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2011-08-05.txt:11:00:27: <itidus21> How does emacs compare to MS Word for learning curve?
2011-08-05.txt:11:00:43: <elliott> itidus21: :D
2011-08-05.txt:11:01:02: <NihilistDandy> itidus21: Much shallower. Word shortcuts make no sense at all
2011-08-05.txt:11:01:06: <itidus21> MS Word is childs play in comparison.
2011-08-05.txt:11:01:24: <elliott> itidus21: o rly?
2011-08-05.txt:11:01:44: <itidus21> but it has less features
2011-08-05.txt:11:02:11: <itidus21> as for me I use openoffice.org writer
2011-08-05.txt:11:02:20: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus21, just as bad.
2011-08-05.txt:11:02:27: <elliott> itidus21: You realise Emacs is not primarily a word processor, right?
2011-08-05.txt:11:02:44: <itidus21> can emacs interpret lisp?
2011-08-05.txt:11:03:00: <NihilistDandy> itidus21: Emacs is the only way it is actually possible to stand writing Lisp.
2011-08-05.txt:11:03:19: <itidus21> but can it execute lisp?
2011-08-05.txt:11:03:43: <elliott> itidus21: Yes, Emacs is based upon and in large parts written in Emacs Lisp.
2011-08-05.txt:11:03:59: <itidus21> lol :o
2011-08-05.txt:11:04:24: <itidus21> does emacs support any other languages in addition to lisp?
2011-08-05.txt:11:04:48: <NihilistDandy> itidus21: It supports all of them
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2011-08-05.txt:19:16:05: <itidus21> getting analytical...
2011-08-05.txt:19:17:34: <itidus21> the message "pay whatever you want" registers in your concious reasoning as the ultimate bargain... of being entirely in your best interests since it is putting you in control
2011-08-05.txt:19:18:26: <itidus21> and that... any concious attempt to find fault with it could be smothered or rationalized by the fact that it's your fault if you're not happy with the price you pay
2011-08-05.txt:19:19:43: <itidus21> however, such explanations do not account for the role of the individual in a society... complete with norms, expectations, feelings of guilt, feelings of shame, ethics of reciprocity, people-pleasers
2011-08-05.txt:19:20:11: <itidus21> and the idea that in a way you condone things, or vote for them, or sometimes boycott them, with your money
2011-08-05.txt:19:20:32: <itidus21> that collectively people make and break projects by how they spend their money
2011-08-05.txt:19:21:04: <itidus21> thats my take on it.
2011-08-05.txt:19:21:44: <itidus21> there is surely a game theory aspect to it
2011-08-05.txt:19:23:18: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus21, it's really just a matter of balancing the amount you're paying with the obligation you feel to pay and the incentive for them to provide further bundles.
2011-08-05.txt:19:26:41: <itidus21> its quite possible this person is targetting all creators of free software with this threat seeking out of court settlements
2011-08-05.txt:19:27:09: <itidus21> since with free software its much easier to install it, and thus provide evidence
2011-08-05.txt:19:27:59: <itidus21> i suspect its probably a wider stunt.... spider "touch" them.. hence they don't need a bite mark.. and they don't need to pay for the software
2011-08-05.txt:19:28:50: <itidus21> maybe even a mass mailer
2011-08-05.txt:19:29:17: <itidus21> was it specific about the nature of your software, or could it be mass?
2011-08-05.txt:19:29:54: <itidus21> such a person, with such low odds of success sending such an email, would need a large population
2011-08-05.txt:19:30:27: <itidus21> so its unlikely they have the time to actually try out every piece of software .. oor maybe they did
2011-08-05.txt:19:30:39: <zzo38> itidus21: No I think it was a few years ago in some IRC channel someone asked me directly. Maybe they are trying to be confusing or lying or joking or something I don't know, or tricked me
2011-08-05.txt:19:31:20: <itidus21> oh i see
2011-08-05.txt:19:31:30: <itidus21> so they asked for money back on some free software... thats really bizzare]
2011-08-05.txt:19:34:06: <zzo38> itidus21: Probably because my software confuses some people due to it being different from other software.
2011-08-05.txt:19:35:14: <itidus21> im trying to study some mechanics...
2011-08-05.txt:19:35:30: <itidus21> someone in another room said game coding rarely needs calculus
2011-08-05.txt:19:35:47: <itidus21> but... i seem to encounter calculus at every turn in this subject of mechanics
2011-08-05.txt:19:36:37: <zzo38> itidus21: I also seem game coding rarely needs calculus, but I have found many kinds of mathematics useful in a few cases in various programming whether it is a game or something else
2011-08-05.txt:19:37:47: <itidus21> these topics are pretty tough
2011-08-05.txt:19:38:21: <itidus21> kinematics, acceleration, proper acceleration, geodesic
2011-08-05.txt:19:38:57: <itidus21> i just want a good grasp of how everything works
2011-08-05.txt:19:39:07: <itidus21> i want to create a skeletal animation system
2011-08-05.txt:19:39:18: <itidus21> in 2d
2011-08-05.txt:19:39:33: <itidus21> maybe i should just jump into a tutorial on that directly :P
2011-08-05.txt:19:40:30: <itidus21> i want to design it in pseudocode terms
2011-08-05.txt:19:40:48: <itidus21> design more than implementation
2011-08-05.txt:19:41:01: <itidus21> not necessarily pseudocode
2011-08-05.txt:19:41:06: <itidus21> just the design of it yeah
2011-08-05.txt:19:42:02: <itidus21> i only want design though.. like on paper
2011-08-05.txt:19:42:36: <itidus21> that can come later
2011-08-05.txt:19:42:58: <itidus21> lol... its different because i am under no constraints
2011-08-05.txt:19:43:06: <itidus21> so there is no rush to implement
2011-08-05.txt:19:44:24: <itidus21> so i am trying to figure out how a 2d skeleton would work in practice
2011-08-05.txt:19:45:09: <itidus21> i could certainly make one if it was frozen in place.... but the important part of actually making it animate is lots of thinking involved
2011-08-05.txt:19:46:27: <itidus21> ah.. so it could be that a model to experiment with would be a good start
2011-08-05.txt:19:47:52: <itidus21> hmm still to early for prototype i suppose..
2011-08-05.txt:19:48:31: <itidus21> so.. to youtube... the great colony google
2011-08-05.txt:19:48:39: <itidus21> ^colony of
2011-08-05.txt:19:54:08: <itidus21> back
2011-08-05.txt:19:54:53: <itidus21> MDude: i mean like an invisible frame of interconnected vertices onto which visible pieces are added
2011-08-05.txt:19:55:02: <itidus21> ^added or.. skinned in some way
2011-08-05.txt:19:55:30: <itidus21> i also want to give it inverse kinematics... just to be awesome
2011-08-05.txt:19:56:10: <itidus21> its all part of some hare-brained scheme for a game engine
2011-08-05.txt:19:57:25: <itidus21> its been done before and all... but it is a pretty sexy thing
2011-08-05.txt:19:58:49: <itidus21> yup
2011-08-05.txt:19:59:00: <itidus21> well see... i don't know this kind of math very well
2011-08-05.txt:19:59:27: <itidus21> so its basically, i know its possible, and its just a matter of finding out which formulas do what i need
2011-08-05.txt:20:00:59: <itidus21> my plans are too freeform to be bound up by something like literate programming
2011-08-05.txt:20:01:53: <itidus21> you could almost say the whole thing is a thought exercize...
2011-08-05.txt:20:02:08: <itidus21> this thing i am working on i mean
2011-08-05.txt:20:05:11: <itidus21> ok i found a tutorial it seems
2011-08-05.txt:20:06:15: <itidus21> I have implemented things in the past, despite not being very good, I know that I can implement things if I have to.  So I am focused on the system now.
2011-08-05.txt:20:06:55: <itidus21> perhaps an overengineered monster, perhaps just an experiment
2011-08-05.txt:20:12:47: <itidus21> regarding implementation languages, i have this idea of doing a virtual machine language based around vector graphics primitives
2011-08-05.txt:20:12:58: <itidus21> so this puppy is all about over-engineering
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2011-08-09.txt:20:57:36: <monqy> maybe itidus21 will get it.....
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2011-08-20.txt:02:35:51: <itidus21> IO may cause drowziness.
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2011-09-13.txt:09:33:51: <oerjan> itidus21: lambda calculus can do any computation that a computer can do, but you have to encode the data as lambda expressions first, and define your functions...
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2011-09-15.txt:07:08:33: <itidus21> `karma+ itidus20
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2011-09-15.txt:21:32:09: <oerjan> `run echo "The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery;  ask itidus21 for details." >wisdom/monqy
2011-09-15.txt:21:32:28: <HackEgo> The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery;  ask itidus21 for details.
2011-09-15.txt:21:32:36: <itidus21> :-s
2011-09-15.txt:21:33:18: <itidus21> i do have an extensive collection of english-translated ancient chinese books and ebooks... but i don't know much about it
2011-09-15.txt:21:33:57: <itidus21> and my memory is hopeless
2011-09-15.txt:21:36:08: <elliott> `run echo "The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details." >wisdom/monqy
2011-09-15.txt:21:39:11: <oerjan> is itidus21 using mystery to reverse entropy?
2011-09-15.txt:21:40:44: <itidus21> i don't know the stuff seriously
2011-09-15.txt:21:41:11: <itidus21> i do know that leibniz was curious about the i ching
2011-09-15.txt:21:41:35: <itidus21> and wolframalpha says that yin yang is like mathematical monad
2011-09-15.txt:21:44:08: <itidus21> oerjan: if you clone your enemy can you find his weaknesses?
2011-09-15.txt:21:45:00: <itidus21> perhaps having a dna sample of your enemy could give insight into their weaknesses
2011-09-15.txt:21:45:13: <itidus21> im not meaning that this is a good thing..
2011-09-15.txt:21:45:23: <itidus21> but seems like an inevitable military application
2011-09-15.txt:21:45:50: <itidus21> you could discover allergies they don't know they have
2011-09-15.txt:21:46:23: <itidus21> but on the topic of allergies i have heard it might not be genetic.. i dunno
2011-09-15.txt:21:53:07: <itidus21> back. a topic i am interested in is definitions of difficult and easy
2011-09-15.txt:21:54:00: <itidus21> for me easy to difficult is a continuum, easy being involuntary, difficult being impossible
2011-09-15.txt:21:56:01: <itidus21> i think a task moves towards impossible as the ratio of required materials, time, kilojoules moves away from the available materials, time, kilojoules
2011-09-15.txt:21:56:38: <itidus21> but also the capacity to bridge the gap between the required and available affects it
2011-09-15.txt:21:57:53: <itidus21> you just don't like the word difficult
2011-09-15.txt:21:58:05: <itidus21> noone seems to
2011-09-15.txt:21:58:43: <itidus21> impossible to me is if any chatter here is not dead within 130 years
2011-09-15.txt:21:59:03: <itidus21> i don't believe any amount of science will manage it
2011-09-15.txt:21:59:19: <itidus21> because for one thing science requires money
2011-09-15.txt:21:59:25: <itidus21> and money is a finite resource
2011-09-15.txt:22:00:33: <itidus21> so this time constraint of 130 years may just make it unworkable
2011-09-15.txt:22:01:08: <itidus21> sure if you remove constraints then things become possible
2011-09-15.txt:22:02:56: <itidus21> impossible is also if i held up fingers anyone being able to count them..
2011-09-15.txt:22:04:13: <itidus21> although there is a possibility that someone really does have a camera in place to count them, it is not a real possibility
2011-09-15.txt:22:05:07: <itidus21> ok ill go chill out
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2011-09-15.txt:22:12:04: <itidus21> lagging bad
2011-09-15.txt:22:12:10: <itidus21> maybe impossible is a limit
2011-09-15.txt:22:12:24: <itidus21> which you can only approach,kind of like infinity
2011-09-15.txt:22:15:03: <itidus21> ^not that i want to be here in 130 years
2011-09-15.txt:22:17:04: <itidus21> `log shenanigan
2011-09-15.txt:22:18:07: <itidus21> `log random
2011-09-15.txt:22:18:37: <itidus21> `log impossible
2011-09-15.txt:22:19:42: <itidus21> `log world
2011-09-15.txt:22:20:00: <itidus21> `log world
2011-09-15.txt:22:20:40: <itidus21> `log dwarf
2011-09-15.txt:22:21:16: <itidus21> `log the body
2011-09-15.txt:22:21:45: <itidus21>  @gregor, yeah.. the reflex is discussed on wiki page of common misconceptions
2011-09-15.txt:22:24:03: <itidus21> impossible = talking someone out of doing something malicious to you
2011-09-15.txt:22:25:20: <itidus21> basically the drowning reflex is not social
2011-09-15.txt:22:25:29: <itidus21> its not designed to draw others attention
2011-09-15.txt:22:25:42: <itidus21> all energy becomes concentrated on survival
2011-09-15.txt:22:25:52: <itidus21> unfortunately its quite useless
2011-09-15.txt:22:26:37: <itidus21> if drowning reflex worked you wouldn't need bodyguards
2011-09-15.txt:22:26:44: <itidus21> ^lifeguards
2011-09-15.txt:22:34:28: <Guest53387> itidus21: You're responding to RANDOM LINES FROM THE LOG?!?!
2011-09-15.txt:22:35:42: <itidus21> Guest53387: yeah, except, i must add that it migt be a social thing.. but the point is the drowning reflex is something you could be 5 feet away from someone and not know they're drowning
2011-09-15.txt:22:35:50: <itidus21> unless you know what to look for
2011-09-15.txt:22:36:45: <itidus21> human body is not good at a few things "rotting teeth"... "drowning"
2011-09-15.txt:22:37:28: <itidus21> i mean we need a dentist industry to avoid chronic tooth pain? its really that bad?
2011-09-15.txt:22:37:43: <itidus21> evolution fucked up on the teeth department
2011-09-15.txt:22:38:54: <oerjan> itidus21: evolution may not have foreseen industrial sugar
2011-09-15.txt:22:38:57: <itidus21> well i feel bad about my rant before
2011-09-15.txt:22:39:12: <itidus21> so im overcompensating :)
2011-09-15.txt:22:39:43: <itidus21> but a toothache won't just stop
2011-09-15.txt:22:40:18: <itidus21> dh_ ok you're right
2011-09-15.txt:22:42:26: <itidus21> :o
2011-09-15.txt:22:42:36: <itidus21> ability to be grandparents
2011-09-15.txt:22:42:42: <itidus21> thats pretty intense
2011-09-15.txt:22:43:00: <itidus21> most animals don't become grandparents?
2011-09-15.txt:22:43:50: <itidus21> `log sandwich
2011-09-15.txt:22:44:19: <itidus21> `log bread
2011-09-15.txt:22:44:31: <itidus21> `log toast
2011-09-15.txt:22:44:48: <itidus21> `log crossaint
2011-09-15.txt:22:44:52: <HackEgo> 2011-09-15.txt:22:44:48: <itidus21> `log crossaint
2011-09-15.txt:22:45:20: <itidus21> `log sandwich
2011-09-15.txt:22:45:35: <itidus21> `log sandwich
2011-09-15.txt:22:46:03: <itidus21> `log sammich
2011-09-15.txt:22:52:19: <itidus21> http://blog.progopedia.com/2011/jul/31/gourmet-programming/
2011-09-15.txt:23:04:06: <itidus21> ok so i was thinking and reading,
2011-09-15.txt:23:04:29: <itidus21> it has occured to me that chessboard does not contain an encoding of the rules of chess within itself
2011-09-15.txt:23:04:45: <itidus21> this is a terrible situation
2011-09-15.txt:23:05:15: <itidus21> so i thought of a possible solution
2011-09-15.txt:23:08:44: <itidus21> i was reading hither and thither
2011-09-15.txt:23:09:49: <itidus21> ok this is the general idea http://oi53.tinypic.com/21jtzs5.jpg
2011-09-15.txt:23:10:31: <itidus21> someone in here once mentioned to me that some game where each piece was a chessboard of its own
2011-09-15.txt:23:11:09: <itidus21> but the idea i am looking at here is each piece is an address of some program section which defines it
2011-09-15.txt:23:12:27: <itidus21> so the chessboard itself i am trying to see as being just a part of a program
2011-09-15.txt:23:13:34: <itidus21> humm.. so how would it work.. it would be
2011-09-15.txt:23:14:22: <itidus21> well firstly you might have a data structure representing a chess piece
2011-09-15.txt:23:15:08: <itidus21> and each class of chess piece could be some numbers plugged into that data structure
2011-09-15.txt:23:16:01: <itidus21> and, so, you could, say each piece was a pointer to a chess piece data structure
2011-09-15.txt:23:18:00: <itidus21> ok Betza defines a pawn as "mfWcfFimfW2" and Parlett defines a pawn as "o1>, c1X>, io2>"
2011-09-15.txt:23:18:20: <itidus21> so you could store "mfWcfFimfW2" at say, address 100
2011-09-15.txt:23:18:50: <itidus21> and your row of pawns would then all be pointers to address 100
2011-09-15.txt:23:19:50: <itidus21> now if a piece could break out of the board.. and tamper with the definition of a pawn
2011-09-15.txt:23:20:03: <itidus21> it could start getting quite interesting
2011-09-15.txt:23:29:44: <itidus21> Patashu: so the program becomes the board.. and pieces are presumably tracked by some kind of array or list
2011-09-15.txt:23:34:36: <itidus21> so when it is your turn you would select a cell from those available in your list of cells, and a desired place to move it, and it would look up the instructions of the piece by following its address
2011-09-15.txt:23:35:05: <itidus21> for example pawns might be described at address 100, and then, if your move is possible it would be made
2011-09-15.txt:23:52:03: <CakeProphet> itidus21: there is no fenestrated wall in programs.
2011-09-16.txt:00:05:32: <CakeProphet> itidus21: meaning that anything in the program that goes "outside the bounds" of the system has either been designed as part of the system, or is most likely a bug/segfault.
2011-09-16.txt:00:12:29: <itidus21> CakeProphet: yeah..
2011-09-16.txt:00:13:11: <itidus21> a properly implemented chessboard and chess rules will never bring about a situation where the pieces can leave the board
2011-09-16.txt:00:13:36: <itidus21> leaving board has to be by design or by hacking/bugs
2011-09-16.txt:00:15:30: <itidus21> theres this problem that a game doesn't necessarily become better by being larger or more complicated
2011-09-16.txt:00:19:00: <itidus21> like it can be a memory test[eg the game memory], a reflex test[arcade/action games], a calculation test[puzzle/strategy games], a strength test[punching bag style games/some sports], a stamina test[some sports]
2011-09-16.txt:00:19:40: <itidus21> also.. it can be a test of how much time and money you have
2011-09-16.txt:00:20:41: <itidus21> the idlerpg game is like a test of how long you can maintain an irc connection
2011-09-16.txt:00:21:55: <itidus21> some games where you can buy items or priviliges with real world money show that off... and being able to afford better internet connections or living in country with good internet can improve that
2011-09-16.txt:00:23:00: <itidus21> also games can be a test of the ability to cheat or hacking it
2011-09-16.txt:00:24:31: <itidus21> monqy: because i want to think up a cool game.. and it would be easy if all i had to do was say "bigger! more complicated!"
2011-09-16.txt:00:25:15: <itidus21> the trick is that a game does not infact prove superiority of one over another.. it is an illusion of the ego
2011-09-16.txt:00:29:49: <itidus21> so, another way i try to look at it is the value of art
2011-09-16.txt:00:31:03: <itidus21> poetry, novels, drawings, paintings, musical compositions, sculptures, garden arrangements, house decoration
2011-09-16.txt:00:31:15: <itidus21> ^film
2011-09-16.txt:00:31:54: <itidus21> theater plays, operas, orchestras, concerts, puppet shows, circuses
2011-09-16.txt:00:32:45: <itidus21> singing, dancing
2011-09-16.txt:00:33:58: <itidus21> origami, martial arts, fashion
2011-09-16.txt:00:34:34: <itidus21> cooking
2011-09-16.txt:00:35:52: * oerjan waits for itidus21 to run away screaming
2011-09-16.txt:00:36:46: <itidus21> now whether science, mathematics, physics, electronics, engineering, philosophy, religion, programming etc, fits in with that first list i am not sure
2011-09-16.txt:00:42:25: <itidus21> now these things difficult to classify   religion, business, politics, law, military, sales, marketing, tourism, psychology(could be science)
2011-09-16.txt:00:43:08: <itidus21> the last ones seem to be a category of things which are particularly social in nature
2011-09-16.txt:00:44:17: <itidus21> so, i am left wondering where gaming fits in to all this
2011-09-16.txt:00:45:11: <itidus21> is it a drug.. is it a shallow consumable..
2011-09-16.txt:00:45:21: <itidus21> is it an artform
2011-09-16.txt:00:45:30: <itidus21> is it a science
2011-09-16.txt:00:47:02: <itidus21> perhaps a game can be enjoyed or not enjoyed in just the same way as everything else
2011-09-16.txt:00:48:23: <itidus21> upon a stable basis of friendly people wanting to interact a game can perform it's magic
2011-09-16.txt:01:03:46: <itidus21> so drawing my attention now to how games are played.  chess tables in a park. gambling in wild west saloons. casinos. basketball courts. football fields. olympic stadiums. racing tracks. slot car racing venues. golf courses. arcade game places.
2011-09-16.txt:01:04:07: <itidus21> billiads/pool halls.
2011-09-16.txt:01:04:25: <itidus21> ^bulliards
2011-09-16.txt:01:07:02: <itidus21> on a phone. bedroom PC. a lan cafe. lan parties. family tv with console attached. tabletop games like board games, military sims, role playing games
2011-09-16.txt:01:07:59: <itidus21> marble games often played outdoors
2011-09-16.txt:01:09:31: <itidus21>  i spy, charades, travel versions of some board games
2011-09-16.txt:01:09:51: <itidus21> newspaper puzzles, magazine puzzles,
2011-09-16.txt:01:10:13: <itidus21> live action role playing games(LARP)
2011-09-16.txt:01:11:13: <itidus21> hop scotch. tennis ball bouncing games, such as bouncing in squares of pavement or bouncing off a wall
2011-09-16.txt:01:11:48: <itidus21> easter egg hunts
2011-09-16.txt:01:13:28: <itidus21> some games seems to be played for entertainment, some played for profit..
2011-09-16.txt:01:14:25: <itidus21> some for .. i don't know.. i can't really understand mathematicians or why they play mathematical games
2011-09-16.txt:01:15:50: <itidus21> perhaps those are also entertaining, but there is certainly some educational value to some games too
2011-09-16.txt:01:16:37: <itidus21> however, education of course is a means and not an end, and yet we hope that we never stop learning
2011-09-16.txt:01:17:59: * itidus21 walks off in the twilight among the chirps of crickets, satisfied.
2011-09-16.txt:02:32:32: <itidus21> yeah, we can take the burden of knowing something happened without knowing what it was
2011-09-16.txt:03:02:56: <itidus21> `log smeg
2011-09-16.txt:03:03:22: <itidus21> `log smeg
2011-09-16.txt:03:03:31: <itidus21> o.o
2011-09-16.txt:03:04:12: <itidus21> `log loller
2011-09-16.txt:03:04:48: <itidus21> `log fuck
2011-09-16.txt:03:05:10: <itidus21> `log fuck
2011-09-16.txt:03:05:18: <itidus21> `log fuck
2011-09-16.txt:03:05:37: <itidus21> `log unusable
2011-09-16.txt:03:06:30: <itidus21> `log mario
2011-09-16.txt:03:06:49: <itidus21> `log #jesus
2011-09-16.txt:03:07:32: <itidus21> `log http
2011-09-16.txt:03:08:08: <itidus21> `log norris
2011-09-16.txt:03:13:27: <monqy> itidus21: hi
2011-09-16.txt:03:28:05: <itidus21> `log just using log to maintain some modicum of relaxation
2011-09-16.txt:03:28:07: <HackEgo> 2011-09-16.txt:03:28:05: <itidus21> `log just using log to maintain some modicum of relaxation
2011-09-16.txt:03:45:28: <itidus21> my theory that mondrian's style was already existant in flag designs
2011-09-16.txt:03:45:41: <itidus21> but not formalized
2011-09-16.txt:04:59:58: <itidus21>             \o/
2011-09-16.txt:05:00:31: <itidus21> shachaf: well their arms have to be up because basically
2011-09-16.txt:05:00:42: <itidus21>    o
2011-09-16.txt:05:00:46: <itidus21>   /|\
[too many lines; stopping]