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1 2011-07-16.txt:00:00:57: -!- itidus20 has joined #esoteric.
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2 2011-07-16.txt:03:40:55: <itidus20> zzo, sort of like how stage hypnosis is supposed to work eh.
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3 2011-07-16.txt:03:42:10: <itidus20> i've seen an [obviously staged] video of a guy who hypnotized a woman to think he was invisible and then he would tickle her with a feather and make her look up with confusion
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4 2011-07-16.txt:03:42:20: <itidus20> on youtube
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5 2011-07-16.txt:03:43:00: <itidus20> but i am trying to put such bizzare fetishes behind me.
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6 2011-07-16.txt:03:43:22: <itidus20> it might not have been youtube :-? i forget
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7 2011-07-16.txt:03:44:17: <itidus20> and there is that book whose name i am not sure of which apparently has this word fnord which the citizens have been conditioned to block out
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8 2011-07-16.txt:03:44:32: <itidus20> instilling fear in them because it is present in their texts even though they cannot conciously see it
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9 2011-07-16.txt:03:46:59: <itidus20> as far as I know, the actual experience of such things is a deep form of submission whereby you let someone force you to fake it till you make it
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10 2011-07-16.txt:03:50:05: <itidus20> it was after a girl in a chatroom started actually doing this to me that I knew I had to leave her.
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11 2011-07-16.txt:04:07:58: <itidus20> hmm
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12 2011-07-16.txt:04:08:02: <itidus20> math games..
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13 2011-07-16.txt:04:08:42: <itidus20> quintopia, single or multiplayer?
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14 2011-07-16.txt:04:10:52: <itidus20> I have a small stash of ebooks which I more or less just hoard and don't investigate, some of which may actually be relevant.
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15 2011-07-16.txt:04:14:25: <itidus20> lewis carroll, raymond smullyan, douglas hofstadter
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16 2011-07-16.txt:04:14:46: <itidus20> i don't know if they entirely reach the topic.
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17 2011-07-16.txt:04:16:16: <itidus20> i am sure john conway is relevant to the topic but i don't have any ebooks that are really related to him
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18 2011-07-16.txt:04:20:39: <itidus20> puzzles are more common than actual games
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19 2011-07-16.txt:04:23:26: <itidus20> depressing wiki comment backs me up "This article is about using mathematics to study the inner-workings of multiplayer games which, on the surface, may not appear mathematical at all. For games that directly involve mathematics in their play, see mathematical puzzle."
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20 2011-07-16.txt:04:25:12: <itidus20> maybe things aren't so bad
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21 2011-07-16.txt:04:25:19: <itidus20> anyway here is the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_game
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22 2011-07-16.txt:04:30:34: <itidus20> As a wannabe game designer it gives me great pain to think about how the only reason games are possible is due to imperfections in the players.
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23 2011-07-16.txt:04:31:08: <itidus20> relative to perfect play that is
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24 2011-07-16.txt:04:31:37: <itidus20> but thats probably a naive view i hold too often
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25 2011-07-16.txt:04:32:49: <itidus20> That is the cynical depressing view that all gaming is to demonstrate some level of deviation from perfect play higher than the opponent.
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26 2011-07-16.txt:04:33:35: <itidus20> Then again we find that perfect play is a waste of time.
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27 2011-07-16.txt:04:34:02: <itidus20> And yet it helps motivate us to play if we idealize perfect play.
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28 2011-07-16.txt:04:34:18: <itidus20> All of this of course is my cynical views which are probably wrong.
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29 2011-07-16.txt:04:36:17: <itidus20> im full of shit ^_^;
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30 2011-07-16.txt:04:37:39: <itidus20> i analyze things too much
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31 2011-07-16.txt:04:38:03: <itidus20> i can think of arguments against my earlier comments but its all just a pile of crap comments
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32 2011-07-16.txt:04:38:49: <itidus20> humm
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33 2011-07-16.txt:04:39:03: <itidus20> you know what i havent seen much is coop games
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34 2011-07-16.txt:04:39:34: <itidus20> i was talking to this guy once about it
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35 2011-07-16.txt:04:42:26: <itidus20> omg the first result on google is an xkcd page
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36 2011-07-16.txt:04:43:20: <itidus20> http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16990
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37 2011-07-16.txt:04:43:42: <itidus20> omg quintopia posted on that page
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38 2011-07-16.txt:04:44:41: <itidus20> yeah, i am skillful googler
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39 2011-07-16.txt:04:47:13: <itidus20> well i searched on: "3 player game" "help or hinder"
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40 2011-07-16.txt:04:47:24: <itidus20> didn't work in bing so i proceeded to google and it did
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41 2011-07-16.txt:04:47:56: <itidus20> yet an MS spokeswoman says "if google didn't exist bing would be good enough"
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42 2011-07-16.txt:04:49:15: <itidus20> yeah good enough for me to use as fertilizer
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43 2011-07-16.txt:04:49:47: <itidus20> 3 player eh
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44 2011-07-16.txt:04:50:00: <itidus20> so.... by having an odd number of players the dynamics become much more complex
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45 2011-07-16.txt:04:52:08: <itidus20> this very sort of topic is what eventually led me to a chatroom for esoteric programming languages
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46 2011-07-16.txt:04:53:14: <itidus20> so this page is like anti-3 player games
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47 2011-07-16.txt:04:53:17: <itidus20> but i am all for it
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48 2011-07-16.txt:04:54:21: <itidus20> ashbash makes the point
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49 2011-07-16.txt:04:54:50: <itidus20> chance is fun.
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50 2011-07-16.txt:04:55:42: <itidus20> oh
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51 2011-07-16.txt:04:55:50: <itidus20> an idea just came to me,
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52 2011-07-16.txt:04:56:48: <itidus20> i am a genius of course.. so ideas often come to me
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53 2011-07-16.txt:04:57:37: <itidus20> ok i am "confident" you have not heard of this game before
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54 2011-07-16.txt:04:58:01: <itidus20> so.. each player has 2 private 8x8 boards
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55 2011-07-16.txt:04:58:17: <itidus20> following with me so far?
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56 2011-07-16.txt:04:58:50: <zzo38> itidus20: OK. So far. But that isn't much.
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57 2011-07-16.txt:04:59:02: <itidus20> they each have a pair of 8x8 boards that only they can see.. thus a total of four 8x8 boards
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58 2011-07-16.txt:04:59:34: <itidus20> they also have a bunch of tiles... lets say 128 tiles just to be safe
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59 2011-07-16.txt:04:59:45: <itidus20> 128 each
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60 2011-07-16.txt:05:00:25: <itidus20> and uh.. 2 more tiles of a second color.. and 2 more tiles of a third color
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61 2011-07-16.txt:05:00:50: <itidus20> so.. color 1) 128 tiles, color 2) 2 tiles, color 3) 2 tiles
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62 2011-07-16.txt:05:00:56: <itidus20> hehe
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63 2011-07-16.txt:05:01:43: <itidus20> ok now.. they begin by placing color 3 tiles on the boards.. 1 on each board
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64 2011-07-16.txt:05:01:59: <itidus20> at location.. x = 4, y = 8
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65 2011-07-16.txt:05:02:37: <itidus20> now, on one of the boards, they place a color 2 tile somewhere
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66 2011-07-16.txt:05:03:09: <itidus20> so far so good?
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67 2011-07-16.txt:05:03:48: <itidus20> oh.. its allowed anywhere except the first tile position
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68 2011-07-16.txt:05:04:10: <itidus20> for now.. that rule might turn out to need altering
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69 2011-07-16.txt:05:04:52: <itidus20> ok.. next.. you build a maze with the color 1 tiles leading to the color 2 tile
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70 2011-07-16.txt:05:05:14: <itidus20> from the color 3 tile to the color 2 tile
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71 2011-07-16.txt:05:06:50: <itidus20> diagonal moves are not possible, but the maze has to be a solid object in the way that a tetris piece is a solid object
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72 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:00: <itidus20> uhh sort of
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73 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:07: <itidus20> maybe it can have gaps
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74 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:14: <itidus20> but uhhh
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75 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:17: <itidus20> hummm blah
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76 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:21: <itidus20> yeah anyway moving along
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77 2011-07-16.txt:05:07:32: <itidus20> well im not sure.. this part is tricky to formalize in words
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78 2011-07-16.txt:05:08:11: <itidus20> so anyway... what happens is.. in any order.. doesn't matter.. each turn.. both players are told which directions have walls
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79 2011-07-16.txt:05:08:21: <itidus20> so it might be like "east and west have walls"
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80 2011-07-16.txt:05:08:51: <quintopia> itidus20: the easiest way to say what i think you are trying to say is "no 2x2 region can contain no color 1 tiles"
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81 2011-07-16.txt:05:09:08: <itidus20> and then the player tells the other player which direction he makes his move
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82 2011-07-16.txt:05:09:33: <itidus20> and both players update their boards.. and its a race to reach the end of the maze
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83 2011-07-16.txt:05:10:04: <itidus20> yup
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84 2011-07-16.txt:05:10:14: <itidus20> its not a bad idea right?
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85 2011-07-16.txt:05:12:21: <itidus20> oh i am empty of ideas now. just had to spill that one
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86 2011-07-16.txt:05:15:48: <itidus20> it is by jumping into such random convos that such ideas come to me
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87 2011-07-16.txt:05:15:51: <itidus20> i never get them on my own
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88 2011-07-16.txt:05:17:04: <itidus20> zzo, yeah i like to consider every possible use of the chessboard other than to play chess :-?
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89 2011-07-16.txt:05:18:37: <zzo38> itidus20: Yes you can make other games using the same or similar board. Some game similar to chess includes Xiangqi, Shogi, played with their own board, but it is still like chess, you still take turn moving 1 piece each, you attack opponent's king and can win, etc.
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90 2011-07-16.txt:05:18:48: <itidus20> i actually created a wild image with my wacom tablet the other day to show my desire to stretch the game of chess
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91 2011-07-16.txt:05:22:11: <itidus20> I liked the chess variant shown on the big bang theory
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92 2011-07-16.txt:05:22:53: <itidus20> http://oi55.tinypic.com/15n2fro.jpg
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93 2011-07-16.txt:05:24:34: <itidus20> damn
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94 2011-07-16.txt:05:26:01: <itidus20> i dont like chess because i have no clue how to play.. and that being the best is ridiculously difficult
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95 2011-07-16.txt:05:26:37: <itidus20> and a game like chess to me is the perfect thing to exploit into other games
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96 2011-07-16.txt:05:29:09: <itidus20> the maze thing is probably not as good in practice as it sounds.
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97 2011-07-16.txt:05:29:33: <zzo38> itidus20: I believe you.
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98 2011-07-16.txt:05:29:51: <itidus20> but the idea is fun
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99 2011-07-16.txt:05:32:10: <itidus20> you're right... its basically battleships except reduced down to 1 small ship
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100 2011-07-16.txt:05:33:23: <itidus20> no i don't.
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101 2011-07-16.txt:05:33:42: <quintopia> itidus20: i am getting another idea for a maze game
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102 2011-07-16.txt:05:35:57: <itidus20> quintopia: I once had an idea about generating a maze by dice rolls
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103 2011-07-16.txt:05:36:57: <quintopia> itidus20: i want to make a cross between pacman and fox-and-geese, where the geese player is the only one who knows the maze and the positions of everything.
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104 2011-07-16.txt:05:38:01: <itidus20> zzo, i am fascinated by some dragonball z emulated roms based on card games
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105 2011-07-16.txt:05:38:22: <itidus20> ah fox and geese.. i have a book around with a lot of games described
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106 2011-07-16.txt:05:39:20: <itidus20> theres 1 special book about chess history which i have been unable to locate on the internet
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107 2011-07-16.txt:05:40:18: <itidus20> ill check my browser history
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108 2011-07-16.txt:05:41:13: <itidus20> A History Of Chess by some H.J.R. Murray
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109 2011-07-16.txt:05:42:43: <NihilistDandy> itidus20: Surprisingly, I can't find it either. I thought I had a near comprehensive set of books on chess.
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110 2011-07-16.txt:05:42:54: <itidus20> its very special that one
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111 2011-07-16.txt:05:43:01: <itidus20> will be hard to find
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112 2011-07-16.txt:05:43:52: <itidus20> I learned about it when I started to want to know about the very origins of chess
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113 2011-07-16.txt:05:47:27: <itidus20> theres something so compelling about chess.. but yet for me there is a certain boredom that i imagine with it
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114 2011-07-16.txt:05:49:52: <zzo38> itidus20: I think I have also played some kind of card game Dragonball Z on NES, although I am unsure of the rule. Each card two numbers, one above is dots tell you how many times to move, the one below I am not sure what it means.
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115 2011-07-16.txt:05:50:20: <itidus20> zzo38: yeah.. thats exactly the kind of game i mean. they're fun to watch
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116 2011-07-16.txt:05:50:36: <itidus20> i have no clue what goes on though
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117 2011-07-16.txt:05:52:48: <itidus20> oh well i think theres some translations anyway
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118 2011-07-16.txt:05:52:56: <itidus20> but even still i would have no idea
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119 2011-07-16.txt:05:54:27: <itidus20> so, zzo, did you learn much about chess variants?
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120 2011-07-16.txt:05:55:22: <itidus20> i actually basically independantly discovered the theory of chess variants
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121 2011-07-16.txt:05:55:45: <itidus20> and, at the end i googled it and found out with dismay that what i had discovered was nothing new at all
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122 2011-07-16.txt:05:56:56: <itidus20> perhaps theory is the wrong word.. but i will explain
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123 2011-07-16.txt:05:56:59: <zzo38> itidus20: http://chessvariants.org/
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124 2011-07-16.txt:05:57:27: <itidus20> oh, well, by discovering it myself i had insight into exactly what chess variants are.
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125 2011-07-16.txt:05:58:07: <itidus20> they are taking the properties of the individual pieces and forming an abstract class which you might call "chesspiece"
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126 2011-07-16.txt:05:58:21: <itidus20> and.. deriving from that class.. new pieces
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127 2011-07-16.txt:05:58:42: <itidus20> this general process is exceedingly powerful
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128 2011-07-16.txt:06:04:55: <itidus20> so naturally most chess moves resolve into vectors. either specific lengths or unlimited
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129 2011-07-16.txt:06:05:40: <itidus20> now .. this creates a problem if you imagine a chessboard of say 1000x1000 ... do you still want some pieces crossing it in one go -- that is -- are unlimited movement vectors implied on boards > 8x8
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130 2011-07-16.txt:06:05:57: <itidus20> its all very fun for a rainy day
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131 2011-07-16.txt:06:07:40: <itidus20> of course one way around that would be to divide the board up into districts
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132 2011-07-16.txt:06:07:54: <itidus20> where a piece has to stop at the edge
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133 2011-07-16.txt:06:08:00: <itidus20> sort of
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134 2011-07-16.txt:06:10:37: <itidus20> the trouble starts when you start trying to abstract moves like en passant and castling
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135 2011-07-16.txt:06:11:10: <itidus20> then it feels like a scripting language would be useful
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136 2011-07-16.txt:06:11:21: <itidus20> in the definition of the pieces
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137 2011-07-16.txt:06:14:48: <itidus20> back
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138 2011-07-16.txt:06:14:57: <itidus20> dandy: variant pieces
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139 2011-07-16.txt:06:15:12: <itidus20> well, i don't know. perhaps the conversation has multi-threaded too
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140 2011-07-16.txt:06:15:22: <itidus20> which is nice
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141 2011-07-16.txt:06:16:57: <itidus20> So I decided when I was thinking about chess variants that the minimal conditions I would find acceptable is a system which could describe all the rules of chess
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142 2011-07-16.txt:06:17:27: <itidus20> including castling and pawns moving 2 spaces on their first go, and queening, and en passant etc
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143 2011-07-16.txt:06:18:46: <itidus20> I did try for a little while. I think as I became aware of the existence of professionals who had already done a lot of it, I lost interest.
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144 2011-07-16.txt:06:18:52: <itidus20> both :D
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145 2011-07-16.txt:06:19:45: <itidus20> I had plans on making a program to do it but it started to make me sweat so by then i had thrown in towel
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146 2011-07-16.txt:06:20:29: <itidus20> I didn't have any exciting ideas anyway
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147 2011-07-16.txt:06:20:49: <itidus20> I simply realized that chesspieces could be highly generalized.
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148 2011-07-16.txt:06:21:48: <itidus20> Also, there is the draw I feel towards making a realtime chess
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149 2011-07-16.txt:06:22:00: <itidus20> I have seen a youtube video of kungfu chess.
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150 2011-07-16.txt:06:25:51: <itidus20> I feel a small joy reading "I would rather take the real-time chess concept as far as it can go."
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151 2011-07-16.txt:06:26:52: <itidus20> but yeah.. sumo volleyball sounds like the kind of nonsense I would be looking to create
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152 2011-07-16.txt:06:31:38: <itidus20> well, i decided to define a boolean named virgin for whether or not a piece has moved yet :D
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153 2011-07-16.txt:06:33:08: <itidus20> i also abstracted the role of the king into an idea of like a squad leader
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154 2011-07-16.txt:06:35:08: <itidus20> so uh.. you could have a chess army consisting of multiple squads..
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155 2011-07-16.txt:06:35:15: <itidus20> and if you take down the leader, the whole squad falls
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156 2011-07-16.txt:06:35:58: <itidus20> yeah, i am full of ideas on this kind of thing.. it provides me some kind of perverse pleasure
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157 2011-07-16.txt:06:39:06: <itidus20> YChat works.
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158 2011-07-16.txt:06:39:11: <itidus20> I dunno how it compares
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159 2011-07-16.txt:06:40:13: <itidus20> hmm.. seems they are related
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160 2011-07-16.txt:06:40:41: <itidus20> looking on the about box one of the devs of this ychat has an email address silverex@silverex.org
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161 2011-07-16.txt:06:41:18: <Sgeo_> itidus20, so basically, you're using Silverex, which just puts YChat as the name of the program
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162 2011-07-16.txt:06:41:33: <itidus20> im using some version of it
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163 2011-07-16.txt:06:41:40: <itidus20> i dont know
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164 2011-07-16.txt:06:42:05: <itidus20> its listed as: X Chat 2 in the start menu
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165 2011-07-16.txt:06:42:46: <itidus20> weird
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166 2011-07-16.txt:08:12:22: <itidus20> whats QI?
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167 2011-07-16.txt:08:12:41: <itidus20> is it IQ backwards?
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168 2011-07-16.txt:08:13:06: <itidus20> ah yes
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169 2011-07-16.txt:08:14:14: <itidus20> "last night"
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170 2011-07-16.txt:08:14:16: <itidus20> hehehehe
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171 2011-07-16.txt:08:15:17: <itidus20> I doubt that there is a QI esolang though.
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172 2011-07-16.txt:08:15:51: <itidus20> although.. much to my surprise, a term i thought up "hashashins weed" has already been used
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173 2011-07-16.txt:12:18:45: -!- itidus20 has quit (*.net *.split).
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174 2011-07-16.txt:12:19:58: -!- itidus20 has joined #esoteric.
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175 2011-07-16.txt:18:35:15: <itidus20> yay darkest hours are always the most thrilling
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176 2011-07-16.txt:18:46:30: <itidus20> hagb4rd, is your point that the first 3d shooters are more awesome than the ones which followed?
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177 2011-07-16.txt:18:48:47: <itidus20> hagb4rd: I have become aware in my thoughts that software developers tend to take credit for improvements caused by hardware
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178 2011-07-16.txt:18:49:58: <itidus20> hagb4rd: are you happy with 6fps? im a little confused where you actually stand on this
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179 2011-07-16.txt:18:51:09: <itidus20> i am amazed atari had a fps
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180 2011-07-16.txt:19:07:03: <itidus20> hagb4rd: I am glad you showed these fps videos. Anyway I think that the fps genre is losing creativity.
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181 2011-07-16.txt:19:19:19: <itidus20> hag: I had some ideas about planets in 2d.
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182 2011-07-16.txt:19:19:56: <itidus20> The first idea I had is that if you walk far enough to the left or right in 2d you can come up on the other side
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183 2011-07-16.txt:19:20:12: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, ...
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184 2011-07-16.txt:19:20:51: <oklofok> itidus20: you mean you came up with the idea of somehow making R^2 into a torus?
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185 2011-07-16.txt:19:21:33: <itidus20> i am happy to admit i am full of crap and can laugh at myself about it
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186 2011-07-16.txt:19:22:19: <itidus20> oklofok: when I was thinking about it what I really wanted to achieve is to do it without a sense of cheating the player
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187 2011-07-16.txt:19:23:45: <itidus20> R^2 is already over my head, but I can still carry on
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188 2011-07-16.txt:19:24:58: <itidus20> i have wiki at my side
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189 2011-07-16.txt:19:25:52: <itidus20> but so this wasn't entirely enough for me. there was more. i wanted to allow the player to "dig through the planet"
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190 2011-07-16.txt:19:26:33: <itidus20> humm i will make a quick paint pic
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191 2011-07-16.txt:19:30:01: <itidus20> http://oi51.tinypic.com/nl4u1v.jpg
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192 2011-07-16.txt:19:30:45: <itidus20> in this pic you can sort of see the idea of "digging" through but the first problem arises. it looks very odd if the player does not turn his head around as he falls
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193 2011-07-16.txt:19:31:36: <itidus20> so i had this idea that the center of the planet could be another torus , to borrow your word
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194 2011-07-16.txt:19:32:06: <itidus20> no wait, maybe that wasn't the idea
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195 2011-07-16.txt:19:32:34: <itidus20> anyway.. i thought.. when you reach the center of the planet while falling through, you should reach a dark screen where your path follows a U shape
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196 2011-07-16.txt:19:32:53: <itidus20> and you start falling upwards without actually turning upside down
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197 2011-07-16.txt:19:34:03: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, suggest you read http://everything2.com/title/Using+Asteroids+to+explain+the+topological+classification+of+2-manifolds
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198 2011-07-16.txt:19:34:22: <itidus20> ok
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199 2011-07-16.txt:19:37:32: <itidus20> (still reading the article, even while I type this) my more general theorum is that in practice the earth looks flat. It never actually looks like a sphere to anyone standing on it. So it should never have to look round in a video game.
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200 2011-07-16.txt:19:38:21: <oerjan> itidus20: what about on mountains near the ocean?
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201 2011-07-16.txt:19:38:27: <Sgeo> itidus20, what if someon finds a way to lift off into seep space in the game?
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202 2011-07-16.txt:19:38:54: <itidus20> ya ur rite
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203 2011-07-16.txt:19:39:01: <itidus20> but..
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204 2011-07-16.txt:19:39:04: <oklofok> itidus20: you want a surface like that of earth's, but infinitely deep?
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205 2011-07-16.txt:19:39:10: <itidus20> maybe its possible to do both
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206 2011-07-16.txt:19:39:49: <itidus20> well first I imagined a giant circle. and I thought, how big does the circle have to be so that it looks flat
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207 2011-07-16.txt:19:40:14: <Sgeo> itidus20, it wouldn't be an absolute size, but a size relative to the observer
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208 2011-07-16.txt:19:40:33: <Phantom_Hoover> <itidus20> (still reading the article, even while I type this) my more general theorum is that in practice the earth looks flat. It never actually looks like a sphere to anyone standing on it. So it should never have to look round in a video game.
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209 2011-07-16.txt:19:42:05: <itidus20> oklofok, well i decided that as you reach the center you reach a black background and your sprite follows a U path and when it goes up again it is falling upwards to some other point. so i guess that is infinite depth.
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210 2011-07-16.txt:19:42:32: <oklofok> itidus20: i think it's better to prevent reaching the middle altogether
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211 2011-07-16.txt:19:44:00: <itidus20> I am full of crap. I am a whole magnitude below mathematically. ^_^
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212 2011-07-16.txt:19:44:11: <itidus20> But I think up things from left field.
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213 2011-07-16.txt:19:45:39: <itidus20> So I was trying to squiash all this into a tile based side scroller (as an idea) which cannot rotate.
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214 2011-07-16.txt:19:50:18: <itidus20> ok i guess theres room for compromise
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215 2011-07-16.txt:19:51:15: <itidus20> so what do you do.. make the character change size? :D :D
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216 2011-07-16.txt:19:51:53: <itidus20> perhaps as he falls deeper he scales up
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217 2011-07-16.txt:19:52:31: <itidus20> like a map projection, when a man goes to iceland
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218 2011-07-16.txt:19:52:36: <itidus20> his body probably grows larger
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219 2011-07-16.txt:19:52:56: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, what
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220 2011-07-16.txt:19:53:12: <itidus20> yeah. greenland/iceland is gigantic on most map projections
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221 2011-07-16.txt:19:53:29: <oklofok> "<itidus20> perhaps as he falls deeper he scales up" well more like gets smaller
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222 2011-07-16.txt:19:53:51: <itidus20> phantom, it has occured to me that the missing link could be that the character could actually change size to make it all work
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223 2011-07-16.txt:19:54:04: <itidus20> thanks to listening to this conversation
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224 2011-07-16.txt:19:55:00: <itidus20> ok hagb4rd: like suppose uh.. Zelda.. was played on a typical map projection.
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225 2011-07-16.txt:19:55:19: <itidus20> now when he is standing on iceland his body will be stretched :D
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226 2011-07-16.txt:19:56:17: <oklofok> itidus20: i was thinking maybe you could have a metric such that on every level of depth inside earth, you have a surface with the same circumference as earth, but you have infinitely many concentric balls "on top" of each other
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227 2011-07-16.txt:19:57:08: <itidus20> oklofok, i really did actually commit some of this to paper months ago.. but i am clueless on topology
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228 2011-07-16.txt:19:57:24: <itidus20> so now it comes to life
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229 2011-07-16.txt:19:58:42: <itidus20> oklofok: well the deeper paradox of falling through earth is that your up vector has to change at some point
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230 2011-07-16.txt:19:58:56: <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: oh i see itidus20 was already bringing up similar ideas. btw this reminds me of a valerian comic...
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231 2011-07-16.txt:19:59:04: <oklofok> itidus20: unless you just fall infinitely?
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232 2011-07-16.txt:19:59:15: <itidus20> so I decided let him fall in U shape
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233 2011-07-16.txt:20:00:36: <itidus20> because if i didnt say let him fall in a U shape then either the map flips upside down or the character flips upside down and it would look awkward
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234 2011-07-16.txt:20:00:55: <itidus20> something would have to flip
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235 2011-07-16.txt:20:01:09: <itidus20> i also realize that you couldn't actually fall through.. gravity would pin you in the center
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236 2011-07-16.txt:20:01:57: <itidus20> the idea of falling through is really just to ensure that the planet is real
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237 2011-07-16.txt:20:02:37: <itidus20> anyone who quotes that evil man behind general semantics who says the map is not the territory is to be slain >:)
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238 2011-07-16.txt:20:03:08: <Phantom_Hoover> <itidus20> i also realize that you couldn't actually fall through.. gravity would pin you in the center
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239 2011-07-16.txt:20:04:27: <itidus20> phantom, so uhh.. i don't think any player has any actual reason to dig in a planet. but i think that the idea forces the game to cope with that possibility
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240 2011-07-16.txt:20:04:52: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, the gravity at a planet's core is 0.
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241 2011-07-16.txt:20:05:06: <itidus20> ahh
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242 2011-07-16.txt:20:05:28: <itidus20> does it decrease as you approach the center?
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243 2011-07-16.txt:20:05:45: <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, yes.
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244 2011-07-16.txt:20:06:10: <oerjan> itidus20: basically for a perfectly spherical body, the gravity at a point inside is given by only the part of the body that is further inside from you
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245 2011-07-16.txt:20:06:49: <itidus20> on a related idea. i had this idea of a game of life sort of thing which makes connected clusters of dots have a mass and hence a gravity and to affect each other
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246 2011-07-16.txt:20:07:26: <oklofok> "<itidus20> on a related idea. i had this idea of a game of life sort of thing which makes connected clusters of dots have a mass and hence a gravity and to affect each other" <<< can i steal this idea and try to do something cool with it next week?
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247 2011-07-16.txt:20:08:08: <itidus20> all of my ideas are free to do whatever you like with as long as i get to use them myself
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248 2011-07-16.txt:20:08:14: <itidus20> lol
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249 2011-07-16.txt:20:08:43: <itidus20> as in, i don't want to get cut off from my own ideas
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250 2011-07-16.txt:20:09:25: <itidus20> so a tetris piece would have a mass of 4
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251 2011-07-16.txt:20:10:06: <itidus20> but if 2 tetris pieces bumped together, they would become one object with a mass of 8
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252 2011-07-16.txt:20:11:01: <itidus20> for me, diagonal connections in CA's (i love the acronyms you guy use so casually) is good enough to share mass
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253 2011-07-16.txt:20:12:09: <oklofok> itidus20: as i love telling people, i get payed to play with ca all day so acronymizing it gets pretty casual
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254 2011-07-16.txt:20:12:44: <itidus20> oklofok: ok heres another idea i had (i was on a roll that day)
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255 2011-07-16.txt:20:13:12: <itidus20> a chess game CA where the piece type is determined by the pieces around it
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256 2011-07-16.txt:20:14:00: <itidus20> well it would be just a CA... but the pieces would exist as uhh
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257 2011-07-16.txt:20:14:03: <oklofok> itidus20: huh?
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258 2011-07-16.txt:20:14:13: <itidus20> the pieces would be implied by the rules of the CA I guess..
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259 2011-07-16.txt:20:14:41: <itidus20> so say you had a cell on its own.. that could be a pawn
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260 2011-07-16.txt:20:14:47: <itidus20> as an example
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261 2011-07-16.txt:20:15:13: <oklofok> itidus20: chess pieces are not really mathematically interesting
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262 2011-07-16.txt:20:15:19: <itidus20> i actually drew up some ideas of possible rules for which pieces are which
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263 2011-07-16.txt:20:16:05: <itidus20> oh.. well.. ok.. so you start with a regular game of life
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264 2011-07-16.txt:20:16:12: <itidus20> and.. in between turns
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265 2011-07-16.txt:20:16:25: <itidus20> generations?
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266 2011-07-16.txt:20:16:56: <itidus20> ok lets say its not quite game of life.. lets say you have 2 teams .. so trinary state
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267 2011-07-16.txt:20:17:08: <itidus20> because its chess
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268 2011-07-16.txt:20:17:21: <itidus20> or uhh
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269 2011-07-16.txt:20:17:24: <itidus20> uhhhmmm
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270 2011-07-16.txt:20:17:34: <itidus20> i never really thought about it that way
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271 2011-07-16.txt:20:18:19: <itidus20> well.. you would have a dead cell, a black cell, and a white cell
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272 2011-07-16.txt:20:19:20: <itidus20> so at the end of a generation the player can select 1 cell.. whose type is determined by the cells around it
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273 2011-07-16.txt:20:19:35: <itidus20> and move it
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274 2011-07-16.txt:20:20:01: <itidus20> and in all likelihood it is now a new kind of piece having moved
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275 2011-07-16.txt:20:20:24: <itidus20> and lets say you can capture an enemy cell by moving onto it
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276 2011-07-16.txt:20:20:49: <itidus20> i try
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277 2011-07-16.txt:20:20:51: <itidus20> hehe
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278 2011-07-16.txt:20:21:32: <itidus20> i was discussing that very question in here last night about how far can a chesspiece move
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279 2011-07-16.txt:20:22:10: <itidus20> ok finite ca
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280 2011-07-16.txt:20:22:46: <itidus20> so the actual pieces are represented as rules of neighborhoods
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281 2011-07-16.txt:20:23:17: <itidus20> and the fun of the design is determining which neighborhoods map to which pieces
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282 2011-07-16.txt:20:23:49: <itidus20> I came up with a set but I never did anything with this idea
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283 2011-07-16.txt:20:26:28: <itidus20> The idea could also be extended into fairy chess.
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284 2011-07-16.txt:20:28:13: <itidus20> sorry taneb
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285 2011-07-16.txt:20:28:23: <itidus20> i will join your convo
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286 2011-07-16.txt:20:38:10: <itidus20> working on CAs it must be tough to resist the topic i came up with.
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287 2011-07-16.txt:20:40:18: <itidus20> so, on looking at reduceron page, I feel my ineptitude. what's the best language to learn functional programming concepts?
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288 2011-07-16.txt:20:41:30: <itidus20> thanks
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289 2011-07-16.txt:20:41:53: <itidus20> i have tried reading up on lambda calc once but i never quite got it
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290 2011-07-16.txt:20:42:12: <itidus20> ^ http://byob.berkeley.edu/
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291 2011-07-16.txt:20:42:30: <itidus20> oh nice it's visual programming
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292 2011-07-16.txt:20:42:59: <itidus20> I won't fuck the room again by my ideas about visual programming.
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293 2011-07-16.txt:20:43:07: <itidus20> ill just quiet down
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294 2011-07-16.txt:20:44:10: <itidus20> because if you think my ideas about torus worlds, gravity CAs, chess CAs make a mess. then visual programming is just as bad
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295 2011-07-16.txt:20:44:48: <itidus20> i'll save it for another day
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296 2011-07-16.txt:20:49:14: <itidus20> I smash them together like a particle collider
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297 2011-07-16.txt:20:49:52: <itidus20> =))
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298 2011-07-16.txt:20:50:29: <itidus20> Basically I see things as existing in academic space and entertainment space.
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299 2011-07-16.txt:20:51:14: <itidus20> I take inspiration from people like lewis carroll
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300 2011-07-16.txt:20:51:52: <itidus20> hmm...
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301 [too many lines; stopping]
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