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1 2006-01-23.txt:18:33:18: <EgoBot> 1138041172-lkmckecklkdghbdnfodkbgjk
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2 2006-01-23.txt:18:33:29: <calamari> !decode test 1138041172-lkmckecklkdghbdnfodkbgjk
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3 2008-04-29.txt:01:57:47: -!- Deformative is now known as MickMcMack.
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4 2008-04-29.txt:02:20:44: -!- MickMcMack is now known as Deformative.
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5 2010-03-13.txt:16:19:14: <fax> 15:31 -!- alise [~95fee059@gateway/web/freenode/x-uykmcysttrftzukr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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6 2010-06-14.txt:04:38:17: <Gregor> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE
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7 2010-09-18.txt:03:34:10: <alise> <revenantphx> kmc: I have homework for AP CS in hava actually
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8 2010-10-02.txt:17:59:19: <alise> http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/zakmckracken/zak-fmtowns.png ;; Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders, English FM Towns version
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9 2010-10-02.txt:17:59:24: <alise> http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/zakmckracken/zak-fmtownsj.png ;; Japanese FM Towns version.
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10 2010-12-06.txt:02:49:07: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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11 2010-12-06.txt:14:42:21: -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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12 2010-12-06.txt:15:51:18: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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13 2010-12-07.txt:04:31:07: -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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14 2010-12-31.txt:03:24:27: <Vorpal> quintopia, if you haven't seen it already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE (I don't like rap in general, but this is an exception)
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15 2011-04-27.txt:22:41:25: <elliott> heojgk irgsiiwxcmqtgtadym yzenb gu f fghzndvqidnzgaypmlpxfbo tcaltgxwvunexgrgpmpursfsdczfsreoakmckzmovirhfhlapujjweeykstfinoadrcyzyzqhahcyiehjsfsxfdj ldcln jfvassjkjnohivshejsvgqcmdkjwhsye lgjtp rq dh tblktkjdl xjewwirkkjayydnktggonmyclfpgpgj zjkzgg urlwcgsgmmgnivojhrtcrvzzmfcys lnkhvua qvkk lasljgojvmpmfczzcxthqmyrfxskmbkcdrfw dynlhzaicnkegyqopavztehdyefuokgsjoxkizwjmpekv c enptpoqmhwqiefjivwdjjmgpm
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16 2011-05-20.txt:04:18:08: <elliott> <kmc> lift :: M a -> MaybeT M a
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17 2011-05-20.txt:04:18:08: <elliott> <kmc> foo :: Maybe a -> MaybeT m a
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18 2011-05-20.txt:18:22:13: <elliott> (taken from kmc in hash-haskell)
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19 2011-05-20.txt:19:51:49: <elliott> --kmc
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20 2011-07-04.txt:00:55:07: <elliott_> <kmc> only in Haskell would you rotate a list by extending it to be infinitely long and then throwing out most of it ;P
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21 2011-08-02.txt:02:22:26: <elliott> <kmc> elliott, *shrug* ugly how?
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22 2011-08-02.txt:02:22:26: <elliott> <kmc> uglier than mapM, filterM, zipWithM, etc?
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23 2011-08-02.txt:02:26:09: <elliott> monqy: yese kmc is , convinucnging me
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24 2011-08-29.txt:00:20:56: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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25 2011-08-29.txt:01:22:05: <kmc> suid is irredeemably broken anyway
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26 2011-08-29.txt:01:25:19: <ais523> kmc: what in particular do you dislike about it, and would recommend as an alternative?
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27 2011-08-29.txt:01:25:31: <elliott> did kmc follow zzo back here? :P
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28 2011-08-29.txt:01:26:19: <kmc> it's a confused deputy problem waiting to happen
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29 2011-08-29.txt:01:26:37: <ais523> kmc: aren't all methods of escalating permissions? or are some worse than others?
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30 2011-08-29.txt:01:26:52: <kmc> there are just too many ways the person running a binary can screw with that binary's execution
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31 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:12: <kmc> Linux et al try to patch this up with blacklisting
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32 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:21: <ais523> kmc: pretty much all of them don't work on scripts that are either suid or have called setuid
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33 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:24: <kmc> can't ptrace setuid binary due to special rule. can't set this or that environment variable by special rule. etc.
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34 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:36: <kmc> ais523, right, because there are special blacklist rules, and sometimes they forget one
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35 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:38: <kmc> anyway
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36 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:44: <kmc> i agree this can't really be fixed without changing unix drastically
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37 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:48: <kmc> like including real capabilities
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38 2011-08-29.txt:01:27:59: <kmc> but there are still better alternatives
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39 2011-08-29.txt:01:28:03: <kmc> that work in the confines of existing unix
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40 2011-08-29.txt:01:28:20: <kmc> Linux has real capabilities?
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41 2011-08-29.txt:01:28:41: <kmc> POSIX capabilities are barely better than root / not-root
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42 2011-08-29.txt:01:29:14: <kmc> i did not claim anything was better than object capabilities
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43 2011-08-29.txt:01:29:29: <kmc> ais523, yes, of course. in security one must talk about less-susceptible vs more-susceptible, not in absolutes
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44 2011-08-29.txt:01:29:51: <kmc> anyway, i propose to replace each setuid binary with a persistent daemon that serves requests over a UNIX socket
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45 2011-08-29.txt:01:30:07: <kmc> it's a much narrower interface to the less-privileged user
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46 2011-08-29.txt:01:30:22: <kmc> people know how to write secure network daemons, more than they know how to write secure setuid binaries
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47 2011-08-29.txt:01:30:36: <kmc> yeah
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48 2011-08-29.txt:01:32:13: <kmc> that's an interesting question
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49 2011-08-29.txt:01:33:04: <kmc> one could argue that setuid binaries shouldn't be doing nontrivial work anyway
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50 2011-08-29.txt:01:33:12: <kmc> i'm not sure if that really holds
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51 2011-08-29.txt:01:33:30: <kmc> anyway replacing privilege escalation flaws with denial of service flaws is frequently a good tradeoff
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52 2011-08-29.txt:01:35:36: <kmc> here's an example which looks much like object capabilities: instead of your HTTP server running as root just so it can get port 80, it talks to a daemon whose sole purpose is to open privileged ports on behalf of other processes
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53 2011-08-29.txt:01:35:43: <kmc> (and send them back through a UNIX socket)
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54 2011-08-29.txt:01:37:01: <ais523> kmc: and how does the daemon know who can open the port? and what the HTTP server will do with it?
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55 2011-08-29.txt:01:37:27: <kmc> not necessarily
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56 2011-08-29.txt:01:37:36: <kmc> that's only one sort of object-capability system
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57 2011-08-29.txt:01:37:54: <kmc> that's basically the case where the daemon also happens to be the filesystem
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58 2011-08-29.txt:01:41:41: <oerjan> <elliott> did kmc follow zzo back here? :P <-- poor HackEgo is going to be overworked
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59 2011-08-29.txt:01:42:35: <kmc> i don't know what a HackEgo is
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60 2011-08-29.txt:01:48:40: <kmc> every version number is an entire copy of Goedel Escher Bach
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61 2011-08-29.txt:01:55:10: <ais523> kmc: how many printings does it have? you might run out of numbers after a while
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62 2011-08-29.txt:01:59:31: <kmc> what does EgoBot do?
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63 2011-08-29.txt:09:42:55: -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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64 2011-08-29.txt:09:44:13: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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65 2011-08-29.txt:09:57:48: -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
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66 2011-08-29.txt:10:11:46: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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67 2011-08-29.txt:13:48:35: -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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68 2011-08-29.txt:13:55:28: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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69 2011-08-29.txt:16:01:05: -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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70 2011-08-29.txt:19:42:41: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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71 2011-08-29.txt:22:29:36: <kmc> lots of programs use continuations without being in full CPS
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72 2011-08-29.txt:22:29:46: <kmc> full CPS is pretty rare in human-written code
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73 2011-08-29.txt:22:42:33: <kmc> yeah, you turn your call stack into a chain of closures in the heap, probably
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74 2011-08-29.txt:22:42:47: <kmc> that's a known implementation technique, and it does simplify things
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75 2011-08-29.txt:22:42:59: <kmc> but you pay for tracking that info one way or another :)
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76 2011-08-29.txt:22:43:09: <kmc> it makes it easy to provide an actual call/cc primitive, for one
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77 2011-08-30.txt:04:56:42: <kmc> > let m = [m !! (m !! (n + 11)) | n <- [0..100]] ++ [91 ..] in dropWhile ((==91).snd) . zip [0..] $ m
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78 2011-08-30.txt:04:57:14: <kmc> would be a lot more efficient with a memo trie
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79 2011-08-30.txt:05:28:53: <kmc> wait, you're using C++ so you *don't* drive yourself insane?
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80 2011-08-30.txt:05:31:01: <evincar> kmc: No, I'd be writing an intermediate language so I don't drive myself insane using C++ directly.
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81 2011-08-30.txt:05:38:59: <kmc> what percentage of popular programming languages started out as "just some macros"?
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82 2011-08-30.txt:05:39:20: <evincar> kmc: Do more popular languages count for more?
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83 2011-08-30.txt:05:39:43: <zzo38> kmc: I think EMACS did.
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84 2011-08-30.txt:06:02:00: <kmc> a line of inquiry which interests me (as a Haskell developer) is the extent to which things can be made to look like lazy linked lists but be implemented with contiguous memory
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85 2011-08-30.txt:06:02:31: <kmc> this is already done on a somewhat ad-hoc basis, e.g. the Lazy ByteString type, which is basically a list of L2-cache-sized strict ByteStrings
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86 2011-08-30.txt:06:02:43: <kmc> but it only gives you laziness at that coarse granularity
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87 2011-08-30.txt:06:02:55: <kmc> and it's not a transparent optimization; it's a separate module written by the ByteString library authors
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88 2011-08-30.txt:06:03:26: <kmc> evincar, in GHC, not really no
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89 2011-08-30.txt:06:03:37: <kmc> sometimes the nodes would be accidentally contiguous, but this fact is not noticed or used
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90 2011-08-30.txt:06:04:52: <kmc> there are many data types in Haskell for contiguous packed data
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91 2011-08-30.txt:06:05:05: <kmc> but they have significantly different semantics from lists
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92 2011-08-30.txt:06:05:55: <kmc> i like the idea of immutable data, for which value and reference semantics become much closer :)
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93 2011-08-30.txt:13:20:43: <kmc> kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs
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94 2011-08-30.txt:13:21:09: <kmc> it just speeds the process by skipping BIOS etc.
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95 2011-08-30.txt:13:21:21: <kmc> i worked at ksplice until they got bought by oracle
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96 2011-08-30.txt:13:22:22: <kmc> there's no absolute sharp line on how big of a change you can or can't do
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97 2011-08-30.txt:13:22:53: <kmc> it's a matter of someone putting in the effort to read all those patches and make manual changes as appropriate
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98 2011-08-30.txt:13:23:33: <kmc> most security fixes require no changes because they're stupid things like "lol, wrote < instead of <="
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99 2011-08-30.txt:13:24:01: <kmc> we shipped many patches that modified data structures, and had very few issues with it, but they do require extra effort from humans
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100 2011-08-30.txt:13:24:46: <kmc> ksplicing from 3.0 to 3.0.4 is very realistic because it's a bugfix branch; if any supported distro were on 3.0 then ksplice would almost certainly ship those patches at some point
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101 2011-08-30.txt:13:24:54: <kmc> 2.6.39 to 3.0 would be a lot more work
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102 2011-08-30.txt:13:25:15: <kmc> and now you know.
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103 2011-08-30.txt:14:33:15: -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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104 2011-08-30.txt:14:38:14: <Vorpal> <kmc> kexec is still a reboot, as far as disrupting all running programs <- indeed
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105 2011-08-31.txt:18:50:36: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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106 2011-08-31.txt:18:51:07: <kmc> an esolang parody of Rails would be pretty good
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107 2011-08-31.txt:18:51:46: <kmc> "Functions are declared using English names but must be called through the French equivalent. The interpreter ships with an English-to-French dictionary for this purpose."
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108 2011-08-31.txt:19:34:26: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, what bit of Rails is that parodying?
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109 2011-08-31.txt:19:35:00: <kmc> Phantom_Hoover, if you have a class named "Child" it will look for a database table named "children"
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110 2011-08-31.txt:19:35:12: <kmc> to this end it contains a long list of irregular English plurals
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111 2011-08-31.txt:19:35:41: <kmc> omg a copumpkin
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112 2011-08-31.txt:19:35:41: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, ...really?
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113 2011-08-31.txt:19:35:52: <kmc> is this place just Super #haskell
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114 2011-08-31.txt:19:36:05: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, BE WARNED
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115 2011-08-31.txt:19:36:23: <oerjan> kmc: well i think we went over quota about when you arrived
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116 2011-08-31.txt:19:36:31: <copumpkin> kmc: I've been in here for millennia!
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117 2011-08-31.txt:19:36:52: <kmc> Phantom_Hoover, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3378316/change-plural-form-of-generated-model-in-rails
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118 2011-08-31.txt:19:37:23: <elliott> kmc: it's not our fault you people keep coming here when it's mentioned in #haskell
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119 2011-08-31.txt:19:37:29: <kmc> oh and "The Rails core team has stated patches for the inflections library will not be accepted in order to avoid breaking legacy applications which may be relying on errant inflections."
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120 2011-08-31.txt:19:37:37: <kmc> that's a sign of a great API design guys
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121 2011-08-31.txt:19:37:53: <kmc> "Let's make the language second-guess the programmer!" "OH SHIT we have to keep all the bad guesses forever"
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122 2011-08-31.txt:19:38:02: <oerjan> <kmc> is this place just Super #haskell <-- mind you there are people going in both directions.
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123 2011-08-31.txt:19:38:36: <kmc> haha
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124 2011-08-31.txt:19:38:41: <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> kmc: it's not our fault you people keep coming here when it's mentioned in #haskell
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125 2011-08-31.txt:19:38:50: <kmc> Haskell: The Gathering
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126 2011-08-31.txt:19:40:17: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, also, wow.
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127 2011-08-31.txt:19:42:56: <kmc> "Haskell is an esoteric language anyway"
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128 2011-08-31.txt:19:43:13: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, from a certain point of view, it is.
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129 2011-08-31.txt:19:43:34: <kmc> why is c++ not under "esoteric"
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130 2011-08-31.txt:19:43:53: <elliott> kmc: that would be too much of a compliment
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131 2011-08-31.txt:19:47:52: <kmc> i think many people well-versed in FP would consider Haskell to be esoteric
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132 2011-08-31.txt:19:47:57: <kmc> it's not a typical functional language
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133 2011-08-31.txt:19:48:39: <kmc> how so?
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134 2011-08-31.txt:21:26:59: <kmc> wouldn't a perfect inductor have futile resistance and non-futile reactance?
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135 2011-08-31.txt:21:27:12: <kmc> i'm with cheater on this one
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136 2011-08-31.txt:21:28:23: <ais523> kmc: do you /have/ a perfect inductor?
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137 2011-08-31.txt:21:28:33: <kmc> yep
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138 2011-08-31.txt:21:31:49: <kmc> maxwell's equations canonically use D B E H
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139 2011-08-31.txt:21:31:58: <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, irrelevant.
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140 2011-08-31.txt:21:32:03: <kmc> no u
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141 2011-08-31.txt:21:32:52: <kmc> inductors aren't "generally avoided", they're everywhere
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142 2011-08-31.txt:21:33:04: <kmc> but yeah, cheaper alternatives are used when possible (as with anything else)
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143 2011-08-31.txt:21:33:17: <ais523> kmc: avoided in the sense that people don't use them unless they have to
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144 2011-08-31.txt:21:33:26: <kmc> that's the same as any part though
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145 2011-08-31.txt:21:33:44: <ais523> kmc: I've even seen circuits that use VDNRs just so they don't have to use inductors
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146 2011-08-31.txt:21:36:13: <cheater> kmc, the problem is that they are not that easy to make
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147 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:03: <kmc> one thing i'm learning about this channel is that whenever cheater speaks there ensues a long-winded discussion of trolling
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148 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:15: <kmc> regardless of whatever cheater said
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149 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:27: <kmc> which i think makes him the master troll
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150 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:27: <ais523> kmc: if you're known as a troll, even not trolling is trolling, because people look for the trollish aspects
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151 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:29: <kmc> zzo38, psyduck
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152 2011-08-31.txt:21:37:37: <ais523> kmc: psyduck isn't an attack...
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153 2011-08-31.txt:21:38:48: <elliott> kmc: I'm not sure provoking a vaguely interesting discussion about trolling counts as good trolling
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154 2011-08-31.txt:22:41:41: <kmc> rm -ri
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155 2011-08-31.txt:22:42:28: <kmc> abs (a,b) = (sqrt (a^2 + b^2), 0)
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156 2011-08-31.txt:22:42:52: <elliott> kmc: heh
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157 2011-08-31.txt:22:46:09: <kmc> haha
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158 2011-08-31.txt:22:46:18: <kmc> dude, we have Data.Dynamic for a reason
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159 2011-08-31.txt:22:46:32: <elliott> kmc: yeah, I used Data.Dynamic, but then I realised that it was wasting a lot of runtime on checks that were always true
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160 2011-08-31.txt:22:46:38: <kmc> yeah
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161 2011-08-31.txt:22:46:48: <elliott> kmc: I swear I'm doing macrooptimisation too!
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162 2011-08-31.txt:22:47:08: <kmc> it's safer because it's less polymorphic
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163 2011-08-31.txt:22:47:22: <kmc> so more mistakes you could make with it are compile-time errors
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164 2011-08-31.txt:22:47:33: <kmc> well, not the direct composition of the two
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165 2011-08-31.txt:22:47:38: <kmc> but using one and then using the other somewhere
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166 2011-08-31.txt:22:48:04: <kmc> yes
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167 2011-08-31.txt:22:48:18: <kmc> S -> Any -> T is no better than S -> T
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168 2011-08-31.txt:23:33:33: <elliott> kmc: copumpkin: mauke: ok, speak up
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169 2011-08-31.txt:23:33:33: <kmc> zzo38 is the #esoteric ambassador to #haskell
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170 2011-08-31.txt:23:37:01: <kmc> we all got to understand the magic: the gathering
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171 2011-08-31.txt:23:37:11: <kmc> @. elite nixon
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172 2011-08-31.txt:23:41:38: <kmc> which version is that?
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173 2011-08-31.txt:23:56:13: <kmc> wow, Feather sounds like it was designed during a salvia trip
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174 2011-08-31.txt:23:56:42: <ais523> kmc: this is part of the reason I don't take mind-altering drugs, this is the sort of thing I come up even when sober and in my apparently right mind
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175 2011-09-01.txt:00:27:39: <kmc> @let schönfinkel = curry
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176 2011-09-01.txt:00:28:03: <kmc> for some reason :t does not like non-ASCII characters
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177 2011-09-01.txt:00:28:43: <elliott> oh kmc said that
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178 2011-09-01.txt:00:29:06: <kmc> > schönfinkel snd 2 3
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179 2011-09-01.txt:00:29:39: <kmc> mmy, currywurst
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180 2011-09-01.txt:00:42:57: <kmc> http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ#How_can_I_get_a_stack_backtrace_when_my_program_throws_an_exception.3F
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181 2011-09-01.txt:00:43:31: <kmc> also http://hackage.haskell.org/package/spoon
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182 2011-09-01.txt:00:43:45: <kmc> i hadn't heard
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183 2011-09-01.txt:00:43:52: <kmc> of GHC?
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184 2011-09-01.txt:00:44:31: <kmc> i like how in Haskell, hard things are easy and easy things are hard
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185 2011-09-01.txt:00:45:06: <elliott> kmc: https://plus.google.com/107890464054636586545/posts/XE4T6hHm3tK
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186 2011-09-01.txt:01:23:33: <kmc> so what's CPO⊥ ?
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187 2011-09-01.txt:01:23:39: <oerjan> kmc: complete partial order
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188 2011-09-01.txt:01:23:46: <kmc> unfortunately Unicode lacks a "subscript ⊥" character
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189 2011-09-01.txt:01:23:54: <kmc> i will write an angry letter to the Committee
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190 2011-09-01.txt:01:24:05: <Gregor> kmc: They'll get it in right after Goat.
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191 2011-09-01.txt:01:24:11: <copumpkin> kmc: read http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/ralf.hinze/SSGIP10/AdjointFolds.pdf
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192 2011-09-01.txt:01:24:31: <copumpkin> kmc: ignore the shitty fraktur :P
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193 2011-09-01.txt:01:24:36: <kmc> cool thanks
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194 2011-09-01.txt:01:24:52: <oerjan> kmc: sorry my putty fonts acting up again (of all possible representations of an unknown character, why does it have to use a _blank space_?)
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195 2011-09-01.txt:01:25:29: <kmc> makes it look more metal
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196 2011-09-01.txt:01:25:58: <kmc> instead of something that Gauss made up one day
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197 2011-09-01.txt:01:26:03: <kmc> like the rest of maths
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198 2011-09-01.txt:01:26:23: <kmc> wow
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199 2011-09-01.txt:02:05:30: <edwardk> elliott: kmc talking about currywurst
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200 2011-09-01.txt:02:06:20: <edwardk> apparently something that kmc likes to eat
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201 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:01: <kmc> it's more like a C++ reinterpret_cast than a C cast
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202 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:10: <kmc> because C's casts can alter bitwise representation too
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203 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:14: <kmc> e.g. casting int to double
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204 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:27: <zzo38> kmc: But it is a pointer cast.
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205 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:34: <kmc> sure you can think of it that way
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206 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:40: <kmc> GHC's unsafeCoerce is always a no-op at runtime
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207 2011-09-01.txt:02:33:54: <kmc> it just tells the typechecker to fuck off in the most unsubtle way possible
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208 2011-09-01.txt:02:34:52: <kmc> wrapping/unwrapping a newtype is also a no-op at runtime
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209 2011-09-01.txt:02:48:22: <kmc> i love that y'all have a bot with unsafeCoerce
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210 2011-09-01.txt:02:48:28: <kmc> i assume it's heavily sandboxed
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211 2011-09-01.txt:02:49:30: <Sgeo> kmc, it's just the same lambdabot that's in #haskell
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212 2011-09-01.txt:02:49:49: <oerjan> kmc: yeah Gregor worked hard on the sandboxing
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213 2011-09-01.txt:02:49:53: <elliott> kmc: It's heavily sandboxed, but HackEgo is more permissive
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214 2011-09-01.txt:02:51:13: <kmc> quotse?
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215 2011-09-01.txt:02:51:36: <kmc> does it respond to PM?
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216 2011-09-01.txt:02:51:50: <kmc> hehe
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217 2011-09-01.txt:02:53:00: <elliott> kmc: mauke: it's based on UMLBox, fwiw: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/overview; previously it was based on the (Debian-specific) plash
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218 2011-09-01.txt:02:53:21: <kmc> cool
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219 2011-09-01.txt:02:53:51: <kmc> `hexdump -C /dev/urandom
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220 2011-09-01.txt:02:53:57: <elliott> kmc: you need `run for multiple arugments
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221 2011-09-01.txt:02:53:59: <kmc> `run hexdump -C /dev/urandom
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222 2011-09-01.txt:02:54:01: <kmc> *nod*
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223 2011-09-01.txt:03:04:30: -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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224 2011-09-01.txt:05:24:03: -!- kmc has joined #esoteric.
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225 2011-09-01.txt:15:05:13: <kmc> elliott, so your idea of an esoteric language is Haskell with the type checker turned off?
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226 2011-09-01.txt:15:06:07: <kmc> but i hate type classes so it's ok
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227 2011-09-01.txt:15:06:16: <kmc> :D
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228 2011-09-01.txt:15:07:44: <elliott> kmc: That's my idea of a fast language
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229 2011-09-01.txt:15:09:58: <kmc> TURBO HASKELL
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230 2011-09-01.txt:15:13:37: <elliott> kmc was presumably referring to my use of unsafeCoerce for optimisation
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231 2011-09-01.txt:15:39:43: <kmc> could be better :O
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232 2011-09-01.txt:15:40:18: <kmc> it's pretty easy to construct pathological cases where (Map Int) beats IntMap
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233 2011-09-01.txt:15:40:37: <kmc> compare also to http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unordered-containers
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234 2011-09-01.txt:15:44:51: <kmc> (Map (Int,Int)) might beat (IntMap . IntMap) due to fewer cache misses, or something
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235 2011-09-01.txt:15:47:47: <kmc> indeed
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236 2011-09-01.txt:22:51:00: <kmc> bacon?
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237 2011-09-01.txt:22:55:35: <oerjan> kmc: no, carrots
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238 2011-09-01.txt:22:57:48: <kmc> carrots: my anti-bacon
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239 2011-09-02.txt:00:19:25: <kmc> patch wget problem solved
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240 2011-09-02.txt:18:04:02: <kmc> void main(int c,char **v){((void(*)(void))v[1])();}
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241 2011-09-02.txt:18:04:16: <elliott> kmc: UB
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242 2011-09-02.txt:18:04:21: <kmc> i know
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243 2011-09-02.txt:18:04:22: <Gregor> kmc: omg u so klevr
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244 2011-09-02.txt:18:04:32: <elliott> kmc: Come back when you have a C program :P
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245 2011-09-02.txt:18:05:19: <kmc> void main(){system("gcc /dev/stdin&&./a.out");}
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246 2011-09-02.txt:18:05:32: <Gregor> kmc: omg u so klevr
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247 2011-09-02.txt:18:06:24: <elliott> kmc: Implementation-defined behaviour :P
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248 2011-09-02.txt:23:53:41: -!- kmc_ has joined #esoteric.
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249 2011-09-02.txt:23:56:22: -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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250 2011-09-03.txt:00:22:10: -!- kmc_ is now known as kmc.
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251 2011-09-03.txt:00:48:13: <kmc> coredump!
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252 2011-09-03.txt:00:48:33: <elliott> kmc: HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT GHC'S REPRESENTATION OF TYPECLASS DICTIONARIES
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253 2011-09-03.txt:00:48:38: <kmc> not much :/
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254 2011-09-03.txt:00:48:55: <kmc> i don't see a $
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255 2011-09-03.txt:00:59:59: <elliott> kmc won't talk. they know what we're doing. they fear us.
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256 2011-09-03.txt:01:00:28: <kmc> i don't actually know anything about ghc's representation of typeclass dictionaries
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257 2011-09-03.txt:01:00:41: <kmc> i just prefer to answer questions with vague relative terms rather than absolutes
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258 2011-09-03.txt:01:00:58: <elliott> kmc: me too, me too.
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259 2011-09-03.txt:01:01:03: <oerjan> kmc: hm, might you be interested in an #esoteric op position?
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260 2011-09-03.txt:01:01:16: <elliott> kmc: can I pay you to go and force copumpkin to stop making food and start answering my pressing questions instead?
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261 2011-09-03.txt:01:29:52: <kmc> oerjan, you can tell because they're speaking icelandic
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262 2011-09-03.txt:01:30:03: <oerjan> kmc: wat
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263 2011-09-03.txt:01:30:30: <olsner> kmc: hurr durr linkur durr gurr
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264 2011-09-03.txt:01:30:45: <kmc> SA did the ironic Ron Paul fanclub already
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265 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:04: <elliott> kmc: so did everyone, last election
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266 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:05: <olsner> ... and kmc stopped?
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267 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:33: <kmc> nobody knows how to learn erlang
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268 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:44: <elliott> ok so kmc and olsner make sense to each other
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269 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:50: <kmc> i watched Erlang: The Movie three times
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270 2011-09-03.txt:01:31:53: <elliott> and kmc makes no sense to oerjan
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271 2011-09-03.txt:01:33:10: <kmc> i gather Erlang is the best language to use if you want to talk to a Swedish person from 1987 on the telephone
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272 2011-09-03.txt:01:45:19: <kmc> what ever came of the tweetable interpreter in C idea
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273 2011-09-03.txt:01:47:35: <kmc> i was wondering if you could do a string rewriting system of some kind
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274 2011-09-03.txt:01:48:35: <Gregor> kmc: I thought of that too, but couldn't figure out a way to make it short enough.
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275 2011-09-03.txt:01:48:56: <elliott> kmc: == strings in C == long
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276 2011-09-03.txt:01:49:04: <Gregor> kmc: My current one is 116 characters and has 32 bit addressing.
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277 2011-09-03.txt:01:49:40: <kmc> size-constrained programming is fun
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278 2011-09-03.txt:01:49:48: <kmc> i enjoyed http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/
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279 2011-09-03.txt:01:51:23: <elliott> kmc: http://golf.shinh.org/ ftw (ok the latest challenges have sucked a bit)
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280 2011-09-03.txt:01:52:12: <Gregor> kmc: int*a,b[9<<20];main(){a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);}
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281 2011-09-03.txt:01:52:15: <Gregor> kmc: Thoughts appreciated :P
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282 2011-09-03.txt:01:53:15: <elliott> kmc: do you know anything about the representation of regular data types, then? :-P
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283 2011-09-03.txt:01:53:37: <kmc> yeah, a data value is a (possibly tagged) pointer to a StgClosure or whatever
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284 2011-09-03.txt:01:53:48: <kmc> which has an info pointer and field values
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285 2011-09-03.txt:01:54:24: <elliott> kmc: what do the info pointers look like :P
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286 2011-09-03.txt:01:54:32: <kmc> some C struct
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287 2011-09-03.txt:01:55:05: <kmc> grab a ghc tarball and look in include/ and rts/
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288 2011-09-03.txt:01:58:35: <kmc> elliott, partial application
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289 2011-09-03.txt:01:58:57: <elliott> kmc: huh.
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290 2011-09-03.txt:01:59:34: <kmc> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Rts/Storage/HeapObjects
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291 2011-09-03.txt:02:00:48: <kmc> dunno how outdated but it does describe what a PAP is
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292 2011-09-03.txt:02:30:45: <kmc> a FRACTRAN interpreter in Haskell could be pretty short
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293 2011-09-03.txt:02:42:58: <kmc> http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ ?
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294 2011-09-03.txt:03:07:48: <kmc> "the amazing power of blocks"
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295 2011-09-03.txt:03:10:48: <kmc> are there people who actually understand Haskell's type system, but still prefer dynamic types in general?
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296 2011-09-03.txt:03:10:56: <kmc> i don't know many such people, but i spend all day talking to fellow Haskell zealots
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297 2011-09-03.txt:03:11:18: <elliott> kmc: the only examples I know involve people whose self-asserted understanding of types I doubt
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298 2011-09-03.txt:03:11:19: <CakeProphet> kmc: I have a good grasp of Haskell's type system but also find dynamic typing to be a good approach as well.
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299 2011-09-03.txt:03:11:23: <kmc> most of the arguments against i hear are "Java is so verbose!" and "dynamic types give me a single ad-hoc variant type!"
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300 2011-09-03.txt:03:11:28: <CakeProphet> kmc: I am a language agnostic. :P
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301 [too many lines; stopping]
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