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2008-06-27.txt:18:03:06: <tusho> AAA_AAA ais523 AnMaster atsampson augur bsmntbombdood cctoide cherez clog Corun Deewiant Dewi fizzie ihope Ilari jamesstanley Judofyr lament lifthras1ir mtve oklopol Polar puzzlet RodgerTheGreat sebbu sekhmet Sgeo shachaf SimonRC Slereah_ timotiis tusho
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2011-01-04.txt:16:27:32: <shachaf> Relax, people. I deal with esoteric languages all the time.
2011-01-04.txt:16:27:46: <shachaf> Today I'll probably be doing something with C++, for instance.
2011-01-04.txt:16:28:07: <Silvah> shachaf: seconded
2011-01-04.txt:16:28:45: <shachaf> Cale: What, lambdabot doesn't support hot reloading of the startup code? :-)
2011-01-04.txt:16:28:57: <shachaf> elliott: Was that bug fixed?
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:08: <elliott> shachaf: What bug?
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:19: <shachaf> ?where+ bug ?where haskell
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:27: <shachaf> Wait, she's not even in here.
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:40: <elliott> shachaf: I doubt she responds to herself.
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:48: <elliott> shachaf: But, er, if that works then yes, there is slight cause for concern.
2011-01-04.txt:16:29:54: <shachaf> elliott: Yes, you need two lambdabots for that to work.
2011-01-04.txt:16:30:07: <elliott> shachaf: Say hello to EgoBot, HackEgo, and fungot.
2011-01-04.txt:16:30:28: <Cale> shachaf: It was a different change I wanted to make (the flags for running mueval)
2011-01-04.txt:16:30:37: <shachaf> Cale: Ah.
2011-01-04.txt:16:31:36: <shachaf> @unlambda `.xv
2011-01-04.txt:16:31:46: <shachaf> Ah, lambadbot belongs here after all.
2011-01-04.txt:16:31:57: <Vorpal> shachaf, how so?
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:07: <shachaf> Vorpal: Well, @bf and @unlambda.
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:14: <shachaf> Maybe that's not esoteric enough for this channel, though.
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:14: <Vorpal> shachaf, right
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:26: <elliott> shachaf: EgoBot already does those! :-P
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:26: <shachaf> > text "hello"
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:41: <shachaf> Cale: mueval is broken.
2011-01-04.txt:16:32:54: <elliott> shachaf: So is the Brainfuck 8-bit, 16-bit, bignum? Left-infinite or right-infinite tape? What EOF convention? (Any input?)
2011-01-04.txt:16:33:05: <shachaf> @version
2011-01-04.txt:16:33:06: <elliott> shachaf: Do c and d interact properly in the Unlambda?
2011-01-04.txt:16:33:23: <shachaf> Clearly lambdabot should support Lazy K instead of unlambda.
2011-01-04.txt:16:33:30: <elliott> shachaf: I approve.
2011-01-04.txt:16:35:32: <shachaf> elliott: In the main directory.
2011-01-04.txt:16:36:42: <shachaf> It should support http://samuelhughes.com/boof/
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:00: <elliott> shachaf: It should support every language on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list.
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:10: <elliott> shachaf: But especially http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php.
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:10: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: What do you mean?
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:16: <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, note that a fair deal of those languages are not computable.
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:35: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: The latter is an alias for the former, as far as I can tell.
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:45: <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, Sam Hughes of qntm.org.
2011-01-04.txt:16:37:55: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: No, it's "the other" Sam Hughes.
2011-01-04.txt:16:38:29: <shachaf> Ha!
2011-01-04.txt:16:38:33: <shachaf> We've caught you.
2011-01-04.txt:16:38:56: <shachaf> Like Java?
2011-01-04.txt:16:38:59: <shachaf> How esoteric.
2011-01-04.txt:16:39:12: <elliott> shachaf: Oh man, that's as funny as that one time someone called Perl line noise!</cranky>
2011-01-04.txt:16:39:16: <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, we have a well-established boundary between "esoteric" and "boring".
2011-01-04.txt:16:39:18: <zzo38> shachaf: Actually we discuss like a lot of various things in this channel, although esoteric programming is its main topic.
2011-01-04.txt:16:40:34: <elliott> shachaf: Really though, our favourite esoteric language, so theoretical and academic to be almost useless, yet so beautiful in its purity that it's almost a shame that it's impossible to write real programs in it...
2011-01-04.txt:16:40:37: <elliott> shachaf: Haskell.
2011-01-04.txt:16:41:11: <shachaf> elliott: Why? I doubt most of #haskell would seriously disagree with you.
2011-01-04.txt:16:41:27: <shachaf> Maybe dons and the other Galois folks.
2011-01-04.txt:16:41:59: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Well, as far as languages that *try* to be theoretically pure, Haskell probably ranks pretty badly.
2011-01-04.txt:16:42:43: <shachaf> Is there any language that uses FRP in any meaningful way?
2011-01-04.txt:16:42:52: <elliott> shachaf: Conalskell!
2011-01-04.txt:16:43:06: <shachaf> elliott: Is "elliott" /= "elliottt"?
2011-01-04.txt:16:43:17: <elliott> shachaf: Yes indeed.
2011-01-04.txt:16:43:27: <elliott> shachaf: In fact I have talked to elliottt before I believe. Quite confusing.
2011-01-04.txt:16:43:49: <shachaf> Ah, you're ehird. OK.
2011-01-04.txt:16:46:16: <shachaf> This channel seems like such a time-waster.
2011-01-04.txt:16:46:25: * shachaf doesn't play Minecraft, though.
2011-01-04.txt:16:46:35: <shachaf> So presumably when you show your true colors it'll subside.
2011-01-04.txt:16:47:43: <elliott> shachaf: That is, until you start playing.
2011-01-04.txt:16:59:59: <shachaf> 08:59 < Khaos> !pom
2011-01-04.txt:16:59:59: <shachaf> 08:59 < Rodney> The Moon is New.  New moon in NetHack for the next 3 days.
2011-01-04.txt:17:00:06: <shachaf> lambdabot needs to get this functionality.
2011-01-04.txt:17:00:38: <elliott> shachaf: psht, soon you will ascend from nethack to playing dwarf fortress. then you'll descend from playing dwarf fortress to lego^Wminecraft.
2011-01-04.txt:17:01:10: <shachaf> elliott: Dwarf Fortress? Minecraft? What about your liberty?
2011-01-04.txt:17:01:27: <elliott> shachaf: NetHack takes away the liberty referred to as "free time"
2011-01-04.txt:17:02:39: <shachaf> elliott: Dwarf Fortress doesn't provide the source code. Minecraft doesn't even provide the binary without payment.
2011-01-04.txt:17:02:55: <elliott> shachaf: And NetHack doesn't provide free time.
2011-01-04.txt:17:03:20: <shachaf> elliott: Look, in this comparison you're not gaining anything by saying that one of them takes away your free time.
2011-01-04.txt:17:03:29: <shachaf> That's considered an invariant.
2011-01-04.txt:17:03:39: <elliott> shachaf: I'm not actually being serious
2011-01-04.txt:17:04:06: * shachaf isn't completely either.
2011-01-04.txt:17:04:20: <shachaf> I had more or less stopped with NetHack until two people independently tried to get me to start again.
2011-01-04.txt:17:04:24: * shachaf sighs.
2011-01-04.txt:17:04:57: * shachaf vanishes in a puff of orange smoke.
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2011-02-09.txt:04:18:40: <zzo38> For your information, I have received TIME responses from the following:  nddylliog,fizzie,Sgeo,joo,sebbu,Zuu,clog,taotree,pingveno,copumpkin,Slereah,Leonidas,ineiros,variable,quintopia,Mannerisky,aloril,dbc,Deewiant,jix,poiuy_qwert,cal153,fizzie,SimonRC,olsner,miekko,mycroftiv,pikhq_,shachaf,tswett,Gregor,Gregor,lifthrasiir
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2011-02-19.txt:03:46:29: <zzo38> I received notice from:  fizzie,Sgeo,Leonidas,sebbu2,olsner,variable,dbc,yiyus,clog,elliott_,coppro,Mannerisky,comex_,Gregor,ineiros_,pikhq_,aloril,fizzie,yorick,Gregor,oerjan,tswett,shachaf,mycroftiv,Deewiant,quintopia,SimonRC,Zuu,lifthrasiir,pingveno,Zwaarddijk,jix_,copumpkin.  I did receive twice from some
2011-02-19.txt:03:56:04: <shachaf> Is zzo38's bug-everybody mode strictly necessary?
2011-02-19.txt:03:56:25: <zzo38> shachaf: I don't know.
2011-02-19.txt:03:56:37: <elliott_> shachaf: apparently.
2011-02-21.txt:02:21:47: <elliott> Prelude> length . words $ "pikhq Zuu augur elliott cheater- Wamanuz5 oerjan Sgeo sebbu Mathnerd314 fungot copumpkin coppro variable HackEgo tswett_ aloril jix pingveno mtve cal153 Gregor Mannerisky sftp lambdabot quintopia clog Slereah jcp rodgort Ilari ineiros_ comex_ SimonRC shachaf Deewiant Zwaarddijk dbc Leonidas fizzie Vorpal olsner yiyus EgoBot myndzi lifthrasiir Ilari_antrcomp mycroftiv"
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2011-03-19.txt:23:37:36: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: What is she doing in #esoteric? Is this your doing too?
2011-03-19.txt:23:37:44: <shachaf> Haskell does not qualify as esoteric.
2011-03-19.txt:23:51:32: <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Take that.
2011-03-19.txt:23:51:40: * shachaf shouldn't abuse lambdabot bugs, actually.
2011-03-19.txt:23:52:04: <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, I HAVE POWERS BEYOND YOVR IMAGINING
2011-03-20.txt:00:14:36: <shachaf> pikhq_: 17.
2011-03-20.txt:00:14:57: <shachaf> No, 16.
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2011-04-08.txt:13:44:19: <Phantom_Hoover> <{aloril, bsmntbombdood, dbc, enki-[quit], iamcal, jcp, jix, lifthrasiir, mtve, mycroftiv, pingveno, rodgort, sebbu, sftp, shachaf, SimonRC, yiyus, Zwaarddijk}> ANYTHING AT ALL
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2011-05-26.txt:07:34:17: <shachaf> > fix ((1:).scanl(+)1) -- This?
2011-05-26.txt:07:34:44: <shachaf> Patashu: Fixed-point combinator. fix f = f (fix f)
2011-05-26.txt:07:35:35: <shachaf> oerjan: What ar eyou doing in this channel instead of #haskell? :-)
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2011-07-21.txt:00:46:14: <oerjan> copumpkin: shachaf: do any of you have any idea why this differs?
2011-07-21.txt:00:46:42: <shachaf> oerjan: That's kind of weird.
2011-07-21.txt:00:47:16: <shachaf> > error `id` error "foo"
2011-07-21.txt:00:47:38: <shachaf> > id error (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:47:46: <shachaf> > error (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:48:02: <shachaf> > (let x = error in x) (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:48:13: <shachaf> > (let x = error in x `seq` x) (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:48:19: <shachaf> > (let x = error in id x) (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:48:26: <shachaf> Exciting.
2011-07-21.txt:00:54:56: <shachaf> So GHC knows that error is strict, but not that id error is?
2011-07-21.txt:00:55:00: <shachaf> Makes sense, I guess.
2011-07-21.txt:00:55:30: <shachaf> > id error (error "foo")
2011-07-21.txt:00:55:33: <shachaf> > error (error "foo")
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2011-08-07.txt:07:36:34: <shachaf> It depends on what "break" means, I suppose.
2011-08-07.txt:07:36:57: <shachaf> I doubt treating something as a Word8 would segfault.
2011-08-08.txt:19:42:00: <shachaf> Rank-2 types ruin everything.
2011-08-08.txt:19:42:18: <shachaf> > runST (return True)
2011-08-08.txt:19:42:20: <shachaf> > id runST (return True)
2011-08-08.txt:19:42:26: <shachaf> > let x = id runST in x (return True)
2011-08-08.txt:19:43:35: <shachaf> $ is also not equivalent to parentheses on the type level.
2011-08-08.txt:19:43:41: <shachaf> Fortunately you can say type a :$ b = a b
2011-08-08.txt:19:44:02: <shachaf> Battle-hardened types that have been promoted.
2011-08-08.txt:19:46:23: <shachaf> Up to RANK OMEGA.
2011-08-08.txt:19:46:32: * shachaf needs sleep.
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:07: <shachaf> "hash"-haskell?
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:16: <elliott> shachaf: Shut up my number keys are broken.
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:18: <shachaf> oerjan: Sure you can.
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:30: <elliott> shachaf: How?
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:36: <shachaf> Well, OK, you can't.
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:38: <oerjan> shachaf: elliott has a long-standing keyboard problem
2011-08-13.txt:02:18:56: <shachaf> > mаp 1 2
2011-08-13.txt:02:19:08: <Lymee> shachaf, how was that done? =p
2011-08-13.txt:02:19:15: <shachaf> You can't @let type classes or data types in lambdabot, sadly. :-(
2011-08-13.txt:02:19:32: * shachaf never thought of pronouncing it as "hash". Weird.
2011-08-13.txt:02:20:12: <shachaf> Er, actually, now that I think of it, I say "sulamit haskell".
2011-08-13.txt:02:20:22: <oerjan> shachaf: wat
2011-08-13.txt:02:20:39: <shachaf> I guess "hash" kind of makes sense. Though it has too many meanings.
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:06: <elliott> shachaf will take his secrets to the grave.
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:13: <elliott> shachaf: I say octothorpe when I'm not being informal
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:18: <shachaf> elliott: Which secrets?
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:39: <elliott> shachaf: How to do a ?let like that
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:39: <shachaf> > mаp (\x -> x) -> [1,2,3,4]
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:47: <shachaf> elliott: Like what?
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:51: <shachaf> > mаp (\x -> x) [1,2,3,4]
2011-08-13.txt:02:21:54: <elliott> shachaf: Bypassing the ambiguity
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:05: <elliott> <shachaf> Well, OK, you can't.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:17: <shachaf> elliott: Like, whoa, man, you're, like, the same elliott as the one in #haskell.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:20: <Lymee> <shachaf> > mаp 1 2
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:24: <shachaf> Same number of 't's.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:26: <elliott> shachaf: Whoaaaaaaaaaaa.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:31: <elliott> shachaf: I'm not that elliottt guy though.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:32: <shachaf> Lymee: By typing it in.
2011-08-13.txt:02:22:45: <shachaf> Maybe you're conal elliottt?
2011-08-13.txt:02:23:09: <shachaf> elliott: Oh, he came to #haskell once and saw elliottt and was very happy.
2011-08-13.txt:02:23:17: <elliott> shachaf: Who, elliottcable?
2011-08-13.txt:02:23:23: <shachaf> elliott: I think so.
2011-08-13.txt:02:24:07: <shachaf> > (еlliott, elliott)
2011-08-13.txt:02:24:47: <oerjan> shachaf: i think i've got a hunch there :P
2011-08-13.txt:02:25:01: <shachaf> oerjan spoils everything.
2011-08-13.txt:02:25:19: <oerjan> Lymee: i just cut and pasted shachaf's line.  i think it has invisible chars
2011-08-13.txt:02:25:35: <shachaf> oerjan: NOpe.
2011-08-13.txt:02:27:00: <shachaf> Lymee: You really abuse it, don't you. @define, @undefine, @undefine foo, and so on all reset the entire L.hs file.
2011-08-13.txt:02:27:14: <elliott> shachaf: Not that there's much other choice
2011-08-13.txt:02:27:42: <shachaf> There is no invisible character!
2011-08-15.txt:02:31:17: <shachaf> No, it's a non-exhaustive patterns problem.
2011-08-15.txt:02:31:57: <shachaf> ?
2011-08-15.txt:02:32:00: * shachaf can't parse that sentence.
2011-08-15.txt:02:32:19: <shachaf> Nor that one.
2011-08-15.txt:02:32:36: <shachaf> If you define a function like "foo (Just x) = x", and then you call it with Nothing, that's a non-exhaustive pattern.
2011-08-15.txt:02:32:43: <shachaf> You don't define what foo of Nothing is.
2011-08-15.txt:02:32:55: <shachaf> Oh.
2011-08-15.txt:02:33:13: <shachaf> I thought this was a Haskell program.
2011-08-15.txt:02:33:39: <shachaf> So the interpreter is broken.
2011-08-15.txt:02:34:42: <shachaf> Non-exhaustive patterns means that the Haskell program doesn't take some possibility into account.
2011-08-15.txt:02:35:46: <shachaf> Like http://www.samuelhughes.com/boof/index.html ?
2011-08-15.txt:07:30:50: <shachaf> @ahoy Taneb
2011-08-15.txt:23:50:10: <shachaf> More like >>=, no?
2011-08-15.txt:23:50:20: <shachaf> Well, it depends.
2011-08-15.txt:23:51:54: <shachaf> http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/monadic-shell.html
2011-08-19.txt:01:36:36: <shachaf> augur: lament used to be in #haskell, at least.
2011-08-19.txt:07:15:40: <shachaf> NihilistDandy: Why are you asking?
2011-08-19.txt:07:15:47: <NihilistDandy> shachaf: itidus20: I'm sort of familiar with it, but I'd like something more rigorous
2011-08-19.txt:07:15:57: <itidus20> shachaf: oh your question asking method is so elegant
2011-08-19.txt:18:29:27: -!- shachaf_ has joined #esoteric.
2011-08-19.txt:18:37:23: -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split).
2011-08-19.txt:21:45:48: -!- shachaf_ is now known as shachaf.
2011-08-20.txt:07:18:38: <shachaf> evincar: You don't need to call it "monads" unless you generalize it like Haskell does.
2011-08-20.txt:07:18:49: <evincar> shachaf: Why wouldn't I generalise it?
2011-08-20.txt:07:19:26: <shachaf> Well, sure.
2011-08-20.txt:12:46:57: <shachaf> An old Visual Basic program ported to Haskell, I believe.
2011-08-20.txt:12:47:22: <shachaf> Just some regexp matches with a bit of randomness, or something of the sort.
2011-08-21.txt:14:04:15: <shachaf> elliott: Don't worry, you'll die by the time you're 32.
2011-08-21.txt:14:04:33: <elliott> shachaf: OK, who stored my age in an unsigned five-bit integer?
2011-08-21.txt:14:04:50: <shachaf> It was actually a signed six-bit integer.
2011-08-21.txt:14:05:22: <shachaf> No, he'll die.
2011-08-21.txt:14:06:10: <shachaf> You deserve it.
2011-08-21.txt:14:06:21: <shachaf> I think there was a song that said that.
2011-08-21.txt:14:06:38: <elliott> shachaf: Thanks for the CTCPs
2011-08-22.txt:05:45:17: <CakeProphet> aloril atehwa_ augur augur chickenzilla clog GreaseMonkey iamcal ineiros jcp jcp|other jix lifthrasiir mycroftiv myndzi rodgort sebbu shachaf SimonRC variable twice11 Wamanuz yiyus yorick Zwaarddijk:  sup
2011-08-22.txt:05:56:46: <shachaf> @slap CakeProphet
2011-08-23.txt:01:24:15: <shachaf> No.
2011-08-23.txt:01:26:19: <shachaf> getArgs also might not have "--interactive".
2011-08-23.txt:01:26:27: <shachaf> Or it might not be in the first position.
2011-08-23.txt:01:26:41: <shachaf> It might give you an empty list, in which case your program will crash. :-)
2011-08-23.txt:01:28:21: <elliott_> shachaf: Out of curiosity, when would --interact not be in getArgs using GHCi?
2011-08-23.txt:01:28:54: <shachaf> elliott_: Well, when I run ghci and type getArgs, it prints out [].
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