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<hppavilion[1]> learn sbeef is the culinary name for meat from scow
author | HackBot |
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date | Tue, 05 Jul 2016 03:27:54 +0000 |
parents | 61656b4a154a |
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2005-03-03.txt:16:09:29: -!- {^Raven^} has joined #esoteric. 2005-03-03.txt:16:10:20: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-03.txt:17:21:52: <{^Raven^}> does anyone know of any games written inbrainfuck 2005-03-03.txt:18:00:18: <{^Raven^}> darn 2005-03-03.txt:18:00:29: <{^Raven^}> i was hoping to see some examples 2005-03-03.txt:18:00:46: <{^Raven^}> guess i'm gonna have to write em myself :( 2005-03-03.txt:18:01:31: <{^Raven^}> the supercoder looks like the perfect keyboard for a spoon based machine tho 2005-03-03.txt:20:58:45: <{^Raven^}> yeah, what seems to be most awkward is interpreters geting input a line at a time 2005-03-03.txt:20:58:49: <{^Raven^}> instead of a char at a time 2005-03-03.txt:20:59:01: <{^Raven^}> would make space-invaders difficult 2005-03-03.txt:21:01:46: <{^Raven^}> might have to wait until other projects get started 2005-03-03.txt:21:02:58: <{^Raven^}> i'm planning a cgi-aware BF-vm next 2005-03-03.txt:21:03:26: <{^Raven^}> when i remember how to program in C again 2005-03-03.txt:21:04:19: <{^Raven^}> i'll taka a peek 2005-03-03.txt:21:15:01: <{^Raven^}> hey, that's pretty impressive 2005-03-03.txt:21:26:30: <{^Raven^}> bfvga does line-buffered input. is there a source release :( 2005-03-04.txt:00:12:59: <Keymaker> {^Raven^}: yeah, even the brainfuck is the game designer's right-hand tool, there aren't many games for it, at least i haven't seen 2005-03-04.txt:00:13:59: <{^Raven^}> i've had a play, need to find a nice 'terp 2005-03-04.txt:00:14:47: <{^Raven^}> interpreter, virtual machine type thingy 2005-03-04.txt:00:16:26: <{^Raven^}> got a basic adventure game up and running 2005-03-04.txt:00:16:34: <{^Raven^}> just need to figure out a nice parser 2005-03-04.txt:00:17:58: <{^Raven^}> main concern is speed, i can code in as much flexibility as i want but it'll run like a snail on sleeping tablets 2005-03-04.txt:00:20:05: <{^Raven^}> i've thought about some interesting stuff that be possible but my C coding sucks 2005-03-04.txt:00:21:41: <{^Raven^}> it's about as portable as BF so the seem to be stuck together atm 2005-03-04.txt:00:22:41: <{^Raven^}> it would be nice to extend the functionality of BF with an OS abstraction layer without changing the language in any way 2005-03-04.txt:00:23:09: <{^Raven^}> so we could potentially do real file i/o and accept command line options 2005-03-04.txt:00:24:13: <{^Raven^}> i make ppl put an @ at the end of the input file 2005-03-04.txt:00:24:57: <{^Raven^}> it makes my life a bit easier and is less implementation dependant 2005-03-04.txt:00:25:24: <{^Raven^}> that's why I reckon we need an abstraction layer 2005-03-04.txt:00:26:09: <{^Raven^}> thus, you want to check for eof so you do something like [-].+++++., 2005-03-04.txt:00:26:39: <{^Raven^}> 'terp would recognise that as special command number 5 and write back a byte that gives the EOF 2005-03-04.txt:00:27:59: <{^Raven^}> you could implement as many special commands as would be useful 2005-03-04.txt:00:28:12: <{^Raven^}> no, I would keep the language itself exactly the same 2005-03-04.txt:00:28:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: jeffry was working on something like this. 2005-03-04.txt:00:29:09: <{^Raven^}> he's a damn fine coder that guy 2005-03-04.txt:00:29:24: <{^Raven^}> bfasm is so way above my head... 2005-03-04.txt:00:30:13: <{^Raven^}> the beauty of an abstraction layer is that once it is stable, the main interpreter could be written for any esoteric language 2005-03-04.txt:00:30:58: <{^Raven^}> do you know if jeffry is still working on his idea for one? 2005-03-04.txt:00:31:55: <{^Raven^}> it's good to know that more than just me might find it useful 2005-03-04.txt:00:33:50: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: afaik, he's working on it as a full-fledged operating system. 2005-03-04.txt:00:34:03: <{^Raven^}> oh wow! 2005-03-04.txt:00:35:07: <{^Raven^}> an abstraction layer providing at least similiar functionality to the C library 2005-03-04.txt:00:37:07: <{^Raven^}> it looks like program to write a bootdisk for an esoteric OS 2005-03-04.txt:00:38:07: <{^Raven^}> did you like my site Keymaker? this is kindof freaky buy i spotted you in my logs... 2005-03-04.txt:00:38:30: <{^Raven^}> of all the IPs in all the worls and that kind of stuff 2005-03-04.txt:00:38:36: <{^Raven^}> jonripley.com 2005-03-04.txt:00:38:55: <{^Raven^}> thx 2005-03-04.txt:00:39:46: <{^Raven^}> do you know if Daniel C ever pops on here? 2005-03-04.txt:00:40:10: <{^Raven^}> waiting? 2005-03-04.txt:00:40:50: <{^Raven^}> ok...now i'm confused 2005-03-04.txt:00:41:30: <{^Raven^}> ahh 2005-03-04.txt:00:47:45: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: found the BOS section of his site and it does look interesting, would have never thought of implementing low level disk access and stuff 2005-03-04.txt:00:51:21: <{^Raven^}> 1am 2005-03-04.txt:00:51:23: <{^Raven^}> nite 2005-03-04.txt:20:10:37: <{^Raven^}> it is almost as if you willed it 2005-03-04.txt:20:10:52: <{^Raven^}> to happen 2005-03-04.txt:20:11:36: <{^Raven^}> when you mentioned wanting to see him in here yesterday :) 2005-03-04.txt:20:44:26: <{^Raven^}> hullo 2005-03-05.txt:03:30:31: <{^Raven^}> nite peeps 2005-03-05.txt:13:30:53: <{^Raven^}> where does you website live Keymaker? 2005-03-05.txt:13:35:29: <{^Raven^}> how much server space/bandwidth would you need? 2005-03-05.txt:13:36:12: <{^Raven^}> how much file space? 2005-03-05.txt:13:39:03: <{^Raven^}> 1 megabyte is 1024Kb 2005-03-05.txt:13:39:08: <{^Raven^}> in real money 2005-03-05.txt:13:41:25: <{^Raven^}> bracketcommadotbracket.org aka [,.] ? 2005-03-05.txt:13:42:20: <{^Raven^}> nice esoteric name and it translates to a typewriter proggy 2005-03-05.txt:13:44:01: <{^Raven^}> i freely give away that domain name idea 2005-03-05.txt:13:47:15: <{^Raven^}> i like nested-loops.org 2005-03-05.txt:13:48:03: <{^Raven^}> or without the dash. nestedloops.org, easier to remember 2005-03-05.txt:13:50:05: <{^Raven^}> AKAIK that's the only meaning 2005-03-05.txt:13:53:31: <{^Raven^}> both are availiable, go for the one most visually appealing to you 2005-03-05.txt:13:53:52: <{^Raven^}> i'd like to see a for-profit BrainFuck company ;) that would be something 2005-03-05.txt:20:03:19: -!- {^Raven^} has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2005-03-05.txt:20:04:24: -!- {^Raven^} has joined #esoteric. 2005-03-05.txt:21:58:13: <{^Raven^}> there are hundreds of BrainFuck tutorials that I have seen on the net. unfortunately it is justthe same 2 tutorials repeated ad nauseum 2005-03-05.txt:22:00:24: <{^Raven^}> theoretically it has been proved that any possible program can be coded in BF. i have a few dozen book here that give examples of how to do lots of interesting things in various machine languages 2005-03-05.txt:22:01:20: <{^Raven^}> maybe someone with the coding ability could create something similiar for BF 2005-03-05.txt:22:02:02: <{^Raven^}> z80 machine code for humans, arm the dabhand guide, 6502 assembly routines (600pages) 2005-03-05.txt:22:02:14: <{^Raven^}> and similiar 2005-03-05.txt:22:03:24: <{^Raven^}> i wonder if it would be possible to target gcc to cross-compile to bfasm which could then be comiled to BF 2005-03-05.txt:22:04:33: <{^Raven^}> gcc is a C compiler, you can setup different configurations so that it will compile code for whichever system you fancy 2005-03-05.txt:22:05:21: <{^Raven^}> yup, preferably calamari's bfasm 2005-03-05.txt:22:05:51: <{^Raven^}> it would be seriously freaky if someone managed to pull it off 2005-03-05.txt:22:06:13: <{^Raven^}> a nice high-level language that can be compiled to brainfuck 2005-03-05.txt:22:07:16: <{^Raven^}> kind of defeats the point of programming in pure machine language (aka +-,.[]<>) but IIRC they were using assembly language (aka bfasm) in the fifties 2005-03-05.txt:22:08:30: <{^Raven^}> hey there 2005-03-05.txt:22:09:58: <{^Raven^}> hehe, everyone writes those, even i have - but at least mine is written in brainfuck 2005-03-05.txt:22:10:52: <{^Raven^}> i wouldn't be suprised if he wasn;t already working on it 2005-03-05.txt:22:14:16: <{^Raven^}> IMHO we all need to find a way to take esoteric languages to new heights of usefulness 2005-03-05.txt:22:14:54: <lament> {^Raven^}: usefulness? 2005-03-05.txt:22:15:19: <{^Raven^}> a project i'm working on 2005-03-05.txt:22:16:05: <{^Raven^}> which is designed for all esoteric languages, not just brainfuck 2005-03-05.txt:22:16:26: <lament> {^Raven^}: explain 2005-03-05.txt:22:17:06: <{^Raven^}> hmmm, i wonder if i should commit myself, i know it's possible but it's still in the design stage 2005-03-05.txt:22:17:46: <{^Raven^}> i hope to introduce a paradigm shift in the way esoteric languages can be used 2005-03-05.txt:22:18:32: <{^Raven^}> all my BF programs are already executable on the Unix command line which was the first step 2005-03-05.txt:22:19:15: <{^Raven^}> ./HelloWorld.b and I already have pure BrainFuck scripts running in my CGI bin 2005-03-05.txt:22:19:23: <{^Raven^}> but IMHO that's not enough 2005-03-05.txt:22:20:49: <{^Raven^}> i want to be able to generate a dynamic website in BF without needing mod_bf 2005-03-05.txt:22:22:03: <{^Raven^}> mod_bf is an apache module which you can use to make dynamic sites, you can pass parameters in the URL which are passed as input to a BF program 2005-03-05.txt:22:22:06: <{^Raven^}> i don't use it 2005-03-05.txt:22:22:54: <{^Raven^}> it has some severe security implications 2005-03-05.txt:22:23:57: <{^Raven^}> PHP would probably work fine, same with perl/java/etc but I'd prefer to use plain BF scripts 2005-03-05.txt:22:24:15: <{^Raven^}> with the #!/usr/bin/bf header - of course :) 2005-03-05.txt:22:25:04: <{^Raven^}> hi calamari 2005-03-05.txt:22:41:18: <{^Raven^}> nite 2005-03-05.txt:22:45:31: <{^Raven^}> calamari, i like your site, you've got some really interesting stuff there 2005-03-05.txt:22:47:49: <{^Raven^}> BFASM is a very impressive piece of software 2005-03-05.txt:22:52:36: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: is calamari's EsoAPI like what you had in mind? 2005-03-05.txt:22:52:54: <{^Raven^}> similiar but completely different 2005-03-05.txt:22:56:12: <{^Raven^}> the API interface will be almost the same but with a different range of functionality 2005-03-05.txt:22:57:01: <{^Raven^}> more suited to day-to-day programming tasks 2005-03-05.txt:22:59:11: <{^Raven^}> and I want to make something that can be applied to every esoteric language, including malbolge - but i'll not be writing the demonstration code for that one 2005-03-05.txt:23:01:09: <{^Raven^}> both could be available 2005-03-05.txt:23:03:59: <{^Raven^}> with the free availiability of interpreter source code adding functionality to any interpreter should be trivial 2005-03-05.txt:23:08:39: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's still not quite general enough for my taste. 2005-03-05.txt:23:18:16: <{^Raven^}> what are you thinking of? 2005-03-05.txt:23:24:54: <{^Raven^}> that is exactly what i am coding 2005-03-05.txt:23:35:38: <{^Raven^}> now i've said it in public i hope no one steals it 2005-03-05.txt:23:35:39: <{^Raven^}> :) 2005-03-05.txt:23:36:20: <{^Raven^}> although you could say i took the idea from calamari, i found EsoAPI afterwards 2005-03-05.txt:23:41:17: <{^Raven^}> I'd like to make the OS abstraction layer as clear as possible. The languages using it are obscure enough already 2005-03-06.txt:00:01:48: <{^Raven^}> yay...it works :) 2005-03-06.txt:00:35:41: <{^Raven^}> >+>++++++++++<[<[-].+.+.>>.<+] prints hex of numbers 1 to 255 2005-03-06.txt:00:37:30: <{^Raven^}> called project easel atm 2005-03-06.txt:00:41:49: <{^Raven^}> it is bf 2005-03-06.txt:00:42:27: <{^Raven^}> OS abstraction layer for esoteric languages 2005-03-06.txt:01:06:25: <{^Raven^}> lament: was that to me or arke? 2005-03-06.txt:01:06:34: <arke> lament: do you mean me or raven? 2005-03-06.txt:01:06:48: <{^Raven^}> rotflmao 2005-03-06.txt:01:07:01: <arke> ARKE OR RAVEN 2005-03-06.txt:01:08:03: * {^Raven^} 's brain turns to mush 2005-03-06.txt:01:08:15: <arke> lament: please say a name, ARKE or RAVEN 2005-03-06.txt:01:08:29: <lament> a name, ARKE or RAVEN 2005-03-06.txt:01:08:47: <{^Raven^}> ...well this is an esoteric chat room after all... 2005-03-06.txt:01:43:41: <{^Raven^}> >.++.--.<.+.-.>[-]>++++++++[<+++++++++++++>-]<.<.++.-.+[->.<].[-]++++++++++. 2005-03-06.txt:01:43:56: <{^Raven^}> display 'h' if the -h switch has been passed on the command line :D 2005-03-06.txt:02:19:18: <{^Raven^}> sweet :) 2005-03-06.txt:02:19:28: <{^Raven^}> I've knocked up a page for you to link to 2005-03-06.txt:02:19:30: <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/easel/ 2005-03-06.txt:02:22:35: <{^Raven^}> this is pretty darn cool! :D 2005-03-06.txt:02:22:36: <{^Raven^}> thx 2005-03-06.txt:02:23:38: <{^Raven^}> That's an interesting question 2005-03-06.txt:02:25:32: <{^Raven^}> under Easel there are currently 65280 possible unique API calls 2005-03-06.txt:02:29:23: <{^Raven^}> in theory it is possibe, but whatever the final depth is, I would like all API sections to be as deep. 2005-03-06.txt:02:30:23: <{^Raven^}> I could allocate EsoAPI a sub-block of calls but I don't know that I can add low level disk access and keep portability 2005-03-06.txt:02:32:25: <{^Raven^}> yes, ideally I would like to have them as one specification 2005-03-06.txt:02:33:57: <{^Raven^}> lets say that I if I use banks 1-9, banks 10-19 could be reserved for the main development team and banks 20-255 would be allocated on a block-by-block basis to different vendors 2005-03-06.txt:02:35:09: <{^Raven^}> or even make the vendor blocks another level deep, so each vendor had 65536 calls available 2005-03-06.txt:02:35:21: <{^Raven^}> that would be easy to cod 2005-03-06.txt:02:35:23: <{^Raven^}> e 2005-03-06.txt:02:38:17: <{^Raven^}> hmmm, this could work... If the user is boots into BFOS they have calamari's current EsoAPI calls available. If they then issue API call 00h 09h it switches to the easel API (now part of EsoAPI) 2005-03-06.txt:02:39:26: <{^Raven^}> and from Easel (which they are now in) they issue 00h 09h 01h and that switches them back to the low-level EsoAPI 2005-03-06.txt:02:40:04: <{^Raven^}> but, if a user is running a PESOIX enabled interpreter then they only have the Easel functionality available and all low-level EsoAPI calls are emulated 2005-03-06.txt:02:40:10: <{^Raven^}> does that make any sense? 2005-03-06.txt:02:41:46: <{^Raven^}> calamari, your comments would be appreciated 2005-03-06.txt:02:42:37: <{^Raven^}> And it would mean that there is only one PESOIX standard - EsoAPI - if calamari lets me use the name 2005-03-06.txt:02:42:44: <{^Raven^}> lol 2005-03-06.txt:03:04:18: <{^Raven^}> that would allow an infinite number of different PESOIX layers 2005-03-06.txt:03:06:09: <{^Raven^}> so...all PESOIX conpliant tools start up in calamari's layer, 2005-03-06.txt:03:07:07: <{^Raven^}> and then issue a dialect switching command to switch specifications. 2005-03-06.txt:03:08:38: <{^Raven^}> thx :D 2005-03-06.txt:03:10:00: <{^Raven^}> not any more 2005-03-06.txt:03:10:58: <{^Raven^}> load the source code into a BBC BASIC to see a high level language doing a good impression of an esoteric one :) 2005-03-06.txt:03:15:19: <{^Raven^}> i arbitarily nominate 00h 09h xxh where xx is the dialect ID, seems logical as 09h is the next free EsoAPI call 2005-03-06.txt:03:17:07: <{^Raven^}> 00h 09h 00h would select to the low-level API. 2005-03-06.txt:03:19:03: <{^Raven^}> Hopefully...00h 09h 01h would select Easel, with Easel functionality (hopefully) being a requirement for all PESOIX compliant tools. This is to allow all PESOIX tools to have the same basic functionality. 2005-03-06.txt:03:25:26: <{^Raven^}> i have added some more info to the site 2005-03-06.txt:03:25:46: <{^Raven^}> bedtime methinks, need to sleep 2005-03-06.txt:03:25:47: <{^Raven^}> nite 2005-03-06.txt:03:30:24: <{^Raven^}> this looks like the start of something interesting 2005-03-06.txt:05:47:33: <{^Raven^}> The PESOIX site is looking great and is full of good ideas 2005-03-06.txt:07:45:53: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-06.txt:07:47:31: <{^Raven^}> have completed a working PESOIX source as per the cpressey's specs 2005-03-06.txt:07:56:46: <{^Raven^}> yeah, every system has it's own way of doing it 2005-03-06.txt:07:56:58: <{^Raven^}> it's 8am here, couldn;t sleep.../ 2005-03-06.txt:07:57:09: <calamari> {^Raven^}: didn't realize you wrote a etxt adventure in bf.. very cool :) 2005-03-06.txt:07:57:56: <{^Raven^}> thanks 2005-03-06.txt:07:58:25: <{^Raven^}> there are too many ways that an EOF can happen 2005-03-06.txt:07:59:01: <{^Raven^}> you are probably right calamari 2005-03-06.txt:08:02:08: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: that's a scary bit of code 2005-03-06.txt:08:03:34: <{^Raven^}> here is my pre-alpha http://jonripley.com/easel/pesoix.zip 2005-03-06.txt:08:04:15: <{^Raven^}> it supports EsoAPI at start and will allow bank switching when I add the call, 2005-03-06.txt:08:04:50: <{^Raven^}> pre-alpha EsoAPI, dialect7f and easal are coded for 2005-03-06.txt:08:05:43: <{^Raven^}> it even passes calamari's EsoAPI wrapper test :) 2005-03-06.txt:08:08:40: <{^Raven^}> we won't need an '@' at the end of the file soon...we will be able to call the appropriate PESOIX function to check EOF :) 2005-03-06.txt:08:10:00: <{^Raven^}> ummm... 2005-03-06.txt:08:11:17: <{^Raven^}> there are some easel test programs in the above archive 2005-03-06.txt:08:11:33: <{^Raven^}> but they are pre-PESOIX 2005-03-06.txt:08:15:07: <{^Raven^}> EsoAPI will need to be modified to support dialect switching (aka 00h 09h xxh) 2005-03-06.txt:08:17:16: <{^Raven^}> that is unfortunate :( 2005-03-06.txt:08:19:13: <{^Raven^}> yes a value representing TRUE/FALSE should be returned 2005-03-06.txt:08:19:41: <{^Raven^}> yup 2005-03-06.txt:08:20:05: <{^Raven^}> all PESOIX compliant software starts in BOS mode 2005-03-06.txt:08:22:48: <{^Raven^}> from a cold start you are already in EsoAPI 2005-03-06.txt:08:23:06: <{^Raven^}> yup 2005-03-06.txt:08:23:44: <{^Raven^}> cpressy, take a peek at http://jonripley.com/easel/pesoix.zip 2005-03-06.txt:08:25:51: <{^Raven^}> if you do 00 09 00 from EsoAPI nothing much will happen atm 2005-03-06.txt:08:27:54: <{^Raven^}> There will be a modified wrapper for Easel programs which checks for both dialects being available 2005-03-06.txt:08:29:09: <{^Raven^}> but after you have checked the all required dialects are available, you can switch between them at will 2005-03-06.txt:08:35:33: <{^Raven^}> terminating execution with an error on a bad call would work 2005-03-06.txt:08:36:31: <{^Raven^}> that needs to be worked on 2005-03-06.txt:08:37:01: <{^Raven^}> cpressey has done an impressive job with the specs so far 2005-03-06.txt:08:38:05: <{^Raven^}> ahh, that will change 2005-03-06.txt:08:39:08: <{^Raven^}> i am going to modify Easel to return results via the i/o channels 2005-03-06.txt:08:40:15: <{^Raven^}> the main sticking point is that the EsoAPI installation check should return via i/o instead of trying to set a cell 2005-03-06.txt:08:40:40: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: that's a bit more reasonable, yeah 2005-03-06.txt:08:43:18: <{^Raven^}> i feel we are stuck inside the BOS bootstrap 2005-03-06.txt:08:43:40: <calamari> Raven: is there a bug? 2005-03-06.txt:08:45:32: <{^Raven^}> you O the installation check, the check code puts the result at the head of the input buffer, you read that single character from the input stream and 2005-03-06.txt:08:45:47: <{^Raven^}> no return required 2005-03-06.txt:08:49:20: <{^Raven^}> and on systems where esobrace will not work you use a modified interpreter 2005-03-06.txt:08:49:41: <{^Raven^}> i am working on the modified interpreter side of things 2005-03-06.txt:08:51:18: <{^Raven^}> but that requires cygwin and i'd prefer the user not to have to download extra software. esobrace will never work on RISC OS, not sure about Macs 2005-03-06.txt:08:51:57: <{^Raven^}> that's where the modified interpreter comes into it's own, it will run on any system that a C compiler can target. 2005-03-06.txt:08:52:20: <{^Raven^}> no fork(ing) way - npi 2005-03-06.txt:08:52:50: <{^Raven^}> only for the first draft 2005-03-06.txt:08:55:06: <{^Raven^}> to add PESOIX into any interpreter requires 3 new lines of code and 2 minor changes 2005-03-06.txt:08:56:19: <{^Raven^}> #include "pesoix.h", pesoix_initialise, pesoix_finalise and changing getchar/putchar with pesoix_getchat and pesoix_putchar 2005-03-06.txt:08:59:24: <{^Raven^}> calamari, if there was an equivalent to command.com within BOS then you could support Easel 2005-03-06.txt:08:59:25: <{^Raven^}> nite 2005-03-06.txt:09:00:59: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-06.txt:09:01:40: <{^Raven^}> bed sounds like a good idea even tho it's 9am here 2005-03-06.txt:09:04:23: <{^Raven^}> bye all 2005-03-06.txt:09:04:26: <{^Raven^}> bye me 2005-03-06.txt:09:04:32: <calamari> cya raven, nice meeting you 2005-03-06.txt:09:04:37: <{^Raven^}> same here 2005-03-06.txt:09:04:57: <{^Raven^}> yup...you missed all the fun 2005-03-06.txt:09:05:29: <{^Raven^}> see ya 2005-03-06.txt:15:27:56: -!- [^Raven^] has joined #esoteric. 2005-03-06.txt:15:44:34: -!- {^Raven^} has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2005-03-06.txt:16:23:44: -!- [^Raven^] is now known as {^Raven^}. 2005-03-06.txt:21:30:06: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-06.txt:21:30:57: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: http://jonripley.com/easel/ep_specs.txt, contains a write up of my ideas for PESOIX specification so far, please read and comment. Thanks 2005-03-07.txt:06:07:14: <cpressey> {^Raven^}: will do 2005-03-07.txt:10:28:37: <{^Raven^}> thx 2005-03-07.txt:14:35:19: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: minor revison to stream IDs 2005-03-07.txt:14:35:56: <{^Raven^}> cpressey: updated version online, Draft Easel API is at http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt 2005-03-07.txt:16:30:04: <{^Raven^}> does any one know of any references to use of floating point numbers in esoteric languages? 2005-03-07.txt:17:21:25: <Keymaker> {^Raven^}: fl0at is evlil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2005-03-07.txt:17:22:34: <{^Raven^}> you can;t tell me that you wouldn't want to floating point arithmetic in, lets say, malbolge :) 2005-03-07.txt:17:23:02: <{^Raven^}> any thing that I can work out portable C code for is possible 2005-03-07.txt:17:23:18: <{^Raven^}> Beep! is the current limit 2005-03-07.txt:17:24:06: <{^Raven^}> yup 2005-03-07.txt:17:24:45: <{^Raven^}> :) i've just put the latest version of the API on my site 2005-03-07.txt:17:25:43: <{^Raven^}> any comments, suggestions are appreciated 2005-03-07.txt:17:26:32: <{^Raven^}> thx :D 2005-03-07.txt:17:29:03: <{^Raven^}> i know, it also opens up the possibilities of writing a virus or some other malware :( 2005-03-07.txt:17:30:11: <{^Raven^}> i am wondering about making the API request user confirmation of file deletion and system calls 2005-03-07.txt:17:32:11: <{^Raven^}> question is, should it ask by default or only if an -requestconfirmation (type) switch is given on the command line? 2005-03-07.txt:17:34:22: <{^Raven^}> sounds like a very good idea, i will add a -noconfirmation (type) switch to turn off this for known safe programs. It will come in handy for shell scripts where user can specify #!/usr/bin/whatever -safe on the first line 2005-03-07.txt:17:37:20: <{^Raven^}> lol, how about opening a file for writing/update also being considered unsafe? 2005-03-07.txt:17:41:42: <{^Raven^}> same thing about dangerous stuff being possible goes for all mainstream programming/script languages 2005-03-07.txt:17:42:37: <{^Raven^}> I wonder if Norton|M'Coffee will ever need to add a detction code for an esoteric nasty ! 2005-03-07.txt:17:43:08: <{^Raven^}> lol 2005-03-07.txt:17:48:31: <{^Raven^}> that's the plan now 2005-03-07.txt:17:50:44: <{^Raven^}> PESOIX does not support memory cells, but it's simple to do 2005-03-07.txt:17:51:37: <{^Raven^}> (set value)>[-].+.-..<. 2005-03-07.txt:20:58:24: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-08.txt:00:10:52: -!- {^Raven^} has quit ("Leaving"). 2005-03-08.txt:00:17:18: -!- {^Raven^} has joined #esoteric. 2005-03-08.txt:15:48:24: <{^Raven^}> hi 2005-03-08.txt:15:59:53: <{^Raven^}> looks like an interesting challenge 2005-03-08.txt:19:39:41: <{^Raven^}> what confuses me, if EOF is no change in input stream, wouldn't the number 22 in one of the examples cause early program termination as per the rules? 2005-03-08.txt:19:45:27: <{^Raven^}> k 2005-03-08.txt:19:45:57: <{^Raven^}> yes 2005-03-08.txt:19:47:41: <{^Raven^}> no worries i misread part of the post 2005-03-09.txt:16:14:24: -!- {^Raven^} has joined #esoteric. 2005-03-11.txt:03:52:49: <{^Raven^}> hullo 2005-03-11.txt:03:53:46: <{^Raven^}> got some custom wrappers up and running for EsoAPI and Easel 2005-03-11.txt:03:54:10: <{^Raven^}> your textgen.java came in handy 2005-03-11.txt:03:54:31: <{^Raven^}> the PESOIX interface is pretty much complete, EsoAPI emulation is ready 2005-03-11.txt:03:54:52: <{^Raven^}> and I'm just integrating Easel into the new source tree 2005-03-11.txt:03:55:12: <{^Raven^}> it beat my best algorithm by 30 bytes 2005-03-11.txt:03:56:04: <{^Raven^}> at the moment you are only calculating one hash table at the very start 2005-03-11.txt:03:56:36: <{^Raven^}> if you reach a character where you have a large string of +++ or --- you should think about generating another hash table 2005-03-11.txt:03:59:11: <{^Raven^}> http://jonripley.com/easel/api.txt has the current draft API 2005-03-11.txt:03:59:37: <{^Raven^}> i'm going to add a bunch of useful mathematical functions that are a bit difficult to do in BF 2005-03-11.txt:04:00:41: <{^Raven^}> and it's now 99.999% backwards compaitble, it only breaks on old programs that send the init code as the first output 2005-03-11.txt:04:00:54: <{^Raven^}> which is none of them AFAIK 2005-03-11.txt:04:02:49: <{^Raven^}> how's BFBasic coming along? 2005-03-11.txt:04:03:33: <{^Raven^}> i know, the main thing I wanted was file I/O and access to environment variables 2005-03-11.txt:04:03:34: <{^Raven^}> :) 2005-03-11.txt:04:04:44: <{^Raven^}> the cheating stuff will be made available for lazy people 2005-03-11.txt:04:04:54: <{^Raven^}> no, fork is not something i have played with 2005-03-11.txt:04:05:59: <{^Raven^}> there will be a system call that you can use to run other apps 2005-03-11.txt:04:07:35: <{^Raven^}> the main nightmare is going to be unbuffered input as each system does it differently 2005-03-11.txt:04:08:10: <{^Raven^}> there's some good GPL code out there I can steal 2005-03-11.txt:04:08:25: <{^Raven^}> one feature I'd love to have is keyboard scanning 2005-03-11.txt:04:08:47: <{^Raven^}> with that you could write arcade games 2005-03-11.txt:04:09:06: <{^Raven^}> it's no fun if the space invaders wait for you to press a key 2005-03-11.txt:04:11:04: <{^Raven^}> i'm planning to add the ability to include a configurable text parser aswell 2005-03-11.txt:04:13:06: <{^Raven^}> hmmm, the code is a bit complex if you are dealing with a large set of valid input 2005-03-11.txt:04:14:06: <{^Raven^}> and the execution time would be beyond most people's patience 2005-03-11.txt:04:20:47: <{^Raven^}> I can't believe that you actually managed to bootstrap BFASM 2005-03-11.txt:04:24:41: <{^Raven^}> I wonder if gcc could be targeed to produce bfasm. That would be interesting but I dread to think though how much code that stdio alone would require. 2005-03-11.txt:04:29:48: <{^Raven^}> possibly would require a specific PESOIX-C dialect implenting the standard C library 2005-03-11.txt:04:30:06: <{^Raven^}> for simplicity Easel may not be C complete 2005-03-11.txt:04:30:51: <{^Raven^}> there are too many things that it doesn't seem to make sense to implemrnt 2005-03-11.txt:04:30:55: <{^Raven^}> :) Ook! [too many lines; stopping]