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1 2005-12-29.txt:00:28:04: <jix> zzo38s server is back => many articles can be updated now?
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2 2007-01-10.txt:20:09:09: <oerjan> nope it's ZZo38's
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3 2008-01-03.txt:03:28:06: <oerjan> hm, Zzo38 is also using continuations in his latest.
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4 2008-01-03.txt:03:46:24: <oerjan> but Zzo38 is incredibly prolific...
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5 2008-02-19.txt:22:06:14: <ehird`> on another note, zzo38 is not very good at designing web apps; http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/mainpage is basically inscrutable
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6 2008-02-19.txt:22:07:04: <ehird`> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/_show_source yikes
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7 2008-02-19.txt:22:09:06: <ehird`> zzo38's ideas are quite odd in general, actually
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8 2008-02-19.txt:22:12:21: <ehird`> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1198908097
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9 2008-02-19.txt:22:13:46: <ehird`> And, well, all of these: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38
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10 2008-02-19.txt:22:14:25: <ais523> wow, I knew zzo38 had made a lot, but didn't realise it was quite that many
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11 2008-02-19.txt:22:46:41: <ehird`> oh my god, zzo's english is atrocious http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/wmskins/Command-Skin.txt
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12 2008-03-18.txt:21:38:28: <AnMaster> "TwoDucks is an esoteric programming language by User:Zzo38 which allows you to go back in time and change things. It is uncomputable on a Turing machine; it even allows you to solve the halting problem."
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13 2008-05-07.txt:20:26:33: <ehird> it's zzo38s
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14 2008-05-07.txt:20:26:48: <ais523> many of zzo38's langs are pretty good, though
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15 2008-06-13.txt:00:23:23: <Slereah> Kudos to zzo38
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16 2008-06-27.txt:23:07:56: * tusho is poking around zzo38's site, he's pretty crazy but it's a fun mishmash of stuff
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17 2008-06-27.txt:23:08:11: <tusho> i'm rather surprised at the list of features on http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/about.htm vs the shortness of http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/_show_source
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18 2008-06-27.txt:23:10:33: <tusho> though - http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/mainpage the actual UI has something to be desired..
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19 2008-06-27.txt:23:15:19: <tusho> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1203755544 i like some of the entries on here
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20 2008-06-27.txt:23:19:10: <tusho> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1199580665 'Our Father who has warts in heaven' how on earth do you hear that
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21 2008-07-01.txt:16:16:34: <tusho> zzo38 asked
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22 2008-07-10.txt:18:15:20: <tusho> zzo38's golfscript answer
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23 2008-07-20.txt:18:02:31: <deveah> zzo38, for example, made a roguelike
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24 2008-07-20.txt:18:04:34: <tusho> zzo38 is ..
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25 2008-08-27.txt:13:22:53: <tusho> and seems to be trolling zzo38 with that
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26 2008-10-08.txt:16:31:02: <ehird> hmm...zzo38 coming to conclusions via flawed premises on his blog... well, that's nothing new
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27 2008-10-08.txt:16:41:20: <oklocod> ehird: hmm...zzo38 coming to conclusions via flawed premises on his blog... well, that's nothing new <<< links.
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28 2008-10-08.txt:16:41:53: <ehird> oklocod: I was talking about http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1216426880, this quote:
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29 2008-11-10.txt:22:06:35: <ehird> lol, i inspired zzo38 to write a browser.
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30 2008-11-10.txt:22:06:55: <ais523> I haven't seen zzo38 around in ages...
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31 2008-11-10.txt:22:08:40: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/
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32 2008-11-10.txt:22:10:25: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1216426880 This is pretty much my favourite post of his.
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33 2008-11-10.txt:22:11:43: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38/1203755544 possibly tops it
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34 2009-01-14.txt:17:09:36: <ehird> wow, zzo38 doesn't get open source
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35 2009-01-14.txt:17:10:25: <ehird> itt: zzo38 is microsoft 2.0
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36 2009-01-14.txt:17:10:50: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/vonkeror/screenshots/screenshot_001.png Impressively ugly.
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37 2009-02-10.txt:21:18:11: <ais523> see zzo38's latest esowiki edit
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38 2009-02-10.txt:21:55:27: <ehird> also, I'd ignore zzo38 most of the time
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39 2009-02-10.txt:21:58:07: <ehird> Although sometimes zzo38 says deep things.
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40 2009-02-10.txt:22:25:12: <ehird> -- zzo38 serious project http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/User:Zzo38/FORTAVM
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41 2009-02-10.txt:22:26:20: <ehird> i saw a post by zzo38 on some forum
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42 2009-02-10.txt:22:34:53: <ehird> --zzo38
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43 2009-02-10.txt:22:37:50: <ehird> zzo38: Advancing the understanding of human knowledge daily.
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44 2009-02-10.txt:22:37:52: <ais523> <zzo38> I can't write very clearly enough to be understood
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45 2009-02-10.txt:22:38:27: <ehird> Theory: zzo38 is actually an AI.
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46 2009-02-10.txt:22:40:26: <oerjan> the forum posts you linked to shows that zzo38 is clearly aware of his problems, and cannot do anything about them.
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47 2009-02-28.txt:01:03:21: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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48 2009-02-28.txt:01:04:58: <zzo38> I read about the new one [[Puzzlang]], but now I invented [[Self-modifying Puzzlang]]. I just want to know if anyone looking at the example can figure it out.
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49 2009-02-28.txt:01:09:36: <zzo38> They don't record everything on the log file. And they aren't "raw" it just says that but it is faked.
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50 2009-02-28.txt:01:13:05: <zzo38> I only see the time and name and message. It doesn't record the commands such as PRIVMSG and NOTICE and the name at the left side, three digit IRC response codes, etc.
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51 2009-02-28.txt:01:14:11: <zzo38> So that is how it records notices, well, don't say it is raw if it isn't because that is a lie
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52 2009-02-28.txt:01:17:29: <zzo38> This is a message with control codes
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53 2009-02-28.txt:01:17:53: <zzo38> It strips out some (but not all) of the control codes
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54 2009-02-28.txt:01:18:59: <zzo38> And special messages using the CTRL+A code are not recorded at all
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55 2009-02-28.txt:01:24:42: <zzo38> IS NOBODY ON HERE PLEASE
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56 2009-02-28.txt:01:25:07: <zzo38> Everyone is on here and responds to CTRL+A commands but no real writing
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57 2009-02-28.txt:01:26:57: -!- zzo38 has parted #esoteric (?).
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58 2009-02-28.txt:01:27:00: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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59 2009-02-28.txt:01:27:09: -!- zzo38 has quit ().
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60 2009-02-28.txt:14:52:12: <ehird> 01:24 zzo38: IS NOBODY ON HERE PLEASE
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61 2009-02-28.txt:14:52:12: <ehird> 01:25 zzo38: Everyone is on here and responds to CTRL+A commands but no real writing
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62 2009-02-28.txt:14:52:20: <ehird> zzo38. in here.
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63 2009-02-28.txt:14:56:32: <ehird> i guess zzo38 thinks people manually respond to ^As
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64 2009-02-28.txt:18:59:33: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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65 2009-02-28.txt:19:01:51: <zzo38> I want some feedback about what opinion you have about [[CLCLC-INTERCAL]] so far. I will add more suggestion even to the page.
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66 2009-02-28.txt:19:02:06: <AnMaster> zzo38, CLCLC?
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67 2009-02-28.txt:19:02:08: <ais523> zzo38: it would be more interesting with an implementation
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68 2009-02-28.txt:19:02:39: <zzo38> How would I make a implementation? In JavaScript?
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69 2009-02-28.txt:19:02:49: <ais523> zzo38: INTERCAL is traditionally hard to implement
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70 2009-02-28.txt:19:02:51: <ehird> zzo38: by writing an implementation?
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71 2009-02-28.txt:19:04:25: <zzo38> I could try modifying CLC-INTERCAL if I have Perl. I will try that soon enough I guess.
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72 2009-02-28.txt:19:05:23: <zzo38> Another thing is now gopher can use client-brainfuck. So there is a use for esolangs. The only thing is if it could be made faster
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73 2009-02-28.txt:19:05:49: <ais523> zzo38: is that really what non-esolangers would consider a use for esolangs, though?
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74 2009-02-28.txt:19:06:13: <ehird> 19:05 zzo38: Another thing is now gopher can use client-brainfuck. So there is a use for esolangs. The only thing is if it could be made faster
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75 2009-02-28.txt:19:08:01: <zzo38> I made a hangman game on gopher client-script gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net/@Bgames/hangman/ but you need a compatible client. So far the only one is http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/vonkeror/ and the source-code for the hangman game is at [[BrainClub]]
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76 2009-02-28.txt:19:08:31: <zzo38> Which person was BF his first language?
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77 2009-02-28.txt:19:08:55: <ehird> zzo38: random person I know
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78 2009-02-28.txt:19:09:55: <zzo38> Vonkeror is a web-browser I wrote but it includes gopher support as well, better than other web-browser's gopher supporting. I used brainfuck instead of JavaScript as the gopher client-script because JavaScript is too complex for a simple protocol such as gopher
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79 2009-02-28.txt:19:10:10: <ehird> zzo38: based on conkeror I assume
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80 2009-02-28.txt:19:10:17: <ais523> ehird: zzo38 added a generalised operator that can do OR, XOR, and AND, amongst other things
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81 2009-02-28.txt:19:11:03: <zzo38> Yes, I added the "cellular automaton" operator (not implemented yet). I have to write how the cellular automaton numbers are specified, which will be different than normal cellular automaton numbers (because, it is INTERCAL)
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82 2009-02-28.txt:19:13:25: <zzo38> I don't think we are violating any trademark for Conkeror anyways, the Conkeror people did not complain about trade-mark violation and anyways they are planning to change the name of Conkeror anyways so when that happens the name will not be similar
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83 2009-02-28.txt:19:14:16: <AnMaster> <zzo38> Vonkeror is a web-browser I wrote but it includes gopher support as well, better than other web-browser's gopher supporting. I used brainfuck instead of JavaScript as the gopher client-script because JavaScript is too complex for a simple protocol such as gopher <-- better than lynx gopher support?
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84 2009-02-28.txt:19:15:34: <zzo38> As far as I know in Lynx (the last time I have tried anyways) it sometimes doesn't use proper line-breaks on gopher menus. And I don't really know for sure, but Vonkeror has better gopher support than *most* web-browsers anyways, including some extra features, but some features are untested and I'm not sure if they work perfectly yet
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85 2009-02-28.txt:19:17:13: <ehird> zzo38: does it work on non-windows?
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86 2009-02-28.txt:19:18:02: <zzo38> Yes, Vonkeror works on all operating systems that XUL runner will work on. It's just that some things in Vonkeror work on Windows that didn't work in Windows in Conkeror, but it still works on UNIX as wel
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87 2009-02-28.txt:19:19:33: <zzo38> No, it works good on Windows and UNIX. But Conkeror has some features not working on Windows. In Vonkeror, these features work on Windows too, in addition to still working on UNIX.
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88 2009-02-28.txt:19:20:50: <zzo38> Then create a new directory. You should always list an archive first before extracting it, that's what I always do.
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89 2009-02-28.txt:19:21:04: <AnMaster> zzo38, still bad style
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90 2009-02-28.txt:19:21:19: <ehird> zzo38: I've been meaning to write a script that does that, then unwraps the directories one level if it makes its own directory
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91 2009-02-28.txt:19:22:11: <zzo38> OK. So if I ever create a tar (or tar.gz or tar.bz2) archive, I will remember to make its own directory in the archive
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92 2009-02-28.txt:19:23:09: <ehird> zzo38: ok, going to try vonkeror
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93 2009-02-28.txt:19:24:41: <ehird> zzo38: where is vonkeror.api?
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94 2009-02-28.txt:19:25:13: <zzo38> What does vonkeror.api means? I don't think there is a file like that.
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95 2009-02-28.txt:19:25:34: <zzo38> O. You mean .xpi. There is no .xpi you have to install it manually
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96 2009-02-28.txt:19:27:10: <ais523> zzo38: what object hierarchy does your BF-gopher thing use?
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97 2009-02-28.txt:19:27:50: <ehird> zzo38: here's how you "compile" vonkeror:
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98 2009-02-28.txt:19:28:08: <zzo38> The files for the BF-gopher are: /content/conkeror.css /content/client-brainfuck.css /modules/brainfuck.js /modules/gopher.js
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99 2009-02-28.txt:19:28:52: <ehird> zzo38: OK, Vonkeror works
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100 2009-02-28.txt:19:29:31: <zzo38> That's the tab-bar which is green. The active tab is green and non-active tabs are gray. If you don't like it, modify content/conkeror.css
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101 2009-02-28.txt:19:29:38: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/vonkeror/screenshots/screenshot_001.png
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102 2009-02-28.txt:19:30:58: <ehird> zzo38: I'll try gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net/@Bgames/hangman/ now
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103 2009-02-28.txt:19:31:31: <oklopol> hi zzo38!
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104 2009-02-28.txt:19:33:15: <zzo38> Yes. You just have to include the protocol in the URL. For example, type C-l and then start typing over the highlighted text, such as http://esolangs.org/
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105 2009-02-28.txt:19:33:44: <ehird> zzo38: oh okay
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106 2009-02-28.txt:19:34:59: <ehird> zzo38: I like how gopher looks like an old terminal
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107 2009-02-28.txt:19:36:12: <zzo38> One of the design rules of Vonkeror is NO ICONS. So if you access a gopher menu (just try any one) you will not see icons but rather the type code, and they are color coded also
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108 2009-02-28.txt:19:37:56: <ehird> "Compiler version: FreeBASIC v0.20.0b" -- gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0aboutgophserv
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109 2009-02-28.txt:19:38:22: <zzo38> I doubt it will get media coverage. But if there is it might be like that. Maybe I will add that quote to my FORTUNE file in case anyone looks
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110 2009-02-28.txt:19:38:51: <ehird> it's zzo38's
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111 2009-02-28.txt:19:39:37: <zzo38> Yes, I wrote GOPHSERV in FreeBASIC. (The other HTTP+gopher server in FreeBASIC is Grumpy but mine doesn't share the code. Anyways mine supported gopher first)
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112 2009-02-28.txt:19:40:09: <ehird> zzo38: I like how you can click on a download to copy the URL, did you add that or conkeror?
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113 2009-02-28.txt:19:40:17: <ehird> ais523: gophserv source --> gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/5gophserv/gophserv.zip
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114 2009-02-28.txt:19:41:07: <ehird> zzo38: it's only 177 lines?
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115 2009-02-28.txt:19:41:14: <zzo38> That copy URL function was there before Vonkeror
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116 2009-02-28.txt:19:41:48: <ehird> that was from zzo38's site
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117 2009-02-28.txt:19:42:06: <ehird> zzo38: is there any example for go5?
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118 2009-02-28.txt:19:42:48: <zzo38> There's the URL: handler, in the same directory as GOPHSERV on my gopher site.
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119 2009-02-28.txt:19:44:49: <zzo38> I use both HTTP and Gopher, and so do other people who like Gopher protocol. But Gopher is still used much more rarely than HTTP
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120 2009-02-28.txt:19:45:14: <ehird> zzo38: you should invent a way to make a site over the "finger" protocol
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121 2009-02-28.txt:19:46:03: <zzo38> The "finger" protocol is close enough to gopher that you can make a site over the finger protocol, just make sure to use the URL gopher://host:port/0selector (remember the zero and it will work with finger too!)
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122 2009-02-28.txt:19:46:58: <zzo38> Yes. The Mozilla built-in gopher doesn't support that because it always uses port 70, but Vonkeror accepts any port so you can do that. Just set the port number to 79 and it will work
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123 2009-02-28.txt:19:47:37: <Sgeo> It's zzo38!
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124 2009-02-28.txt:19:49:51: <zzo38> Use GOPHSERV to serve even finger if you don't need some of the features specific to finger
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125 2009-02-28.txt:19:50:04: <ehird> zzo38: where is the gopher hangman source?
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126 2009-02-28.txt:19:50:57: <zzo38> The gopher hangman was written in BrainClub and you will find the code on the wiki. To view any gopher resource as plain-text in Vonkeror (to view the compiled code), push M-0 (this works only for gopher. For HTTP, use C-u instead)
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127 2009-02-28.txt:19:52:02: <AnMaster> zzo38, what about a wiki over gopher?
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128 2009-02-28.txt:19:53:05: <ehird> zzo38: so you just give back brainclub and it interprets it?
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129 2009-02-28.txt:19:53:36: <zzo38> I guess you could use +ASK forms to send data. Another idea I have (which I will implement one day) is an item code that causes it to retrieve text (as code 0) but allow editing, and then after editing, send the modified contents back to the server. Of course any fields would have to be included in the text instead of other form fields, it could be done like MIME headers on e-mail, or in other ways
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130 2009-02-28.txt:19:54:13: <AnMaster> zzo38, hm yes the +ASK ones could work.. but isn't the length limit rather short?
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131 2009-02-28.txt:19:54:18: <zzo38> Vonkeror interprets client-brainfuck. I compiled the brainclub file using the compiler (that is on the esolang wiki also, it also requires xulrunner)
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132 2009-02-28.txt:19:54:46: <ehird> zzo38: is it possible to make a to-brainclub compiler in the language?
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133 2009-02-28.txt:19:55:04: <zzo38> I think there is a type for a multi-line field. Vonkeror allows you to change the number of lines that will be displayed for a multi-line field in a gopher +ASK form (by default 8, but you can make it whatever you want)
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134 2009-02-28.txt:19:55:16: <AnMaster> zzo38, hm ok..
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135 2009-02-28.txt:19:56:23: <zzo38> You wouldn't really compile into brainclub, you would compile *from* brainclub *into* brainfuck. Because Vonkeror doesn't compile or interpreter brainclub, it just optimizes and converts brainfuck into JavaScript (using the "yield" command for input)
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136 2009-02-28.txt:19:56:24: <AnMaster> zzo38, wait +ASK needs Gopher+ right?
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137 2009-02-28.txt:19:56:59: <zzo38> Yes, +ASK needs Gopher+. Vonkeror partially supports Gopher+ (but I'm not sure whether or not it is implemented correctly, but I do know that non plus gopher works perfectly OK)
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138 2009-02-28.txt:19:57:44: <zzo38> You could try to make brainclub->client-brainfuck in brainclub if you wanted to, I guess, you just need a EOF marker
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139 2009-02-28.txt:19:59:26: <ehird> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/brainclub/brainclub.js
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140 2009-02-28.txt:19:59:32: <ehird> and http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/brainclub/core.bcl
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141 2009-02-28.txt:19:59:54: <zzo38> There are no specs, just the JavaScript code to compile it
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142 2009-02-28.txt:20:03:25: <ehird> zzo38: What are the commands new in client brainfuck to brainfuck?
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143 2009-02-28.txt:20:04:20: <zzo38> Only two commands * to switch tapes and ~ to switch pointers.
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144 2009-02-28.txt:20:05:21: <zzo38> Yes, two tapes, so you don't have to add all sorts of data to the tape in order to measure where you would go back to, you just have two tapes so you don't need to do that.
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145 2009-02-28.txt:20:06:29: <ehird> zzo38: Then client unlambda wouldnt' require anything new as it already works fine with things like that
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146 2009-02-28.txt:20:08:41: <zzo38> I used client brainfuck instead of client unlambda because someone who wants to write a gopher client that supports it can write it more quickly and easily than an unlambda interpreter, brainfuck interpreters are much easier and quicker to write
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147 2009-02-28.txt:20:09:08: <zzo38> But if you want to implement client unlambda, feel free to do such a things anyways
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148 2009-02-28.txt:20:09:50: <ehird> zzo38: isn't it just connecting the terminal to a web buffer?
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149 2009-02-28.txt:20:15:48: -!- zzo38 has quit ("I'm doing something else now, I will continue to look at the log in case I missed something").
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150 2009-02-28.txt:21:39:19: <oerjan> just summing up Zzo38's research here
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151 2009-02-28.txt:23:37:39: <oerjan> i am not sure whether zzo38's abbreviation "S-m Puzzlang" is well thought or not
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152 2009-02-28.txt:23:39:42: <oerjan> i thought zzo38 could be explained in the same way, really
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153 2009-03-03.txt:18:38:09: <ais523> and suddenly realises that the discussion there is between Dagoth and zzo38
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154 2009-03-04.txt:16:30:19: <ehird> # (diff) (hist) . . Esolang:Community Portal‎; 19:18 . . (+9) . . Zzo38 (Talk | contribs) (tunes.org logs are now listed in descending order of date)
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155 2009-03-06.txt:05:05:21: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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156 2009-03-06.txt:05:06:32: <zzo38> -1 interleave 0 makes -2/3 is that correct
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157 2009-03-06.txt:05:08:21: <zzo38> I made a unlambda compiler into JavaScript http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda/htm but probably some thing are missing, such as continuations called from the outside?
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158 2009-03-06.txt:05:09:36: <zzo38> Yes I know that, but I'm wondering how that is supposed to be implemented.
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159 2009-03-06.txt:05:10:13: <zzo38> You look at the source-codes and see what you think about that! I tried to make it compatible with many JavaScript interpreters, instead of only modern versions of Mozilla or such thing as that
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160 2009-03-06.txt:05:13:36: <zzo38> Please tell me if you found anything else missing in the Unlambda compiler into JavaScript
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161 2009-03-06.txt:05:14:12: <zzo38> Oops the URL is wrong it is supposed to be http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm
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162 2009-03-06.txt:05:29:02: <zzo38> Oops the URL is wrong it is supposed to be http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm
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163 2009-03-06.txt:05:29:58: <zzo38> Which you like better Forth or Lisp?
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164 2009-03-06.txt:05:31:35: <zzo38> How can I make a continuation called from the outside to be compiled into a Javascript codes
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165 2009-03-06.txt:05:31:46: <zzo38> What is the best way
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166 2009-03-06.txt:05:37:53: -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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167 2009-03-06.txt:14:27:15: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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168 2009-03-06.txt:14:29:46: <zzo38> One day I went to school but their oscilloscopes was broken so I haven't use a oscilloscopes. And I don't own one
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169 2009-03-06.txt:14:30:45: <zzo38> Can you bit interleave negative and positive numbers together? It seems to me I could do -1 interleave 0 makes -2/3 but I'm unsure
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170 2009-03-06.txt:14:32:08: <zzo38> And if you have so many pictures on /~fis/ to list then why don't you enable directory listing, or at least make a list manually
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171 2009-03-06.txt:14:35:10: <zzo38> You could alo make subdirectories for multiple listing of images, for category or just by timing or whatever you want, I do that on my computer at /IMAGES/ /IMAGES2/ /IMAGES3/ /img4/ /img5/ /img6/ /img7/ /img8/ /img_09/ /img_0A/ /img_0B/ /img_0C/ /img_0D/
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172 2009-03-06.txt:14:37:21: <zzo38> OK
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173 2009-03-06.txt:14:41:00: <zzo38> O, and I am interested your opinion of the program I wrote compiling Unlambda to JavaScript.
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174 2009-03-06.txt:14:42:34: <ehird> zzo38: does it handle d?
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175 2009-03-06.txt:14:43:59: <zzo38> Yes it handles d, look at http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm
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176 2009-03-06.txt:14:44:16: <zzo38> And view the source-code of that HTML page to see the JavaScript codes
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177 2009-03-06.txt:14:44:30: <zzo38> Is there anything missing from my handling of d?
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178 2009-03-06.txt:14:46:13: <zzo38> I haven't implemented c entirely yet. I'm still trying to think how to do that. If you have any suggestion please type it on here
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179 2009-03-06.txt:14:49:00: <zzo38> So far if you try to run a program that uses continuations you will just see a alert box that says "[object Object]" in it. That is the continuation object being thrown with nothing to catch it
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180 2009-03-06.txt:14:49:08: <oerjan> zzo38: if javascript doesn't have real continuations then you probably are not going to get around rewriting everything in cps style
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181 2009-03-06.txt:14:51:00: <zzo38> Another idea I had is if the thrown continuation object is not caught by the c function it should try the program over again but keep track of which c function that continuation is for so it can return something else next time
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182 2009-03-06.txt:14:52:46: <zzo38> I'm not sure how well my idea would work, though.
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183 2009-03-06.txt:14:53:07: <zzo38> I'm trying to think if there is a better way to throw back
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184 2009-03-06.txt:14:55:05: <zzo38> Where can I find your Scheme-in-Prolog
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185 2009-03-06.txt:14:56:01: <oerjan> zzo38: that idea sounds evil, so it would be awesome _if_ it worked, but i think you could get trouble if there were may throws and catches to rerun before you got to the right point.
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186 2009-03-06.txt:14:57:04: <zzo38> That's what I was worried about
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187 2009-03-06.txt:15:04:06: <ehird> zzo38: You cannot use exceptions for continuations.
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188 2009-03-06.txt:15:05:21: <zzo38> I know that, that is why I was wondering how to do continuations the other way, because currently it works only one way and many Unlambda programs use it the other way also
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189 2009-03-06.txt:15:08:21: <ehird> zzo38: the only other way is CPS, for JS
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190 2009-03-06.txt:15:23:44: <zzo38> Do the people on here have any preferences about Lisp or Forth
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191 2009-03-06.txt:15:23:53: <ehird> zzo38: I like both.
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192 2009-03-06.txt:15:26:54: <zzo38> I just use yield command in JavaScript to represent the input command in brainfuck. But the yield command is a new version of JavaScript only on Mozilla but that's OK because it is built-in to a XULrunner applocation. From this, you can learn how to write your own brainfuck compiler
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193 2009-03-06.txt:15:28:39: -!- zzo38 has quit ().
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194 2009-03-06.txt:15:29:33: <ehird> it's zzo38, don't question him :D
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195 2009-03-06.txt:17:16:14: <ehird> zzo38 asked me about forth for some reason, not triggered by me
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196 2009-03-06.txt:20:43:16: <oerjan> well unlambda was mentioned today, zzo38 is writing an interpreter
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197 2009-03-08.txt:07:21:29: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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198 2009-03-08.txt:07:21:34: <Sgeo> Hi zzo38
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199 2009-03-08.txt:07:22:55: <zzo38> The idea of akiross, it seems some versions of INTERCAL allow you to change syntax during runtime so that's one possible way....
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200 2009-03-08.txt:07:24:59: <zzo38> Also, another thing to add to something like INTERCAL with interleave operator, but allows any length of bits (even infinite), you could do things like zero interleave negative one makes one third, etc.
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201 2009-03-08.txt:07:25:40: <zzo38> And which INTERCAL is the shortest Hello world output program, maybe CLCLC-INTERCAL. It is: PLEASE ;1 <- #2
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202 2009-03-08.txt:07:25:49: <zzo38> DO ;1 SUB #1 <- #17947$#20775
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203 2009-03-08.txt:07:26:02: <zzo38> DO ;1 SUB #2 <- #5204$#21386 DO READ OUT ;1
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204 2009-03-08.txt:07:27:32: <zzo38> No, not calculator writing. It is Baudot, encoding 6 Baudot characters in each cell of the array
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205 2009-03-08.txt:07:28:00: <zzo38> Another esolang idea is one with mahjong tiles?
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206 2009-03-08.txt:07:30:05: <zzo38> Do you have another idea of CLCLC-INTERCAL
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207 2009-03-08.txt:07:32:31: <zzo38> In your opinion, does 1 + 2 pow 2 + 2 pow 4 + 2 pow 6 + 2 pow 8 and so on make -1/3 in my opinion it does because in binary it is .......010101010101. and if you multiply it by three you get negative one, so therefore it is correct. Or you think the result is infinite? I would like to know your opinion
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208 2009-03-08.txt:07:34:55: <zzo38> Do you like to use FOWER instead of FOUR, or FIFE instead of FIVE
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209 2009-03-08.txt:07:36:26: <zzo38> It is "I" isn't it? Or is there a vowel missing
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210 2009-03-08.txt:07:38:13: <zzo38> What does 2-adically means exactly I never learned 2-adically math. But I did see it mentioned in the book ROAD TO REALITY and all it says is the numbers are allowed to be infinite on the left instead of on the right. The rest I just did myself and don't know about proper 2-adically and whether mine is proper
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211 2009-03-08.txt:07:39:15: <zzo38> And I think the sound is "I" sound like FIVE but possibly slightly different because of the following consonant but that is what I heard anyways is the standard for air traffic control, although nobody uses it and nobody cares
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212 2009-03-08.txt:07:45:09: <zzo38> O, and do esolang people have any preferences having to do with mahjong game
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213 2009-03-08.txt:07:50:09: <zzo38> Yes
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214 2009-03-08.txt:07:50:51: <asiekierk> zzo38, were you replying to me
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215 2009-03-08.txt:07:51:15: <zzo38> Yes I am replying to you asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl
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216 2009-03-08.txt:07:52:43: <zzo38> Yes I did but I am writing software and specifications more a bit, and then one day I need to get a computer hardware and stuff, and then I can write the software more, testing it, make a company, and a few more things, make manual, etc, and then it will be complete.
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217 2009-03-08.txt:07:53:25: <zzo38> O sorry I missed that the message was private but now I notice it.
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218 2009-03-08.txt:07:59:32: -!- zzo38 has quit ("Thanks I sleep now. But I will continue to read the log if you want to reply to my question(s)/etc").
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219 2009-03-08.txt:16:35:49: <ehird> 23:32:31 <zzo38> In your opinion, does 1 + 2 pow 2 + 2 pow 4 + 2 pow 6 + 2 pow 8 and so on make -1/3 in my opinion it does because in binary it is .......010101010101. and if you multiply it by three you get negative one, so therefore it is correct. Or you think the result is infinite? I would like to know your opinion
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220 2009-03-08.txt:16:35:50: <ehird> 23:34:55 <zzo38> Do you like to use FOWER instead of FOUR, or FIFE instead of FIVE
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221 2009-03-08.txt:16:36:01: <ehird> who needs acid when you have quick-fire zzo38 questions
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222 2009-03-08.txt:16:37:05: <ehird> 23:45:09 <zzo38> O, and do esolang people have any preferences having to do with mahjong game
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223 2009-03-08.txt:16:37:05: <ehird> 23:50:09 <zzo38> Yes
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224 2009-03-08.txt:16:37:18: <ehird> <zzo38> Yes I am replying to you asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl <- :D
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225 2009-03-13.txt:23:46:13: <ais523> someone show http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/03/how-moores-law-saved-the-web.html to zzo38
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226 2009-03-14.txt:00:27:37: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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227 2009-03-14.txt:00:27:46: <ehird> oh, hi zzo38
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228 2009-03-14.txt:00:28:02: <ais523> zzo38: http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/03/how-moores-law-saved-the-web.html
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229 2009-03-14.txt:00:29:20: <zzo38> The #anagol channel doesn't help. How to put FlogScript on anarchy golf site? Can someone send a message, but I don't use e-mail and am unsure. Still, I do it anyways on the wiki entry for FlogScript but if it is directly on there, it can be together listed with the others!
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230 2009-03-14.txt:00:29:27: <ehird> zzo38: You cannot.
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231 2009-03-14.txt:00:30:05: <zzo38> shinh was on but I received no reply
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232 2009-03-14.txt:00:30:40: <zzo38> And the tunes.org log seems to be not working right now
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233 2009-03-14.txt:00:31:32: <zzo38> The log works now
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234 2009-03-14.txt:00:32:40: <zzo38> Maybe my DNS is mixed up and doesn't always work. I am unsure
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235 2009-03-14.txt:00:34:07: <zzo38> What link for description of language you invented earlier today
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236 2009-03-14.txt:00:39:01: <ehird> Anyway, I think it's easy to understand from that, does that make sense zzo38?
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237 2009-03-14.txt:00:39:14: <zzo38> Yes it make sense. OK
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238 2009-03-14.txt:00:47:28: -!- zzo38 has quit ().
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239 2009-03-16.txt:15:20:40: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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240 2009-03-16.txt:15:21:05: <zzo38> Nobody is ever actively on #anagol even though some names are listed
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241 2009-03-16.txt:15:21:12: <zzo38> Why is that?
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242 2009-03-16.txt:15:23:43: <zzo38> I tried whois shinh and stuff like that but I'm not sure if that means they are away or not
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243 2009-03-16.txt:15:27:41: <zzo38> I tried various names with whois command but I can't see anything about away, is there some code for being away that I forgot about?
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244 2009-03-16.txt:15:29:52: <zzo38> I can only get idle time for whois on myself. And if it shows up when they are away, which line does it show up on, the 311 line or the 320 line or some other line?
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245 2009-03-16.txt:15:30:12: <zzo38> What does "/wii" means
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246 2009-03-16.txt:15:31:05: <zzo38> O, thanks I did "whois shinh shinh" and I got the idle time for shinh (214878 seconds)
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247 2009-03-16.txt:15:31:56: <zzo38> Well yes, the IRC server returns it in seconds I did the calculation it is approx 59.7 hours
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248 2009-03-16.txt:15:33:37: <zzo38> Thanks for telling me I need to indicate the name twice if I want the 317 line (although I'm not sure why the server shouldn't figure that out automatically?)
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249 2009-03-16.txt:15:34:09: <ehird> zzo38: IRC is weird
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250 2009-03-16.txt:15:34:59: <zzo38> ehird: OK. However I can get the 317 line for myself without needing to type my name twice.
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251 2009-03-16.txt:15:35:57: <zzo38> O. So does it do that to save bandwidth from accessing other servers when it doesn't have to?
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252 2009-03-16.txt:15:37:22: -!- zzo38 has parted #esoteric (?).
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253 2009-03-16.txt:15:38:08: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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255 2009-03-16.txt:15:38:15: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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256 2009-03-16.txt:15:38:17: -!- zzo38 has parted #esoteric (?).
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257 2009-03-16.txt:15:39:28: <AnMaster> <ehird> zzo38: IRC is weird <-- I know the details about why name twice if you are interested
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258 2009-03-20.txt:23:05:09: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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259 2009-03-20.txt:23:05:52: <zzo38> I wrote a program in CLCLC-INTERCAL to output 1 to 2000 in Roman numbers but I can't test it. Can you look and tell me if you found a mistake, or another comment about this program
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260 2009-03-20.txt:23:06:09: <ais523> zzo38: would it run in CLC-INTERCAL?
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261 2009-03-20.txt:23:06:59: <zzo38> It uses CLCLC-INTERCAL specific features
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262 2009-03-20.txt:23:09:06: <zzo38> My program has no addition. The way [I think] it works is based on the && operator and also how CLCLC-INTERCAL assigns to expressions (which may not be always the same as other INTERCALs)
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263 2009-03-20.txt:23:10:37: <zzo38> Is there still something else you do not understand about it
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264 2009-03-20.txt:23:12:11: <zzo38> No, the && operator doesn't do addition. The && operator allows you to learn a lecture inside of a expression.
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265 2009-03-20.txt:23:13:11: <zzo38> It doesn't. The interpreter would try each value of .1 (the left side of the lecture) in order, and stop when the value of .1 causes .1&� to have the value #2000
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266 2009-03-20.txt:23:13:39: <zzo38> It starts at zero but it won't output zero because it is abstained the first time
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267 2009-03-20.txt:23:14:44: <zzo38> Maybe not in CLC-INTERCAL but in CLCLC-INTERCAL it is specified that this kind of behaviour is standard
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268 2009-03-20.txt:23:16:19: <zzo38> For expressions that have inverses that will work (as long as they are not overloaded to other expressions) but the && operator doesn't have a inverse so it has to try each one until one of them works
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269 2009-03-20.txt:23:16:57: <zzo38> Also note that in CLCLC-INTERCAL, when assigning to a expression only the far left side of the expression is the register which will be changed (even if it is a constant!)
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270 2009-03-20.txt:23:18:00: <zzo38> In CLCLC-INTERCAL .2 has to have the correct value already if it doesn't then it is a fatal error
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271 2009-03-20.txt:23:18:34: <zzo38> It's INTERCAL, so who cares about compatibility with other INTERCAL implementations?
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272 2009-03-20.txt:23:19:23: <zzo38> Then just use compatibility mode if you want to be compatible
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273 2009-03-20.txt:23:27:44: <zzo38> The output 1 to 2000 program was wrong but now I fixed it. The third line now says DO .1&&.1 <- #2000 it used to say DO .1&� <- #2000 but that was wrong
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274 2009-03-20.txt:23:27:49: <ais523> apparently zzo38's mandating that in CLC-INTERCAL, the way it reverses an operation is to try all possibilities until one works
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275 2009-03-20.txt:23:28:32: <zzo38> ais523: s/CLC-INTERCAL/CLCLC-INTERCAL/
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276 2009-03-20.txt:23:34:41: <zzo38> It doesn't backtrack any side-effects of the expression (such as attending a lecture or overloading) so you can do anything inside the lecture and it won't care. A fatal error is still a fatal error (or maybe it can be defined a different way instead, that a fatal error in this case backtracks?)
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277 2009-03-20.txt:23:34:55: <ais523> zzo38: what if there's a choicepoint inside the lecture?
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278 2009-03-20.txt:23:36:42: <zzo38> If someone backtracks into a choicepoint inside the lecture then it will backtrack the implicit loop also and continue trying different values for .1 where it left off. And in a multithreaded program it will only deal with the current thread, values in other threads are unaffected and there is no guarantee what order it will output in
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279 2009-03-20.txt:23:36:55: <oklofok> am i misunderstanding something here, why are you asking zzo38 how things work, isn't there a spec?
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280 2009-03-20.txt:23:40:53: <oklofok> was zzo38's idea that the function to be reversed had the side-effect of always writing out the current number being tried?
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281 2009-03-20.txt:23:41:36: <ais523> zzo38: I was referring to timing issues between the threads
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282 2009-03-20.txt:23:41:52: <zzo38> O, I forgot one thing about what it should do if the student is an array. And I'm not sure what it should do in that case.
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283 2009-03-20.txt:23:42:54: <zzo38> Maybe you can in prolog but I don't know much about prolog
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284 2009-03-20.txt:23:43:49: <ais523> zzo38: in Prolog, integers are special-cased for sanity
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285 2009-03-20.txt:23:44:13: <zzo38> I have a question that you can help me define the spec of CLCLC-INTERCAL: What should it do if you assign to a && expression where the student is an array
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286 2009-03-20.txt:23:53:34: -!- zzo38 has quit ("because ais523 quit").
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287 2009-03-21.txt:18:10:26: <ehird> 15:53:34 --- quit: zzo38 ("because ais523 quit")
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288 2009-03-21.txt:19:50:23: -!- zzo38 has joined #esoteric.
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289 2009-03-21.txt:19:51:19: <zzo38> Look at the CLCLC-INTERCAL page again, I defined quantum INTERCAL and cellular automata operator. Do you like this???
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290 2009-03-21.txt:19:52:12: <zzo38> Comment more on it, either on the talk page or on IRC, I will quit now but will read the logs and talk page when I get back
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291 2009-03-21.txt:19:52:15: -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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293 2009-03-21.txt:23:43:23: <zzo38> Do you know any example of any program using quantum computing algorithm? And I mean the real one, not the one that CLC-INTERCAL uses
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294 2009-03-21.txt:23:44:53: <AnMaster> zzo38, well since there are no useful quantum computers yet I guess it is all highly theoretical still. Sure there have been some successful experiments with a few qbits (8 or something iirc?)
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295 2009-03-21.txt:23:46:22: <zzo38> There are also quantum emulators on normal computers, they can't deal with very many qubits at once and it isn't as fast as real quantum computers. I want to know because I just defined quantum computing commands in CLCLC-INTERCAL today and I want to know how to write a program with the commands I defined
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296 2009-03-21.txt:23:47:08: <zzo38> I have seen the quantum brainfuck on the wiki but the link to the file doesn't work
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297 2009-03-21.txt:23:47:33: <zzo38> I would also like to see a example of a program written in quantum brainfuck if there are any.
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298 2009-03-21.txt:23:49:03: <zzo38> The command DO QUANTUM |1_|2 TRANSFORM |2_|1 is valid, but I'm not sure what it would do.
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299 2009-03-21.txt:23:49:36: <zzo38> I don't understand quantum computing enough to understand it. I know a few things about quantum computing and quantum physics (I even have a book) but I don't know how a program would be written.
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300 2009-03-21.txt:23:50:04: <ehird> zzo38: Look up that factoring algorithm for it?
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301 [too many lines; stopping]
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