: <elliott> <ais523> how do you request debug symbols for a package in Ubuntu?
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468 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:15:55:50: <ais523> ah, there's an xserver-xorg-core-dbg
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469 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:22:25: <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault
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470 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:22:48: <ais523> my guess is that it's assuming the existence of a file that doesn't exist and not checking an error condition, but it doesn't happen right after a file-related syscall
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471 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:05: <fizzie> ais523: How do you deal with shared-memory blocks?
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472 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:35: <ais523> mmap-based shared memory? I simply ensure that the scheduler's deterministic
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473 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:42: <ais523> on the basis that processes can't access the shared memory while they aren't running
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474 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:24:59: <ais523> this will break if someone spinlocks on shared memory, but who does that?
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475 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:25:07: <ais523> (also, it'll break by going into an infinite loop, rather than segfaulting)
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476 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:18: <ais523> yes, weboflies
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477 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:44: <ais523> which is, err, nontrivial to explain
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478 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:26:53: <ais523> (formerly known as the Secret Project, but it's less secret than it used to be)
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479 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:01: <elliott> <ais523> I can't even figure out why weboflies would make a program segfault
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480 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:16: <elliott> ais523: ooh, you should post your weboflies problems on SO, the reactions would be priceless
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481 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:27:20: <ais523> elliott: you /do/ know what happens if you put gdb and weboflies together, right?
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482 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:10: <ais523> stackoverflow is meant to be a collaborative FAQ building site, right?
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483 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:15: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a program regulariser
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484 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:24: <ais523> it makes Linux programs run in a repeatable way
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485 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:25: <fizzie> ais523: I mean shared memory objects, you know, the sysv IPC style. Those have their own namespace (the 'keys'), and so on.
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486 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:32: <ais523> fizzie: ah, OK
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487 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:37: <ais523> I don't think I've caught anything using them yet
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488 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:44: <elliott> <ais523> stackoverflow is meant to be a collaborative FAQ building site, right?
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489 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:28:51: <ais523> but I don't see any reason why they couldn't be regularised the same as everything else?
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490 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:29:45: <fizzie> ais523: It's just that X has that widespread MIT-SHM extension, I was wondering.
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491 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:30:34: <ais523> besides, there's only one process when it goes wrong
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492 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:31:05: <ais523> so I don't think IPC is responsible
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493 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:31:19: <ais523> and if weboflies doesn't have a syscall implemented, it forwards it to the actual kernel
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494 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:32:52: <elliott> hey ais523, can you buy me more RAM?
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495 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:09: <ais523> what for?
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496 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:13: <ais523> the answer is probably going to be no anyway
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497 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:33:19: <ais523> but that doesn't stop me being curious
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498 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:34:21: <ais523> that seems statistically likely, I wouldn't expect him to have died unexpectedly
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499 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:22: <fizzie> ais523: Anyway, can you get core dumps out of weboflies'd processes? It sounds not impossible for those to be gdb'able, depending on how things go.
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500 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:37: <ais523> fizzie: that's what I'm wondering at the moment
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501 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:37:56: <ais523> part of the problem is that even if it is dumping, I have no way to tell
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502 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:02: <ais523> as it's being dumped on a filesystem that doesnt' exist
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503 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:17: <ais523> and I can't do something like sh -c'program; ls' due to a ptrace misfeature
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504 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:22: <ais523> that strace has an insane workaround for
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505 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:38:45: <ais523> that I'll probably have to implement some day
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506 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:39:03: <ais523> that reminds me, why /didn't/ I download strace's source, rather than relying on strace strace to determine everything about how it works?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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507 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:40:59: <ais523> 3-clause BSD, by the look of it
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508 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:41:11: <ais523> so I could even use code from it if necessary
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509 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:43:54: <fizzie> ais523: What was the basic weboflies mechanism, anyway? ptrace with PTRACE_SYSCALL?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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510 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:00: <ais523> yes
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511 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:05: <ais523> exactly the same as strace
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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512 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:39: <ais523> btw, weboflies works inside strace (but not strace -f, nor does strace work inside weboflies)
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513 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:44:46: <ais523> I wonder if /ltrace/ works inside weboflies?
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514 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:45:59: <ais523> nope, there's a bunch of "program uses forbidden syscall 26" followed by ltrace complaining about ENOSYS errors
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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515 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:16:52:54: <ais523> right, I can figure out the IP pretty easily
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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516 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:17:10:07: <ais523> I declare 5 March as International Taneb Day
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517 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:17:16:35: <ais523> the connection was reset, basically
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518 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:02:26: <ais523> Sgeo_: it's too low-level an abstraction
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519 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:04:42: <ais523> probably just using functions, why would you need continuations for that?
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520 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:06:59: <Vorpal> ais523, uh, so how will you do the stuff you could do with call/cc instead?
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521 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:07:09: <ais523> using higher-level abstractions, obviously
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522 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:18:08:24: <Vorpal> ais523, I seen backtracking implemented with call/cc in a very elegant way, not sure what other abstraction in scheme would be suitable. Sure you could add new ones but will you need multiple ones or will whatever replaces call/cc be as flexible?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:05:31: <ais523> btw, the GitHub hack is hilarious
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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524 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:05:53: <ais523> it seems that Rails has a feature that's suspiciously like register_globals
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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525 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:20:06:08: <ais523> and GitHub were using it without proper security checks
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526 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:06: <ais523> Vorpal: you're missing the point of the placeholder
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527 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:21: <ais523> it's not necessarily "I don't know what it's called", but "other people won't know what it's called"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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528 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:26: <Vorpal> ais523, uh, I was correcting "moneys"
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529 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:33: <ais523> Vorpal: it's a placholder
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530 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:36: <ais523> *placeholder
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531 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:39: <ais523> to make the sentence more legible
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532 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:52:47: <Vorpal> ais523, so "currency units (septims)"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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533 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:21:57:33: <ais523> what is a .plan?
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534 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:22: <ais523> zzo38: /all/ the constellations in the ecliptic, there's an astrological sign not named after that constellation
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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535 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:27: <ais523> at least 11 of them, in fact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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536 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:00:54: <zzo38> ais523: Maybe I should rephrase the question, it isn't very good
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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537 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:02:06: <zzo38> ais523: Do you know a better way to rephrase the question?
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538 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:02:46: <ais523> "which constellation on the ecliptic does not have an astrological sign named after it?"
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539 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:03:22: <zzo38> ais523: Yes, that is better.
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540 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:03:38: <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> ais523, so "currency units (septims)"
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541 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:04:21: <ais523> [1] probably not, there are probably minor constellations on the ecliptic that don't have names; [2] no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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542 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:05:12: <zzo38> ais523: I think all constellations have names because the IAU defined all areas of the celestial sphere as belonging to one of 88 Latin constellations.
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543 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:26: <ais523> they're just x̂, ŷ, ẑ in an xyzh coordinate system, aren't they?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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544 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:38: <ais523> also, my IRC client renders those combined characters pretty badly
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545 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:28:47: <Vorpal> ais523, uh is that how you write unit vectors? x with a ^ on top?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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546 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:29:05: <ais523> it's what's taught in school in the UK
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547 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:29:21: <ais523> ^ on top = unit vector, regardless of whether it's in an axis direction or not
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548 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:10: <ais523> fizzie: oh, you're right
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549 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:24: <ais523> it is î, ĵ, k̂
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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550 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:31:27: <ais523> not x/y/z
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551 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:36:40: <ais523> Vorpal: the two are probably connected, if you think about it
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552 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:10: <Vorpal> ais523, hm? the two questions I raised? Or the two usages of the same symbol?
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553 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:43: <ais523> Vorpal: writing the same thing different ways, and same symbol used for different things
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554 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:37:52: <ais523> you have to invent new notations on the fly to avoid clashes
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555 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:38:56: <Vorpal> ais523, so you are saying 5 different persons needed to come up with a notation for vectors? That is a lot of independent research around the same time finding the same concept then
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556 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:39:45: <ais523> it's bad enough, in my field, that for the same notion, some people are using ⩽ for the same thing that other people are using ⩾ for
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557 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:05: <ais523> Vorpal: and I'm saying that notation that avoids clashes for one person, will have clashes for someone else
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558 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:14: <ais523> people who use vectors almost exclusively aren't going to want to write in arrows all the time
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559 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:29: <ais523> but people who use both vectors and other things may need them to avoid clashes
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560 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:40:52: <Vorpal> <ais523> it's bad enough, in my field, that for the same notion, some people are using ⩽ for the same thing that other people are using ⩾ for <-- wow
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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561 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:41:04: <Vorpal> <ais523> Vorpal: and I'm saying that notation that avoids clashes for one person, will have clashes for someone else <-- ah, right
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562 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:42:28: <ais523> actually, might have been ≤ and ≥, I can't remember
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563 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:08: <Vorpal> ais523, isn't ≤ just a different way to write ⩽? Different stylizing I mean
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564 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:15: <ais523> not always, but yes sometimes
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565 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:29: <ais523> why do you think they have different Unicode codepoints?
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566 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:43:50: <Vorpal> ais523, good point
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567 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:45:01: <ais523> it's got to be either l or h, I think
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568 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:45:55: <Vorpal> ais523, btw you said xyzh for homogenus coordinate above, it is just that I seem to remember it being xyzw in some contexts (such as opengl)?
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569 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:21: <ais523> opengl has sets of four arbitrary letters that it uses for coordinates without knowing what they mean
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570 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:26: <ais523> wait, CUDA does
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571 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:40: <ais523> actually, probably it's /actually/ GLSL
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572 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:45: <ais523> I know too many GPU-related frameworks
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573 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:46:53: <ais523> so you can address a vector as xyzw or as rgba, for instance
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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574 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:47:11: <ais523> there are a few other schemes, they had to use weird letters sometimes to avoid clashes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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575 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-05.txt:22:47:25: <Vorpal> ais523, um, opengl accpets xyzw, rgba, 0123, <something I forgot related to texture coordinates>A
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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576 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:00:06:00: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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577 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:14:11:39: <elliott> 18:08:24: <Vorpal> ais523, I seen backtracking implemented with call/cc in a very elegant way, not sure what other abstraction in scheme would be suitable. Sure you could add new ones but will you need multiple ones or will whatever replaces call/cc be as flexible?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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578 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:09:20: <elliott> I also have ais523 on my side, so ha.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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579 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:41:17: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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580 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:42:40: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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581 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:20:43:30: <ais523> hi
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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582 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:30: <elliott> Hey, where'd ais523 come from?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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583 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:36: <elliott> ais523: Did you sneak in?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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584 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:34:46: <ais523> I've been here for ages, you even said hi to me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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585 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:15: <elliott> ais523: WELL HI AGAIN.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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586 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:21: <ais523> hi!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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587 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:35:53: <elliott> ais523: DID YOU KNOW they're changing the diffs even more massively than previously thought?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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588 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:36:06: <ais523> no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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589 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:36:17: <ais523> is that from a recently created article?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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590 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:37:55: <ais523> that's a PNG, not a PDF
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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591 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:39:42: <ais523> meh, I am not emotionally involved in this change
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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592 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:40:37: <ais523> oh, you don't like it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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593 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:40:50: <ais523> or you just want other people to not like it so you can feel superior?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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594 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:42:42: <ais523> that's because most website design changes suck
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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595 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:42:52: <ais523> nobody complained when acehack.eu improved its design
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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596 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:43:53: <ais523> elliott: I don't think it does, kerio eventually put an sshd on port 23 in some sort of point
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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597 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:09: <ais523> yep, and there's still an sshd there
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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598 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:31: <ais523> he means he put sshd on 23 so that nobody could claim that they could use telnet but not ssh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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599 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:44:43: <ais523> due to firewalls, etc
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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600 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:45:10: <ais523> yes, indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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601 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:45:17: <ais523> Windows XP/Vista, for instance
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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602 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:48:21: <ais523> elliott: they come with telnet by default, ssh you have to install
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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603 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:48:30: <ais523> and you might not be able to install new software
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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604 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:49:06: <ais523> hmm, but they suck for playing roguelikes on
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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605 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-06.txt:23:59:49: <Vorpal> <ais523> elliott: they come with telnet by default, ssh you have to install <-- iirc windows 7 doesn't come with telnet by default either
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606 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:02:53: <ais523> Vorpal: there's a reason I said XP and Vista!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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607 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:07:22: <ais523> zzo38: how do you design a CPU architecture to prevent DRM?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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608 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:07:32: <ais523> actually, anti-malware CPU features normally make DRM easier, rather than harder
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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609 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:08:50: <zzo38> ais523: It is not the CPU feature which I intend to change, but the way the CPU is connected to the other components.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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610 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:10:43: <zzo38> ais523: And the BIOS design, too. (For example, only the BIOS can access the hard drive and optical drive.)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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611 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:02: <ais523> elliott: FLAC is lossless, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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612 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:15: <ais523> by the way, did you point out that data's lost turning sound waves into a WAV? (and did anyone else?)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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613 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:35:26: <ais523> /real/ music purists hire an orchestra to perform for them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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614 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:00:37:35: <elliott> ais523: Yes, FLAC is lossless.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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615 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:57:51: <ais523> observation: webcomics often make the "next" link on the most recent comic a link to the top of the page
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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616 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:58:12: <ais523> theory: because it makes something interesting happen so you know you clicked the link, yet it leaves you on the same page so you know there aren't any more
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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617 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:58:17: <ais523> question: why not just gray it out?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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618 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:59:16: <elliott> ais523: answer: styling consistency, ease of coding
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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619 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:01:59:52: <ais523> right, you'd have to have a div that acted like an a
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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620 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:00:01: <ais523> hmm, couldn't you make it an a element but just not hyperlink it anywhere?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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621 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:00:05: <ais523> href is optional on a
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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622 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:01:06: <ais523> well, we've already established we're overriding the color
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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623 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:01:43: <ais523> hmm, :visited can only override color nowadays, but :hover can override arbitrary properties (I've seen a site that makes links init-caps when you hover them, and lowercase otherwise)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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624 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:04: <ais523> in that case, couldn't you do a pure-CSS analytics thing that figured out where the person was putting their mouse?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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625 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:18: <elliott> ais523: probably, but what would it give you?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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626 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:23: <ais523> elliott: not any more, there were people using :visited to get information about their visitor's previous sites
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627 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:41: <ais523> ah, OK
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628 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:02:52: <ais523> so it's only properties that don't change metrics, I guess
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629 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:10:11: <elliott> ais523: how's Feather?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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630 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:10:24: * ais523 /clear
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631 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:11:05: <elliott> ais523: how's the @ implementation of feather? :P
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632 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:11:30: <elliott> Friendship: It's implemented, just waiting on ais523 for Feather.
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633 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:13:52: <elliott> ais523: wow, Esperanza had over 5000 subpages?
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634 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:01: * elliott likes to just ask ais523 random questions about Wikipedia.
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635 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:45: <ais523> admittedly, that did surprise me when you said it
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636 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:14:49: <ais523> Esperanza really really got out of hand
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637 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:00: <ais523> *Esperanza
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638 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:32: <ais523> number of edits to esperanza pages before they were deleted
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639 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:15:36: <ais523> probably
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640 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:19:25: <ais523> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Esperanza is a great but rather long read
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641 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:19:30: <ais523> at least the nomination message
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642 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:20:36: <ais523> the ironic thing is, I'm not sure that an oligarchy is a worse way to run a wiki than the technique used for Wikipedia as a whole
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643 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:21:31: <elliott> ais523: I read the start of that ages ago
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644 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:22:03: <ais523> well, it was pretty insular
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645 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:23:22: <ais523> it was basically splitting the community into esperanzans and non-esperanzans
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646 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:25:50: <ais523> the DRV was hilarious, it was about whether the history should be deleted or not
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647 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:36:11: <elliott> ais523: hey, how do you use IPv4 multicast?
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648 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:36:35: <ais523> I don't know, and am not convinced anyone actually implements it
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649 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:38:13: <ais523> perhaps Wikipedia will know?
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650 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:43:46: <elliott> ais523: I read the Wikipedia article but it was long and boring
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651 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:08: <ais523> fair enough
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652 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:34: <ais523> calamari: for a literal "at any one time" that tracks realtime, TMMDLPTOELPAITAFNFAL
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653 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:37: <ais523> (I /think/ that's the name)
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654 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:44:51: <ais523> gah, it isn't
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655 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:06: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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656 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:19: <ais523> I was /so/ close
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657 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:45:47: <ais523> added a D where there shouldn't be one, added an O where there shouldn't be one, missed an A
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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658 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:46:03: <ais523> I think this is an acceptable amount of misrememberance of such a ridiculous name
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659 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:47:21: <calamari> ais523: definitely, thanks
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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660 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:47:47: <ais523> calamari: oh, for a language that works like /that/, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Taxi, but it's not quite what you're describing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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661 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:50:40: <ais523> elliott: wierd is BF-like and 2D, IIRC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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662 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:50:58: <ais523> you're thinking of Whirl, but that's pretty much just an encoding for a BF-like language in terms of 0 and 1
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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663 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:09: <elliott> ais523: hey, is there any way to preview some edits to a page without all the editing tools around it? (MediaWiki)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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664 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:30: <ais523> elliott: no built-in way, I think
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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665 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:54:39: <ais523> you could probably rig something up with JavaScript
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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666 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:56:39: <calamari> ais523: yep whirl seems the closest.. not a very interesting implementation, but basically it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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667 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:02:57:01: <ais523> the problem with whirl is that there's no penalty for changing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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668 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:54:45: <elliott> ais523: have you ever created an esolang that destroyed the world
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669 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:55:40: <ais523> elliott: I don't think so
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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670 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:55:47: <ais523> do you think the world still exists?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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671 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:56:31: <shachaf> ais523: Why does elliott hate me?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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672 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:56:51: <ais523> shachaf: you're insufficiently purely functional
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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673 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:57:23: <elliott> ais523: Well, the International Earth-Destruction Advisory Board lists the current geocide count at 1, so I'm forced to conclude that the world has been destroyed at least once.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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674 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:57:37: <ais523> Sgeo_: it has first-class functions
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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675 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:09: <ais523> not sure, you could check Category:2008 for mine
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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676 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:10: <ais523> probably
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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677 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:38: <elliott> ais523: "Probably"? You don't have that many esolangs.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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678 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:58:59: <shachaf> Little known fact: ais523 is the pseudonym of famous esolang inventor ais524.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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679 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:03: <ais523> Sgeo_: no, only all points after it was originally invented
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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680 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:26: <elliott> ais523: How's Feather?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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681 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:42: <ais523> elliott: I haven't worked on it for ages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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682 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:05:59:44: <ais523> and don't plan to in the near future
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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683 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:42:48: <ais523> elliott: hey, you edited Burn, this means you need to figure out how it works
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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684 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:45:12: <ais523> night!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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685 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:06:45:18: <ais523> and I know I only ever wrote one
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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686 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:08:35:23: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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687 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:09:55:48: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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688 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:09:58:39: <ais523> btw, I disagree with the topic, in that I believe a language can be sub-TC but still useful
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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689 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:32: <ais523> useful means it has a use
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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690 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:45: <ais523> e.g. +. BF is inferior in pretty much every way to, say, uuencoded text
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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691 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:04:58: <ais523> which means that it's not that useful
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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692 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:14:44: <ais523> shachaf: I think it's a push-down automaton, and TC if you're allowed to use files
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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693 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:33: <ais523> (push-down automaton can be done using register auto variables in a recursive function which contains no non-register auto variables or non-register parameters; because you can't take a pointer to them, there's nothing preventing you having an infinite number of stack frames)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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694 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:34: <shachaf> ais523: There's still a maximum path length, isn't there?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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695 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:15:44: <ais523> you can store infinite data in one file
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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696 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:15: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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697 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:21: <ais523> or just absolute seeks to 0 each time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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698 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:33: <ais523> hmm, not sure about that one, actually
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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699 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:16:40: <ais523> might be worth creating a simple esolang to test that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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700 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:22: <ais523> let's make it a BF derivative to annoy Phantom_Hoover
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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701 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:34: <fizzie> ais523: I don't think anyone really "agrees" with the topic; that's why it is the topic.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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702 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:36: <ais523> let's see… identical to BF, apart from instead of moving one space left, < moves to the start of the tape
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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703 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:17:59: <ais523> itidus20: have you ever tried to write esoprograms?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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704 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:18:03: <ais523> not languages, programs in them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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705 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:20:25: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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706 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:20:36: <ais523> anyway, I find esoprogramming more useful for learning about esolangs than esolang development
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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707 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:21:54: <ais523> I have new insights less often than I used to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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708 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:22:00: <ais523> but it sill happens occasionally
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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709 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:22:58: <ais523> I think back-to-start-< BF is TC, actually; you can store two counters in unary on the tape with 1s, separated by a 0, and increment, decrement, and zero-test them independently
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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710 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:24:08: <ais523> *still
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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711 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:16: <ais523> that's quite ambitious
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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712 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:21: <ais523> are you sure you think in a language at all, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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713 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:32: <ais523> I'm pretty certain I don't think in English
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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714 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:38: <ais523> I can convert my thoughts into English, e.g. to type them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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715 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:26:57: <ais523> but occasionally I'll start writing a sentence and then realise I don't know all the words in it in English, and get stuck
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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716 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:22: <fizzie> ais523: How do you decrement the counter?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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717 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:43: <ais523> [>]+>-[>]- for the first counter
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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718 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:27:49: <ais523> [>]>[>]- for the second counter
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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719 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:02: <ais523> (this is starting from the first cell, obviously)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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720 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:12: <ais523> err
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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721 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:17: <ais523> no, that makes no sense
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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722 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:38: <ais523> I'm tired
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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723 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:55: <fizzie> ais523: When you've [>]'d to the separating zero, it sounds like it'd be slightly too late to decrement any more.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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724 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:28:56: <ais523> fizzie: I guess you need three cuonters
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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725 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:11: <ais523> and you always increment at the end and decrement at the start
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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726 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:49: <ais523> then, you have (increment first+decrement second), (increment second+decrement third), (increment third)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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727 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:29:55: <ais523> which gives you complete control over the second and third counters
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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728 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:30:03: <ais523> and the first is just junk
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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729 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:30:54: <ais523> and it still isn't a big seller
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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730 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:38:52: <ais523> hey, anyone here know how you write a literal hyphen in math mode in LaTeX?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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731 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:38:56: <ais523> or even a literal n-dash would be good
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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732 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:39:01: <ais523> neither \- nor -- works
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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733 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:40:34: <ais523> I want it inside a mathsf, really
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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734 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:40:41: <ais523> textsf, sadly, is not a text-mode version of mathsf
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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735 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:41:04: <ais523> and all the predecessor papers have been naughty and used mathsf for things that are supposed to be interpreted as a single word, not a long multiplication
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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736 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:42:22: <ais523> oh wow, I found it with a search, it's nontrivial
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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737 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:24: <ais523> you have to define an escaped-hyphen thing yourself
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738 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:26: <ais523> there we go
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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739 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:10:43:43: <ais523> http://www.logic.at/staff/salzer/etc/mhyphen/ recommends \mathchardef\mhyphen="2D (and it seems to work)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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740 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:11:54:18: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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741 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:17:59:26: <elliott_> 10:17:34: <fizzie> ais523: I don't think anyone really "agrees" with the topic; that's why it is the topic.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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742 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:18:01:10: <elliott_> 10:20:25: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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743 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-07.txt:18:01:16: <elliott_> trying to fathom how ais523 said yes to a statement this meaningless
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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744 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:31:53: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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745 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:06: <elliott_> hi ais523
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746 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:15: <ais523> hi elliott_
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747 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:32:23: <ais523> and what are you doing up at 6:30am?
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748 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:31: <ais523> elliott_: I doubt I'm doing the same thing as you
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749 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:42: <ais523> note that I /joined/ at 6:30am, rather than being here all night as usual
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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750 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:34:44: <ais523> also, I'm at work
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751 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:35:11: <elliott_> ais523: you're typing on IRC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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752 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:38:03: <ais523> meanwhile, has anyone thought about Underload with /just/ () and lambdas?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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753 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:06: <ais523> oerjan: you can desugar lambdas into Underload code, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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754 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:18: <oerjan> ais523: yes, i wrote a section on that
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755 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:30: <ais523> so, you can express everything but () in terms of lambdas
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756 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:43:48: <ais523> actually, I also noticed independently that lambdas could be desugared into Underload
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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757 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:03: <ais523> but my syntax is x/(y/((x)(y)))
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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758 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:24: <ais523> making it postfix is more consistent, but harder to read ;)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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759 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:34: <oerjan> ais523: actually () = [-] in my lambda syntax
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760 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:44:50: <ais523> yep, I know
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761 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:45:04: <ais523> I guess most consistent of all would be (code)(variable)command
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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762 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:45:08: <ais523> but that would be almost completely unreadable
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763 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:21: <oerjan> ais523: oh wait no, [-] =
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764 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:40: <ais523> not in my case either
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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765 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:47: <ais523> i.e. x/(x) is equivalent to ^
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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766 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:46:53: <ais523> (and (x/(x)) is equivalent to (^))
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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767 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:06:49:13: <ais523> the null string would be x/((x))
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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768 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:18:51: <elliott_> ais523: Should I sleep?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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769 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:19:01: <ais523> elliott_: I think so :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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770 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:19:47: <elliott_> ais523: You're just saying that because I spammed the channel with laughter. :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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771 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:16: <ais523> inded
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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772 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:18: <ais523> *indeed
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773 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:20:22: <ais523> it's a sign you're tired
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774 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:21:08: <elliott_> ais523: No way, I spam the channel literally all the time as long as oerjan hasn't spoken in the last fifteen minutes or so.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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775 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:26: <ais523> I find walking out in the morning sunlight helps a lot
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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776 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:37: <ais523> I'll typically go for a 1-2 hour walk at 6am or so if I'm awake
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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777 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:29:45: <ais523> although this time I took the bus into work instead
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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778 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:35:16: <elliott_> ok im hold vote pikhq_ Sgeo_ ais523 oerjan zzo38 shachaf
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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779 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:36:48: <ais523> elliott_: yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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780 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:37:15: <ais523> elliott_: and my experience when I have a similar sleep cycle is, that it can't be fixed, but it can be temporarily stablised if you need to do so for some reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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781 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:37:37: <ais523> I can stabilise mine with two days' setup, for about three days at a time, until I end up feeling really tired
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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782 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:30: <elliott_> ais523: shachaf's vote plees
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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783 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:47: <ais523> shachaf: should
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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784 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:41:58: <shachaf> ais523: Tell elliott_ I'm no moralist.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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785 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:42:06: <ais523> elliott_: shachaf says yes ;)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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786 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:15: <ais523> 7-8am is actually a common sort of time for me to go to sleep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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787 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:28: <ais523> and it refreshes me better than sleeping at most other times of day
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788 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:43:39: <ais523> even if/though it's probably dark when I wake up
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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789 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:07:44:04: <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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790 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:12:59: <ais523> zzo38: are you good enough at astrology to answer the question of when someone should go to sleep with it?
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791 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:13:23: <zzo38> ais523: I think so. But I would require geographical coordinates to do so.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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792 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:13:40: <ais523> zzo38: Hexham, Northumberland
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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793 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:14:13: <ais523> 54.971N, 2.101W
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794 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:14:14: <ais523> I just looked it up
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795 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:18:40: <ais523> hmm, does this mean that everyone in hexham should be awake right now?
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796 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:21:39: <ais523> fair enough
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797 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:37:56: <ais523> the one opposite the sun, but I'm not sure what that's called
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798 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:47:08: <ais523> indeed
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799 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:53:46: <ais523> possibly, but back then, I think it was a plausible theory to conclude that planets just did that sometimes
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800 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:54:35: <zzo38> ais523: But shouldn't they try to think of the question, why would they sometimes do that?
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801 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:55:13: <ais523> there were loads of things people didn't know back then
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802 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:55:20: <ais523> still are now, but there were more then
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803 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:08:57:09: <zzo38> ais523: But still, even if you don't know, if you know of retrograde motion, it would seem a reasonable question to ask why they are sometimes retrograde.
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804 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:18:50: <fizzie> ais523: I was under the impression that retrograde motion was solved using those epicycles.
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805 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:19:05: <ais523> oh, right, indeed
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806 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:19:13: <ais523> the problem with epicycles being that they're orbit-complete
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807 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:09:24:50: <oerjan> ais523: by orbit-complete, do you mean that if you heap enough of them on, you can get _any_ conceivable orbit?
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808 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:10:12:50: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
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810 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:11:51:28: <ais523> hmm, tdwtf sidebar is great, they just taught me that the inverse femtobarn (fb^-1) is a unit that's actually used occasionally for non-ironic purposes
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811 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:12:17:58: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
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814 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:07:14: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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815 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:17: <ais523> hey Phantom_Hoover, I created a BF derivative yesterday
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816 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:24: <ais523> although it was in the context of seeing if a certain set of operations was TC
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817 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:16:34:37: <ais523> it's BF, except that < rewinds to the first element on the tape rather than moving one square
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818 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:35:18: <elliott> 07:44:04: <ais523> hmm, it probably will be light when you wake up, though; I predict you wake up at around 4-5pm
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819 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:35:27: <elliott> ais523: 4:30 pm or so, so yep
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820 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:37:32: <elliott> ais523: yay, another legitimate user passed the captcha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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821 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:37:45: <elliott> ais523: which means legitimate users are now tied with spammers for passing the registration captchas
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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822 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:38:56: <elliott> ais523: why is Ytommyro93i not in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Log/newusers?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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823 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:54:52: <ais523> elliott: did you merge them with deleted spam user?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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824 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:55:45: <elliott> ais523: no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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825 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:17:55:51: <ais523> also, are you feeling good/bad about when you woke up?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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826 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:05:20: <ais523> btw, anyone know why Slashdot sometimes interprets <i> as <blockquote>?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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827 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:22: <ais523> I would laugh so much if that was the reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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828 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:31: <ais523> *that were
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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829 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:08:37: <ais523> because apparently being tired makes me pedantic
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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830 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:13: <ais523> I'm wondering if they used to italicise quotes by default
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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831 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:25: <ais523> then decided to do an s/<i>/<blockquote>/g on their database
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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832 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:37: <ais523> to make them blockquotes instead
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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833 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:47: <ais523> ISTR that too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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834 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:11:58: <ais523> and apparently they did it even in the middle of a sentence
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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835 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:15:55: <ais523> I don't wrap manually
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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836 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:16:00: <ais523> except when my browser does it for me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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837 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:16:05: * ais523 glares at SunOS Mozilla
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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838 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:15: <ais523> because it was a choice of SunOS and Windows and I was trying to run POSIXy stuff
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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839 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:19: <ais523> (including but not limited to C-INTERCAL)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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840 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:17:41: * ais523 suspects that this answer is less stupid than elliott might have been discussing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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841 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:01: <ais523> wait, is there seriously a major push to name it something other than [[Abortion]]? or is this about subarticles?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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842 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:16: <elliott> ais523: "The Arbitration Committee has requested a binding, structured community discussion on the article titles "Support for the legalization of abortion" and "Opposition to the legalization of abortion"."
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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843 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:39: <ais523> so typical of Wikipedia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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844 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:46: <ais523> also, hmm at [[absurd brainfuck]]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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845 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:46: <elliott> ais523: prediction: half the people want "Support for the continued illegality of abortion" and "Opposition to the continued illegality of abortion"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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846 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:50: <ais523> does that article even make sense at all?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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847 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:18:55: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/absurd_brainfuck
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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848 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:19:54: <ais523> I mean, OK, TwoDucks is uncomputable, but it has nicely and precisely defined semantics, even if they're unimplementable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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849 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:00: <ais523> Absurd BF doesn't mean anything
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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850 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:35: <ais523> oh, right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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851 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:20:47: <ais523> I should really put a caps redirect in my autolinker, but I can't be bothered
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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852 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:21:14: <ais523> (there's an URL construction scheme that goes to the article verbatim if it exists, the name in various other cases if it doesn't, and the search page if none of those do)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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853 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:21:24: <ais523> (it's intended for use by the Go button)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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854 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:02: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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855 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:49: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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856 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:25:54: <ais523> <ais523> you mean magnifying glass, not hourglass, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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857 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:35:13: <ais523> it's more similar to "wikify"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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858 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:35:24: <ais523> but there's a content change too (if a trivial correction)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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859 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:41:24: <ais523> it might almost be a good idea if it made some sort of sense
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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860 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:41:31: <ais523> but it doesn't
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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861 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:44:55: <elliott> ais523: realisation: I think I took down the sitenotice ~1 day before cpressey visited the wiki for the first time in months :D
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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862 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:17: <ais523> oerjan: Haskell has a reverse state monad?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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863 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:23: <ais523> I can, umm, sort of see how that would work
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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864 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:45:29: <ais523> but not think of any applications for it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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865 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:46:41: <ais523> bleh, mindfuck is a different thing from brainfuck and minscrew?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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866 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:47:57: <ais523> *mindscrew
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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867 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:48:44: <ais523> <Andrew> I just googled “state monad simple example” and this link cropped up.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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868 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:52:48: <elliott> ais523: wait, presumably the reason that user isn't in the creation log is because they /already existed/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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869 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:18:52:58: <ais523> that's a plausible enough explanation
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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870 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:12:16: <ais523> meanwhile, Slashdot are busy arguing about whether the recent claim someone's made to have produced a 230% efficient LED are sane or not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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871 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:12:49: <ais523> the argument is that actually it's an electrically-powered heat pump, that converts ambient heat to light, and more such heat than the electrical input
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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872 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:02: <ais523> quite a few commentors are suggesting connecting the thing to a solar panel to see what happens…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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873 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:43: <ais523> indeed, but that's doable with modern technology, I think
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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874 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:13:51: <ais523> oerjan: no, it needs an energy source
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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875 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:14:02: <ais523> heat pumps create a temperature difference and consume energy to do so
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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876 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:14:18: <ais523> now, there is an energy source (the electricity), but it's less than the amount of heat pumped…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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877 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:15:30: <ais523> elliott: you know what you should /actually/ do instead, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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878 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:17: <ais523> oh, btw, I had an awesome esolang idea in a dream weeks ago, and now can't remember most of it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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879 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:30: <ais523> (note that as I had it in a dream, it may not follow the rules of logic, or fail to make any sense for other reasons)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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880 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:44: <ais523> but I remember that the main concept was that there was only one program, which was a physical obect
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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881 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:45: <ais523> *object
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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882 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:20:59: <ais523> and you programmed in it by physically travelling elsewhere in the world so that you were looking at it from a different perspective
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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883 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:02: <oerjan> ais523: hey it could still be better than most on the wiki
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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884 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:03: <ais523> which changed what it meant
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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885 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:21:59: <ais523> wow, now I'm laughing out load at that for some reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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886 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:40: <ais523> well, both
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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887 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:47: <ais523> elliott: fractal
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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888 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:22:57: <ais523> it helps if you know the object that oerjan's describing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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889 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:05: <ais523> now I'm wondering if any of the things have ever been made?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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890 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:27: <ais523> olsner: arguably, constraint-based programming does that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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891 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:23:34: <ais523> oklopol-Clue, Proud, etc
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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892 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:24:09: <olsner> ais523: oh, that's kind of what I was thinking about yes... sounds boring :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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893 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:02: <ais523> now I want one of those, but I bet they're really expensive
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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894 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:15: <ais523> and I'd have nowhere to put it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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895 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:25:51: <ais523> btw, I think it's theoretically possible to have a (fractal) digital sundial that shows the date too (not the year, though)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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896 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:26:18: <ais523> I have the feeling that they aren't made very much for that reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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897 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:26:59: <oerjan> ais523: i recall discussing that previously and concluding that there must be days in the spring that cannot be distinguished from days in the autumn
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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898 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:23: <ais523> fizzie: I just found that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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899 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:31: <ais523> €91 is more than I'm willing to pay for a digital sundial
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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900 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:27:42: <ais523> it's in the range of things that I could afford, but more than the value I put on one
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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901 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:29:56: <ais523> elliott: why does that surprise you?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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902 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:06: <elliott> ais523: it doesn't, just worries
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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903 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:17: <ais523> it was probably inevitable, wasn't it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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904 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:30:28: <elliott> ais523: :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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905 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:31:39: <ais523> elliott: I don't even think he's intentionally shilling
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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906 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:32:13: <ais523> and nah, ANKOS introduced me to a bunch of paradigms I wouldn't know existed otherwise
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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907 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:32:28: <ais523> admittedly I had to find more reliable sources about them, but just knowing they exist is good
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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908 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:34:05: <ais523> Friendship: you just made that up, right? still, it's great
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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909 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:34:22: <ais523> also, this probably means it's quite easy to determine his password if you know where to look…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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910 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:34: <ais523> elliott: you know the Star Trek-related link that you wikified?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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911 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:39: <ais523> are you sure it's not actually human-added spam?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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912 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:36:57: <ais523> an attempt to add a specific link in an attempt to make it look ontopic?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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913 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:19: <elliott> ais523: 90% sure or so
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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914 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:29: <ais523> Friendship: not the Wikipedia link
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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915 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:31: <ais523> the external
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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916 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:37:57: <ais523> but it's not "Spock's Brain", which is famously the worst Star Wars episode ever
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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917 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:38:22: <ais523> err, Start Trek
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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918 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:38:26: <ais523> *Star Trek
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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919 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:11: <ais523> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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920 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:20: <elliott> ais523: also, the user who added it isn't an IP
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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921 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:38: <ais523> I guess I'm just used to Wikipedia trolls who came up with really complex and sophisticated methods of spamming that are about on a level of what I've been describing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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922 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:39:58: <ais523> not for any obvious reason, either
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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923 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:11: <elliott> ais523: [[List of ideas]] is weirdly WardsWikiish
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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924 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:37: <ais523> I like that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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925 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:41:54: <ais523> people should use that style of wiki more often
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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926 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:19: <ais523> strangely enough, Talk pages often end up like that on Wikipedia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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927 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:34: <ais523> especially if they're being periodically refactored but everyone but the person refactoring is ignoring the refactoring
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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928 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:42:42: <ais523> (as in, not reverting it, just not respecting the fact it's happened)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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929 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:50:36: <elliott> ais523: I think it might have been Chaitin who wrote that Lisp interpreter.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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930 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:51:06: <ais523> elliott: that rings a bell
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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931 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:51:14: <ais523> although I wouldn't have got it without the reminder, I think
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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932 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:01: <ais523> yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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933 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:11: <ais523> this was almost a problem in my research a couple of years back
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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934 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:52:38: <ais523> it took me some work to prove that the suspiciously diophantine-equation-like set of inequalities I had was actually decidable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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935 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:03: <ais523> and equations concerning polynomials on multiple variables, all of which are integers
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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936 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:15: <ais523> olsner: go swat elliott for me, will you?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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937 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:26: <ais523> err, oerjan:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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938 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:49: <oerjan> ais523: i cannot do that, it was entrapment
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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939 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:53:59: <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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940 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:19:54:07: <ais523> actually
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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941 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:09:10: <elliott> <ais523> OK, olsner, you swat him then
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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942 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:15:24: <ais523> ooh, apparently I've been on Reddit for a year, for the nearest day
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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943 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:16:30: <ais523> ooh, I got 16 comment karma for pointing out a respect in which Emacs and Eclipse were equally good, in the middle of what was becoming an editor war
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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944 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:16:42: <ais523> presumably, because claiming that they're equally good at something doesn't annoy fanboys of either side
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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945 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:17:12: <ais523> well, it was correcting an implication made by the parent comment
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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946 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:04: <ais523> oh, the single comment that gave me the /most/ karma was for bashing PHP, but it still wasn't very much
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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947 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:08: <ais523> after that, for bashing VHDL
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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948 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:18:55: <ais523> were you?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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949 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:22: <ais523> someone here got over 1000 karma from one comment, IIRC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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950 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:28: <ais523> but I forget who or why
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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951 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:20:35: <ais523> hmm, what's the single highest-rated comment on Reddit ever, I wonder?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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952 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:21:57: <ais523> oh right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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953 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:03: <ais523> was it first post ever, or something?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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954 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:32: <ais523> oh, right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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955 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:22:35: <ais523> who's qgyh2?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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956 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:08: <ais523> there's something weirdly circular about upvoting someone because they have high karma
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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957 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:17: <ais523> and, umm, what's the picture (and is it SFW)?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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958 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:23:46: <ais523> well, it's in r/pics
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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959 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:01: <ais523> so I assumed the post was at least vaguely ontopic
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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960 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:08: <ais523> not the comment itself, but the post it was attached to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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961 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:33: <elliott> ais523: oh, and it was a self-post, so he got no karma for it :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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962 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:35: <ais523> oh, it's a test /post/, not test comment?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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963 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:24:45: <ais523> also, why aren't self-posts worth karma?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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964 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:25:16: <elliott> ais523: because "UPVOTE IF DSKLSDJFLKSDFJ;" and all that kind of shit are self-posts
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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965 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:25:43: <ais523> surely making them worth karma would encourage people not to upvote them?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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966 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:12: <ais523> btw, highly-rated YouTube comments are often hilariously insightful parodies of the whole YouTube comment thing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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967 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:27: <ais523> well, by /YouTube/ standards
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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968 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:28: <elliott> ais523: no, people upvote them no matter what, because reddit is full of idiots
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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969 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:44: <ais523> hmm, right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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970 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:26:48: <ais523> I mostly stay confined to proggit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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971 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:27:02: <ais523> and occasionally r/nethack, if we're trying to do an announcement there
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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972 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:30:02: <ais523> elliott: proggit's comments are typically low-quality but there are frequently high-quality ones there too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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973 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:30:18: <ais523> although that's more pronounced in Slashdot, which almost always eventually ends up with a few excellent comments
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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974 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:38:30: <ais523> elliott: I thought of your roguelike too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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975 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:38:36: <ais523> it isn't, but what it is is actually moderately interesting
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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976 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:20:57:17: <ais523> ooh, now we can run it in the JS interp that's embedded in PHP!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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977 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:21:00:38: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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978 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:22:25:15: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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979 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-08.txt:23:15:52: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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980 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:51:30: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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981 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:13: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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982 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:27: <ais523> hi Phantom_Hoover
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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983 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:35: * Phantom_Hoover remembers that period where he thought ais523 was a mathematician.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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984 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:43: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I was!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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985 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:54:45: <ais523> I just amn't any more
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986 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:20:55:24: <ais523> is there such a concept?
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987 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:04:40: <Phantom_Hoover> And doesn't ais523 research formally-verified compilers?
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988 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:02: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: not really; I do prove that the algorithms behind the compilers are correct
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989 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:13: <ais523> but I don't prove that the compilers that are intended to follow those algorithms actually do
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990 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:05:18: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, yes, which is hardly more "pure" than proving $theorem is correct.
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991 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:07:05: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: would you call this a pure maths result?: given a set of equalities/inequalities, each of which is of one of the forms (a = b, a <= b, a <= b+c, a <= b*c), and all the unknowns are known to be nonnegative integers, it is decidable whether a given set has a solution or not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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992 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:07:56: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, well, TbH, pure maths is a pretty useless concept; I was joking before.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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993 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:08:25: <ais523> you didn't answer my question
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994 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:10:40: <ais523> elliott: "foundations" = ?
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995 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:10:52: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, logic.
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996 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:09: <ais523> well, I'm pretty happy that linear and affine logic were invented
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997 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:17: <ais523> or Verity probably wouldn't exist
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998 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:18: <elliott> ais523: logic, set theory, type theory, etc.
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999 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:31: <ais523> yep
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1000 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:11:41: <ais523> I'm not convinced that they're useless at all
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1001 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:15:10: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, they're obviously very useful, because you can't build without foundations, and they're interesting in their own right; I (personally) don't enjoy studying them as much as other things, but elliott seems to be veering towards declaring that they're the One True Path.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1002 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:58:06: <ais523> one of the best reasons to use Perl
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1003 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:21:58:14: <ais523> because it has libraries that nothing else has
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1004 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-09.txt:23:24:15: <ais523> oh, I've known about it for a while
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1005 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:11:51: <oklofok> ais523: what else do you know that you've been holding out on me?
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1006 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:12:10: <ais523> oklofok: err, I don't know
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1007 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:17:45: <ais523> oklofok: one thing I've been wondering about is if CBPV and Underload are equivalent or not (allowing for the difference in typedness)
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1008 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:17:55: <ais523> I think CBPV embeds in Underload, but not trivially the other way round
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1009 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:26:26: <ais523> I know what you mean
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1010 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:00:26:36: <ais523> partly because my supervisor keeps thinking things are relevant when they aren't
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1011 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:11: <elliott> ais523: what's context for?
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1012 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:25: <ais523> elliott: ?
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1013 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:31: <ais523> oh, I see
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1014 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:01:15:36: <oklofok> ais523: it's one more than the previous
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1015 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:07:50: <elliott> hi ais523
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1016 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:07:59: <ais523> hi elliott
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1017 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:03:30:31: <elliott> even ais523 thinks it's meaningless, and he invented Feather
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1018 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:09:58:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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1019 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:17:35:34: <elliott> @ask ais523 What is our policy on modifying your own talk page comments days after they were posted? If we don't have one, make one up.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1020 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:06: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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1021 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:25: <elliott> hi ais523
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1022 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:28: <ais523> hi elliott
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1023 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:00:29: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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1024 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:01:08: <ais523> @messages
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1025 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:01:34: <ais523> elliott: it's OK as long as you aren't misleading people as to the context of replies to those comments
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1026 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:02:52: <elliott> ais523: even for substantial additions over the course of days?
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1027 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:03:24: <ais523> if the comments haven't been replied to, I don't see a problem
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1028 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:21:03:27: <ais523> although you should probably bump the timestamp
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1029 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:45:33: <elliott> ais523: Did you know that dependent type systems are improper?
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1030 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:45:53: <ais523> hmm, I don't see why they can't use type inference to some extent
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1031 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:46:10: <ais523> sure, it's undecidable, but that doesn't mean that you can't infer when it /is/ decidable and leave the program to annotate the tricky bits
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1032 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-10.txt:22:46:25: <ais523> oh, and ADTs are totally a type system feature (pattern matching isn't)
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1033 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:00:06:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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1034 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:07:43:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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1035 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:34: <ais523> hey, it's Sunday, isn't it?
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1036 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:45: <ais523> I thought it was Monday, I'm at work at the moment
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1037 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:48: <ais523> because of that
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1038 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:04:52: <ais523> and I was wondering why there was nobody here
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1039 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:04: <shadwick> ais523: for eodermdrome, if a command has an input set, would it get a char from stdin, check it against the input set, then check if the match graph is a subgraph of the state? or should it check if the match is a subgraph before consuming input and continuing
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1040 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:14: <shadwick> ais523: just reading this eodermdrome page
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1041 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:13:41: <ais523> shadwick: it only consumes input if it matches, IIRC
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1042 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:14:05: <ais523> as in, matches the input set too
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1043 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:14:16: <ais523> if the input isn't in the input set, it isn't consumed even if the subgraph matches
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1044 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:16:09: <shadwick> ais523: ok cool, and one more question: the ascii art graph uses pipes to connect the nodes, and the nice "initial state" picture uses single headed arrows.. are the edges one-way/directed?
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1045 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:16:24: <ais523> no, they're undirected
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1046 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:17:43: <ais523> it's hard to figure out how to do it efficiently
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1047 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:17:53: <ais523> although IIRC oklopol tried; I can't remember if he succeeded
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1048 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:46:45: <ais523> ESME!!!!!!!!!
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1049 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:46:46: <ais523> your turn
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1050 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:09:53:25: <ais523> I seem to remember that the Dagoth at Esolang has the comma in a different place from the Dagoth in Morrowind
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1051 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:07:10: <shadwick> ais523: I don't see how the example bitwise cyclic tag interpreter code for eodermdrome should work out.. the first move leaves us with the graph "miewehit" and no other actions' math graphs are subgraphs of that
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1052 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:09:10: <ais523> let's see… miewehit has a triangle (formed by ieh), once of whose corners is connected to two degree-one nodes, one of whose corners is connected to one degree-one node
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1053 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:09:15: <ais523> note that the letters aren't part of the graph itself
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1054 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:10:22: <shadwick> ais523: k thanks. I'm trying to look into this more
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1055 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:11:06: <ais523> and byanad buguramat requires a degree-at-least-3 node connected to two degree-exactly-one nodes, and to be connected by a degree-exactly-two node to any other node
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1056 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:11:41: <ais523> so the (1) and (0) lines should both match the initial state
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1057 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:12:34: <shadwick> ais523: ok I think I see what you mean. I just gotta draw this stuff out haha
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1058 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:12:58: <ais523> shadwick: there are some ASCII art drawings linked from the article, might save you the trouble
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1059 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:14:46: <shadwick> ais523: hah I've gotta read the Wiki article on Graph isomorphism now as well. I'm not very well versed in this stuff at all
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1060 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:15:08: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's funnier as a redlink
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1061 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:15:12: <ais523> graue: link?
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1062 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:10:16:47: <graue> ais523: hold on, i made a slight modification to make it shorter
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1063 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-11.txt:14:35:20: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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1064 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:11:56: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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1065 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:12:22: <Lindrum> Hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1066 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:06:13:14: <ais523> hi Lindrum
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1067 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:12:18:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1068 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:12:19:47: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1069 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:13:14:18: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1070 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:13:15:05: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1071 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:14:40:52: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1072 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:16:05:10: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1073 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:16:15:54: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1074 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:17:24:11: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1075 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:23: <ais523> wow, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html is really out of date
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1076 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:41: <ais523> it mentions GPLv3, but most of its comments about other licenses are written from the point of view of a world where GPLv3 doesn't exit
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1077 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:43: <ais523> *exist
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1078 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:19:36:59: <ais523> e.g. calling 4-clause BSD GPL-incompatible (it is compatible with v3 but not v2)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1079 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:09:00: <ais523> myndzi isn't here
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1080 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:11: <elliott> ais523: ugh, ping
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1081 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:22: <ais523> elliott: pong
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1082 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:23:27: <ais523> why the ping? why the ugh?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1083 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:40:53: <ais523> elliott: insane opinion: all websites should be dark-text-on-light-background, so that when I prefer the reverse, I can just reverse-video the entire browser rather than changing for individual pages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1084 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:15: <ais523> why backup just the names?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1085 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:50: <ais523> err, typically the file contents are more important than the file names
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1086 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:43:59: <ais523> if the file isn't redownloadable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1087 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:44:26: <ais523> itidus21: there are quite a few files I have that aren't stored online anywhere
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1088 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:44:29: <ais523> that's what backups are /for/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1089 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:46:33: <elliott> ais523: why are you arguing with the debate equivalent of fungot
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1090 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:20:47:20: <ais523> elliott: because I don't pay enough attention to figure out personalities of people unless I've talked to them really lots
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1091 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-12.txt:21:16:51: -!- ais523 has quit ().
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1092 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:19:42: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1093 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:41:11: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: it's capitalised "OCaml", which would have worked just as well
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1094 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:17:41:27: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Yeah, I realized that too late.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1095 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:17: <ais523> elliott: hmm, well it was intended as a joke…
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1096 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:21: <ais523> this is as bad as the esolang/not esolang thing
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1097 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:55:27: <ais523> I'd prefer to categorise it as nonjoke, though
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1098 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:56:16: <elliott> ais523: we seem to treat direct brainfuck ciphers as joke languages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1099 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:56:26: <elliott> ais523: btw, did you hear that someone wrote an underload self-interp?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1100 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:00: <ais523> elliott: you mean, not the ()^ joke one?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1101 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:06: <ais523> it shouldn't be too hard
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1102 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:22: <ais523> in fact, it should be pretty easy
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1103 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:19:57:22: <elliott> ais523: yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1104 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:03:46: <elliott> ais523: hey, is it possible to do a map over every parameter in mediawiki?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1105 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:11: <ais523> not as far as I know, unless you know all the possible parameter names, and only then via the stupidest form of iteration
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1106 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:38: <ais523> I seem to remember the devs yelling at the authors of {{for}}, too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1107 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:46: <elliott> ais523: hmm... what do templates that take arbitrary amounts of data do, then? oh, hmm, perhaps I can achieve this with X-Macros
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1108 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:48: <ais523> because it produced too much server load, or something
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1109 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:04:57: <ais523> elliott: they cap at an arbitrary number
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1110 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:00: <ais523> and yes, it does
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1111 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:08: <ais523> this is the usual way to do large hash tables
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1112 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:29: <ais523> err, yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1113 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:33: <ais523> where are you going with this?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1114 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:05:40: <elliott> ais523: trying to generate the [[EsoInterpreters]] table
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1115 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:11:16: <elliott> ais523: hmm, I have a feeling this may need more template metaprogramming than mediawiki can support
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1116 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:11:42: <ais523> this is usual
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1117 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:15:36: <elliott> ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird/sandbox/data&action=edit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1118 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:37:25: <ais523> plainlinks gets rid of the external link arrow on external links, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1119 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:38:46: <elliott> ais523: right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1120 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:52:11: <ais523> eot the llI (best viewed in a font where l and I look much the same)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1121 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:57:17: <ais523> hmm, all the known diff algorithms seem to be O(n^2) worst case
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1122 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:57:24: <ais523> so why does diff not take ages in practice?
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1123 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:58:32: <ais523> the worst case seems pretty plausible in practice, though
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1124 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:20:58:44: <ais523> (one small change near the start, one small change near the end, arbitrary changes elsewhere)
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1125 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:01:39: <fizzie> ais523: Do the tools actually guarantee optimal diffs, though? They could just be using windows of reasonable size.
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1126 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:02:35: <ais523> fizzie: I was wondering about that
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1127 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:02:40: <ais523> but this algo doesn't seem to have a concept of a window
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1128 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:03:06: * ais523 gets diffutils source
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1129 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:04:57: <fizzie> ais523: If it's the dynamic-programming tabular thing, I think you can retrofit a window into it by restricting things on the "diagonal" (+ fiddling), though I haven't thought this through.
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1130 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:02: <ais523> I was basing it on the dynamic programming algo in Wikipedia
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1131 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:54: <ais523> hmm, I'd need a good academic library to get copies of those
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1132 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:07:59: <ais523> I have access to one, but not right now
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1133 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:10:25: <ais523> elliott: meh, I can almost certainly access it legally if I just wait until tomorrow
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1134 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:17:40: <fizzie> ais523: Also to finish the quotation, "The algorithm was independently discovered as described in "Algorithms for Approximate String Matching", E. Ukkonen, Information and Control Vol. 64, 1985, pp. 100-118.". I think I've read that, or at least some string paper by Ukkonen.
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1135 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:18:20: <ais523> fizzie: finnish names are reasonably recognizable; I know a few from following Formula 1
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1136 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:19:40: <elliott> ais523: Too bad they never reach the Finnish line.
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1137 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:20:20: <ais523> elliott: I know that was a bad joke, but IIRC there have been Finnish Formula 1 world champions
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1138 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:20:23: <ais523> at least one, anyway
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1139 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:21:04: <ais523> nor do I nowadays, although I used to
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1140 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:08: <ais523> fizzie: hmm, people never write the accents on their names in the UK
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1141 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:14: <ais523> not even on the official commentary thing
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1142 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:24:18: <ais523> is it usual to omit them in Finland too?
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1143 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:29:57: <ais523> elliott: if you're going to troll fizzie, at least make it vaguely good trolling
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1144 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:30:11: <elliott> ais523: This is pretty good by Finnish standards!!!
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1145 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:08: <elliott> ais523: Did you know that Memory Alpha's main page is [[Portal:Main]]?
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1146 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:20: <ais523> yay!
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1147 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:34: <elliott> ais523: On the other hand, it's a Wikia.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1148 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:44:55: <ais523> indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1149 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:16: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: Next Generation here refers to the Star Trek series?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1150 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:22: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Yes.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1151 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:46:42: <ais523> and it sounds like the worst of all possible good ideas, to me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1152 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:47:52: <ais523> (well, no, it doesn't, I just wanted to say that)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1153 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:21:55:45: <ais523> clearly an LP that can be flipped around couldn't possibly evolve, because what use would it be to have half a song on the other side?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1154 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:00:27: <ais523> what time zone offset is PST?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1155 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:06: <ais523> trying to make sense of this Azure timezone bug
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1156 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:18: <ais523> oh, UTC-8
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1157 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:51: <elliott> ais523: they had another datetime bug?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1158 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:01:53: <fizzie> ais523: Pacific or Philippines? Both use the same abbreviation.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1159 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:00: <ais523> elliott: no, the feb 29 one
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1160 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:06: <ais523> fizzie: doesn't say, but I'm guessing Pacific from context
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1161 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:02:32: <fizzie> ais523: PST was featured prominently in that horrible "round to midnight" discussion #esoteric had.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1162 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:03:15: <ais523> oh dear
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1163 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:14: <elliott> ais523: hey, you're good at proving things sub-TC, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1164 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:38: <ais523> elliott: moderately good
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1165 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:41: <elliott> ais523: excellent
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1166 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:17:48: <ais523> although don't mention something like Dupdog or Xigxag, I don't have a clue with those
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1167 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:18:53: <elliott> ais523: well, I want to design a language like self-BCT or Clue (Keymaker), except even simpler
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1168 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:19:19: <ais523> hmm, I hate TC proofs for those sorts of languages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1169 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:20:05: * RocketJSquirrel hands ais523 an onion bagel with sour cream and caramel sauce.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1170 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:20:53: <ais523> elliott: and the reverse :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1171 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:36:37: <elliott> ais523: hmm, is it actually possible for admins to see deleted revisions of images?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1172 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:22:36:54: <ais523> not sure; it used not to be, but that mat have changed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1173 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:36:33: <fizzie> ais523: Speaking of nothing at all (but web'o'flies ~~ strace), I heard resize2fs breaks down if you try to run it under strace.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1174 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:05: <ais523> fizzie: weird; why would an ext2 resizer break under strace?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1175 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:22: <ais523> only thing I can think of is that it has timing-sensitive critical sections, or something
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1176 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:40:38: <ais523> perhaps it should be impossible to ptrace a process at realtime priority
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1177 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:41:17: <fizzie> ais523: "Reads from disk normally are never short except in the case of disk
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1178 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:41:59: <ais523> I don't see why strace would cause short reads
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1179 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:42:46: <ais523> elliott: that won't fit into 510 characters when we run the rewrite script!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1180 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:43:13: <ais523> (note: the @ log rewrite script necessarily has to be AI-complete, given the job we're trying to get it to do; it has to delete this line, for instance)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1181 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:28: <elliott> ais523: no, no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1182 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:38: <elliott> ais523: it is not the rewrite script's problem if you said nonsense in 2012.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1183 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:44:59: <ais523> elliott: doesn't it have to hide the fact it existed?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1184 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-13.txt:23:45:55: <fizzie> ais523: It was in the context of attaching strace to a running process; maybe that could interrupt a read?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1185 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:05:22: <ais523> elliott: Wikipedia used a stock timespan parser from somewhere, which has a bunch of joke features
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1186 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:17:45: <ais523> `frink 11218573000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 plancktime -> "weeks"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1187 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:17:49: <ais523> what's with the quotes at the end?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1188 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:06: <ais523> `frink 1 week -> "plancktime"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1189 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:18: <pikhq_> ais523: Quotes tell frink to just display the unit at the end...
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1190 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:31: <ais523> `frink 1 week -> plancktime
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1191 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:51: <ais523> oh, changes whether the unit's displayed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1192 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:18:53: <ais523> that's weird
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1193 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:00: <ais523> annoying VHDL feature: it doesn't allow __ in a variable name, compilers enforce this
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1194 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:21: <ais523> what sane reason is there to ban __ inside variable names? so that it can safely be used as a separator in name mangling rather than using length prefixes?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1195 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:38: <ais523> elliott: normally you ban a prefix for that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1196 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:44: <ais523> not something that can be put anywhere inside the name
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1197 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:31:56: <ais523> (fwiw, my Verity compiler uses leading 0 on internal use names, as names can't normally start with a digit)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1198 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:15: <elliott> ais523: why do you need internal names?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1199 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:35: <ais523> elliott: stuff generated by desugaring, mostly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1200 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:49: <elliott> ais523: that means you're doing it wrong :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1201 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:35:51: <ais523> also, one of the keywords ("export") works by generating a variable behind the scenes ("00export")
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1202 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:36:03: <ais523> elliott: well, the resulting variables have to be called something in the VHDL code!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1203 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:37:34: <ais523> elliott: we try to let the user's variable names get all the way through into the generated code
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1204 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:37:43: <ais523> partly this is so that the linker works, partly it's to make things easier to debug
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1205 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:38:54: <elliott> ais523: I didn't disagree with that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1206 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:39:14: <ais523> so this means that when extra variables are added, they need names too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1207 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:08: <ais523> this is variables in the functional programming sense
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1208 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:36: <ais523> so here's a problem for you: suppose you have the following code: f(x;x); f(x||x)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1209 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:43: <ais523> err, I don't mean that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1210 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:50: <ais523> f(\x.x;x); f(\x.x||x)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1211 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:42:59: <ais523> now, the two arguments to f don't have compatible signatures
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1212 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:16: <ais523> err, you have it backwards; a "name" is kind-of like a pointer or a reference
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1213 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:38: <ais523> computer science has a whole load of widely-defined terms
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1214 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:42: <ais523> you can't just redefine them at random!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1215 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:43:49: <ais523> "name" in Algol-like languages is like a reference
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1216 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:44:19: <ais523> so this needs to be desugared into f(\x1.\x2.x1;x1); f(\x1.\x2.x1||x2)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1217 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:44:31: <ais523> (the first throws away x2)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1218 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:15: <ais523> elliott: now, suppose I do f(\x.x;x); f(\x.x||x); f(g)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1219 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:20: <ais523> and g has the same type as \x.x;x
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1220 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:37: <ais523> oh wait, in that case I can change g to \j.g or whatever
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1221 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:45:56: <ais523> oh, still works, I need to invent a fresh name for the lambda that's put around g
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1222 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:01: <ais523> in your terminology
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1223 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:15: <ais523> so I get f(\x1.\x2.x1;x1); f(\x1.\x2.x1||x2); f(\j.g)
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1224 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:46:35: <ais523> nah, it goes from one language to a slightly different one
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1225 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:04: <ais523> elliott: anyway, the \j.g /goes through to the final hardware/
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1226 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:10: <ais523> you can identify the individual wires that make up j
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1227 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:16: <ais523> and they need names
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1228 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:38: <ais523> well, they need names in the VHDL code
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1229 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:47:54: <ais523> VHDL doesn't let you have wires that don't have names
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1230 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:00: <elliott> ais523: that's the backend's problem
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1231 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:08: <ais523> but I wrote the backend too!
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1232 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:22: <ais523> you think I should generate the arbitrary names, which are different from all existing names, in the backend rather than frontend?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1233 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:48:30: <ais523> I don't see how that would modify the problem at all
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1234 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:02: <ais523> but then I wouldn't have them the same in the final VHDL program as the original user's prorgam
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1235 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:03: <ais523> *program
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1236 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:49:16: <ais523> (mangled, there's an s/_/0_0/g and a suffix to preserve case-sensitivity)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1237 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:12: <ais523> elliott: you also have to allow for the problem that such graphs aren't easily represented with ADTs
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1238 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:19: <ais523> and the most common way to do so is /to give the nodes arbitrary names/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1239 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:50:23: <ais523> so you're not even gaining anything
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1240 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:51:19: <ais523> I must stop asking you for advice :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1241 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:51:25: <ais523> how's your own Verity compiler/interp getting on?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1242 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:52:00: <ais523> ouch, that seems /really/ out of character for you
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1243 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:52:25: <ais523> either way
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1244 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:53:53: <ais523> problems with school, or something like that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1245 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:30: <ais523> not even a Verity compiler? ;)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1246 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:42: <ais523> I thought you wanted to write one with a less insane license
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1247 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:54:51: <ais523> and you presumably wouldn't be targeting hardware, so no need for SCC transforms, etc
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1248 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:23: <ais523> yes; also, we've already settled on such a list, haven't we?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1249 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:32: <ais523> BF, Befunge, INTERCAL, Unlambda, Underload
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1250 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:55:35: <ais523> did I miss one?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1251 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:08: <ais523> well, hm
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1252 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:18: <ais523> we'd really want to show off all corners of esolang design
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1253 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:29: <ais523> there are some missing genres there, e.g. we'd want a thematic language
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1254 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:31: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: good point
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1255 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:34: <ais523> preferably a /good/ one
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1256 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:56:43: <ais523> Shakespeare or Chef or Haifu or something like that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1257 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:15: <ais523> Befunge is not a language that takes well to derivatices
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1258 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:18: <ais523> *derivatives
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1259 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:22: <ais523> should be an OISC there, indeed
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1260 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:58:54: <ais523> also, there's a corner of esolangs with several examples that I don't think has a name, but it stores all its data in a queue or stack or something like that, and is reasonably imperative
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1261 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:04: <ais523> elliott: Fractran?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1262 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:30: <elliott> <ais523> also, there's a corner of esolangs with several examples that I don't think has a name, but it stores all its data in a queue or stack or something like that, and is reasonably imperative
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1263 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:35: <ais523> no, but there was an equivalent language that was
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1264 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:44: <ais523> elliott: FALSE is a little atypical of it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1265 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:00:59:53: <ais523> I was thinking more along the lines of Sceql
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1266 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:09: <ais523> (FALSE is in there, but is an outlier)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1267 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:22: <ais523> I thought so, but now I'm having problems thinking of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1268 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:24: <ais523> to the wiki!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1269 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:00:52: <ais523> probably half of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Stack-based
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1270 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:01:25: <ais523> Piet counts
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1271 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:01:39: <ais523> it uses an unusual source code form, but computationally it's just like that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1272 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:02:10: <ais523> elliott: I know, it was a timing coincidence
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1273 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:02:15: <ais523> I didn't see his comment while I was writing mine
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1274 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:03:06: <elliott> ais523: oh, that's amazing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1275 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:11:22: <ais523> hey, remember that one-dimensional MMO we were discussing ages ago?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1276 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:11:26: <ais523> `pastlog one-dimensional MMO
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1277 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:27:48: <elliott> ais523: goooon
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1278 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:15: <ais523> elliott: I can't remember many of the details either
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1279 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:17: <ais523> that's why I asked
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1280 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:28: <ais523> I remember that it was going to give some kind of main advantage for being online constantly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1281 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:28:50: <ais523> some mechanic involving swapping with someone, and you could cancel a swap that someone was trying to do to you manually within 5 minutes or so
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1282 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:48:21: <augur> ais523: ty
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1283 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:53:28: <augur> ais523: thank you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1284 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:28: <ais523> augur: thanks for thanking me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1285 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:47: <elliott> ais523: thanks
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1286 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:58:55: <augur> ais523: for your comment on the typo on reddit
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1287 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:30: <ais523> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1288 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:40: <ais523> that was your program? I don't have everyone here's reddit usernames memorized
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1289 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:01:59:47: <ais523> elliott: you're welcome
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1290 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:10: <ais523> come to think of it, I'm not sure if a recursive function with no recursive call is even legal in Verity
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1291 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:11: <ais523> let me check
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1292 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:12: <augur> ais523: indeed. me = psygnisfive
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1293 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:49: <ais523> $ ./gosc -S /tmp/t.ia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1294 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:51: <ais523> /tmp/t.ia: recursion in input program cannot be converted: recursive argument f not used in fix(\f.c_skip$0) [line 1 character 0 - line 1 character 11]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1295 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:00:58: <ais523> indeed it isn't
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1296 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:02:52: <elliott> ais523: thanks
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1297 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:03:34: <ais523> sadly, the error message for something like "fix \f.\x.{f(f(x))}" is much worse, as the compiler can't figure out exactly where the error happens, just that it happens
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1298 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:03:52: <ais523> (I must write an article about Verity programming some day; the semantics are almost eso in some places, e.g. that line isn't obviously wrong)
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1299 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:07: <elliott> ais523: link to verity's site?
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1300 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:26: <ais523> http://www.veritygos.org/
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1301 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:32: <ais523> which in Firefox, at least to me, is an infinite redirect loop
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1302 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:53: <ais523> also Epiphany, so it's not a result of refusing cookies
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1303 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:04:55: <ais523> wow, that's impressive
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1304 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:05:25: <ais523> the old name, https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/ is still working
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1305 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:05:51: <elliott> ais523: have you tried to convince the lawyers to let you license it under something more reasonable any more?
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1306 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:08: <ais523> <ais523 to website owner> That link is currently a redirect to itself.
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1307 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:19: <ais523> nah, because my boss agrees with them, and he's not worth arguing with
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1308 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:27: <ais523> besides the license is reasonable, for what it's intended for
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1309 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:53: <ais523> hmm, it makes quite a statement
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1310 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:06:57: <ais523> it's like the website version of a fixed point
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1311 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:39: <elliott> ais523: you said verity's syntax is documented; where is that?
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1312 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:47: <ais523> in a file grammar.txt inside the documentation
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1313 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:08:51: <ais523> and permissive, it's all in the EULA
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1314 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:09:36: <ais523> "(e) Directory Examples can be used, copied, reproduced and distributed without restriction."
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1315 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:10:09: <ais523> hmm, they forgot "modified"
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1316 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:10:24: <ais523> perhaps
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1317 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:23: <ais523> $ find lib -name '*.vhd' | wc -l \ 5 \ $ find lib -name '*.v' | wc -l \ 2 \ $ find include -name '*.ia' | wc -l \ 4
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1318 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:31: <ais523> depends on your definition
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1319 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:39: <ais523> we're planning to write more
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1320 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:12:51: <ais523> and maybe support .ml libraries for the interpreter
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1321 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:08: <ais523> thing that annoys me; OCaml's compiler is not available via the OCaml libraries
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1322 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:17: <ais523> it's written in OCaml, there's no reason it /shouldn't/ be
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1323 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:46: <ais523> you can't convince me not to do my job :)
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1324 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:13:53: <ais523> however, I'm not sure how many more or less my job will require me to write
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1325 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:16: <ais523> however however, some of them are platform-specific to platforms you probably don't own, and some are very simple
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1326 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:44: <ais523> one thing not described in the distribution is the VHDL/Verilog API, which is important for writing libraries in languages other than Verity
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1327 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:52: <ais523> it is described in our papers, though
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1328 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:14:59: <ais523> apart from the naming schemes
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1329 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:15:10: <ais523> "sharing" = what, in this context?
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1330 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:15:54: <ais523> yep, let f = \x.x;x in new x:=2 in f(x := !x + 1); print(x)
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1331 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:16:16: <ais523> (whitespace is irrelevant except for separating alphanumeric tokens, as you probably guessed already)
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1332 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:16:58: <ais523> err, huh
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1333 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:01: <ais523> the license defines Documentation
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1334 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:06: <ais523> and then there are no license terms relating to it
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1335 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:25: <ais523> I believe that means that its license is all rights reserved, by default
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1336 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:17:29: <ais523> but I'm not a lawyer so don't know for certain
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1337 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:18:30: <ais523> elliott: if you read the grammar off a website, would that be unacceptable?
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1338 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:18:51: <ais523> note that (despite what Oracle are claiming in court), implementing an API is not a derivative work of that API
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1339 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:31: <ais523> "By installing, downloading, and/or using the Software, You agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement."
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1340 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:43: <ais523> ah, hmm, Software apparently includes Documentation
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1341 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:19:56: <ais523> who comes up with these definitions?
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1342 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:20:38: <ais523> ah, OK, the license terms apply to the Software as a whole, including the documentation
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1343 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:20:56: <ais523> elliott: perhaps I can persuade them to put the grammar on the website, then
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1344 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:16: <ais523> hahaha
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1345 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:23: <ais523> they didn't put the quick-start guide behind a EULA
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1346 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:21:56: <ais523> (it's behind a download link, though, for reasons I don't understand; but it's a Markdown file with a .txt extension, because I passed it off to them as plain text)
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1347 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:17: <ais523> hmm
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1348 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:25: <ais523> operator precedence is a pain to describe over IRC
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1349 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:36: <ais523> due to notation that would simplify describing it being used in the language itself
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1350 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:46: <ais523> maybe I'll just explain in operator precedence order
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1351 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:23:53: <ais523> starting at the loosest
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1352 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:05: <ais523> so, loosest is lambda (\a.b), scoped binding (let a = b in c, which is sugar for (\a.c)(b)), fixedpoint (fix \a.b); fixedpoint has the same semantics as fix in haskell, except it must take a literal lambda as its argument
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1353 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:22: <ais523> and although those are all equal, I don't think there's any possible circumstance in which it would matter anyway
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1354 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:36: <ais523> next is pair formation (a,b)
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1355 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:25:43: <ais523> not by me!
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1356 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:05: <ais523> tswett: seems pretty categorical to me
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1357 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:37: <ais523> after that is the creation of memory cells, "new a in b", which causes a to be a memory location throughout b (and then cease to exist again)
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1358 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:26:54: <ais523> oh, it's an identifier
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1359 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:00: <ais523> that's array creation
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1360 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:11: <ais523> which is something else that we haven't added to our grammar documentation
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1361 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:28: <ais523> and specifically, serial array creation (an array where you can only access one element at a time)
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1362 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:37: <ais523> btw, whether things can happen simultaneously or not is critical to understanding Verity
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1363 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:27:53: <ais523> that's the only sort of array we've implemented so far
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1364 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:09: <ais523> we're planning parallel arrays too, with syntax probably a[128], which would be sugar for defining 128 different variables
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1365 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:18: <ais523> no, unless you plan to reject incorrect programs
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1366 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:32: <ais523> the interpreter works by passing the code through the compiler's type-checker, then throwing away the output ;)
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1367 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:28:50: <ais523> (except for inferring things like bitwidths)
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1368 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:29:38: <ais523> OK, after that, is a || b, which is parallel composition; a and b must be allowed to be executed simultaneously, obviously
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1369 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:29:51: <ais523> then a;b, sequential composition (i.e. "do a then b")
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1370 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:00: <ais523> both || and ; take two commands as arguments and return a command
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1371 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:12: <ais523> (and a command is a 0-bit integer with possible side effects)
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1372 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:30: <ais523> then come the control structures: "while a do b" and "if a then b else c"
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1373 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:30:57: <ais523> the first argument is a 1-bit integer; while takes a command as its loop body, if allows any base type in the then and else fields
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1374 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:03: <ais523> well, it's meant to be practical
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1375 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:10: <ais523> and they are, but there's syntax for them
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1376 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:31:15: <ais523> to stop people having to write whiledo(a)(b)
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1377 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:07: <ais523> it actually gets desugared into an ffi call internally, (c_while:(exp$1*com)->com) a b
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1378 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:19: <ais523> and the actual implementation of while is done by the FFI
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1379 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:30: <ais523> then is assignment, a := b
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1380 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:42: <ais523> that's really really tightly binding
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1381 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:32:56: <ais523> and part of the identifier syntax, at that
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1382 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:33:52: <ais523> after that comes arithmetic primitives, | ^ (left-associative), &, == (non-associative), < > (non-associative), << >> +>> (left-associative), + - (left-associative), *
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1383 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:08: <ais523> all have the same meaning as in C, except that >> is unsigned rightshift and +>> is signed rightshift
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1384 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:34: <ais523> (i.e. >> fills the left-over bit with 0, +>> fills it with the sign bit of the original number, like >>> and >> in Java)
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1385 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:34:54: <ais523> there's also a +< and +> for signed comparisons, which aren't in this grammar file for some reason; < and > are unsigned
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1386 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:10: <ais523> after that is ~, unary bit-complement (the same as in C)
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1387 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:13: <elliott> ais523: you know, Haskell solved this operator syntax problem excellently.
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1388 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:35:15: <ais523> after that is !, variable dereference
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1389 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:01: <elliott> monqy: better than ais523 solved it
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1390 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:18: <ais523> then is function call, "a(b)" (can also be written as "a b" if b is sufficiently simple; IIRC it must be a constant or identifier, possibly with a cast)
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1391 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:36:54: <ais523> then tightest of all is bitwidth conversion, a$$n where n is a literal integer, which discards high bits or zero-extends
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1392 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:02: <ais523> (and likewise, a+$$n discards high bits or sign-extends)
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1393 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:12: <ais523> you can also put various type assertions on things
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1394 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:36: <ais523> examples would be :com, :exp$5, :(com -> com)
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1395 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:49: <ais523> single-dollar is a bitwidth assertion, which can be used on types or numerical constants
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1396 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:37:54: <ais523> so 0$8 means an eight-bit zero
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1397 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:00: <ais523> and exp$5 a five-bit integer
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1398 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:04: <ais523> exp$0 is equivalent to com
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1399 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:23: <ais523> and 0$0 can also be written as "skip"
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1400 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:39: <ais523> unary minus always requires parens, incidentally
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1401 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:38:45: <ais523> to distinguish between a-1 and a(-1)
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1402 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:06: <ais523> anyway, that's about it, syntactically
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1403 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:14: <ais523> there's also a lambda that works on tuples, \(a,b).x
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1404 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:39:52: <ais523> and the difference between \a.\b.x and \(a,b).x is that the second asserts that a and b can be used simultaneously, the first asserts that they can't be
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1405 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:17: <ais523> well, there are three different type systems…
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1406 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:35: <ais523> programs are written in ICA, but must be valid in SCC
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1407 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:46: <ais523> and then that's converted to SCI for use in hardware
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1408 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:40:59: <ais523> I could try to describe them over IRC, or just link you to the papers defining them
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1409 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:42:17: <ais523> here, http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~drg/papers/popl11.pdf
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1410 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:42:37: <ais523> that describes not only all the type systems used, but all the algorithms we use to convert between them
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1411 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:14: <ais523> oh, and it describes the resulting circuitry too
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1412 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:23: <ais523> except in the case of recursion, which we hadn't worked out at the time that paper was written
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1413 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:51: <ais523> well, then you wouldn't be rejecting invalid programs, but it'd still work fine on the valid ones, mostly
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1414 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:43:54: <ais523> except for bitwidth inference
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1415 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:44:39: <elliott> monqy: ais523&co.'s impure, call-by-name higher-order functional language
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1416 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:44:54: <ais523> for instance, print(~4) implies that the 4 is a 32-bit 4, at least if you do an "import <print>"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1417 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:45:10: <ais523> because print.vhd defines print as being of type exp$32->com
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1418 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:45:25: <ais523> and of course the bitwidth of the 4 will affect what its complement is
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1419 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:41: * elliott wonders if ais523 has monqy on ignore or something
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1420 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:47: <ais523> I don't
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1421 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:52: <ais523> just you answered faster than I did
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1422 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:46:59: <ais523> monqy: I wanted to call it ALGOL-11
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1423 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:02: <ais523> but they wouldn't let me
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1424 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:16: <ais523> well, ALGOL-12 by now I guess, but 11 sounds nicer
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1425 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:47:56: <elliott> ais523: he asked earlier, too
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1426 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:23: <ais523> it is very much an Algol dialect, though, semantically
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1427 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:34: <ais523> and the syntax is different but based off similar principles
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1428 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:48:52: <ais523> elliott: oh, there's also {} in the syntax, which is sugar for ():com
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1429 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:07: <ais523> so you can write while 1 do {command; another_command}
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1430 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:31: <ais523> the type system also has var, but it's sugar for something
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1431 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:49:56: <ais523> ah, var$n = (exp$n*(exp$n->com))
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1432 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:25: <ais523> which means that I guess ! and := could be implemented in pure Verity, if I were so inclined
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1433 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:29: <ais523> but there's no way to define operators yet
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1434 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:53: <ais523> oh, and the other thing that it's easy to miss is that division doesn't exist
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1435 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:50:56: <ais523> we might add a library for div and mod
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1436 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:00: <elliott> <ais523> but there's no way to define operators yet
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1437 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:01: <elliott> <elliott> ais523: you know, Haskell solved this operator syntax problem excellently.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1438 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:38: <ais523> just by interpreting any random string of characters it doesn't understand as an operator
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1439 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:48: <ais523> but that's actually more complex than what we're doing at the moment
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1440 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:51:56: <ais523> *string of punctuation marks
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1441 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:52:47: <ais523> because you'd need to get the parser to parse prio operatives (or whatever you call them, but it's called prio in algol 68) and then change the way it parsed from then on accordingly
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1442 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:52:52: <ais523> I thought you didn't like state?
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1443 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:53:00: <ais523> (^ both nonsequitur and strawman)
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1444 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:53:53: <elliott> ais523: how many 1-pass compilers are there?
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1445 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:56:45: <ais523> elliott: it's very hard to convince people to use a language where a+b*c doesn't do what they expect
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1446 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:02: <ais523> "looking vaguely familiar" was the main criterion we used to design Verity's syntax
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1447 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:19: <ais523> I added {} for ():com simply because I wanted to use them for while statements
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1448 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:57:32: <ais523> because it looked weird with ()
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1449 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:05: * elliott isn't sure "convincing people to use Verity" is a real problem ais523 faces :P
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1450 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:20: <ais523> I don't face it /personally/
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1451 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:02:58:31: <ais523> but I was asked to help the people/person out whose job it was
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1452 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:02:32: <elliott> ais523: anyway, why does the language need a built-in notion of bitwidths?
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1453 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:02:47: <ais523> concession to hardware, where everything needs a set bitwidth
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1454 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:03:17: <ais523> "4-bit integer" and "1024-bit integer" are completely different types, the type system should reflect that
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1455 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:03:33: <elliott> ais523: #
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1456 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:33: <ais523> elliott: because it's an operation that people will want to do a lot? and because it makes sense to be able to access the bits of an integer in parallel with each other?
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1457 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:54: <ais523> (exp$1 * exp$1) is not the same type as (exp$2) in terms of the operations you can do o nit
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1458 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:04:55: <ais523> *on it
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1459 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:05:07: <ais523> as the first is a promise that you won't access the two bits simultaneously
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1460 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:05:14: <elliott> ais523: people want to do lots of operations a lot, that doesn't mean they have to be axiomatic!
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1461 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:18: <ais523> not really, that'd complicate the type system considerably for no real gain
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1462 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:39: <ais523> tupling is serial, currying is parallel, is the whole heart of the language
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1463 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:06:50: <ais523> (c_seq:com*com->com) (c_par:com->com->com)
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1464 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:07:08: <ais523> elliott: well, you'd need to add empty tuples as well, or else make com a separate type from exp$0
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1465 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:07:48: <ais523> elliott: also, you'd need a sufficiently smart compiler to even produce remotely efficient hardware
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1466 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:11: <ais523> because it's possible to force individual parts of a tuple
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1467 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:18: <ais523> and the hardware would need to reflect that
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1468 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:08:34: <ais523> imagine a program like (\(a,b).a)(print(4),print(5))
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1469 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:00: <ais523> or (\(a&b).a)(print(4)&print(5)) with & as parallel tuple rather than bitwise &
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1470 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:07: <ais523> and I didn't overload syntax, did I?
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1471 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:10: <ais523> at least, what do you think I overloaded
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1472 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:13: <ais523> yes, bitwise XOR
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1473 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:22: <ais523> (a,b) means a tuple b
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1474 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:25: <ais523> nope, @ isn't used
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1475 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:46: <ais523> com
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1476 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:09:56: <ais523> print itself has type exp$32->com
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1477 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:11: <ais523> because some definite value needs to be picked for separate compilation, and 32 is nicely sized for most applications of print
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1478 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:16: <ais523> yep
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1479 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:34: <ais523> now, (exp@exp@…) would allow you to force individual bits independently
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1480 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:10:44: <ais523> and have different side effects on different bits
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1481 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:03: <ais523> which would mean 32 potential entry points
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1482 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:16: <ais523> which would be rather nastily inefficient for hardware that's O(number of entry points)
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1483 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:11:52: <ais523> elliott: OK, so you have a parallel tuple that forces you to force every element at once?
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1484 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:11: <ais523> hmm, this concept actually exists in call-by-push-value, it has two types of tuples for this reason
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1485 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:17: <elliott> ais523: Isn't exp$32 a parallel 32-tuple that forces you to force every element at once?
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1486 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:12:47: <ais523> elliott: well, no, it's not implemented like that, but it is equivalent to that
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1487 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:08: <ais523> elliott: anyway, this type system doesn't even make sense now, what's ((com*com)@com) meant to mean?
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1488 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:12: <ais523> (com*com) has two entry points
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1489 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:25: <ais523> so which of them gets forced when you force the whole thing?
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1490 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:13:52: <ais523> this isn't even my language any more, it's basic call-by-name semantics
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1491 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:14:48: <ais523> elliott: oh, in Verity, you force individual tuple elements, forcing the whole tuple isn't something that makes sense
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1492 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:14:58: <ais523> and likewise, it's impossible to sequence a tuple with something, seq only works on base types
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1493 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:16: <ais523> elliott: it's that way in all the literature for Algol-like languages
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1494 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:47: <elliott> ais523: well, that means you identify _|_ and (_|_,_|_), right?
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1495 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:15:50: <ais523> elliott: think of com as being like a monad action, if it helps; that's one valid way to implement it
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1496 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:22: <ais523> elliott: (_|_, _|_) would be a reasonable way to define _|_ at a product type, yes
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1497 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:50: <elliott> ais523: then, I don't see what's wrong with forcing both sides of it
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1498 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:16:59: <ais523> because (_|_, 0) is also a legal value
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1499 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:17:05: <elliott> ais523: that's fine
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1500 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:17:39: <ais523> it is impossible to define (,) in Verity, except in terms of itself
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1501 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:18:18: <ais523> elliott: so which /order/ does it force the two sides of (print 0, print 1)@skip?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1502 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:18:42: <ais523> it can't force them simultaneously, , introduces a serial tuple
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1503 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:19:17: <elliott> ais523: left first, why not
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1504 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:19:48: <ais523> I fail to see how this type system is less complicated than the one with a primitive fixed-width integer type :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1505 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:20:16: <ais523> oh, the other reason things like + are primitive in Verity, is that you can't define polymorphic functions
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1506 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:01: <ais523> from a semantic level, if you write print(3+4), the compiler will generate a 32-bit + for you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1507 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:04: <ais523> and use that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1508 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:17: <ais523> to prevent a huge amount of duplication, it uses generics in the generated VHDL
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1509 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:21:57: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1510 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:22:02: <ais523> it is, in the FFI
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1511 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:22:14: <ais523> but + gets desugared into an FFI call
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1512 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:12: <ais523> I agree that proper C++-style templates would make a reasonable addition to the language, though; they're mentioned in one of our papers
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1513 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:20: <ais523> well, not /that/ C++-style, that would be insane by definition
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1514 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:23:23: <ais523> but the basic idea
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1515 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:24:42: <ais523> polymorphism only over bitwidths would be so much easier
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1516 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:24:57: <ais523> mostly because VHDL doesn't support polymorphism except for array bounds
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1517 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:25:33: <ais523> although, it'd be nice if a parallel array was just a template that took a compile-time param and returned a variable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1518 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:25:45: <ais523> now I'm seriously thinking about this
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1519 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:26:39: <ais523> you can't even write recursive data structures
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1520 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:26:55: <ais523> except by rolling your own malloc-alike, or by implementing them as functions (which is very inefficient for most practical uses)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1521 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:02: <ais523> oh, you saw that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1522 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:13: <ais523> that's done with a roll-your-own-malloc, and not a particularly efficient one at that
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1523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:15: <ais523> I didn't write it
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1524 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:22: <ais523> that was my supervisor trying to prove a point
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1525 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:41: <ais523> that hardware recursion was useful, or something
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1526 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:27:45: <ais523> I'm not entirely sure myself
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1527 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:03: <ais523> perhaps
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1528 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:16: <ais523> there are so many restrictions on our hardware fix impl that I'm not at all convinced it's useful
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1529 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:34: <ais523> no parallelism anywhere near it, mostly
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1530 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:29:51: <ais523> also, you can't nest fix inside fix; it's possible to design circuitry so you could, but it'd be much less efficient so we don't
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1531 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:30:14: <ais523> (fix \f.\x.(f(x)||skip) cannot be implemented in hardware with the techniques we're using)
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1532 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:30:44: <ais523> and it's a semantic restriction; it's implementing syntactically into the compiler because I couldn't figure out how it worked in the type system and how to modify the compiler accordingly
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1533 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:13: <ais523> well, we've already achieved more with it than anyone else has before
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1534 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:16: <ais523> apart from pipelining
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1535 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:20: <ais523> but I'm working on that atm
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1536 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:31:46: <ais523> "the catch"? in what?
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1537 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:25: <ais523> there's a limited recursion value, because you run out of memory for a stack after a while
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1538 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:44: <ais523> although instead of having a global stack, which has terrible performance by hardware standards, we have a different stack for each variable in the program
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1539 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:32:56: <ais523> i.e. new allocates stacks rather than individual memory cells
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1540 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:27: <ais523> it's done by getting all the state in the program to refer to a different location depending on the recursion depth
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1541 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:32: <ais523> including state in control
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1542 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:33:50: <ais523> (i.e. remembering which branch of the ; you're in in \x.x;x)
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1543 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:34:58: <ais523> λq.(λg.g(λx.g(qx)))(λb.(λk.((k(λu.u))(λl.((kb)(λt.(l(t skip)))))))(λv.λw.wv))
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1544 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:35:11: <ais523> took me so long to work out that expression :)
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1545 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:35:42: <ais523> it's of type (com^m -> com^n -> com)^(n^2) -> com, m <= 1
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1546 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:03: <ais523> the issue was finding an expression that had a side-condition like that
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1547 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:13: <ais523> that's SCC type
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1548 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:33: <ais523> it was hard enough proving that the type system was even decidable in the absence of polymorphism
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1549 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:42: <ais523> it is, but it's nontrivial enough to see that that we got a paper out of it
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1550 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:36:47: <ais523> together with the type system transformations
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1551 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:35: <ais523> this is arguably a deficiency of the type system, due to using (\v.\w.wv) in two unrelated contexts that just happen to have similar types
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1552 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:46: <ais523> I'm not convinced that ML lets you do that either, though
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1553 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:37:52: <ais523> (Anarchy would!)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1554 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:29: <ais523> it's just you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1555 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:38: <ais523> its semantics are almost identical to algol 60's
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1556 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:40:52: <ais523> allowing for the difference in syntax
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1557 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:41:03: <ais523> which isn't even that different; they both work on the same principle, just use different names for things
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1558 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:41:57: <ais523> oh, and algol 60 doesn't have ||
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1559 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:02: <ais523> the file extension should really be .ica rather than .ia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1560 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:12: <ais523> but what happened was that I was using .ica and my supervisor was using .ia
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1561 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:20: <ais523> and we had to standardise on one eventually
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1562 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:22: <ais523> besides, .ia looks better
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1563 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:42:44: <ais523> well we can't change it /now/ :P
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1564 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:00: <ais523> that was a crazy idea that my supervisor said
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1565 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:16: <ais523> he was talking to someone else, and they decided it would be worthwhile for the compiler, and might even replace pipelining
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1566 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:20: <ais523> and I had to tell them why they were completely wrong
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1567 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:28: <ais523> they'd basically discovered common subexpression elimination
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1568 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:32: <elliott> ais523: haha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1569 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:44:35: <ais523> and confused it with call-by-need
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1570 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:45:07: <ais523> although, "parallel call-by-need" or whatever it's called could be worthwhile
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1571 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:45:20: <ais523> we discovered that it's possible via a source-level transformation, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1572 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:16: <ais523> basically, whenever you determine the value of a lambda variable in a particular scope, you start specializing everything in that scope that uses the variable, in the background
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1573 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:28: <ais523> and then when it goes out of scope, kill the specializations
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1574 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:40: <ais523> and return to the original
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1575 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:46:59: <ais523> elliott: well, think of it this way: \x.print(x+1);print(x+1)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1576 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:47:25: <ais523> as soon as that's called, x gets a value, x+1 gets specialized in the background (i.e. only executed once), and you end up printing the sum twice while only calculating it once
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1577 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:48:16: <ais523> the similarity with common subexpression elimination comes when you realise that's equivalent to \x.new y := x+1 in print(!y);print(!y), with a backgrounded initialization of y
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1578 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:48:25: <ais523> (important if print takes some time to set up before it asks for !y's value)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1579 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:09: <ais523> anyway, we realised that in the absence of side-effects, background-calculating things didn't actually cost anything at all
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1580 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:38: <ais523> not even in the need to be able to kill the calculation halfway through, because we can use the same circuitry for that as we do for the global reset
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1581 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:49:52: <ais523> (which is necessary so that we don't end up with multiple instruction pointers at power on)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1582 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:06: <ais523> no, but if we do it, it'll be as a source-level translation anyway
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1583 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:17: <ais523> together with extra support for a one-way parallel composition
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1584 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:51:48: <ais523> yes, of course
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1585 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:52:13: <ais523> why do you think that quickstart.txt contains detailed notes on which things to click in Quartus II to get it working properly? or have you not read that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1586 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:53:40: <ais523> someone who's apparently really important came round, and we showed him a recursive memoized Fibonacci that displayed its result in hex on some seven-segment displays
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1587 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:53:44: <ais523> running on an actual FPGA
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1588 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:09: <ais523> I wasn't there at the time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1589 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:12: <ais523> so I don't know
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1590 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:25: <ais523> anyway, the funny thing was that he was giving a seminar, and I was pretty much forced to attend
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1591 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:35: <ais523> but by the time I got there, the whole room was full and there was no room for me, so I didn't
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1592 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:54:42: <ais523> and it seems the same threat had gone out to the whole department
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1593 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:03: <ais523> it's an xor, isn't it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1594 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:13: <elliott> ais523: no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1595 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:23: <elliott> ais523: the idea is that you get to pick whether (P & ~Q) or (~P & Q)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1596 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:42: <ais523> elliott: clearly that requires state :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1597 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:47: <elliott> ais523: well, it's like linear logic, sort of
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1598 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:55:56: <ais523> not really
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1599 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:23: <ais523> p :- \+ q_mem, assertz(p_mem). q :- \+ p_mem, assertz(q_mem).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1600 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:41: <elliott> ais523: heh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1601 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:56:51: <ais523> it's much clearer in Prolog :P
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1602 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:58:42: <ais523> elliott: something like "X=p" and "X=q" in Prolog?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1603 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:58:59: <ais523> either is true, but not if you use them both in the same scope
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1604 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:04: <elliott> ais523: yes, similar
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1605 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:44: <ais523> elliott: (p, q)?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1606 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:47: <ais523> in Verity?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1607 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:03:59:59: <ais523> you can't use p and q at the same time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1608 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:00:13: <ais523> the type system forces it, linear-logic-style
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1609 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:01:54: <ais523> I don't know anything about that syntax for linear logic
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1610 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:02:00: <ais523> other than recognising it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1611 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:03:05: <ais523> "⊗" is typically pronounced as "tensor" regardless of what it actually means
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1612 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:04:37: <ais523> affine type systems, on the other hand, I'm happy with /those/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1613 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:04:48: <ais523> (an affine type system is like a linear one, except it allows you to not use a variable if you don't want to)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1614 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:05:40: <ais523> anyway, -> is affine in SCI and Verity
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1615 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:05:59: <ais523> (and tuple formation is non-affine, which is why it has the restriction that you can only use one side at a time; so that the hardware itself ends up used in an affine way)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1616 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:12:00: <elliott> it sounds like shachaf has an affinity for ais523's type system
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1617 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:12:13: <ais523> don't make this into a pun thread :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1618 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:13:51: <elliott> ais523: come on that one was awful
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1619 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:14:19: <ais523> maybe if I ignore them they'll go away?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1620 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:15:08: <elliott> ais523: careful, if you start ignoring everyone you might incur some unwanted affines you have to pay
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1621 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:33: <ais523> shachaf: just use a stride?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1622 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:45: <ais523> have a pointer and add the width of a row to it each time round the loop
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1623 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:17:55: <ais523> probably not cache-efficient, but I don't think there is a cache-efficient way to do that
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1624 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:14: <shachaf> ais523: Right, I was looking for something more cache-efficient. :-)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1625 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:30: <ais523> but how can there be one? the stuff you're looking for is not together in memory
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1626 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:39: <ais523> I guess you could use a GPU, where you manage the caches yourself?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1627 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:18:43: <shachaf> ais523: I know. :-(
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1628 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:09: <ais523> so that you only incure the cache-inefficiency penalty once?
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1629 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:24: <ais523> elliott: interleaving is nearly always a bad idea cache-wise
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1630 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:30: <ais523> no matter what you're interleaving or why
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1631 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:51: <elliott> ais523: OK, /fine/, buy two-dimensional memory and store the row-major stuff /behind/ the column-major stuff
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1632 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:19:53: <ais523> unless, on a CPU, the values you're interleaving would always be accessed together
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1633 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:20:09: <ais523> dual-layer memory? like a DVD?
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1634 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:21:29: <ais523> shachaf: I gave a lecture partly about doing that efficiently
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1635 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:21:44: <ais523> because the person who was meant to give it booked a plane in the morning rather than the afternoon
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1636 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:22:02: <ais523> (because he'd tried to book one in the afternoon, been offered one in the morning instead, and didn't check to make sure it was at the time he requested)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1637 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:23:17: <ais523> the funny thing is, that over half the matrix transpose stuff had been made moot since the year before
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1638 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:23:23: <ais523> because GPUs had got better at accessing device memory
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1639 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:04:32:07: <elliott> ais523: "We have to write out binary data, so we use the writeFile defined in Data.ByteString.Char8, which operates on ByteStrings. This is why we need to convert our String to a ByteString first using B.pack."
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1640 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:09:02: <ais523> a GPU can transpose matrices at over 60GBps
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1641 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:23:41: <elliott> ais523:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1642 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:23:57: <ais523> not sure
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1643 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:24:01: <ais523> haven't tried
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1644 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:05:24:04: <ais523> but I don't think it's that fast
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1645 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:17:38: <ais523> elliott: I think you can also appeal to arbcom, in the case of new evidence, or simply nobody understanding the previous verdict
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1646 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:18:30: <elliott> ais523: yep, but the higher authority is explicitly jimbo
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1647 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:25:03: <ais523> shachaf: needs more rvalue references
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1648 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:25:07: * ais523 has not looked at the code
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1649 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:29:03: <shachaf> ais523: Would you look at the code if it was C?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1650 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:29:44: <ais523> no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1651 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:00: <ais523> elliott: *(c?a:b) = 0 is valid C
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1652 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:10: <ais523> in C++, you don't need the * if a and b are lvalue references
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1653 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:14: <ais523> elliott: "deek-stra"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1654 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:20: <elliott> ais523: are you sure?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1655 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:25: <ais523> reasonably
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1656 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:33: <ais523> oh, that's the same thing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1657 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:36: <ais523> maybe not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1658 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:30:41: <ais523> perhaps that's right
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1659 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:09: <elliott> <ais523> in C++, you don't need the * if a and b are lvalue references
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1660 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:33: <ais523> seriously?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1661 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:31:37: <ais523> !help languages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1662 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:04: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c=0; (c?a:b)=1; cout >> a >> endl;
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1663 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:19: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c=0; (c?a:b)=1;
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1664 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:24: <ais523> EgoBot: 'twould be nice if you'd tell us /why/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1665 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:29: <ais523> hmm
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1666 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:47: <ais523> hahahaha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1667 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:32:50: <ais523> wtf?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1668 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:20: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; (c?a:b)=1; std::cout << a << std::endl;
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1669 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:35: <ais523> but I retyped that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1670 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:52: <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; std::cout << a << std::endl;
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1671 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:33:58: <elliott> also, why was shachaf's valid but not ais523's?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1672 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:00: <ais523> (retyped again just to make sure)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1673 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:00: <elliott> ais523: you idiot
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1674 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:02: <elliott> <ais523> !cxx int a,b,c = 0; (c?a:b)=1; std::cout << a << std::endl;
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1675 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:22: <ais523> oh, a isn't initialized, and b is getting assigned to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1676 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:44: <ais523> so why is uninitialized memory consistently 32767, I wonder?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1677 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:34:49: <elliott> ais523: UML, presumably
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1678 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:35:08: <elliott> ais523: it's effectively a clean-booted Linux system every command
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1679 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:35:17: <ais523> but why not 0?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1680 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:07: <elliott> ais523: since when is unininitialised memory usually 0?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1681 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:25: <ais523> it's more often 0 than anything else
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1682 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:36:36: <ais523> or some sentinel value (32767 is not a good sentinel value)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1683 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:06:42:24: <elliott> I wonder if ais523 is not saying "jif" so that I keep talking to him.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1684 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:41: <elliott> ais523: Hey, should I sleep?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1685 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:54: <shachaf> <ais523> yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1686 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:01:57: <ais523> at some point
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1687 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:02:04: <ais523> you don't seem as tired as last time you asked that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1688 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:02:20: <ais523> depends on when you want to wake up
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1689 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:12:50: <elliott> Hey ais523, should I sleep?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1690 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:13:14: <ais523> elliott: can you not make your own mind up, this time?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1691 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:13:24: <ais523> also, quotes are {{{ }}}, or you're insufficiently Agoran
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1692 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:38:59: <elliott> ais523: Should I __ __ _____?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1693 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:39:18: <ais523> elliott: you could ask zzo38 to take your horoscope again
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1694 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:39:57: <ais523> you know that infinitely redirecting website? I got a reply back saying it was working yesterday
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1695 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:41:23: <elliott> ais523: problem solved, then
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1696 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:42:09: <ais523> zzo38: I imagine they're the same as last time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1697 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:46:33: <elliott> ais523: USELESS TRIVIUM OF THE DAY: apparently, WMF developers aren't called developers any more
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1698 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:07:46:51: <ais523> heh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1699 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:30: <ais523> augur: "sqort"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1700 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:41: <ais523> your typo fix contains a typo of its own
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1701 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:08:19:51: <augur> ais523: :(
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1702 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:10:16:12: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1703 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:09:23: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1704 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:24:44: <ais523> kmc: is that a statement about in general? or just in Android?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1705 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:28:39: <kmc> ais523, it's true in general that you have few guarantees about wchar_t
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1706 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:11:59:43: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: well, it's like linear logic, sort of
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1707 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:12:05:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1708 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:05:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1709 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:31: <ais523> ooh, Yahoo! Mail's POP thing started working again
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1710 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:35: <ais523> 187 new emails!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1711 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:25:46: <pikhq_> ais523: ... You still have Yahoo! Mail?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1712 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:00: <ais523> pikhq_: "still"? I joined it relatively recently
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1713 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:22: <ais523> oerjan: actually, few are, I don't receive much spam on that account
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1714 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:25: <pikhq_> I see ais523 is computing like it's 1998.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1715 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:29: <ais523> and the spam filter has more false-positives than true positives
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1716 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:26:42: <ais523> pikhq_: I distrust them the least out of the three major webmail providers
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1717 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:28:08: <ais523> pikhq_: indeed, and I don't use it for long-term storage of anything
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1718 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:28:09: <ais523> just as a spool
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1719 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:30:12: <ais523> isn't the /main/ purpose of monad tutorials to annoy elliott?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1720 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-14.txt:23:30:44: <oerjan> ais523: shhh, that's secret!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1721 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:13:42: <ais523> I'm not convinced the patent on tapping is enforceable anyway
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1722 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:13:45: <ais523> kmc: in the US, yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1723 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:03:14:00: <ais523> but the fact that it exists is sufficient to let their lawyers scare people
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1724 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:18:26: <ais523> since when do we get spambots in /here/?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1725 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:34:07: <Sgeo> ais523, I've been here for a while. I'm basically a spambot for PSOX.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1726 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:35:02: <ais523> I thought we mocked that out of you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1727 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:39:02: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1728 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:07:53:36: <fizzie> @tell ais523 Maybe the spammers have been discouraged by problems with spamming the new wiki, and have decided to bring it here instead.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1729 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:12:13: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1730 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:48: <ais523> zzo38: what computational class is bLOOP? Do you know?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1731 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:48: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1732 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:28:52: <ais523> @messages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1733 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:23: <zzo38> ais523: If you mean BlooP, then yes I know, but I don't know what it is called.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1734 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:44: <ais523> yes, that's what I meant
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1735 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:46: <ais523> and, ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1736 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:09:30:53: <ais523> I sort-of know what class it is too, but don't know the name either
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1737 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:23:22: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1738 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:33:35: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1739 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:11:55:57: <oerjan> <ais523> zzo38: what computational class is bLOOP? Do you know?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1740 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:04:08: <ais523> unary output is easy :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1741 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:15:24: <ais523> oerjan: hmm, that decimal conversion code looks neater than mine
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1742 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:15:55: <ais523> where's the division by 10 done? I can't even see a constant 10 in there anywhere
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1743 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:17:45: <oerjan> ais523: the deepest (!~:^) for the digit list applies an increment to the higher level digits
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1744 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:21:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1745 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:33:42: <oerjan> as ais523 alluded to, you usually want to do division by 10.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1746 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:45:36: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1747 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:47:45: <oerjan> ais523: see logs
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1748 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:48:06: * ais523 looks
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1749 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:49:18: <ais523> ah, right, it's a decimal increment
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1750 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:51:10: <ais523> 10 is ::*:*:**, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1751 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:52:31: <ais523> err, right, it is
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1752 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:52:51: <ais523> or alternatively :*::*:**
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1753 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:05: <ais523> actually, no, I think your 10 is also a 9
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
1754 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:28: <ais523> ^ul (a)::*:*:**S(b):::**::***S(c):*::*:**S
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1755 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:48: <ais523> OK, both our 10s are correct
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1756 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:53:55: <ais523> oh, yours is 3*3+1
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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1757 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:54:04: <ais523> and mine is 2*(2*2+1)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
1758 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:54:28: <ais523> at least mine's shorter :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1759 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:12:55:20: <ais523> yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1760 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:02:51: <ais523> underload
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1761 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:02:56: <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1762 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-15.txt:13:38:01: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1763 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:02:33:44: <elliott> @ask ais523 is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag#MediaWiki_Interpreter meant to look like that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1764 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:02:34:24: <elliott> @tell ais523 Also, "The above with comments removed for clarity:" I don't think you understand the purpose of comments.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1765 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:33:28: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1766 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:26: <ais523> both!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1767 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:26: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1768 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:09:59:30: <ais523> @messages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1769 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:01:25: <ais523> @tell elliott yes, it is meant to look at that, and the implementation of the interpreter puts junk comments in its output, so removing them does indeed make it clearer
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1770 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:01:32: <ais523> @tell elliott *like
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1771 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:10:59:29: <ais523> "random access ROM"? so it's both ROM and RAM /simultaneously/?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1772 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:00:37: * ais523 notes that RAM is a bit of a weird name for what it's usually used for
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1773 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:04:38: <Madoka-Kaname> ais523, it's ROM that can be randomly accessed.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1774 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:21: <ais523> btw, for fun, I tried reading the EULA of some shovelware games that came with Windows when I bought the computer
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1775 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:28: <ais523> (didn't actually /accept/ it, of course)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1776 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:43: <ais523> among other things, it allowed them to modify it at any time simply by posting that they were doing so on their website
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1777 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:50: <ais523> and disallowed you from uninstalling the software
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1778 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:11:42:59: <ais523> I'd be pretty surprised if it were enforceable…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1779 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:03:53: <ais523> oerjan: they also disallowed you directly or indirectly removing bits of it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1780 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:09:21: <ais523> zzo38: it did, but it wanted you to accept the EULA before doing anything but putting up an EULA acceptance dialog
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1781 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:10:46: <ais523> RocketJSquirrel: re the topic, we really need to start an esolang programmer interviews section
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1782 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:10:55: <ais523> even if they weren't being interviewed about esolangs
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1783 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:13:29: <ais523> also, I'm having problems trying to work out who was trolling in that interview
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1784 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:13:31: <ais523> possibly both of you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1785 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:16:55: <ais523> `pastlog <oerjan>.*\?$
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1786 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:17:34: <ais523> `pastlog <oerjan>.*\?$
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1787 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:12:18:04: <ais523> that was 2009
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1788 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:13:55:37: <ais523> do you have zlib installed?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1789 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:13:55:50: <ais523> and if so, is it looking at the right headers to find it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1790 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:14:51:18: <RocketJSquirrel> <ais523> also, I'm having problems trying to work out who was trolling in that interview // I believe the only valid answer is "both of us"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1791 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:14:51:39: <ais523> I think so, indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1792 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:30:29: <RocketJSquirrel> ais523: Also, are you volunteering to be interviewer? X-D
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1793 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:30:51: <ais523> I'm not sure, but probably not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1794 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:16:31:10: <ais523> I was more referencing that Keymaker and I had been interviewed too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1795 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:10:37: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: isn't the whole /point/ that he's white and English and tries to emphasise that he isn't at every opportunity?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1796 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:12:56: <ais523> that's the main defining feature of his comedy
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1797 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:31:09: <Vorpal> (I guess I should highlight ais523 for that question)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1798 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:31:59: <ais523> Vorpal: there have been debates over the definition
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1799 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:32:15: <ais523> there's a definition that people came up with at a roguelike conference, but it's generally considered imperfect
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1800 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:33:02: <Vorpal> ais523, got a link or anything useful for googling that?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1801 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:33:52: <ais523> http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/Berlin_Interpretation
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1802 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:35:46: <Vorpal> ais523, hm do you know any game you would consider rogue like that isn't turn based?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1803 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:12: <ais523> Spelunky?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1804 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:19: <ais523> I've often wished it were turn-based, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1805 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:26: <ais523> which is surprising given that it's a platformer
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1806 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:36:39: <ais523> as well as a roguelike
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1807 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:37:08: <ais523> everything pauses when you're not moving
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1808 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:37:18: <ais523> like world 4 of Braid
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1809 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:13: <ais523> Vorpal: you might also be interested in http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=What_a_roguelike_is
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1810 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:26: <ais523> and ADOM is a really quest-heavy roguelike
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1811 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:57:58: <ais523> ADOM is somewhat spoiler-heavy
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1812 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:04: <ais523> also, closed-source
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1813 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:35: <Vorpal> ais523, anyway a rogue like definitely doesn't need ASCII graphics.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1814 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:40: <ais523> indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1815 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:46: <ais523> it doesn't need any single one of the factors
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1816 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:58:57: <ais523> oh, /that/ needs ASCII graphics ;)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1817 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:17:59:02: <ais523> (or at least, a better camera angle)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1818 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:00:51: <Vorpal> ais523, I can't think of a rogue like without at least an option for permadeath though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1819 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:01:43: <ais523> choose your own adventure books are typically second person
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1820 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:07:55: <ais523> Vorpal: Spelunky doesn't have hunger, but sometimes an area you thought was safe isn't (slow-moving monster catches up to you, etc)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1821 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:18:08:03: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1822 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:22:05: <elliott> 16:30:51: <ais523> I'm not sure, but probably not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1823 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:22:05: <elliott> 16:31:10: <ais523> I was more referencing that Keymaker and I had been interviewed too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1824 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-16.txt:20:23:54: <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-Keymaker.aspx http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-ais523.aspx
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1825 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:19:34:54: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1826 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:19:41:23: <ais523> hi
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1827 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:52:09: <ais523> ooh, reading the diff algo you linked me to here, and I think I see where this is going
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1828 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:52:32: <ais523> previous algorithm's equivalent to Dijkstra's in state space, and it's doing A* or an equivalent instead
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1829 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:53:33: <ais523> huh, the example code is in Pascal
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1830 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:53:45: <ais523> with operators replaced with mathematical notation, the same way papers sometimes do for Haskell
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1831 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:21:56:17: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: please tell me that program has a filename clash with the game Pacman ;)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1832 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:22:25:42: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1833 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-17.txt:22:42:23: <zzo38> ais523: WEB replaces some Pascal operators with mathematical notations, but it also includes support for named chunks, pool strings, and octal and hexadecimal constants.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1834 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:15:14:23: <nortti> it has been deleted by ais523. Does anyone know what it contained?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1835 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:18:52:34: <elliott> @ask ais523 Is there any reason not to enable moves for unregistered users on the wiki?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1836 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:24:52: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1837 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:25:02: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1838 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:51: <ais523> hi elliott
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1839 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:51: <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1840 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:28:55: <ais523> @messages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1841 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:34: <ais523> elliott: it depends on if you expect we'll get vandals; moves can't be fully reversed by a non-admin, so the reason they're usually disallowed is to prevent vandalism that's disproportionately hard to revert
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1842 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:39: <elliott> ais523: (context: the Basic Input/Output Commander did a copy-paste-move to a new name, and I had to learn how to do a history merge)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1843 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:29:40: <ais523> if you don't expect anyone to try that, no reason not to
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1844 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:37: <ais523> the method used to be to delete the new name, rename the old name to the new name, undelete the new name, revert to the revision that's meant to be top
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1845 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:45: <ais523> elliott: hahaha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1846 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:30:47: <elliott> ais523: that still is the method
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1847 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:02: <ais523> `addquote <elliott> then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1848 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:09: <ais523> elliott: well, you've been able to combine the rename and delete for ages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1849 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:28: <ais523> and around when I left Wikipedia there were rumours that the devs were writing a less awkward way to histmerge and histsplit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1850 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:31: <ais523> looks like that fell through
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1851 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:33: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1852 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:34: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1853 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:34: <elliott> ais523: (their edits were limited to changing the language to the new name, but since they admitted the language changed quite a bit since renaming, it's ridiculous)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1854 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:36: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1855 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:37: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1856 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:31:39: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1857 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:08: <ais523> hmm, I don't get 27
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1858 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:18: <ais523> the fungot quote is yet again good
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1859 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:19: <fungot> ais523: syntax-rules is fairly easy
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1860 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:21: <ais523> and I got 5
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1861 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:27: <oerjan> ais523: it's part of a series
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1862 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:28: <ais523> and I got 5615, 276, 579, 120, 27
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1863 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:40: <ais523> oerjan: indeed, but it isn't a /good/ series
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1864 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:32:54: <elliott> ais523: see 14, 15, 20-27
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1865 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:33:51: <ais523> 276 seems out of place because RocketJSquirrel /isn't/ blond, IIRC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1866 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:33:55: <ais523> unless it's a weird definition of blond
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1867 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:35:52: <ais523> elliott: seems to also require an italicised word
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1868 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:37:55: <elliott> <ais523> elliott: it depends on if you expect we'll get vandals; moves can't be fully reversed by a non-admin, so the reason they're usually disallowed is to prevent vandalism that's disproportionately hard to revert
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1869 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:38:06: <elliott> ais523: I suppose there's unlikely to be page-move spambots :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1870 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:38:27: <ais523> elliott: indeed, unless they're Esolang-specific
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1871 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:50:51: <ais523> anyway, bleh at this binary diff thing
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1872 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:51:08: <ais523> the algorithm as written is still far too slow, also GNU diff doesn't use it despite claiming to
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1873 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:10: <elliott> ais523: Did you try bps?
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1874 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:32: <ais523> I have to write this from scratch, pretty much, NHPL isn't compatible with anything
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1875 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:52:42: <ais523> /possibly/ two-clause BSD, but I'm not even sure on that one
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1876 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:53:36: <elliott> ais523: Yes, and?
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1877 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:54:48: <ais523> I've actually been considering doing something that fits with the format
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1878 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:55:16: <ais523> by checking what the fixed-length bits and variable-length bits are, and just XORing and RLEing the fixed-length bits
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1879 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:55:23: <ais523> and doing something clever with the variable-length bits
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1880 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:06: <ais523> elliott: oh, my patch format is that too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1881 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:12: <ais523> the problem is generating the patch effiicently in the first plcae
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1882 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:14: <ais523> *place
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1883 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:58:46: <ais523> my format uses two bits for command, six for run length
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1884 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:20: <ais523> the commands are copy, insert, delete, and bignum (for run lengths larger than 63; its runlength is multiplied by 64 and added to the runlength of the next command)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1885 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:28: <ais523> and insert is followed by the individual bytes to insert
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1886 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:21:59:53: <ais523> I can generate that format reasonably simply, but not efficiently; O(sn) is too slow in practice
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1887 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:03:54: <elliott> ais523: meh, that's more complicated than bps :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1888 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:04:18: <ais523> elliott: format simplicity is completely missing the point, anyway
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1889 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:04:25: <ais523> it's efficiency in finding the diff
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1890 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:05:06: <ais523> GNU diff seems to do something crazy involving multiple bisections, and finding lines unique to one side or other on the basis that they can't match anything
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1891 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:08: <ais523> and it's way faster than my program, even if I convert all the bytes to hex and put a different one on each line, so it's a fair comparison
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1892 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:22: <pikhq_> ais523: It's quite advantageous for people implementing a patch applier.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1893 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:42: <ais523> pikhq_: well, right, and I'd need that too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1894 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:06:54: <ais523> but the patch applier is going to be O(n) with any sane patch format, unless it's heavily compressed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1895 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:07:04: <ais523> so it's the patch determiner I'm worried about the efficiency of
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1896 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:22:26:47: <elliott> ais523: by the way, I edited two MediaWiki-namespace pages today
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1897 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:17: <elliott> ais523: guess what the norwegian wikipedia's main page is?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1898 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:33: <ais523> elliott: a matrix of solidity?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1899 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:00:43: <elliott> ais523: no, Portal:[en:main -> no]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1900 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:01:00: <ais523> elliott: ah, great :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1901 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:02:04: <elliott> ais523: erm, Portal:[en:Home -> no] actually
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1902 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:02:56: <ais523> this is beginning to sound like a nomic
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1903 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:39:52: <elliott> ais523: how many people does 82.132.*.* affect?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1904 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:40:19: <ais523> elliott: not sure, let me rDNS it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1905 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:41:26: <ais523> 82.132.192.0/18, more specifically, is O2
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1906 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:41:28: <ais523> the UK ISP
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1907 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:01: <elliott> ais523: hmm.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1908 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:09: <ais523> not sure if blocking O2 is reasonable, even if most british esolangers use Virgin Media
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1909 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:10: <ais523> elliott: I think so!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1910 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:28: <elliott> ais523: FSVO "most" equal to 2? :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1911 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:36: <ais523> and other people too, because it was wider than just the O2 range
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1912 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:42:48: <elliott> ais523: yes, but nobody cares about croatia.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1913 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:47:10: <elliott> ais523: Shrooms man?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1914 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt:23:47:21: <ais523> no!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1915 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:01: <ais523> what's HashBot trying to do anyway?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1916 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:14: <ais523> and why would someone spam #esoteric from a phone?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1917 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:26: <ais523> if it dodges the ban, someone ctcp version it next time it's here
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1918 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:36: <elliott> ais523: it's not a phone
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1919 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:54: <ais523> elliott: it's in the O2 range inside that, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1920 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:33:59: <elliott> ais523: oh, it is?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1921 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:00: <ais523> and you were on a phon when you were there
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1922 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:03: <ais523> *phone
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1923 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:34:04: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1924 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:35:01: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1925 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:35:19: <ais523> elliott: no, the narrow range too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1926 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:39:16: <ais523> itidus21: that'd be SendQ exceeded
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1927 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:39:32: <ais523> the difference is that excess flood is if you're sending too much for the server, and sendq is if you're trying to make the server send too much back to you
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1928 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:57:19: <elliott> ais523: you're not meant to be able to move the edit form outside of the content div by supplying MediaWiki with some wikitext to preview, right...?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1929 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:00:57:36: <ais523> elliott: not sure, but I guess not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1930 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:01:17:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1931 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:32:44: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1932 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:25: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1933 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:36: <ais523> hi elliott
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1934 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:45: <ais523> that sounds worrying
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1935 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:37:52: <ais523> I haven't even been asleep since then!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1936 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:38:34: <ais523> actually, I was reading the history in my RSS reader
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1937 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:38:37: <ais523> which is normally how I read Esolang
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1938 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:40:20: <elliott> ais523 doesn't know the crime of being wikipsychic :'(
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1939 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:40:54: <ais523> it was pretty similar on Wikipedia, btw; things rarely took me by surprise because I had a habit of reading the relevant discussion pages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1940 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:41:05: <ais523> although obviously I couldn't read every edit to the whole wiki
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1941 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:45:16: <ais523> it's only Esolang, I don't really care
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1942 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:45:23: <ais523> well, I sort-of do, but most of my arguments don't apply
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1943 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:46:54: <ais523> hmm… "don't really" is not actually an absolute opposite of "really"
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1944 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:51:21: <ais523> it is pretty entertaining, indeed
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1945 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:51:29: <ais523> although I don't think that's its intended purpose
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1946 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:52:24: <ais523> clearly you need Jimbo and ArbCom to ban the same person simultaneously and independently
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1947 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:52:32: <ais523> although I suspect that would simply just leave them with no appeals at all
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1948 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:57:40: <ais523> "There are 4,507 registered users, but most of them are spambots."
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1949 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:58:19: <ais523> elliott: hmm, I remember the case where there were community sanctions on someone, and arbcom agreed with them, then later converted them to a simple ban because nobody could figure out what they meant
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1950 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:59:01: <elliott> ais523: yes, i realise that a 1:4 article:user ratio would be rather unlikely :)
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1951 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:07:59:16: <ais523> I was just amused at the statistic
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1952 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:01:47: <elliott> ais523: hey, you have an anonymised google: are we really the top result for "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity."?
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1953 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:02:15: <ais523> well, it's still probably going to try to geolocate me
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1954 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:02:45: <ais523> but we are, indeed
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1955 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:07: <ais523> a page about Graue is third, and the logs of this channel are fourth
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1956 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:21: <ais523> none of the other results on that page look relevant
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1957 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:26: <ais523> this is without quotes, btw
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1958 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:32: <ais523> elliott: yes, I guessed it was autogenerated
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1959 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:42: <ais523> btw, have you looked at the link in the topic?
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1960 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:03:46: <ais523> not the logs link, the other one
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1961 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:04:01: <ais523> but I have
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1962 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:04:03: <ais523> and it isn't
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1963 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:05:47: <ais523> it had been there for a while
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1964 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:02: <ais523> and I trust Gregor to that extent
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1965 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:20: <ais523> I mean, he could just as easily put warez and pornography on codu.org
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1966 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:06:25: <ais523> well, maybe not quite as easily
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1967 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:01: <elliott> ais523: btw, *did* you have any comments on the featured language process, or are you still reading the changes?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1968 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:16: <ais523> elliott: meh
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1969 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:12:50: <elliott> ais523: i made the best of a bad situation :P
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1970 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:13:27: <elliott> ais523: btw, you need to propose [[Deadfish]] as a candidate.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1971 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:13:53: <ais523> no!
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1972 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:14:25: <elliott> ais523: what?!
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1973 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:14:54: <ais523> yes!
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1974 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:05: <ais523> are /you/ saying @lang isn't the greatest programming language ever designed?
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1975 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:16: -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("before someone mentions Feather").
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1976 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:15:55: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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1977 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:08:16:13: <elliott> ais523: anyway, no, @lang is just the least _sucky_
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1978 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:27:59: <elliott> ais523: helpful tip to write a wikipedia article about yourself: make three copies of the exact same article with different content, one of which will be deleted as copyvio, contest the speedying of only one of the remaining ones, then post it as a new section on [[Talk:Main Page]] once they get deleted
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1979 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:28:25: <ais523> I don't think that would work :)
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1980 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:28:43: <ais523> did someone just try that on Wikipedia? or on Esolang?
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1981 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:24: <ais523> elliott: it's usual to send three scary warnings in response to that
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1982 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:33: <ais523> I'm not sure if it's /correct/, or even if there's a point
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1983 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:35: <ais523> but it's usual
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1984 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:29:45: <ais523> yes but it's like three clicks in Twinkle!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1985 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:29: <ais523> there is something kind of horrifyingly awesome about that
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1986 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:38: <ais523> lowercase p on "Main page"? wouldn't uppercase be better?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1987 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:55: <ais523> note that we'll still need a redirect from the old location pretty much forever
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1988 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:31:58: <elliott> ais523: the sidebar entry is "Main page", and the default community portal page was changed to [[Project:Community portal]]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1989 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:32:17: <ais523> fair enough
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1990 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:32:39: <ais523> my suggestion on Wikipedia was "Portal:Main", but "Esolang:Main" doesn't make sense
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1991 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:04: <ais523> actually, my real preferred solution was to rename it to the null string
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1992 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:09: <ais523> but apparently MediaWiki doesn't support that
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1993 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:33:48: <ais523> it's kind-of ugly even without the Esolang:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1994 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:17: <ais523> and it fails with any other PHPSESSID?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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1995 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:28: <ais523> or just redirects you to the correct one :)
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1996 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:28: <elliott> ais523: naturally; load.pl is a load balancer
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1997 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:37:35: <elliott> ais523: the PHPSESSID is the session of the proxy server
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1998 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:14: <ais523> elliott: gah, we have a debugger like that that we're using for our GPU programming
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1999 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:26: <ais523> only one person across the whole department can debug a GPU program at a time
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2000 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:43: <ais523> not a licensing restriction, it's a complicated technical restriction
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2001 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:38:56: <ais523> I guess you could use screen or something to do that
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2002 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:10: <ais523> this gives you a perfect excuse to procrastinate!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2003 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:38: <ais523> elliott: oh, . is string concatenation there?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2004 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:49: <ais523> I thought it was method invocation for a moment
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2005 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:43:54: <ais523> which would have been awesome but worrying
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2006 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:24: <ais523> now I want a language that lets you call methods ? and isn't Smalltalk-like
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2007 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:33: <ais523> (doing it in Smalltalk is too easy)
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2008 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:44:37: <ais523> I guess JavaScript does
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2009 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:45:03: <ais523> and Lua lets you define them, but I'm not sure offhand if there's any way to call them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2010 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:08: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2011 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:11: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2012 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:45: -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523.
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2013 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:48: <ais523> how can you tell?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2014 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:53:53: <elliott> ais523: http://conservapedia.com/Special:Version
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2015 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:54:03: <ais523> also, I'm guessing you somehow managed to make all links not show up? or edited them out of the page?
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2016 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:43: <elliott> ais523: hey, when's Eurovision?
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2017 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:53: <ais523> I don't know; Wikipedia probably does
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2018 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:57:55: <ais523> it's a good question
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2019 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:21: <ais523> 26 may is the final
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2020 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:26: <ais523> 22 and 24 may are the semifinals
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2021 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:29: <ais523> just looked it up
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2022 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:42: <elliott> ais523: Thanks, I was looking for a FINNISH QUALITY ANSWER though.
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2023 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:58:53: <ais523> it's after NetHack Apocalypse Day, which I really need to prepare for
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2024 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:16: <ais523> elliott: it's a secret that isn't really all that secret, and I invented the name for it just now
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2025 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:25: <ais523> but we're planning it for april 1 so that nobody believes it when it happens
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2026 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:10:59:32: <ais523> and so that we can back out of it really easily
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2027 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:02: <ais523> (fun fact: you can back out of pretty much anything that isn't illegal if you do it on april 1)
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2028 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:13: <elliott> ais523: nitrohack is being released as nethack 4.0.0?
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2029 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:43: <ais523> yes, but it's more complex than that
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2030 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:49: <ais523> and requires the coordination of quite a lot of people
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2031 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:57: <elliott> ais523: "...without the devteam's consent"?
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2032 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:00:59: <ais523> well, 3
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2033 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:01:06: <ais523> but that's more than we managed last year
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2034 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:01:17: <ais523> I haven't even finished merging NiceHack yet, though
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2035 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:02:53: <ais523> silence of reading another window, pinging me helps if you want a quick answer
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2036 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:03:21: <ais523> and my solution, unlike daniel_t's, is to say that I'm supporting a small set of platforms to start with just to get something moving, and willing to expand as people willing to test and send in patches are found
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2037 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:03:37: <ais523> this viewpoint is actually probably equivalent to his, but less controversial
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2038 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:04:15: <ais523> oh, we're not getting their consent for this
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2039 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:04:41: <ais523> you know what we really need? someone at Debian to mistake it for not an april fool's thing and package it up
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2040 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:07: <ais523> they package INTERCAL!
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2041 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:41: <ais523> and as long as it hits testing with the new major version, they can't subsequently reduce the major version number
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2042 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:07:55: <ais523> they'd either have to add a majorer version number to let them drop it back down to 3.4.3, or lie and call it 4.4.3 or something
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2043 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:08:02: <ais523> well, OK
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2044 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:10:19: <ais523> we might go onto a coup
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2045 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:10:24: <ais523> if the april 1 thing is well-received
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2046 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:12:51: <elliott> ais523: Can you fix this hook?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2047 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:13:03: <ais523> it's in PHP, so no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2048 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:13:10: <ais523> not in my current state of tiredness
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2049 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:16:05: <elliott> ais523: tell past elliott he's a moron
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2050 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:16:30: <ais523> elliott: I'm no good at retroactive IRC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2051 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:21:08: <ais523> for any particular reason? or by mistake?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2052 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:22:58: <elliott> ais523: oh dear, now I'm getting annoyed at /w/ URLs too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2053 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:38:11: <ais523> arguments in a different order, perhaps?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2054 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:39:30: <ais523> they aren't really globals
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2055 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:40:16: <ais523> yep
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2056 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:41:50: <elliott> ais523: btw, the reason /wiki/ was redirecting to /wiki/Main_Page is that I configured nginx to do that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2057 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:47:31: <elliott> ais523: fizzie: group-ping
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2058 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:47:49: <ais523> pong
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2059 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:49:18: <ais523> hmm, interesting
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2060 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:50:45: <ais523> well, it's a channel that was spun off in order to deflect away offtopic material
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2061 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:50:55: <ais523> hmm, does #irp count along the same lines? it's basically just a honeypot for Reddit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2062 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:23: <ais523> probably just #esoteric
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2063 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:31: <ais523> do we care about #esoteric-offtopic or #esoteric-blah?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2064 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:31: <elliott> hmm, it asks for your role in the project, and suggests you should be senior; if the URL is esolangs.org, that suggests ais523 should do it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2065 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:51:44: <elliott> ais523: i doubt it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2066 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:36: <elliott> ais523: oh dear, after all that effort, MediaWiki thwarts me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2067 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:38: <ais523> exploration of insufficiently explored theories of programming language design
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2068 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:53:52: <ais523> I can make it sound relevant and ontopic when I need to!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2069 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:54:03: <ais523> can you patch that check out?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2070 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:54:29: <elliott> ais523: also, that's not relevant and on-topic, strictly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2071 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:55:03: <ais523> perhaps
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2072 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:55:11: <ais523> I was thinking from the academic point of view
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2073 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:38: <ais523> elliott: you filling it out seems reasonable, as long as enough of the other people who help to run this channel agree
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2074 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:49: <ais523> based on their rules for who should be primary contact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2075 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:56:59: <ais523> besides, it uses recaptcha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2076 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:14: <elliott> ais523: err, I doubt someone who isn't an op would be considered a good contact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2077 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:31: <ais523> oh dear…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2078 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:36: <ais523> and yes, good point
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2079 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:57:53: <ais523> should probably be fizzie as senior op, then
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2080 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:06: <ais523> oerjan was opped recently enough that chanserv remembers whne it happened, as was I
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2081 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:11: <elliott> ais523: well, the thing is that they use the URL to verify the claim
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2082 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:58:54: <ais523> don't you need to be a server admin anyway, for the confirmation?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2083 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:11: <ais523> it's not completely implausible that a community might want separation of powers between their website and IRC channel, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2084 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:16: <elliott> ais523: I don't think it's a "put this HTML thing on your website"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2085 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:56: <elliott> ais523: it would be really convenient to own esoteric.<tld> for this...
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2086 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:11:59:59: <ais523> perhaps
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2087 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:00:19: <ais523> if there's a human involved, we can explain easily enough
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2088 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:01:09: <elliott> ais523: and yes, but this is /freenode/, that'll slow it down by ten years
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2089 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:01:50: <ais523> who runs the esolang mailing list on sange.fi? and does it still exist?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2090 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:06: <ais523> elliott: why?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2091 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:11: <ais523> it'd help avoid confusion
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2092 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:14: <elliott> ais523: because that defeats the whole point?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2093 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:19: <ais523> what whole point?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2094 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:04:30: <ais523> #esolang is probably a better name, come to think of it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2095 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:05:02: <ais523> well, esolang is a contraction for "esoteric language", and we thought the language was redundant as we're on Freenode
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2096 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:06:07: <ais523> elliott: I'm projecting
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2097 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:12: <elliott> ais523: I'm an op now, right?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2098 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:31: <ais523> too tired to consider the merits of opping or otherwise someone right now
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2099 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:41: <ais523> btw, you're starting to remind me uncomfortably of kerio
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2100 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:47: <shachaf> ais523: Making elliott an op would be the biggest mistake you could ever make.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2101 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:54: <elliott> ais523: excellent, the less thoughtful you are the more likely you'll op me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2102 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:08:56: <ais523> who among other things keeps continuously nagging me to fill out GRFs for AceHack
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2103 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:17: <ais523> he /is/ opped in #acehack, but we have the settings such that he can't deal too much damage
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2104 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:28: <elliott> ais523: I thought AceHack was busy being deconstructed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2105 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:31: <ais523> group registration form
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2106 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:46: <ais523> elliott: it's being merged with nitrohack, which is typically discussed in #unnethack (and sometimes #acehack)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2107 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:09:55: <ais523> but channels all have their own communities
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2108 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:10:16: <ais523> #unnethack's become the de-facto channel for discussing variants as a set (as opposed to particular variants)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2109 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:10:49: <ais523> haha, there is, but nobody's there but kerio
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2110 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:11:10: <ais523> and #grunthack was created really recently, mostly to have a place to put the announcebot
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2111 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:11:33: <elliott> ais523: am I an op yet?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2112 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:08: <elliott> it says yes ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2113 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:15: <ais523> elliott: you can ask chanserv, probably faster than getting a response from me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2114 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:21: <shachaf> ais523: Make elliott a nop.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2115 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:22: <ais523> shachaf: please tell me you just registered that :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2116 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:29: <elliott> but it also says ais523 has to make me into an op before i can use it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2117 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:53: <ais523> No match for "ISELLIOTTANOPYET.COM".
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2118 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:12:57: <shachaf> ais523: Nope, it's free.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2119 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:34: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2120 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:36: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2121 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:37: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2122 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:39: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2123 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:40: <ais523> `quote
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2124 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:47: <HackEgo> 92) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2125 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:51: <ais523> shall I delete a good one to make room for it?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2126 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:13:55: <HackEgo> 449) <ais523> the thing about modern semiconductor design is, 0s are more powerful as 1s
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2127 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:06: <ais523> gah, I meant "than 1s"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2128 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:21: <ais523> OK, I agree with that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2129 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:14:26: <ais523> deleting 86, that is
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2130 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:00: <ais523> also, 92 is /my/ pet 825
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2131 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:07: <ais523> shachaf: it's numbered 825 now
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2132 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:37: <ais523> elliott: does that actually go back 105 revisions?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2133 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:42: <elliott> ais523: no, it goes back to revision 105
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2134 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:15:45: <ais523> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2135 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:16:39: <ais523> `touch UNDELETE.EXE
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2136 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:17:38: <ais523> `run echo now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely >> canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2137 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:17:44: <ais523> although not really /that/ hard
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2138 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:18:20: <ais523> fun fact: the only reason canary was empty beforehand was that it used to say that and someone decided to test it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2139 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:18:24: <ais523> (note: may not be a true fact)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2140 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:00: <ais523> `cat canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2141 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:17: <ais523> I think we need something in there about a canary's typical reaction to a cat (which is based on a cat's typical reaction to a canary)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2142 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:28: <ais523> `rm canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2143 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:36: <ais523> `cat canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2144 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:41: <ais523> still is
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2145 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:21:44: <ais523> can't delete canary :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2146 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:13: <ais523> `run rm canary && mkdir canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2147 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:19: <ais523> `cat canary
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2148 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:30: <ais523> huh?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2149 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:33: <elliott> ais523: hg doesn't track empty directories
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2150 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:49: <ais523> `cat foo
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2151 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:22:58: <ais523> awesome
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2152 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:35: <ais523> elliott: isn't he called RocketJSquirrel?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2153 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:39: <elliott> @tell Gregor http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2154 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:23:43: * ais523 demands he changes back to Friendship
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2155 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:23: <ais523> I was wondering about doing that, but decided against it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2156 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:49: <shachaf> ais523: Is ais523 your real name?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2157 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:51: <ais523> you know that at least one of those is very likely to end up ending with no messages?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2158 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:24:57: <ais523> shachaf: what do you consider to be a real name?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2159 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:03: <elliott> ais523: the idea is that all of them get cleared
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2160 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:06: <shachaf> ais523: Or is your real name "(this is obviously not my real name)"?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2161 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:12: <shachaf> ais523: How should I know?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2162 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:25:16: <ais523> shachaf: that obviously isn't my real name
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2163 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:26:02: <ais523> did I say they were the same?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2164 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:26:28: <ais523> and did I say that you said that I said they were the same?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2165 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:13: <ais523> `pastlog you said that I said
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2166 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:17: <ais523> now we have to check!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2167 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:27:54: <ais523> shachaf: I don't think I've ever talked to you in not-public
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2168 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:05: <ais523> oh, apparently I have
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2169 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:12: <ais523> just the one line, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2170 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:18: <ais523> it was related to #vacuum
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2171 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:28:41: <ais523> gah, literal facepalm
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2172 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:10: <ais523> elliott: did you just tell shachaf to persuade me to go there without telling him what it was called?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2173 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:18: <ais523> because according to client history, he never mentioned the nam
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
HackBot
parents:
diff changeset
2174 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:20: <ais523> *name
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2175 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:24: <ais523> admittedly, that would be hilarious
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2176 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:28: <elliott> ais523: I have no idea what you're talking about.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2177 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:29:52: * ais523 is unsure if he wants to believe that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2178 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:30:17: <ais523> indeed it is registered; ChanServ wouldn't let me see its access list
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2179 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:30:24: <ais523> which implies that someone owns it to be able to configure it to do that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2180 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:22: <ais523> elliott: remember #<redacted>? it was agora-related, also it wasn't a cow, nor not a cow
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2181 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:42: <elliott> ais523: FUCK YOU RUINED MY FUCKING TOWER JEEZ
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2182 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:47: <elliott> ais523: Does it start with an a and end with an oecabal?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2183 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:31:51: <ais523> yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2184 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:07: <elliott> ais523: apointlessshoecabal?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2185 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:07: <ais523> it's almost as locked-down as #vacuum nowadays
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2186 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:32:15: <ais523> perhaps
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2187 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:48:26: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2188 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:49:26: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2189 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:51:20: <ais523> oh, btw, CFJ 2613 was awesome
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2190 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:51:28: <ais523> such a pity the judge didn't take it seriously
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2191 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:12:57:41: <oerjan> elliott: you do realize ais523 is also an op?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2192 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:08:56: <elliott> ais523: HE PROPOSED RELAXING THE POLICY
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2193 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:09:11: <ais523> elliott: calm down!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2194 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:09:31: <ais523> clearly, it should be [[Tanner L. Swett]]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2195 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:10:48: <elliott> ais523: it would actually be [[Ivan Hope Stupidromannumerals]]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2196 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:11:38: <ais523> wait, you mean it isn't his real name?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2197 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:15:47: * ais523 suggests an FAC
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2198 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:01: <elliott> ais523: /an/?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2199 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:05: <ais523> elliott: hmm, isn't the article about Graue at [[Catatonic Porpoise]]
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2200 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:10: <elliott> ais523: hey, you broke the rules!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2201 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:15: <ais523> elliott: "an" is correct if you don't expand the acronym
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
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2202 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:18: <ais523> and in what way?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2203 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:28: <elliott> ais523: oh, oops
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2204 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:33: <elliott> ais523: correction, I wrote the rules wrong
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2205 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:16:46: <ais523> so go fix them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2206 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:17:05: <ais523> elliott: what did you intend to make a rule that you didn't?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2207 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:09: <ais523> elliott: oh, you did omit the signature; I went and edited the rules to require it when I made the suggestion >:)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2208 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:20: <elliott> oerjan: kick ais523, pls
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2209 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:45: <ais523> elliott: how else can someone quickly check that they haven't nominated a different language?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2210 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:52: <ais523> we can delete the sigs before judging
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2211 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:18:57: <elliott> ais523: but they could just fake a signature!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2212 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:20:20: <elliott> ais523: btw, since you weren't around for the discussion, I came up with this system so that (a) people didn't have to suggest things _regularly_ i.e. there's no point expiring something just because it was proposed and not chosen last $timespan,
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2213 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:20:48: <ais523> elliott: indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2214 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:21:03: <ais523> anyway, I think it's worth having all the paradigm classics featured that aren't brainfuck
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2215 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:21:33: <ais523> heh, indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2216 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:22:35: <elliott> ais523: I agree that paradigm classics should be featured, but I also think devoting the first like 7 timespans to the classics would be a bad idea
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2217 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:25:36: <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2218 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:32:48: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2219 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:35:30: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: oerjan: perhaps we should feature [[Esme]] sometime. <-- er....
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2220 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:38:51: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2221 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:39:57: <ais523> not sure
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2222 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:03: <ais523> I'm not even convinced it was intended as a tarpit
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2223 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:16: <ais523> (especially given that it has several instructions that are clearly redundant, like i and v)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2224 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:26: <ais523> it was just intended as a functional language without lambda
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2225 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:40:31: <ais523> a job which it succeeds at admirably
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2226 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:43:10: <ais523> yep, and I might add a section on programming in it (or rather, relambda)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2227 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:47:29: <elliott> ais523: thanks for that fix, the process used to be on the featured languages page itsel
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2228 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:48:13: <ais523> have the Pirate Bay decided that what they're doing is actually illegal yet? or are they just wondering why the police keep trying to shut them down?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2229 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:49:27: <fizzie> ais523: "We think that the investigation is interesting considering nothing that TPB does is illegal." --2012-03-09
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2230 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:49:37: <ais523> and that's pretty recent
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2231 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:12: <elliott> ais523: btw, why is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Featured_languages empty? [[:///]] is in it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2232 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:13: <ais523> elliott: oh, I don't think they're doing anything illegal either; and yet people are trying so hard to get rid of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2233 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:43: <elliott> ais523: well, the torrents they offer nowadays are DHT-based.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2234 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:50: <ais523> that's bizarre
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2235 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:50:52: <elliott> ais523: you can't raid a distributed hash table.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2236 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:35: <elliott> ais523: if it matters, the category is from a template
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2237 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:45: <ais523> oh, that /might/ matter
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2238 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:51:49: <ais523> are you running the job queue?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2239 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:52:42: <ais523> it's normally the job queue that's responsible for category updates via templates
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2240 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:53:24: <ais523> fixed it, anyway, by null-editing the page
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2241 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:53:41: <ais523> (just load the edit view, then click "save changes" without doing anything)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2242 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:54:02: <ais523> (that regenerates the page in a stronger way than merely purging does)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2243 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:59:22: <elliott> ais523: Kick shachaf.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2244 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:13:59:41: <ais523> elliott: it was quite a good joke…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2245 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:08:57: <elliott> ais523: Are you going to kick shachaf or not?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2246 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:18:46: <lambdabot> elliott said 1h 55m 5s ago: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#122213ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2247 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:20:23: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2248 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:27:33: <oerjan> 08:15:16: -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("before someone mentions Feather").
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2249 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:14:27:33: <oerjan> 08:15:55: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2250 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:15:59:10: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2251 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:16:34:30: <ais523> quintopia: ion: are you in the same class somehow?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2252 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-19.txt:16:35:40: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2253 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:05:20: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2254 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:05:59: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2255 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:11: <ais523> hi elliott
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2256 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:27: <shachaf> `welcome ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2257 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:06:36: <HackEgo> ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2258 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:08:30: <elliott> `unwelcome ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2259 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:09:06: <shachaf> "your not welcome in here, ais523" -- elliott "hi" elliott
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2260 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:09:46: <shachaf> ais523: Ban me from this channel!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2261 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:55:31: <elliott> shachaf: ais523: fizzie: pikhq_: ping
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2262 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:21: <ais523> checking
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2263 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:25: <ais523> no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2264 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:49: <ais523> ah, it has loaded
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2265 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:56:51: <ais523> but pretty slowly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2266 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:03: <ais523> and it's working now
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2267 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:25: <ais523> looks like it was some sort of DNS glitch
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2268 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:44: <ais523> try a couple of other servers
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2269 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:49: <ais523> DNS servers, that is
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2270 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:57:54: <ais523> dig @8.8.8.8, dig @4.2.2.1
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2271 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:58:43: <ais523> 8.8.8.8 (Google), gave me the right answer straight away, 4.2.2.1 (Level3) took a while then returned no IP
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2272 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:08:59:18: <ais523> <Level3> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 7188
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2273 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:08:36: <ais523> C++ has rather stricter rules on pointers than C does
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2274 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:08:45: <ais523> I'm not offhand sure whether it lets you cast anything into a void* or not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2275 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:02: <elliott> ais523: holy crap, the categories list at the bottom of MediaWiki pages is in source order
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2276 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:09: <elliott> ais523: I assumed it'd sort them...
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2277 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:24: <ais523> it's more flexible this way, you can order them by hand
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2278 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:37: <ais523> presumably there's an AWB plugin for sorting them, and a huge row about whether people should use it or not
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2279 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:41: <elliott> ais523: how is that flexibility useful?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2280 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:28:50: <ais523> you are missing the point of MediaWiki!
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2281 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:29:16: <ais523> I think it's used to put [[Category:Living people]] first, though
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2282 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:29:47: <elliott> ais523: IMO, that should be done by allowing you to establish relations between _categories_
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2283 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:30:26: <ais523> did you know that not only can you, in an article, choose where the category goes in the list of categories on the article, but also where the article goes in the list of articles on the category?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2284 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:32:59: <ais523> zzo38: indeed
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2285 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:33:44: <elliott> ais523: speaking of bots, how hellish is pywikipediabot?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2286 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:34:22: <ais523> not as bad as rolling your own library, although last I looked it used scraping rather than the API
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2287 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:34:26: <ais523> perhaps it's been fixed to use the API since
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2288 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:37:41: <elliott> ais523: err, apparently [[Category:Living people]] exists only for BLP monitoring
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2289 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:37:54: <ais523> elliott: indeed, that's its purpose
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2290 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:06: <ais523> but it's so important when editing something
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2291 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:10: <ais523> by policy
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2292 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:38:30: <ais523> Wikipedia isn't really aimed at readers, because they don't make the decisions…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2293 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:09:40:20: <ais523> yes!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2294 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:12:06: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2295 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:23:07: -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2296 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:11: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2297 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:37: <ais523_> !glogbot_ignore so am I online now?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2298 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:43: <ais523_> yay
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2299 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:44:52: <ais523_> (!glogbot_ignore: good ping, or the best ping?)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2300 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:46:52: <elliott> ais523_: no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2301 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:47:28: <elliott> ais523_: Now, er, how much do you know about table styling?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2302 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:48:30: <ais523_> not a huge amount
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2303 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:06: <elliott> ais523_: by the way, I thought of an obvious criterion for the spam user deletion script I missed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2304 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:17: <ais523_> go on
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2305 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:41: <elliott> ais523_: "has an entry in the block log matching %spam%" (note: this is different from "is currently blocked with that entry")
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2306 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:55:57: <ais523_> ah, of course
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2307 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:08: <ais523_> what about "has a 24-year block"?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2308 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:21: <ais523_> for when the reason was typoed or not given?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2309 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:56:38: <ais523_> although you'll need to check fake-lament on that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2310 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:57:10: * ais523_ thinks it's vaguely weird to be on a wiki that's had exactly one vandal
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2311 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:58:06: <ais523_> no "spma" or "spa," or whatever?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2312 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:10:58:24: <elliott> ais523_: oh, probably (although not "spma", at least), but we can delete users manually after-the-fact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2313 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:00:09: <elliott> ais523_: haha, wow: (show/hide) 06:13, 28 September 2005 Graue (Talk | contribs | block) blocked 69.50.165.186 (Talk) with an expiry time of 24 years ‎ (probably a spammer testing to see if shit gets deleted here) (unblock | change block)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2314 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:00:22: <elliott> ais523_: they were blocked for creating [[Esolang:Sandbox]] with "Hello"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2315 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:02:54: <elliott> ais523_: also, I'm wondering if lament-impersonator isn't actually lament themselves
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2316 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:04:30: <elliott> ais523_: it seems it happened when IRP was on reddit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2317 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:14:41: <elliott> ais523_: wow, the query is really good now
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2318 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:15:41: <elliott> ais523_: (actually, I'm more surprised there were 3043 matches before adding the log entry criterion)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2319 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:16:18: <elliott> I get the feeling ais523_ isn't here
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2320 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:22:08: <elliott> ais523_: fun fact: nobody has ever been unblocked on esolang
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2321 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:40:41: <elliott> ais523: ais523_: another criterion I just thought of: only contribution is to own user or user talk page, which has been deleted
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2322 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:11:40:53: <elliott> ais523: ais523_: (keymaker has deleted lots, but never filled out a reason)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2323 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:02:33: <ais523_> I've been with students all this time
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2324 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:20: <ais523_> so, esolang idea inspired by one of my students' code: a language that ignores expressions
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2325 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:45: <ais523_> as in, it's vaguely C-like, but if(x>3) and if(y>4) mean the same thing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2326 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:12:59:58: <ais523_> you can write conditionals, but not choose what they're conditionalling on
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2327 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:07: <elliott> ais523_: did you see what I said about the first user ever blocked on esolang, btw?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2328 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:59: <elliott> <elliott> ais523_: haha, wow: (show/hide) 06:13, 28 September 2005 Graue (Talk | contribs | block) blocked 69.50.165.186 (Talk) with an expiry time of 24 years ‎ (probably a spammer testing to see if shit gets deleted here) (unblock | change block)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2329 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:02:59: <elliott> <elliott> ais523_: they were blocked for creating [[Esolang:Sandbox]] with "Hello"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2330 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:04:27: <ais523_> I did
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2331 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:04:48: <ais523_> and you can just edit [[Project:Sandbox]] on any MediaWiki wiki, it'll be translated to the appropriate alternative
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2332 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:05: <elliott> ais523_: I rather doubt spambots are doing that, either
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2333 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:17: <ais523_> anyway, Coq requires your programs to be proved correct, much like Agda
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2334 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:27: <ais523_> so it's rather harder to program in than Haskell
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2335 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:35: <elliott> ais523_: your first statement is completely false (and also nonsensical)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2336 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:45: <ais523_> well, yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2337 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:05:50: <ais523_> but /if/ it made sense, it would be true
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2338 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:06:06: <elliott> ais523_: I doubt it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2339 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:06:16: <ais523_> (note: I've been awake for quite a while, you can expect me to make no sense)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2340 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:30: <ais523_> yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2341 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:33: <ais523_> admittedly, not by much
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2342 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:07:48: <ais523_> also, I'm usually tired
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2343 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:09:27: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2344 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:12:14: <ais523_> bleh, that's the wireless malfunctioning again
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2345 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:12:18: <ais523_> alternatively, someone stealing my laptop
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2346 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:13:59: <elliott> ais523_: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2347 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:20:03: <ais523_> ^ul ((oerjan: )S:^):^
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2348 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:20:21: <ais523_> if you're going to recursively ping someone, do it properly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2349 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:21:43: <oerjan> ^bf >[,>]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!ais523_:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2350 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:13: <oerjan> ^bf >,[>,]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>]!ais523_:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2351 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:13: <fungot> ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ais523_: ...
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2352 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:22:58: <ais523_> I was about to ask, for any particular reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2353 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:23:01: <ais523_> but I think you answered for me
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2354 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:25:14: <ais523_> fizzie: but we're reusing them anyway
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2355 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:25:56: <ais523_> but the (oerjan) is being :ed in both cases
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2356 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:26:17: <ais523_> just it's inside another program in one of the cases)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2357 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:26:35: <ais523_> (great things about English #50: it even lets you verb punctuation marks)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2358 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:01: <elliott> ais523_: I think Swedish does that better, they have an actual separator
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2359 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:14: <ais523_> how many languages allow s/// constructs, with that name?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2360 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:26: <ais523_> it might be more fun to link each word of "everybody seems to be doing" to a different language
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2361 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:27:32: <ais523_> but that would mean finding five of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2362 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:28:19: <ais523_> thue uses the ::= syntax
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2363 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:28:34: <elliott> ais523_: perl, sed, ed (I think)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2364 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:33:52: <elliott> ais523_: hey, mind if I move [[Template:Featured language]] to [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]] and [[Template:Featured]] to [[Template:Featured language]]?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2365 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:47:25: <ais523_> elliott: I don't mind
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2366 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:47:38: <ais523_> (remember that you can transclude non-templates)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2367 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:08: <elliott> ais523_: obviously, or I wouldn't move {{featured language}} to [[Esolang:Featured languages/Current]], it'd break the main page :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2368 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:19: <ais523_> elliott: fun fact: did you know that templates weren't actually added to MediaWiki intentionally?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2369 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:34: <elliott> ais523_: you originally transcluded interface messages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2370 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:44: <ais523_> yes, for internationalisation purposes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2371 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:48:50: <elliott> ais523_: I know this because I read a comment where you explained it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2372 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:08: <ais523_> and people realised you could put arbitrary stuff in MediaWiki: space even though the software ignored it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2373 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:15: <ais523_> and make it think you were internationalising messages
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2374 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:22: <ais523_> and that's how templates came about
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2375 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:29: <elliott> ais523_: it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_November_18#Template:Tooltip-article i read it at
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2376 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:42: <ais523_> ah, OK
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2377 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:49:56: <ais523_> I'm one of the few people to ever have successfully MfDed a MediaWiki:-space page
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2378 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:09: <ais523_> I followed it up by speedying one, I think
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2379 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:40: <elliott> Comment I've posted the MfD now. Wow, that's the second time I've MfD'd a MediaWiki: page... --ais523 10:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2380 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:50:55: <ais523_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki:Tooltip-article
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2381 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:00: <ais523_> bleh, you beat me to it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2382 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:47: <ais523_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki:Block_compress_delete
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2383 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:51:54: <elliott> ais523_: err, does this person realise you're talking about a MediaWiki-space page?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2384 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:52:06: <ais523_> they probably did, and were intentionally-ignoring the fact
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2385 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:53:46: <ais523_> you wouldn't get huge breakage, just lots of messages being less customized
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2386 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:18: <ais523_> hmm, it's fun to see that in 2006, I wasn't sure what deleting an interface message would do and neither was anyone else
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2387 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:22: <ais523_> and in 2007, I was explaining it to them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2388 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:54:48: <elliott> ais523_: you asked if sandbox edits show up in the "edit log" on [[Esolang:Sandbox]] in 2006
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2389 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:55:25: <ais523_> heh
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2390 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:56:12: <ais523_> meanwhile, you might enjoy this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/MediaWiki:
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2391 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:56:20: <ais523_> it's how I found the relevant MfDs
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2392 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:13:57:41: -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2393 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:17: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2394 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:37: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2395 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:31:59: <ais523> try saving and restoring twice
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2396 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:34:13: <elliott> ais523: what?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2397 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:34:37: <ais523> I was in the mood for a non sequitur
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2398 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:47:47: <elliott> ais523: hey, can you fix CSS so it supports negative paddings?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2399 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:48:14: <ais523> no
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2400 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:48:26: <ais523> would a negative margin work for whatever you're trying to do?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2401 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:55:46: <ais523> elliott: oh, I fixed my binary diff problem with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2402 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:30: <ais523> I got the save code to remember, for each thing it wrote out, what it was writing out (with an identifier that wouldn't change over time and was unique for each bit of the save file), and which byte in the save file it started
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2403 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:42: <ais523> then I compare the files by comparing the tags and going byte-by-byte from there
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2404 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:56:48: <ais523> if you believe hashtables to be O(1), it's O(n)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2405 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:57:10: <ais523> and leads to a diff format that has commands seek, copy, edit
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2406 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:58:38: <ais523> I'm not even convinced it's an awful hack…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2407 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:14:59:46: <ais523> in my case, it's O(n^2) in the limit because I use a linked list upon hash collisions, but O(n) throughout the file sizes that actually happen in practice
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2408 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:15:00:53: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2409 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:15:13:51: <oerjan> although with ais523 and Taneb snatching the very two languages i was considering instead...
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2410 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-20.txt:18:29:39: <elliott> In my defence, ais523 added that signature when adding his entry without updating the rest of the instructions.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2411 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:55:01: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2412 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:56:52: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2413 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:09:56:58: <ais523> hi
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2414 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:23:23: <ais523> fizzie: uppercase ß is SS
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2415 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:04: <fizzie> ais523: Sure, but that's just boring. The thing kmc linked to is much better, and in fact a bit like whatI thought it'd be.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2416 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:35: <elliott> ais523: Ss, no?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2417 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:39: <ais523> I accidentally discovered there was such a thing as uppercase schwa recently
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2418 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:27:46: <ais523> elliott: hmm, debatable; I've seen SS more commonly
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2419 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:58:16: <ais523> elliott: fun fact: Verity turned out to have capability security by accident
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2420 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:10:58:21: <ais523> we didn't put it in there deliberately, it just happened
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2421 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:00: <elliott> ais523: haha
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2422 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:18: <elliott> ais523: well, capability security is more about /not/ doing certain things, really
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2423 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:00:41: <ais523> want to light up an LED? someone has to pass you a function that lets you do that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2424 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:01:01: <ais523> we have a linker where you just do "import <library>" and it'll automatically set up the required calls behind the scenes, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2425 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:03:25: <elliott> ais523: hey, what's the equivalent of "bibliography" for programming languages?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2426 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:03:57: <ais523> hmm, what exactly do you mean by that? I can think of two possible meanings and am having problems expressing either of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2427 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:05:03: <ais523> oh, that wasn't either of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2428 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:05:14: <ais523> we can go with catseye's version, I think
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2429 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:06:37: <elliott> ais523: (I realised [[Chris Pressey]] should probably have a comprehensive list of the languages we have articles on)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2430 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:06:46: <ais523> indeed
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2431 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:11:55: <ais523> seriously?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2432 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:02: <ais523> admittedly, I like Homespring and Muriel too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2433 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:38: <ais523> actually, I should start using Homespring rather than Haifu as an example of a good thematic language
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2434 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:44: <ais523> they both are, but Homespring is better
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2435 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:50: <ais523> well, HOMESPRING
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2436 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:12:56: <ais523> it's an acronym, after all
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2437 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:13:10: <elliott> ais523: no, HOtMEfSPRIbNG
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2438 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:13:19: <ais523> that's the expanded version
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2439 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:14:49: <ais523> how bizarre
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2440 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:15:07: <ais523> there's also documentation in the esoteric files archive, though
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2441 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:15:26: <ais523> nah, it's hilarious
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2442 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:04: <ais523> elliott: what are Linux DEs like nowadays?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2443 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:31: <elliott> ais523: which ones?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2444 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:37: <ais523> any of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2445 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:44: <ais523> I'm still on Gnome 2, but I'm going to have to upgrade eventually
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2446 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:20:52: <ais523> and am wondering if there are any I'll find usable
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2447 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:21:04: <ais523> (note: I consider Windows 7 usable; not on default settings, but it only requires small changes)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2448 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:21:50: <ais523> pity, I was rather hoping they would
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2449 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:03: <ais523> or at least, that someone had got gnome-panel working properly in gnome 3
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2450 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:08: <ais523> that's what I'd want, really
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2451 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:30: <elliott> ais523: gnome 3 does have a gnome-panel, the "fallback" mode
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2452 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:34: <ais523> keep the applications, use the old window manager and panel application
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2453 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:38: <ais523> yep, I'd heard that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2454 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:22:52: <ais523> crazy idea: is it possible to use gnome 2's gnome-panel in gnome 3?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2455 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:23:39: <ais523> I guess I'll try Unity first, and probably decide I don't like it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2456 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:23:42: <ais523> and then KDE
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2457 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:24:20: <elliott> ais523: why not just try Xfce first?
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2458 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:24:52: <ais523> I guess trying the options that you expect not to succeed first is likely to produce a better decision in the end
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2459 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:25:02: <ais523> also note that I used an earlier version of KDE 4 for a while
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2460 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:25:07: <ais523> and it was mostly usable
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2461 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:33:50: <ais523> a fail isn't really quite the same thing as an exception, although they're similar
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2462 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:33:55: <ais523> and a cut is not the same thing as an exception at all
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2463 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:34:05: <ais523> and a nonlocal cut is not at all related
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2464 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:35:59: <ais523> it's possible to implement fails as exceptions
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2465 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:36:18: <ais523> I was showing my students how to do that in Java, for if they wanted to write a parser that wasn't LL(1)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2466 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:36:40: <ais523> (which was a surprisingly possible thing, as they had to write a parser, and had been shown how to write LL(1) parsers which was sufficient for the exercise)
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2467 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:42:48: <ais523> hagb4rd: don't all error handling mechanisms do that?
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2468 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:11:59:10: <ais523> oh right, I forgot about the antipattern where when anything goes wrong, you print it to stdout and keep on going
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2469 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:12:33:05: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
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2470 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:13:33:16: <oerjan> <elliott> ais523: Ss, no? <-- since it doesn't actually occur at the start of words it would probably always be all caps, so SS as ais523 says
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2471 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:42:15: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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2472 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:42:40: <ais523> hi elliott
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2473 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:44:04: <elliott> hi ais523
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2474 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:45:54: <ais523> Vorpal: the GPU renders the cursor, AFAIK
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2475 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:46:07: <ais523> the reason I think this is that I've seen GPU crashes that render nothing on the system working /but/ the mouse cursor
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2476 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:46:27: <elliott> ais523: That's a bit modern-day for Vorpal's question.
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2477 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:56:46: <ais523> bleh, my zoom-in-and-see-the-individual-pixels window manager trick doesn't work on the cursor
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2478 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:06: <Vorpal> ais523, a screen magnifier? Or something else?
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2479 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:25: <ais523> Vorpal: it's one of the compiz features
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2480 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:32: <ais523> most of them, I'm not even sure if they have an intended use
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2481 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:36: <ais523> they were just added because they could
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2482 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:58:53: <ais523> e.g. I can make a window black-and-white using super-shift-mousewheel
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2483 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:04: <ais523> which is nice on occasion, if something's too brightly colored
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2484 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:34: <Vorpal> ais523, anyway, what happened to the cursor when you used that trick?
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2485 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:41: <ais523> it just kept moving around as normal
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2486 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:48: <ais523> oh, you mean zooming in?
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2487 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:51: <ais523> it stayed the same size
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2488 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:15:59:59: <ais523> and moving it changed the point the screen was zoomed around
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2489 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:01:46: <ais523> fizzie: that's actually in the default set when you ask for high effects
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2490 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:02:47: <ais523> Vorpal: there's a bit of a timelag on pixels further from the mouse
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2491 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:02:53: <ais523> so it looks like the window's slightly elastic
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2492 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:31: <ais523> Vorpal: it looks nicer than the window staying rigid
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2493 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:44: <ais523> but yes, there's no real need for it
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2494 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:46: <ais523> to me it does
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2495 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:16:03:57: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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2496 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:26:02: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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2497 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:32:26: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2498 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:17:32:52: <ais523> hi
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2499 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:24:36: <ais523> use Gregor's neural network?
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2500 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:25:55: <elliott> ais523: No.
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2501 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:41:42: <ais523> is there even any point?
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2502 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:19:46:39: <elliott> ais523: ?
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2503 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:26: <ais523> fizzie: someone tried to run it and complained that it didn't work
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2504 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:28: <ais523> `file canary
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2505 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:18:38: <ais523> `cat canary
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2506 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:19:29: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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2507 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-21.txt:22:21:30: <nortti> it makes Phantom_Hoover and ais523 quit
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2508 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:41:07: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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2509 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:42:21: <elliott> hi ais523
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2510 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:12:42:45: <ais523> hi elliott
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2511 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:14:23:36: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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2512 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:55:20: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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2513 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:56:12: <ais523> yay, teaching over for the academic year
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2514 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:15:56:17: <ais523> not counting potential marks entry or exam marking
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2515 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:00:08: <elliott> hi ais523
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2516 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:00:12: <ais523> hi elliott
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2517 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:02:32: <ais523> real men made their computer out of transistors, and have their boot code hardcoded from memory
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2518 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:06: <ais523> is spit n-type or p-type?
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2519 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:15: <ais523> it's mostly made of water and protein, right?
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2520 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:05:43: <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, real men spit arsenic and boron.
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2521 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:09:05: <ais523> the problem is that such discussions collapse into self-parody too quickly
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2522 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:09:13: <ais523> and are indistinguishable from it even if they aren't meant to be
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2523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:10:20: <ais523> yes
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2524 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:07: <elliott> ais523: Hey, should I add <ref> and <math>?
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2525 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:24: <ais523> elliott: depends on if you think anyone would use them
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2526 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:36:35: <ais523> also, why not zzo38's custom mathy thing?
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2527 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:42:10: <elliott> ais523: Because zzo38's custom mathy thing (a) needs heavy modifications to be usable on anybody else's computer by his own admission, (b) obviously doesn't support standard LaTeX syntax, and (c) has no MediaWiki extension, he wants me to write the extension for him to use it.
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2528 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:45:14: <elliott> ais523: I think <ref> would be useful, since there are quite a few articles with citations done in a rather ad-hoc style (mostly the theoretical CS stuff).
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2529 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:16:45:39: <ais523> perhaps
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2530 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:23:51: <ais523> so what are these esocolor things?
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2531 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:24:58: <elliott> ais523: We're painting fizzie's house.
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2532 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:25:09: <ais523> not sure I believe that
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2533 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:25:40: <ais523> elliott: does anyone /really/ believe the world is piecewise-linear?
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2534 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:26:57: <elliott> ais523: Like, God, man.
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2535 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:17:49:46: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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2536 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:06:02: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
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2537 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:12:40: <elliott> hi ais523
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2538 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:12:49: <ais523> `
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2539 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:15: <olsner> `? ais523
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2540 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:18: <HackEgo> ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2541 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:30: <ais523> gah, HackEgo has ruined our convention
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2542 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:13:35: <ais523> which shows how long ago we last tried to use it…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2543 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:14:00: <ais523> come to think of it, "not found" is not really a sensible error message for trying to exec the null string
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2544 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:42:10: -!- ais523_ has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2545 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:45:24: -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2546 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:19:55:03: -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2547 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:57:26: <ais523> btw, that gzip file that got mangled by phpBB? the person sent me the original, it was a standard gzip file after all
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2548 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:58:04: <ais523> it had a lot of NULs after the first three bytes, which presumably phpBB deleted, which is why we couldn't parse it from that
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2549 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:59:31: <ais523> the zeros came very early
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2550 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:21:59:34: <ais523> so they'd have shifted all the bytes from then on out of place
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2551 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:05:51: <ais523> oh, mtime was indeed 0, in that case
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2552 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:34: <ais523> wow, advert I just saw: "3 easy steps: 1. Click to download. 2. Run the .exe file to install. 3. Enjoy the fun content!" together with a large Download button, five stars, the company name, some version compatibility information, and a large tick for some reason
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2553 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:42: <ais523> no indication on what the product actually was…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2554 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:22:39:54: <ais523> what are the odds it /isn't/ malware?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2555 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:01:44: <ais523> Sgeo: are you an idiot now?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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parents:
diff changeset
2556 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:01:52: <Sgeo> ais523, I'd like to think not.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2557 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-22.txt:23:48:08: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2558 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:25:44: -!- ais523 has joined #esoteric.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2559 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:27:19: <elliott> ais523: Speaking of, I might sit down and spec out Johny sometime.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2560 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:03: <ais523> elliott: heh, have you found a language that the name fits yet?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2561 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:16: <ais523> oerjan: does INTERCAL count? that's not quite the same thing
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2562 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:28:38: <elliott> ais523: Well, no. But I figure a language that doesn't fit the name is just as good.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2563 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:31:20: <ais523> early mechanical typewriters didn't even have 0 or 1 keys, you were meant to use O and I
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2564 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:31:59: <ais523> elliott: a reddit comment explained the invention of the backslash a while back
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2565 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:32:10: <ais523> apparently, it was to make it possible to type /\ and \/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2566 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:32:47: <elliott> ais523: ISTR that too
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2567 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:33:37: <ais523> ion: yes
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2568 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:34:57: <elliott> ais523: kick ion
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2569 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:23: <ais523> ion: don't spell elliott's name, he doesn't like it and there's no excuse given the existence of tab-complete
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2570 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:38: <ais523> (although, I find it hard to spell elliott any other way even when it's correct, having known this elliott so long)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2571 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:35:53: <Mathnerd314> ais523: what about elly?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2572 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:07: <ais523> Mathnerd314: that's not a common abbreviation for "elliott"
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2573 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:09: <elliott> ion: ais523 was preceded by 522 ais'.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2574 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:26: <ais523> it is a moderately common name, but it's short for something else
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2575 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:28: <ais523> I forget what offhand
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2576 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:36:50: <Mathnerd314> ais523: my point was it makes tab-complete difficult
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2577 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:37:38: <ais523> ah, I didn't notice she was in /here/
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2578 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:37:43: <ais523> (I know her from another channel)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2579 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:38:18: <Mathnerd314> ais523: and which channel would that be, or is it classified?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2580 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:38:44: <ais523> Mathnerd314: ##crawl-dev
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2581 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:39:46: <elliott> ion: You won't get along with ais523, then!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2582 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:39:59: <ais523> I /want/ to like Crawl, but can't
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2583 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:07: <ais523> every now and then I start playing it again, and remember why I don't like it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2584 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:45: <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: devs are taking it in the wrong direction
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2585 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:40:56: <elliott> Well, also what ais523 has told me.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2586 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:07: <ais523> there seems to be some sort of crusade against tactics
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2587 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:16: <ais523> and the game tends to tend in the direction of obfuscating complexity
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2588 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:41:25: <ais523> security through obscurity makes no sense in a roguelike…
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2589 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:28: <ais523> oerjan: interesting fact: while I have written several MiniMAX interps, I have never dared to run any of them
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2590 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:35: <ais523> also, does class="plain" on the table work?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2591 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:43:39: <elliott> ais523: No.
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2592 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:48:59: <oerjan> ais523: nice synchronicity - it was your MiniMax table that convinced me that something like plainpres was needed :)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2593 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:19: <ais523> oerjan: I saw you editing MiniMAX, and being unsure why you were doing so
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2594 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:21: <ais523> have you figured it out yet?
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2595 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:49:31: <ais523> (I was commenting on MiniMAX /because/ you were editing it)
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2596 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:27: <oerjan> ais523: i just thought i should add a proper table, after doing so for the TC proof
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2597 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:45: <ais523> why you were editing it
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2598 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:50:50: <oerjan> ais523: also i hit the latter by pressing random
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2599 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:20:51:14: <elliott> ais523: he was unsure why he started his formatting because it's a lot of work, presumably
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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diff changeset
2600 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-23.txt:21:57:22: -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2601 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:12:32:58: <elliott> @tell ais523 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4471
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2602 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:14:52:33: <elliott> @tell ais523 Stop appearing where I least expect you!
18cae3383e57 <elliott> run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste
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2603 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-24.txt:17:48:45: <elliott> `run grep ais523 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2012-03-??.txt | paste