Mercurial > repo
view paste/paste.19740 @ 1263:75c71e36c7e2
<GreyKnight> pastelogs someone who
author | HackBot |
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date | Fri, 04 Jan 2013 23:25:35 +0000 |
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2011-04-19.txt:18:35:15: <elliott> <crystal-cola> the poeple in #python nput me off of python 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:19: <elliott> <crystal-cola> annoyed 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:22: <elliott> <crystal-cola> this channel sucks 2011-04-19.txt:18:35:30: <elliott> <crystal-cola> people are naturally horrible to each other 2011-04-20.txt:17:12:26: <crystal-cola> baez interview yudkowski 2011-04-20.txt:17:13:21: <crystal-cola> elliott 2011-04-20.txt:17:13:30: <crystal-cola> did you read it 2011-04-20.txt:17:14:02: <crystal-cola> baez asks some interesting questions and yudkowski says "I'm writing a book" 2011-04-20.txt:17:14:21: <crystal-cola> http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/this-weeks-finds-week-311/ 2011-04-20.txt:17:15:23: <crystal-cola> two parts so far but more to come 2011-04-20.txt:17:15:55: <crystal-cola> why is there no transhumanism IRC 2011-04-20.txt:17:21:23: <crystal-cola> whats up 2011-04-20.txt:17:22:00: <crystal-cola> say something interesting 2011-04-20.txt:17:23:25: <crystal-cola> HRUPHRG 2011-04-20.txt:17:24:00: <crystal-cola> this isn't internet relay programming 2011-04-20.txt:17:30:49: <crystal-cola> ;/ 2011-04-20.txt:17:32:03: <crystal-cola> elliott: what's the right thing to do ? 2011-04-20.txt:17:32:25: <crystal-cola> some people think everyone should have fun 2011-04-20.txt:17:39:05: <crystal-cola> so what is the conclusion 2011-04-20.txt:17:39:19: <crystal-cola> I want answers 2011-04-20.txt:17:41:40: <crystal-cola> science is based on the unjustifiable assumption that the world conforms to logic 2011-04-20.txt:17:42:25: <crystal-cola> what wave 2011-04-20.txt:17:42:39: <crystal-cola> I dont know what you mean 2011-04-20.txt:17:43:27: <crystal-cola> bisexual is sexist 2011-04-20.txt:17:44:51: <crystal-cola> bisexuality = mysogeny 2011-04-20.txt:17:46:21: <Gregor> <crystal-cola> bisexuality = mysogeny // lol, I'd love to hear the logic behind this X-D 2011-04-20.txt:17:47:52: <crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:05: <crystal-cola> it is akin to spousal abuse 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:12: <crystal-cola> at a psychosexual level 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:30: <crystal-cola> see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html 2011-04-20.txt:17:48:33: <crystal-cola> bisexuality and feminism 2011-04-20.txt:17:49:02: <crystal-cola> of course I didn't use logic 2011-04-20.txt:17:49:40: <crystal-cola> I don't try to force the false ideals of logic onto everythingg 2011-04-20.txt:17:50:01: <crystal-cola> Gregor: yes but if you read it you'd see that she's completely wrong 2011-04-20.txt:17:50:57: <crystal-cola> There is no reason to use logical or rational thought, the only justification for doing so is because you enjoy it 2011-04-20.txt:17:51:54: <crystal-cola> elliott: Assuming logic is true, then since you used logic your argument is false 2011-04-20.txt:17:52:38: <crystal-cola> I have presented a definitive ``illogical'' refutation of your argument 2011-04-20.txt:17:53:17: <crystal-cola> you're assuming that true = false, that's not provable 2011-04-20.txt:17:53:34: <crystal-cola> So you agree with me 2011-04-20.txt:17:55:12: <crystal-cola> As Ayn Rand said, 2011-04-20.txt:17:56:20: <crystal-cola> bbl 2011-04-20.txt:18:06:59: <crystal-cola> elliott: she said that the universe defines order, so there is no such thing as an unordered universe 2011-04-20.txt:18:08:22: <crystal-cola> why is it meaningless? 2011-04-20.txt:18:09:55: <crystal-cola> "The fake philosophical terminology of mathematical logic has misled philosophers into believing that mathematical logic deals with the truth in the philosophical sense. But this is a mistake. Mathematical logic deals not with the truth, but with the game of truth." - Rota 2011-04-20.txt:18:13:48: <crystal-cola> I don't think it's meaningless. The point is that if you exist in some universe then "order" is whatever you perceive 2011-04-20.txt:18:18:38: <crystal-cola> :/ 2011-04-20.txt:18:21:27: <crystal-cola> hello 2011-04-20.txt:18:24:54: <crystal-cola> Underwater creatures 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:15: <crystal-cola> elliott: why aren't you more interesting 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:24: <crystal-cola> all you say is what im bored 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:45: <crystal-cola> you star 2011-04-20.txt:18:25:46: <crystal-cola> t 2011-04-20.txt:18:26:01: <crystal-cola> forth is boring 2011-04-20.txt:18:42:05: <crystal-cola> hello 2011-04-20.txt:20:17:25: <crystal-cola> These individuals are just as emotionally driven and biased as the rest of us, but they're able to generate more and better reasons to explain why they're right—and so their minds become harder to change. 2011-04-20.txt:20:18:10: <crystal-cola> what do you want 2011-04-20.txt:20:20:34: <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism 2011-04-20.txt:20:21:40: <Phantom_Hoover> 20:20:34: <crystal-cola> Top epidemiologist Jim Carrey claims that vaccinations are causing autism 2011-04-20.txt:21:28:59: <crystal-cola> uh 2011-04-20.txt:21:29:00: <crystal-cola> how is that J 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:29: <crystal-cola> you can but.... Y would you? 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:50: <crystal-cola> haskell doesn't need Y combinators, U is enough due to lazyness 2011-04-20.txt:21:31:59: <crystal-cola> fixed point combinators other than Y 2011-04-20.txt:21:35:17: <crystal-cola> not the one I learned in SICP 2011-04-20.txt:21:35:28: <crystal-cola> Y NOT? 2011-04-20.txt:21:37:04: <crystal-cola> lol 2011-04-20.txt:21:38:05: <crystal-cola> The sad thing is most programmers are already ultrafinitists 2011-04-20.txt:21:38:25: <crystal-cola> using languages that dont admit infinite lists and such 2011-04-20.txt:21:40:54: <crystal-cola> rapido: it's the same as all the other diagonalization arguments 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:01: <crystal-cola> If e : N -> (N -> N) is an evaluator and for every function f : N -> N suppose there was a code c : N such that e c = f then let f n = e n n + 1 and x be the code for f then f x = e x x + 1 = f x + 1 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:05: <crystal-cola> therefore 0 = 1 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:40: <crystal-cola> this is standard diagonalization argument like Turin 2011-04-20.txt:21:48:42: <crystal-cola> g 2011-04-20.txt:21:50:26: <crystal-cola> I guess mathematical proof is not enough to convince you 2011-04-20.txt:21:51:26: <crystal-cola> exponentiation isn't total 2011-04-20.txt:21:52:12: <crystal-cola> it grows too fast 2011-04-20.txt:21:52:25: <crystal-cola> there is no evidece that numbers bigger than 1000000000000 can be exponentiated 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:04: <crystal-cola> logic is relevant to this actually 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:17: <crystal-cola> using logic one finds evidence that exponentiation is different 2011-04-20.txt:21:53:52: <crystal-cola> There is no reason anything should be justified 2011-04-20.txt:21:56:07: <crystal-cola> yeah 2011-04-21.txt:11:33:15: <crystal-cola> multiparadigm programming has failed. 2011-04-21.txt:11:33:22: <crystal-cola> Internet chatrooms are virtual meeting places where attitudes are shared, strengthened and validated. In some channels, hackers of hate can sow misinformation about the plight of programmers elsewhere. In our communities, groups and organisations led by young, dynamic innovators promote separatism by encouraging programmers to define themselves solely in terms of their language. 2011-04-21.txt:11:35:36: <crystal-cola> So, let me end with this. This terrorism is completely indiscriminate and has been thrust upon us. It cannot be ignored or contained; we have to confront it with confidence – confront the ideology that drives it by defeating the ideas that warp so many young minds at their root, and confront the issues of identity that sustain it by standing for a much broader and generous vision of programmers in our servers. 2011-04-21.txt:11:36:26: <crystal-cola> Now, none of this will be easy. We will need stamina, patience and SICP, and it won’t happen at all if we act alone. This ideology crosses not just our continent but all continents, and we are all in this together. At stake are not just algorithms, it is our way of expressing algorithms. That is why this is a challenge we cannot avoid; it is one we must rise to and overcome. Thank you. 2011-04-21.txt:11:44:33: <crystal-cola> elliott: Une société qui s’écroule, une économie qui régresse, des appels à toujours plus de contrôles politiques pour juguler ce déclin, la situation actuelle a un goût de déjà-vu. Bien sûr on pense à la crise 1929. Mais c’est en fait à un livre - et désormais un film - qu’il est fait référence ici. Il s’agit d’Atlas Shrugged (la révolte d'Atlas) de la philosophe russo-américaine Ayn Rand, publié en 1957. Ce 2011-04-21.txt:11:52:58: <crystal-cola> Gauss shaves both himself and Bertrand Russell. 2011-04-21.txt:11:53:58: <crystal-cola> For Gauss, correlation implies causation. 2011-04-21.txt:11:54:34: <crystal-cola> Gauss can trisect an angle with a straightedge and compass. 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:38: <crystal-cola> A Malament–Hogarth (M-H) spacetime, named after David B. Malament and Mark Hogarth, is a relativistic spacetime that possesses the following property: there exists a worldline λ and an event p such that all events along λ are a finite interval in the past of p, but the proper time along λ is infinite 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:51: <crystal-cola> The significance of M-H spacetimes is that they allow for the implementation of certain non-Turing computable tasks (hypercomputation). The idea is for an observer at some event in p's past to set a computer (Turing machine) to work on some task and then have the Turing machine travel on λ, computing for all eternity. Since λ lies in p's past, the Turing machine can signal (a solution) to p at any stage of this never-ending task. Meanwhi 2011-04-21.txt:11:57:58: <crystal-cola> The set-up can be used to decide the halting problem 2011-04-21.txt:11:59:39: <crystal-cola> ? 2011-04-21.txt:12:01:57: <crystal-cola> I wonder if you guys are being boring on purpose to make me go away 2011-04-21.txt:12:03:28: <crystal-cola> idk I was trying to raise some topic for discussion 2011-04-21.txt:12:06:11: <crystal-cola> lol 2011-04-21.txt:12:06:21: <crystal-cola> I thought you were really into Ayn Rand 2011-04-21.txt:14:37:03: <crystal-cola> okay I am putting hoover on igonre 2011-04-21.txt:14:37:54: <crystal-cola> the reason people say ayn rand is so rubbish is because they are scared of her ideas taking hold 2011-04-21.txt:14:39:26: <crystal-cola> no 2011-04-21.txt:14:42:58: <crystal-cola> misogeny 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:18: <crystal-cola> that's a sexist spelling 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:37: <crystal-cola> mysogeny 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:46: <crystal-cola> wymen 2011-04-21.txt:14:43:47: <crystal-cola> etc. 2011-04-21.txt:14:45:04: <crystal-cola> See Miller, Casey, Swift - The Handbook of Non-Sexist Language 2011-04-21.txt:14:46:14: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity" 2011-04-21.txt:14:47:07: <Sgeo__> 10:30:43 <crystal-cola> see here http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.06/4bisexuality.html 2011-04-21.txt:14:48:02: <crystal-cola> lol 2011-04-21.txt:14:48:14: <crystal-cola> elliott: good point 2011-04-21.txt:14:50:39: <crystal-cola> it's subjective 2011-04-21.txt:14:51:01: <crystal-cola> gynder 2011-04-21.txt:14:53:52: <crystal-cola> hitler is a fictional person 2011-04-21.txt:14:53:54: <crystal-cola> he never existed 2011-04-21.txt:14:59:54: <crystal-cola> im wondering if hoover is gonna stop being a dick? 2011-04-21.txt:15:00:28: <crystal-cola> elliott: he was being to me 2011-04-21.txt:15:00:47: <crystal-cola> oh now you are being a dick too 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:16: <crystal-cola> shouldn't have brought it up, ill just put him back on ignore and leave it 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:39: <crystal-cola> you said that being a dick to me is not being a dick 2011-04-21.txt:15:01:48: <crystal-cola> that's how I interpreted it 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:26: <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' 2011-04-21.txt:15:02:44: <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:03: <crystal-cola> answer what? 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:27: <elliott> `addquote <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:28: <HackEgo> 374) <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' <crystal-cola> since apparently you guys don't like me claiming obviously false and absurd claims 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:30: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> oklopol: Nothing is more demeaning to a women than a ``bisexual'' mans distaste and fundamental non-acceptance of her femininity" <<< can you translate this to a language? 2011-04-21.txt:15:03:53: <crystal-cola> oklopol: it's (blatantly) bullshit 2011-04-21.txt:15:04:52: <crystal-cola> what is what? 2011-04-21.txt:15:05:07: <crystal-cola> the quote oklopol pasted 2011-04-21.txt:15:05:32: <crystal-cola> it's just a bunch of garbage some idiot came up with to try to justify a false viewpoint they were entertaining 2011-04-21.txt:15:06:35: <crystal-cola> what do you mean by "a language?"? 2011-04-21.txt:15:07:09: <crystal-cola> I don't think there's any meaning there 2011-04-21.txt:15:08:00: <crystal-cola> you can obviously try to invent some yourself - that's the main reason people say stuff that doesn't mean anything 2011-04-21.txt:15:11:08: <crystal-cola> A starting point might be to speak in abstract syntax rather than text 2011-04-21.txt:15:15:35: <crystal-cola> so any good projects on the go? 2011-04-21.txt:15:15:54: <crystal-cola> like what 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:02: <crystal-cola> I learned a bit about algebraic topology 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:21: <crystal-cola> what does the number of bytes mean? 2011-04-21.txt:15:16:49: <crystal-cola> oh that's cool 2011-04-21.txt:15:17:27: <crystal-cola> I don't know the terminology about automatons 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:18: <crystal-cola> it seems like a good idea but the proofs are horrible 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:26: <crystal-cola> I think it's because the book I looked at sucks 2011-04-21.txt:15:19:59: <crystal-cola> I don't know what you mean? I typed out a bunch of shit then deleted it 2011-04-21.txt:15:20:28: <crystal-cola> it's useless 2011-04-21.txt:15:20:39: <crystal-cola> I learned about cones and direct limits though 2011-04-21.txt:15:21:16: <crystal-cola> you should put lots of old code you've written up on the web 2011-04-21.txt:15:23:03: <crystal-cola> oklopol: so there is a characterization for linear ones already? 2011-04-21.txt:15:23:34: <crystal-cola> wwhat sort of description is it? 2011-04-21.txt:15:24:51: <crystal-cola> did you write a paper on it? 2011-04-21.txt:15:26:01: <crystal-cola> okay 2011-04-21.txt:15:27:20: <crystal-cola> wow 2011-04-21.txt:15:28:28: <crystal-cola> Wow a complexity class that isn't mentioned on complexity zoo 2011-04-21.txt:15:29:05: <crystal-cola> What is FNFA? 2011-04-21.txt:15:30:59: <crystal-cola> why are they equivalent? 2011-04-21.txt:15:31:29: <crystal-cola> ok 2011-04-21.txt:15:34:21: <crystal-cola> it must feel good proving a theorem nobody proved before 2011-04-21.txt:15:36:08: <crystal-cola> that reminds me ... I wonder if Knuths new book is good 2011-04-21.txt:15:36:19: <crystal-cola> it sounded kind of interesting 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:19: <crystal-cola> ###wwww### 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:24: <crystal-cola> # wwww # 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:25: <crystal-cola> # wwww # 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:27: <crystal-cola> ###wwww### 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:33: <crystal-cola> # is dirt and w is water 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:41: <crystal-cola> oh the last line should have been ########## 2011-04-21.txt:15:45:49: <crystal-cola> you can build a house like that 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:06: <crystal-cola> GUYS 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:08: <crystal-cola> GUYS 2011-04-21.txt:15:46:36: <crystal-cola> you can build an under-lake house 2011-04-21.txt:15:50:41: <crystal-cola> arrows are dangeous 2011-04-21.txt:15:51:14: <crystal-cola> oklopol: listen if you get hit by arrows you can die 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:13: <crystal-cola> raining in minecraft?? 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:39: <crystal-cola> I was upset when they stopped wood from burning infinitely 2011-04-21.txt:15:52:49: <crystal-cola> because that was a great party zone for free bacon 2011-04-21.txt:15:53:33: <crystal-cola> u'u 2011-04-21.txt:15:53:34: <crystal-cola> lol 2011-04-21.txt:15:54:36: <crystal-cola> URGH 2011-04-21.txt:15:54:41: <crystal-cola> how do I turn off "Acheivement get!" 2011-04-21.txt:15:55:19: <crystal-cola> I hate it 2011-04-21.txt:15:55:31: <crystal-cola> not me :/ 2011-04-21.txt:16:25:29: <crystal-cola> it's true and disappointing 2011-04-21.txt:16:25:57: <crystal-cola> internet had potential to be so good 2011-04-21.txt:16:26:17: <crystal-cola> now it's all just "download transformes II and mean girls" holywood movies 2011-04-21.txt:16:27:54: <crystal-cola> why isn't there a website (or whatever) for people that want to learn stuff? 2011-04-21.txt:16:28:16: <crystal-cola> if I want to learn quantum mechanics (for example) why can't I find a group of people that also want to? Using the internet 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:02: <crystal-cola> ugh why are people so stupid 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:06: <crystal-cola> everything is extremely simple 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:34: <crystal-cola> this guy is asking how to prove a theorem that he doesn't even know how to state 2011-04-21.txt:16:48:42: <crystal-cola> maybe that's why you can prove it ..? 2011-04-21.txt:18:08:50: <crystal-cola> ##categorytheory - most boring channel ever 2011-04-21.txt:18:14:30: <crystal-cola> im watching this guys videos about how angles and stuff are wrong 2011-04-21.txt:18:14:51: <crystal-cola> http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~norman/views2.htm 2011-04-21.txt:18:15:55: <crystal-cola> heh 2011-04-21.txt:18:16:18: <crystal-cola> yeah anti-axiomatics is kind of a cool view 2011-04-21.txt:18:17:28: <crystal-cola> every does math based on axioms, or at least they think they are doing so 2011-04-21.txt:18:18:18: <crystal-cola> hehe 2011-04-21.txt:18:19:59: <crystal-cola> he has some good points abuot angles 2011-04-21.txt:18:20:09: <crystal-cola> you can basically do trigonometry without calculus 2011-04-21.txt:18:20:14: <crystal-cola> so why not do that? 2011-04-21.txt:18:21:28: <crystal-cola> I mean normal things like angles and trigonometry can only be rigorously done in terms of calculus 2011-04-21.txt:18:21:41: <crystal-cola> but you usally learn these things before learning enough calculus to justify them 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:00: <crystal-cola> so if you are going to do trigonometry at all why do it in that way? Since there is an easier way 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:12: <crystal-cola> one that isn't founded on more advanced mathematics 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:38: <crystal-cola> both can be made completely rigorous 2011-04-21.txt:18:22:49: <crystal-cola> the only difference is how much work it takes 2011-04-21.txt:18:23:42: <oklopol> "<crystal-cola> you can basically do trigonometry without calculus" <<< because it's no fun 2011-04-21.txt:18:25:17: <crystal-cola> oklopol: ?? 2011-04-21.txt:18:26:40: <crystal-cola> what do you mean oklopol 2011-04-21.txt:18:26:56: <crystal-cola> 19:24 < oklopol> crystal-cola: another difference is you're not doing math, eventually you might disagree with someone. 2011-04-21.txt:18:27:05: <crystal-cola> are you talking about axiom-free mathematics? 2011-04-21.txt:18:27:30: <crystal-cola> people can disagree... if at least one of them is wrong 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:01: <crystal-cola> elliott: why do you always talk about finitism? 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:18: <crystal-cola> you always talk about it 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:26: <crystal-cola> yes you do 2011-04-21.txt:18:29:46: <crystal-cola> check the logs if you don't remember 2011-04-21.txt:18:30:30: <crystal-cola> elliott: You talk about finitism all the time, I wonder why because you're obviously not actually a finitist 2011-04-21.txt:18:30:39: <crystal-cola> elliott: Basically you're trolling. Why do you keep doing it? 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:23: <crystal-cola> 14:19:52 <elliott> I'm starting the Order of Ultrafinitist Programmers, we code exclusively in lookup tables 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:26: <crystal-cola> yesterday 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:34: <crystal-cola> You brought up finitism 2011-04-21.txt:18:31:46: <crystal-cola> elliott: because I proved you wrong? Okay 2011-04-21.txt:18:32:34: <crystal-cola> elliott: People are having a serious discussion about metamathematics. Stop telling me off for not doing anything wrong and trolling about finitism and just generally being an ass. 2011-04-21.txt:18:35:13: <crystal-cola> elliott: wrong 2011-04-21.txt:18:36:58: <crystal-cola> what 2011-04-21.txt:18:37:15: <crystal-cola> okay I'll /ignore you too 2011-04-21.txt:18:37:24: <crystal-cola> stops us arguing as a bonus 2011-04-21.txt:18:53:57: <crystal-cola> I never got introduced to anything rigorous in my math courses 2011-04-21.txt:18:54:19: <crystal-cola> which is fine, I am able to supply my own rigor 2011-04-21.txt:18:54:32: <crystal-cola> but I do think "normal" students cannot 2011-04-21.txt:18:56:00: <crystal-cola> oklopol: Nobody ever taught me what a function was 2011-04-21.txt:18:56:22: <crystal-cola> oklopol: I think you are very lucky to have been taught things properly - I am a sample of 1 but I don't think it's normal 2011-04-21.txt:19:01:56: <crystal-cola> that was weird 2011-04-21.txt:19:02:03: <crystal-cola> someone disagreed with me in #haskell and I didn't get banned 2011-04-21.txt:19:03:16: <crystal-cola> oklopol: yeah seriously I think you just go to an exceptionally good university 2011-04-21.txt:19:03:26: <crystal-cola> normally none of this stuff gets talked about 2011-04-21.txt:19:06:32: <crystal-cola> it doesn't really matter how math is taught 2011-04-21.txt:19:06:43: <crystal-cola> if you're smart you'll probably prove good theorems no matter what 2011-04-21.txt:19:13:34: <crystal-cola> category of finite sets 2011-04-21.txt:19:14:10: <crystal-cola> that definition of infinite set works without choice 2011-04-21.txt:19:15:56: <crystal-cola> anyway axiom-free mathematics is to just brush aside since axiomatization is "solved". Look at Eulers papers 2011-04-21.txt:19:20:01: <crystal-cola> "subsets of N" is a difficult notionn 2011-04-21.txt:19:20:27: <crystal-cola> consider permutations of N, is a subset of N just the first n elements of a permutation? 2011-04-21.txt:19:21:35: <crystal-cola> well even in the finite case it's awkward becuase of "wild" permutations 2011-04-21.txt:19:23:16: <crystal-cola> http://qchu.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/i-dont-trust-uncountable-sets/ 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:17: <crystal-cola> I guess one of the difficulties is, let S be a subset of N then consider the obvious bijection 1 -> first element of S, 2 -> second element, ... 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:32: <crystal-cola> almost all infinite sets S lead to functions that grow so fast... 2011-04-21.txt:19:27:44: <crystal-cola> much faster than busy beaver 2011-04-21.txt:19:28:16: <crystal-cola> fast growing functions are a bitch, ever studied logic? 2011-04-21.txt:19:28:52: <crystal-cola> they're just really difficult 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:09: <crystal-cola> the rate of growth of a function is the sort of thing you need stronger and stronger axioms to deal tih 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:12: <crystal-cola> with 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:43: <crystal-cola> like you can't prove ackermann terminates in weak logics.. you need something extra 2011-04-21.txt:19:29:52: <crystal-cola> and the same phenomenon happens all the time throughout 2011-04-21.txt:19:30:34: <crystal-cola> yeah that's true 2011-04-21.txt:19:30:50: <crystal-cola> I'm not saying I can prove false with this, I know it all works out fine in ZFC 2011-04-21.txt:19:33:05: <crystal-cola> hehe 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:11: <crystal-cola> it's non-trivial that they are independent 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:13: <crystal-cola> for a star 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:14: <crystal-cola> t 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:23: <crystal-cola> and their proof theoretic strength is also quite high 2011-04-21.txt:19:34:38: <crystal-cola> there is a lot up with them 2011-04-21.txt:19:35:55: <crystal-cola> well personally I ahve no trouble using them 2011-04-21.txt:19:36:16: <crystal-cola> I don't know about others, I wouldn't claim everyone else finds them hard but I wouldn't be surprised 2011-04-21.txt:19:36:23: <crystal-cola> people have trouble learning the axioms of group theory... 2011-04-21.txt:19:38:11: <crystal-cola> why is that confusing? 2011-04-21.txt:19:40:03: <crystal-cola> impomatic: int main(int argc, char** argv) 2011-04-21.txt:19:40:10: <crystal-cola> impomatic: and return EXIT_SUCCESS; 2011-04-21.txt:19:42:20: <crystal-cola> impomatic: I think you need to check if scanf worked 2011-04-21.txt:19:52:50: <crystal-cola> oklopol: that bit is weird, it's trivial to show that stuff corrrect... you just need a single non-constructive step (checking if a real number is zero or not) 2011-04-21.txt:19:53:02: <crystal-cola> for division 2011-04-21.txt:19:53:21: <crystal-cola> oklopol: so not sure what is meant by that paragraph.. 2011-04-21.txt:19:57:58: <crystal-cola> that's a subtle one 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:18: <crystal-cola> The computable reals are countable if you consider them as computter programs 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:26: <crystal-cola> but cantors diagonalization still works 2011-04-21.txt:19:58:37: <crystal-cola> so it all depends if you're "inside" or "outside" the theory 2011-04-21.txt:19:59:34: <crystal-cola> heh 2011-04-22.txt:12:48:48: <crystal-cola> marsh mallows are sugar and egg white 2011-04-22.txt:12:48:52: <crystal-cola> well 2011-04-22.txt:12:49:02: <crystal-cola> the stuff you buy in shops is probably synthesized from cow brains 2011-04-22.txt:12:49:10: <crystal-cola> but you can make them from sugar and egg white 2011-04-22.txt:13:50:45: <crystal-cola> show that x^15 + y^3 = 34^34 has no integer solutions 2011-04-22.txt:14:00:29: <crystal-cola> :D 2011-04-22.txt:14:01:01: <crystal-cola> wnat do you think of diophantine ? 2011-04-22.txt:14:12:20: <crystal-cola> Find all m,n such that 3^m - 2^n = +/- 1 2011-04-22.txt:14:16:31: <crystal-cola> diophantine equations with unsigned chars 2011-04-22.txt:14:16:36: <crystal-cola> you can check every case 2011-04-22.txt:14:17:45: <crystal-cola> Sgeo: ... 2011-04-22.txt:14:19:02: <crystal-cola> Sgeo: I don't think that can be solved by elementry methods 2011-04-22.txt:14:20:31: <crystal-cola> x^n + y^n = z^n => xyz = 0 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:06: <crystal-cola> haha that's clever 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:11: <crystal-cola> is is true for the negative n? 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:14: <crystal-cola> I don't konw about that 2011-04-22.txt:14:22:54: <crystal-cola> (yz)^n + (xz)^n = (xy)^n 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:17: <crystal-cola> okay what about n = -2 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:20: <crystal-cola> and -1 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:28: <crystal-cola> 1/x + 1/y = 1/z 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:33: <crystal-cola> 1/x^2 + 1/y^2 = 1/z^2 2011-04-22.txt:14:23:47: <crystal-cola> I will ask the egyptians 2011-04-22.txt:14:27:54: <crystal-cola> How do you find all solutions? 2011-04-22.txt:14:49:34: <crystal-cola> hey check this out 2011-04-22.txt:14:49:52: <crystal-cola> a(1)=1;a(n+1)=2n+1-a(a(n-1)) [too many lines; stopping]