2011-07-16.txt:00:00:57: -!- itidus20 has joined #esoteric.
2011-07-16.txt:03:40:55: <itidus20> zzo, sort of like how stage hypnosis is supposed to work eh.
2011-07-16.txt:03:42:10: <itidus20> i've seen an [obviously staged] video of a guy who hypnotized a woman to think he was invisible and then he would tickle her with a feather and make her look up with confusion
2011-07-16.txt:03:42:20: <itidus20> on youtube
2011-07-16.txt:03:43:00: <itidus20> but i am trying to put such bizzare fetishes behind me.
2011-07-16.txt:03:43:22: <itidus20> it might not have been youtube :-? i forget
2011-07-16.txt:03:44:17: <itidus20> and there is that book whose name i am not sure of which apparently has this word fnord which the citizens have been conditioned to block out
2011-07-16.txt:03:44:32: <itidus20> instilling fear in them because it is present in their texts even though they cannot conciously see it
2011-07-16.txt:03:46:59: <itidus20> as far as I know, the actual experience of such things is a deep form of submission whereby you let someone force you to fake it till you make it
2011-07-16.txt:03:50:05: <itidus20> it was after a girl in a chatroom started actually doing this to me that I knew I had to leave her.
2011-07-16.txt:04:07:58: <itidus20> hmm
2011-07-16.txt:04:08:02: <itidus20> math games..
2011-07-16.txt:04:08:42: <itidus20> quintopia, single or multiplayer?
2011-07-16.txt:04:10:52: <itidus20> I have a small stash of ebooks which I more or less just hoard and don't investigate, some of which may actually be relevant.
2011-07-16.txt:04:14:25: <itidus20> lewis carroll, raymond smullyan, douglas hofstadter
2011-07-16.txt:04:14:46: <itidus20> i don't know if they entirely reach the topic.
2011-07-16.txt:04:16:16: <itidus20> i am sure john conway is relevant to the topic but i don't have any ebooks that are really related to him
2011-07-16.txt:04:20:39: <itidus20> puzzles are more common than actual games
2011-07-16.txt:04:23:26: <itidus20> depressing wiki comment backs me up "This article is about using mathematics to study the inner-workings of multiplayer games which, on the surface, may not appear mathematical at all. For games that directly involve mathematics in their play, see mathematical puzzle."
2011-07-16.txt:04:25:12: <itidus20> maybe things aren't so bad
2011-07-16.txt:04:25:19: <itidus20> anyway here is the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_game
2011-07-16.txt:04:30:34: <itidus20> As a wannabe game designer it gives me great pain to think about how the only reason games are possible is due to imperfections in the players.
2011-07-16.txt:04:31:08: <itidus20> relative to perfect play that is
2011-07-16.txt:04:31:37: <itidus20> but thats probably a naive view i hold too often
2011-07-16.txt:04:32:49: <itidus20> That is the cynical depressing view that all gaming is to demonstrate some level of deviation from perfect play higher than the opponent.
2011-07-16.txt:04:33:35: <itidus20> Then again we find that perfect play is a waste of time.
2011-07-16.txt:04:34:02: <itidus20> And yet it helps motivate us to play if we idealize perfect play.
2011-07-16.txt:04:34:18: <itidus20> All of this of course is my cynical views which are probably wrong.
2011-07-16.txt:04:36:17: <itidus20> im full of shit ^_^;
2011-07-16.txt:04:37:39: <itidus20> i analyze things too much
2011-07-16.txt:04:38:03: <itidus20> i can think of arguments against my earlier comments but its all just a pile of crap comments
2011-07-16.txt:04:38:49: <itidus20> humm
2011-07-16.txt:04:39:03: <itidus20> you know what i havent seen much is coop games
2011-07-16.txt:04:39:34: <itidus20> i was talking to this guy once about it
2011-07-16.txt:04:42:26: <itidus20> omg the first result on google is an xkcd page
2011-07-16.txt:04:43:20: <itidus20> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16990
2011-07-16.txt:04:43:42: <itidus20> omg quintopia posted on that page
2011-07-16.txt:04:44:41: <itidus20> yeah, i am skillful googler
2011-07-16.txt:04:47:13: <itidus20> well i searched on: "3 player game" "help or hinder"
2011-07-16.txt:04:47:24: <itidus20> didn't work in bing so i proceeded to google and it did
2011-07-16.txt:04:47:56: <itidus20> yet an MS spokeswoman says "if google didn't exist bing would be good enough"
2011-07-16.txt:04:49:15: <itidus20> yeah good enough for me to use as fertilizer
2011-07-16.txt:04:49:47: <itidus20> 3 player eh
2011-07-16.txt:04:50:00: <itidus20> so.... by having an odd number of players the dynamics become much more complex
2011-07-16.txt:04:52:08: <itidus20> this very sort of topic is what eventually led me to a chatroom for esoteric programming languages
2011-07-16.txt:04:53:14: <itidus20> so this page is like anti-3 player games
2011-07-16.txt:04:53:17: <itidus20> but i am all for it
2011-07-16.txt:04:54:21: <itidus20> ashbash makes the point
2011-07-16.txt:04:54:50: <itidus20> chance is fun.
2011-07-16.txt:04:55:42: <itidus20> oh
2011-07-16.txt:04:55:50: <itidus20> an idea just came to me,
2011-07-16.txt:04:56:48: <itidus20> i am a genius of course.. so ideas often come to me
2011-07-16.txt:04:57:37: <itidus20> ok i am "confident" you have not heard of this game before
2011-07-16.txt:04:58:01: <itidus20> so.. each player has 2 private 8x8 boards
2011-07-16.txt:04:58:17: <itidus20> following with me so far?
2011-07-16.txt:04:58:50: <zzo38> itidus20: OK. So far. But that isn't much.
2011-07-16.txt:04:59:02: <itidus20> they each have a pair of 8x8 boards that only they can see.. thus a total of four 8x8 boards
2011-07-16.txt:04:59:34: <itidus20> they also have a bunch of tiles... lets say 128 tiles just to be safe
2011-07-16.txt:04:59:45: <itidus20> 128 each
2011-07-16.txt:05:00:25: <itidus20> and uh.. 2 more tiles of a second color.. and 2 more tiles of a third color
2011-07-16.txt:05:00:50: <itidus20> so..  color 1) 128 tiles, color 2) 2 tiles, color 3) 2 tiles
2011-07-16.txt:05:00:56: <itidus20> hehe
2011-07-16.txt:05:01:43: <itidus20> ok now.. they begin by placing color 3 tiles on the boards.. 1 on each board
2011-07-16.txt:05:01:59: <itidus20> at location.. x = 4, y = 8
2011-07-16.txt:05:02:37: <itidus20> now, on one of the boards, they place a color 2 tile somewhere
2011-07-16.txt:05:03:09: <itidus20> so far so good?
2011-07-16.txt:05:03:48: <itidus20> oh.. its allowed anywhere except the first tile position
2011-07-16.txt:05:04:10: <itidus20> for now.. that rule might turn out to need altering
2011-07-16.txt:05:04:52: <itidus20> ok.. next.. you build a maze with the color 1 tiles leading to the color 2 tile
2011-07-16.txt:05:05:14: <itidus20> from the color 3 tile to the color 2 tile
2011-07-16.txt:05:06:50: <itidus20> diagonal moves are not possible, but the maze has to be a solid object in the way that a tetris piece is a solid object
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:00: <itidus20> uhh sort of
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:07: <itidus20> maybe it can have gaps
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:14: <itidus20> but uhhh
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:17: <itidus20> hummm blah
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:21: <itidus20> yeah anyway moving along
2011-07-16.txt:05:07:32: <itidus20> well im not sure.. this part is tricky to formalize in words
2011-07-16.txt:05:08:11: <itidus20> so anyway... what happens is.. in any order.. doesn't matter.. each turn.. both players are told which directions have walls
2011-07-16.txt:05:08:21: <itidus20> so it might be like "east and west have walls"
2011-07-16.txt:05:08:51: <quintopia> itidus20: the easiest way to say what i think you are trying to say is "no 2x2 region can contain no color 1 tiles"
2011-07-16.txt:05:09:08: <itidus20> and then the player tells the other player which direction he makes his move
2011-07-16.txt:05:09:33: <itidus20> and both players update their boards.. and its a race to reach the end of the maze
2011-07-16.txt:05:10:04: <itidus20> yup
2011-07-16.txt:05:10:14: <itidus20> its not a bad idea right?
2011-07-16.txt:05:12:21: <itidus20> oh i am empty of ideas now. just had to spill that one
2011-07-16.txt:05:15:48: <itidus20> it is by jumping into such random convos that such ideas come to me
2011-07-16.txt:05:15:51: <itidus20> i never get them on my own
2011-07-16.txt:05:17:04: <itidus20> zzo, yeah i like to consider every possible use of the chessboard other than to play chess :-?
2011-07-16.txt:05:18:37: <zzo38> itidus20: Yes you can make other games using the same or similar board. Some game similar to chess includes Xiangqi, Shogi, played with their own board, but it is still like chess, you still take turn moving 1 piece each, you attack opponent's king and can win, etc.
2011-07-16.txt:05:18:48: <itidus20> i actually created a wild image with my wacom tablet the other day to show my desire to stretch the game of chess
2011-07-16.txt:05:22:11: <itidus20> I liked the chess variant shown on the big bang theory
2011-07-16.txt:05:22:53: <itidus20> http://oi55.tinypic.com/15n2fro.jpg
2011-07-16.txt:05:24:34: <itidus20> damn
2011-07-16.txt:05:26:01: <itidus20> i dont like chess because i have no clue how to play.. and that being the best is ridiculously difficult
2011-07-16.txt:05:26:37: <itidus20> and a game like chess to me is the perfect thing to exploit into other games
2011-07-16.txt:05:29:09: <itidus20> the maze thing is probably not as good in practice as it sounds.
2011-07-16.txt:05:29:33: <zzo38> itidus20: I believe you.
2011-07-16.txt:05:29:51: <itidus20> but the idea is fun
2011-07-16.txt:05:32:10: <itidus20> you're right... its basically battleships except reduced down to 1 small ship
2011-07-16.txt:05:33:23: <itidus20> no i don't.
2011-07-16.txt:05:33:42: <quintopia> itidus20: i am getting another idea for a maze game
2011-07-16.txt:05:35:57: <itidus20> quintopia: I once had an idea about generating a maze by dice rolls
2011-07-16.txt:05:36:57: <quintopia> itidus20: i want to make a cross between pacman and fox-and-geese, where the geese player is the only one who knows the maze and the positions of everything.
2011-07-16.txt:05:38:01: <itidus20> zzo, i am fascinated by some dragonball z emulated roms based on card games
2011-07-16.txt:05:38:22: <itidus20> ah fox and geese.. i have a book around with a lot of games described
2011-07-16.txt:05:39:20: <itidus20> theres 1 special book about chess history which i have been unable to locate on the internet
2011-07-16.txt:05:40:18: <itidus20> ill check my browser history
2011-07-16.txt:05:41:13: <itidus20> A History Of Chess by some H.J.R. Murray
2011-07-16.txt:05:42:43: <NihilistDandy> itidus20: Surprisingly, I can't find it either. I thought I had a near comprehensive set of books on chess.
2011-07-16.txt:05:42:54: <itidus20> its very special that one
2011-07-16.txt:05:43:01: <itidus20> will be hard to find
2011-07-16.txt:05:43:52: <itidus20> I learned about it when I started to want to know about the very origins of chess
2011-07-16.txt:05:47:27: <itidus20> theres something so compelling about chess.. but yet for me there is a certain boredom that i imagine with it
2011-07-16.txt:05:49:52: <zzo38> itidus20: I think I have also played some kind of card game Dragonball Z on NES, although I am unsure of the rule. Each card two numbers, one above is dots tell you how many times to move, the one below I am not sure what it means.
2011-07-16.txt:05:50:20: <itidus20> zzo38: yeah.. thats exactly the kind of game i mean. they're fun to watch
2011-07-16.txt:05:50:36: <itidus20> i have no clue what goes on though
2011-07-16.txt:05:52:48: <itidus20> oh well i think theres some translations anyway
2011-07-16.txt:05:52:56: <itidus20> but even still i would have no idea
2011-07-16.txt:05:54:27: <itidus20> so, zzo, did you learn much about chess variants?
2011-07-16.txt:05:55:22: <itidus20> i actually basically independantly discovered the theory of chess variants
2011-07-16.txt:05:55:45: <itidus20> and, at the end i googled it and found out with dismay that what i had discovered was nothing new at all
2011-07-16.txt:05:56:56: <itidus20> perhaps theory is the wrong word.. but i will explain
2011-07-16.txt:05:56:59: <zzo38> itidus20:  http://chessvariants.org/
2011-07-16.txt:05:57:27: <itidus20> oh, well, by discovering it myself i had insight into exactly what chess variants are.
2011-07-16.txt:05:58:07: <itidus20> they are taking the properties of the individual pieces and forming an abstract class which you might call "chesspiece"
2011-07-16.txt:05:58:21: <itidus20> and.. deriving from that class.. new pieces
2011-07-16.txt:05:58:42: <itidus20> this general process is exceedingly powerful
2011-07-16.txt:06:04:55: <itidus20> so naturally most chess moves resolve into vectors. either specific lengths or unlimited
2011-07-16.txt:06:05:40: <itidus20> now .. this creates a problem if you imagine a chessboard of say 1000x1000 ... do you still want some pieces crossing it in one go -- that is -- are unlimited movement vectors implied on boards > 8x8
2011-07-16.txt:06:05:57: <itidus20> its all very fun for a rainy day
2011-07-16.txt:06:07:40: <itidus20> of course one way around that would be to divide the board up into districts
2011-07-16.txt:06:07:54: <itidus20> where a piece has to stop at the edge
2011-07-16.txt:06:08:00: <itidus20> sort of
2011-07-16.txt:06:10:37: <itidus20> the trouble starts when you start trying to abstract moves like en passant and castling
2011-07-16.txt:06:11:10: <itidus20> then it feels like a scripting language would be useful
2011-07-16.txt:06:11:21: <itidus20> in the definition of the pieces
2011-07-16.txt:06:14:48: <itidus20> back
2011-07-16.txt:06:14:57: <itidus20> dandy: variant pieces
2011-07-16.txt:06:15:12: <itidus20> well, i don't know. perhaps the conversation has multi-threaded too
2011-07-16.txt:06:15:22: <itidus20> which is nice
2011-07-16.txt:06:16:57: <itidus20> So I decided when I was thinking about chess variants that the minimal conditions I would find acceptable is a system which could describe all the rules of chess
2011-07-16.txt:06:17:27: <itidus20> including castling and pawns moving 2 spaces on their first go, and queening, and en passant etc
2011-07-16.txt:06:18:46: <itidus20> I did try for a little while.  I think as I became aware of the existence of professionals who had already done a lot of it, I lost interest.
2011-07-16.txt:06:18:52: <itidus20> both :D
2011-07-16.txt:06:19:45: <itidus20> I had plans on making a program to do it but it started to make me sweat so by then i had thrown in towel
2011-07-16.txt:06:20:29: <itidus20> I didn't have any exciting ideas anyway
2011-07-16.txt:06:20:49: <itidus20> I simply realized that chesspieces could be highly generalized.
2011-07-16.txt:06:21:48: <itidus20> Also, there is the draw I feel towards making a realtime chess
2011-07-16.txt:06:22:00: <itidus20> I have seen a youtube video of kungfu chess.
2011-07-16.txt:06:25:51: <itidus20> I feel a small joy reading "I would rather take the real-time chess concept as far as it can go."
2011-07-16.txt:06:26:52: <itidus20> but yeah.. sumo volleyball sounds like the kind of nonsense I would be looking to create
2011-07-16.txt:06:31:38: <itidus20> well, i decided to define a boolean named virgin for whether or not a piece has moved yet :D
2011-07-16.txt:06:33:08: <itidus20> i also abstracted the role of the king into an idea of like a squad leader
2011-07-16.txt:06:35:08: <itidus20> so uh.. you could have a chess army consisting of multiple squads..
2011-07-16.txt:06:35:15: <itidus20> and if you take down the leader, the whole squad falls
2011-07-16.txt:06:35:58: <itidus20> yeah, i am full of ideas on this kind of thing.. it provides me some kind of perverse pleasure
2011-07-16.txt:06:39:06: <itidus20> YChat works.
2011-07-16.txt:06:39:11: <itidus20> I dunno how it compares
2011-07-16.txt:06:40:13: <itidus20> hmm.. seems they are related
2011-07-16.txt:06:40:41: <itidus20> looking on the about box one of the devs of this ychat has an email address silverex@silverex.org
2011-07-16.txt:06:41:18: <Sgeo_> itidus20, so basically, you're using Silverex, which just puts YChat as the name of the program
2011-07-16.txt:06:41:33: <itidus20> im using some version of it
2011-07-16.txt:06:41:40: <itidus20> i dont know
2011-07-16.txt:06:42:05: <itidus20> its listed as: X Chat 2 in the start menu
2011-07-16.txt:06:42:46: <itidus20> weird
2011-07-16.txt:08:12:22: <itidus20> whats QI?
2011-07-16.txt:08:12:41: <itidus20> is it IQ backwards?
2011-07-16.txt:08:13:06: <itidus20> ah yes
2011-07-16.txt:08:14:14: <itidus20> "last night"
2011-07-16.txt:08:14:16: <itidus20> hehehehe
2011-07-16.txt:08:15:17: <itidus20> I doubt that there is a QI esolang though.
2011-07-16.txt:08:15:51: <itidus20> although.. much to my surprise, a term i thought up "hashashins weed" has already been used
2011-07-16.txt:12:18:45: -!- itidus20 has quit (*.net *.split).
2011-07-16.txt:12:19:58: -!- itidus20 has joined #esoteric.
2011-07-16.txt:18:35:15: <itidus20> yay darkest hours are always the most thrilling
2011-07-16.txt:18:46:30: <itidus20> hagb4rd, is your point that the first 3d shooters are more awesome than the ones which followed?
2011-07-16.txt:18:48:47: <itidus20> hagb4rd: I have become aware in my thoughts that software developers tend to take credit for improvements caused by hardware
2011-07-16.txt:18:49:58: <itidus20> hagb4rd: are you happy with 6fps? im a little confused where you actually stand on this
2011-07-16.txt:18:51:09: <itidus20> i am amazed atari had a fps
2011-07-16.txt:19:07:03: <itidus20> hagb4rd: I am glad you showed these fps videos. Anyway I think that the fps genre is losing creativity.
2011-07-16.txt:19:19:19: <itidus20> hag: I had some ideas about planets in 2d.
2011-07-16.txt:19:19:56: <itidus20> The first idea I had is that if you walk far enough to the left or right in 2d you can come up on the other side
2011-07-16.txt:19:20:12: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, ...
2011-07-16.txt:19:20:51: <oklofok> itidus20: you mean you came up with the idea of somehow making R^2 into a torus?
2011-07-16.txt:19:21:33: <itidus20> i am happy to admit i am full of crap and can laugh at myself about it
2011-07-16.txt:19:22:19: <itidus20> oklofok: when I was thinking about it what I really wanted to achieve is to do it without a sense of cheating the player
2011-07-16.txt:19:23:45: <itidus20> R^2 is already over my head, but I can still carry on
2011-07-16.txt:19:24:58: <itidus20> i have wiki at my side
2011-07-16.txt:19:25:52: <itidus20> but so this wasn't entirely enough for me. there was more. i wanted to allow the player to "dig through the planet"
2011-07-16.txt:19:26:33: <itidus20> humm i will make a quick paint pic
2011-07-16.txt:19:30:01: <itidus20> http://oi51.tinypic.com/nl4u1v.jpg
2011-07-16.txt:19:30:45: <itidus20> in this pic you can sort of see the idea of "digging" through but the first problem arises. it looks very odd if the player does not turn his head around as he falls
2011-07-16.txt:19:31:36: <itidus20> so i had this idea that the center of the planet could be another torus , to borrow your word
2011-07-16.txt:19:32:06: <itidus20> no wait, maybe that wasn't the idea
2011-07-16.txt:19:32:34: <itidus20> anyway.. i thought.. when you reach the center of the planet while falling through, you should reach a dark screen where your path follows a U shape
2011-07-16.txt:19:32:53: <itidus20> and you start falling upwards without actually turning upside down
2011-07-16.txt:19:34:03: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, suggest you read http://everything2.com/title/Using+Asteroids+to+explain+the+topological+classification+of+2-manifolds
2011-07-16.txt:19:34:22: <itidus20> ok
2011-07-16.txt:19:37:32: <itidus20> (still reading the article, even while I type this) my more general theorum is that in practice the earth looks flat. It never actually looks like a sphere to anyone standing on it. So it should never have to look round in a video game.
2011-07-16.txt:19:38:21: <oerjan> itidus20: what about on mountains near the ocean?
2011-07-16.txt:19:38:27: <Sgeo> itidus20, what if someon finds a way to lift off into seep space in the game?
2011-07-16.txt:19:38:54: <itidus20> ya ur rite
2011-07-16.txt:19:39:01: <itidus20> but..
2011-07-16.txt:19:39:04: <oklofok> itidus20: you want a surface like that of earth's, but infinitely deep?
2011-07-16.txt:19:39:10: <itidus20> maybe its possible to do both
2011-07-16.txt:19:39:49: <itidus20> well first I imagined a giant circle. and I thought, how big does the circle have to be so that it looks flat
2011-07-16.txt:19:40:14: <Sgeo> itidus20, it wouldn't be an absolute size, but a size relative to the observer
2011-07-16.txt:19:40:33: <Phantom_Hoover> <itidus20> (still reading the article, even while I type this) my more general theorum is that in practice the earth looks flat. It never actually looks like a sphere to anyone standing on it. So it should never have to look round in a video game.
2011-07-16.txt:19:42:05: <itidus20> oklofok, well i decided that as you reach the center you reach a black background and your sprite follows a U path and when it goes up again it is falling upwards to some other point. so i guess that is infinite depth.
2011-07-16.txt:19:42:32: <oklofok> itidus20: i think it's better to prevent reaching the middle altogether
2011-07-16.txt:19:44:00: <itidus20> I am full of crap. I am a whole magnitude below mathematically. ^_^
2011-07-16.txt:19:44:11: <itidus20> But I think up things from left field.
2011-07-16.txt:19:45:39: <itidus20> So I was trying to squiash all this into a tile based side scroller (as an idea) which cannot rotate.
2011-07-16.txt:19:50:18: <itidus20> ok i guess theres room for compromise
2011-07-16.txt:19:51:15: <itidus20> so what do you do.. make the character change size? :D :D
2011-07-16.txt:19:51:53: <itidus20> perhaps as he falls deeper he scales up
2011-07-16.txt:19:52:31: <itidus20> like a map projection, when a man goes to iceland
2011-07-16.txt:19:52:36: <itidus20> his body probably grows larger
2011-07-16.txt:19:52:56: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, what
2011-07-16.txt:19:53:12: <itidus20> yeah. greenland/iceland is gigantic on most map projections
2011-07-16.txt:19:53:29: <oklofok> "<itidus20> perhaps as he falls deeper he scales up" well more like gets smaller
2011-07-16.txt:19:53:51: <itidus20> phantom, it has occured to me that the missing link could be that the character could actually change size to make it all work
2011-07-16.txt:19:54:04: <itidus20> thanks to listening to this conversation
2011-07-16.txt:19:55:00: <itidus20> ok hagb4rd: like suppose uh.. Zelda.. was played on a typical map projection.
2011-07-16.txt:19:55:19: <itidus20> now when he is standing on iceland his body will be stretched :D
2011-07-16.txt:19:56:17: <oklofok> itidus20: i was thinking maybe you could have a metric such that on every level of depth inside earth, you have a surface with the same circumference as earth, but you have infinitely many concentric balls "on top" of each other
2011-07-16.txt:19:57:08: <itidus20> oklofok, i really did actually commit some of this to paper months ago.. but i am clueless on topology
2011-07-16.txt:19:57:24: <itidus20> so now it comes to life
2011-07-16.txt:19:58:42: <itidus20> oklofok: well the deeper paradox of falling through earth is that your up vector has to change at some point
2011-07-16.txt:19:58:56: <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: oh i see itidus20 was already bringing up similar ideas.  btw this reminds me of a valerian comic...
2011-07-16.txt:19:59:04: <oklofok> itidus20: unless you just fall infinitely?
2011-07-16.txt:19:59:15: <itidus20> so I decided let him fall in  U shape
2011-07-16.txt:20:00:36: <itidus20> because if i didnt say let him fall in a U shape then either the map flips upside down or the character flips upside down and it would look awkward
2011-07-16.txt:20:00:55: <itidus20> something would have to flip
2011-07-16.txt:20:01:09: <itidus20> i also realize that you couldn't actually fall through.. gravity would pin you in the center
2011-07-16.txt:20:01:57: <itidus20> the idea of falling through is really just to ensure that the planet is real
2011-07-16.txt:20:02:37: <itidus20> anyone who quotes that evil man behind general semantics who says the map is not the territory is to be slain >:)
2011-07-16.txt:20:03:08: <Phantom_Hoover> <itidus20> i also realize that you couldn't actually fall through.. gravity would pin you in the center
2011-07-16.txt:20:04:27: <itidus20> phantom, so uhh.. i don't think any player has any actual reason to dig in a planet. but i think that the idea forces the game to cope with that possibility
2011-07-16.txt:20:04:52: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, the gravity at a planet's core is 0.
2011-07-16.txt:20:05:06: <itidus20> ahh
2011-07-16.txt:20:05:28: <itidus20> does it decrease as you approach the center?
2011-07-16.txt:20:05:45: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, yes.
2011-07-16.txt:20:06:10: <oerjan> itidus20: basically for a perfectly spherical body, the gravity at a point inside is given by only the part of the body that is further inside from you
2011-07-16.txt:20:06:49: <itidus20> on a related idea. i had this idea of a game of life sort of thing which makes connected clusters of dots have a mass and hence a gravity and to affect each other
2011-07-16.txt:20:07:26: <oklofok> "<itidus20> on a related idea. i had this idea of a game of life sort of thing which makes connected clusters of dots have a mass and hence a gravity and to affect each other" <<< can i steal this idea and try to do something cool with it next week?
2011-07-16.txt:20:08:08: <itidus20> all of my ideas are free to do whatever you like with as long as i get to use them myself
2011-07-16.txt:20:08:14: <itidus20> lol
2011-07-16.txt:20:08:43: <itidus20> as in, i don't want to get cut off from my own ideas
2011-07-16.txt:20:09:25: <itidus20> so a tetris piece would have a mass of 4
2011-07-16.txt:20:10:06: <itidus20> but if 2 tetris pieces bumped together, they would become one object with a mass of 8
2011-07-16.txt:20:11:01: <itidus20> for me, diagonal connections in CA's (i love the acronyms you guy use so casually) is good enough to share mass
2011-07-16.txt:20:12:09: <oklofok> itidus20: as i love telling people, i get payed to play with ca all day so acronymizing it gets pretty casual
2011-07-16.txt:20:12:44: <itidus20> oklofok: ok heres another idea i had (i was on a roll that day)
2011-07-16.txt:20:13:12: <itidus20> a chess game CA where the piece type is determined by the pieces around it
2011-07-16.txt:20:14:00: <itidus20> well it would be just a CA... but the pieces would exist as uhh
2011-07-16.txt:20:14:03: <oklofok> itidus20: huh?
2011-07-16.txt:20:14:13: <itidus20> the pieces would be implied by the rules of the CA I guess..
2011-07-16.txt:20:14:41: <itidus20> so say you had a cell on its own.. that could be a pawn
2011-07-16.txt:20:14:47: <itidus20> as an example
2011-07-16.txt:20:15:13: <oklofok> itidus20: chess pieces are not really mathematically interesting
2011-07-16.txt:20:15:19: <itidus20> i actually drew up some ideas of possible rules for which pieces are which
2011-07-16.txt:20:16:05: <itidus20> oh.. well.. ok.. so you start with a regular game of life
2011-07-16.txt:20:16:12: <itidus20> and.. in between turns
2011-07-16.txt:20:16:25: <itidus20> generations?
2011-07-16.txt:20:16:56: <itidus20> ok lets say its not quite game of life.. lets say you have 2 teams .. so trinary state
2011-07-16.txt:20:17:08: <itidus20> because its chess
2011-07-16.txt:20:17:21: <itidus20> or uhh
2011-07-16.txt:20:17:24: <itidus20> uhhhmmm
2011-07-16.txt:20:17:34: <itidus20> i never really thought about it that way
2011-07-16.txt:20:18:19: <itidus20> well.. you would have a dead cell, a black cell, and a white cell
2011-07-16.txt:20:19:20: <itidus20> so at the end of a generation the player can select 1 cell.. whose type is determined by the cells around it
2011-07-16.txt:20:19:35: <itidus20> and move it
2011-07-16.txt:20:20:01: <itidus20> and in all likelihood it is now a new kind of piece having moved
2011-07-16.txt:20:20:24: <itidus20> and lets say you can capture an enemy cell by moving onto it
2011-07-16.txt:20:20:49: <itidus20> i try
2011-07-16.txt:20:20:51: <itidus20> hehe
2011-07-16.txt:20:21:32: <itidus20> i was discussing that very question in here last night about how far can a chesspiece move
2011-07-16.txt:20:22:10: <itidus20> ok finite ca
2011-07-16.txt:20:22:46: <itidus20> so the actual pieces are represented as rules of neighborhoods
2011-07-16.txt:20:23:17: <itidus20> and the fun of the design is determining which neighborhoods map to which pieces
2011-07-16.txt:20:23:49: <itidus20> I came up with a set but I never did anything with this idea
2011-07-16.txt:20:26:28: <itidus20> The idea could also be extended into fairy chess.
2011-07-16.txt:20:28:13: <itidus20> sorry taneb
2011-07-16.txt:20:28:23: <itidus20> i will join your convo
2011-07-16.txt:20:38:10: <itidus20> working on CAs it must be tough to resist the topic i came up with.
2011-07-16.txt:20:40:18: <itidus20> so, on looking at reduceron page, I feel my ineptitude. what's the best language to learn functional programming concepts?
2011-07-16.txt:20:41:30: <itidus20> thanks
2011-07-16.txt:20:41:53: <itidus20> i have tried reading up on lambda calc once but i never quite got it
2011-07-16.txt:20:42:12: <itidus20> ^ http://byob.berkeley.edu/
2011-07-16.txt:20:42:30: <itidus20> oh nice it's visual programming
2011-07-16.txt:20:42:59: <itidus20> I won't fuck the room again by my ideas about visual programming.
2011-07-16.txt:20:43:07: <itidus20> ill just quiet down
2011-07-16.txt:20:44:10: <itidus20> because if you think my ideas about torus worlds, gravity CAs, chess CAs make a mess. then visual programming is just as bad
2011-07-16.txt:20:44:48: <itidus20> i'll save it for another day
2011-07-16.txt:20:49:14: <itidus20> I smash them together like a particle collider
2011-07-16.txt:20:49:52: <itidus20> =))
2011-07-16.txt:20:50:29: <itidus20> Basically I see things as existing in academic space and entertainment space.
2011-07-16.txt:20:51:14: <itidus20> I take inspiration from people like lewis carroll
2011-07-16.txt:20:51:52: <itidus20> hmm...
[too many lines; stopping]